Gene: 0:14

Hey guys. As I mentioned on the previous podcast today, I'm going to be doing an interview with a Zoomer. His name is Zach and he's actually the son of one of my oldest friends. And so there are a few moments where he talks about his dad and I talk about stuff that I remember doing with his dad.

0:36

So I wanted to give you the context before you listened to it. I wanted to do this interview. Because I wanted to have somebody that was comfortable enough with the interviewer me. To not try and present a particular persona. But just to talk from the heart. But also somebody that I really wasn't friends with, then I only know passively and Zach fit that perfectly. I've, I've probably. Talk to him a dozen times, but that's a dozen times over 20 years. So less than once a year. And I certainly know his dad a lot better than I know him. But I thought he would be a very good representative. Of the Zoomer age bracket at 20 years old, which is what he is right now. And in college. It is typically the age where a lot of individuality and Personalities really become strong. He is his own man. That's for sure. And he has very strong opinions. Some of them. Poor opinions. Certainly my opinion, but nonetheless, he has a lot of A lot of strong beliefs in Y. His opinions actually. Correct. Now, if you have the time to listen to the entire podcast, the, the full conversation spans about three hours a little over three hours. In fact by the end, you will see that he is really kind of. Not trying to make any points, but we're talking about just things that are fun. Like guns shooting, gun shooting, paintball guns. Topics that. Clearly indicate to him to not quite be as liberal as he initially. Comes across at the beginning of the interview, he talks quite a bit about Q and I have to say, I tend to agree with him on cue. I've done that in previous podcasts, I've talked about how Q is actually damaged the conservative movement. How it's, it's been something that has resulted in fewer, not more. People getting elected into office. On our side of the equation here. But I also talked to him about how really I used to be the liberal guy in the room. And I haven't moved anywhere. I've always been a libertarian. I've never cared what people do in their bedrooms. And frankly, what kind of drugs they do in their bedrooms. But because the left has moved so far to the left. They seem to have pushed me. Into the quote far, right? Borderline fascist mentality. Now I know that my opinions have been the same for 40 years. Really. And that I haven't been pushed in any direction. It's just that. The left has moved extremely far. Into socialism into really the ideals of Marxism. And because they have done that. It is shifted where everybody else has perceived. As a college student, I certainly expect Zach to have a lot more liberal opinions than I would somebody that is closer to my age. I think comparatively speaking people that were in their fifties, When they heard me talking about subjects when I was in college would have said the exact same thing. Although I've always considered myself a capitalist and the libertarian. And never a socialist progressive or lefty. But nonetheless, compared to the more traditional Republican friends that I had, I'm sure I would have been labeled as a hippie socialist. I figured this is a good time. For you guys to sit back. Listen to what a Zoomer has to say. About a variety of topics and we talk about everything. From a politics, life, drugs, sexuality. And fun pursuits, like shooting guns. I hope you enjoy it. If you do listen to the whole thing, by all means, let me know. If you don't have time to listen, maybe I should have broken this up into multiple episodes, but. I'm just releasing as one for you. And if you, if you want to come back to it and it's too damn long to listen to one seating. I certainly encourage you to do that. Just don't be distracted by his initial first half hour worth of fairly serious, typical liberal left coast, California. Bullshit. Enjoy.

Zak: 5:15

Yeah, let me know if there's any

Gene: 5:17

are live

Zak: 5:19

Oh,

Gene: 5:20

Lemme know.

Zak: 5:21

we're live. We're live baby

Gene: 5:23

yeah, we're totally live. So this is Gene, and joining me today is Zach and Zach's distinguishing characteristic as he's a zoomer. Hello, Zoomer. Zach

Zak: 5:34

Hey, I've, I've proven myself to be that as of today, but actually I'm, most zoomers are not as bad as me. I'm more just

Gene: 5:44

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 5:45

incompetent

Gene: 5:46

alluding to is a little bit of delay in getting this episode recorded, which that's all right. I don't mind, we got there in the end. That's the important part.

Zak: 5:56

That, that is the important part. Yeah, that is my defining characteristic. I'm, I'm more of I'm an expert of in Zoom neurology, so I I'm

Gene: 6:05

for all the Zoomers.

Zak: 6:07

not all of'em, but I, I, I am much more conscious of the themes within our generation than most people. It's probably, I was just telling you that I love to record 40 minute long videos of myself talking, and most of the time it's about how it's mostly talking about our generation and how I think that especially people within our age range, which I'm 20 by the way especially people similar and close to my age are we are kind of going to be the key to the Zoomers, which I can

Gene: 6:45

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you answered my first question before I asked it, which is how old are you? So you're 20.

Zak: 6:50

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 6:51

so that I, I don't even know off the top of my head. Does that put you like in the. The older of the Zoomers generation then? Or are you kind of in the middle or what? Where's that, but you

Zak: 7:02

So I honestly, I you, if you look this up anywhere, I, I don't think that there's a clear cut answer. I actually think that we're most, I wouldn't even call my age range Zoomers, honestly. I think we're something special. However,

Gene: 7:21

Of course you do.

Zak: 7:22

dude, of course, who doesn't, who doesn't, but I, I honestly don't know because now they're coming up with all these other generations and you can visibly tell the difference anywhere. But I would really say that, yeah, let's call me a zoomer. I just say mid Midsummer.

Gene: 7:40

Midsummer. Okay. All right. That's fair enough. Yeah. And I, I think that's probably fairly accurate. Cuz I think each generation typically is about a 20 to 25 year span. That's usually what they put one generation into that bucket.

Zak: 7:56

Yeah. Yeah,

Gene: 7:58

so let me ask, let's start with the simple stuff. How, how bad did covid fuck you over?

Zak: 8:05

So I was like the special, I was the worst case scenario. I graduated 2020, so, I missed the entirety of my senior year, just super spontaneously the second half of the senior year, which is, the time where you're supposed to do stupid

Gene: 8:21

Yeah. Stupid shit. Get laid party, all that fun stuff.

Zak: 8:24

Exactly. And not a lot of that really was happening, but the worst part was definitely like the unknowingness of it and just not being able to see my friends before we all went to school or wherever we went. And Yeah. I would say that the year, the next year, they also got equally fucked, but y there was less there was less confusion about it all. So they could still hang out and party and

Gene: 8:51

Right. So you guys were just kind of looking forward to your senior year, like the guys that you watched when you were juniors and then it didn't happen, or it happened totally differently.

Zak: 9:04

Oh my God. It was, it was really a shame. But I was lucky that my school at least did a graduation. We went to Petco Park in San Diego and they were, they were hosting a bunch of different graduations for a bunch of different schools, but we at least got a walk and get our diploma. Yeah. And we all sat in our cars and honked and whatever, which honestly not gonna lie, probably better than the typical graduation. But the problem was, we didn't all get a, have fun together afterwards. I went, I went and I had lunch with my parents or

Gene: 9:40

So that, yeah, that, I mean, that I'm sure that's a, a huge change. Especially like you said, when you guys weren't really prepared for it. And while the, the younger, the guys a year younger also had to do a year from home, at least they kind of knew what was coming.

Zak: 9:56

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gene: 9:57

Yeah, no, that's true. And now you're

Zak: 9:59

Sorry, sorry. Repeat that last part for me.

Gene: 10:02

oh, so the, I'm just sum summarizing up what you were saying. So you guys got screwed and you, but you, because you weren't prepared for what was coming, the guys after you, at least they knew what was coming, even though they also got screwed out of a year.

Zak: 10:15

yeah, exactly. They got screwed more so out of the education that they would've received. I mean, we second semester senior year, really, the teachers are pretty good and nice to you. And it really. Yeah, it was definitely, and at least they kind of had more knowledge about what was going on, as in the teachers. And, you not everything was trying to get figured out and set up and whatever, but

Gene: 10:45

Now you also live in California, so you kind of had the more extreme version of this.

Zak: 10:49

Yep, yep. Yeah, no, I mean, you, it was pretty, I mean, it was pretty brutal here. I, there's only a few friends that I could sometimes see a little bit, and we would be outside and everything, but, it wasn't a small town where, you could kind of just fuck off, like no one's coming in and out. You, you, like, if someone gets covid, you know that there's covid around and you should avoid people. But yeah, we didn't, we were at the point where everyone around us is getting it and we don't know if you, like, it's just gonna kill you or not. And yeah.

Gene: 11:26

Yeah. And they were really the, like, the, the scare meter was an overtime with what they were telling everybody. Which incidentally, I don't know if you catch up on news at all or not, but

Zak: 11:38

I'm a

Gene: 11:38

The, the current stats are now by the end of last year, more people have died C O V D that have been vaccinated than people who are not vaccinated.

Zak: 11:50

Really.

Gene: 11:51

Yep.

Zak: 11:52

Well, I guess that would probably entail that. I mean, most people did get vaccinated, right? And, but what is interesting is that the people choosing not to get vaccinated were probably the least safe out of everybody. Whereas the people who got vaccinated were cockier than everybody. There

Gene: 12:11

they were what?

Zak: 12:12

cockier every,

Gene: 12:13

Oh, Kai

Zak: 12:13

they're like, oh yeah, we're not, we're not gonna get it. We're not gonna get it.

Gene: 12:17

Right.

Zak: 12:17

We're able to go everywhere. Like my aunt, we can talk about this a little bit later, but my aunt, who's heavily invested in Q, the reason why she didn't get covid is cuz she didn't leave her damn house. She's on Facebook all day freaking out about the world and refuses to go anywhere that made her wear a mask. Like the people who are refusing to get vaccinated. This is a pretty big generalization, but from, especially it, it, it's not true for everybody cuz I do know some intelligent people that chose not to get vaccinated however much. So I disagree with that. But I think it was definitely, the, the majority of people that I know who chose or were very vocal about not getting vaccinated, how about that? That's the best way to put it. They they didn't go outside cuz they refused to, they were too pissed off at the world. They were too mad that Fauci was killing and eating children while making everybody get fucking Mark Zuckerberg's sperm cells injected into them. But

Gene: 13:26

Yeah. Well, I,

Zak: 13:27

I'm sure

Gene: 13:27

don't want Mark Zuckerberg's for himself

Zak: 13:31

no. I mean, like, of course not. Who would I, well, okay, super brief theory. I think that Mark Zuckerberg definitely is a robot right now. I think that there was a Mark Zuckerberg before and he was a normal person, but holy shit,

Gene: 13:52

I, I think there's an argument against that because if he was a robot, he would have better.

Zak: 13:57

that's true. But like, think, if you

Gene: 13:59

There's no one's gonna make a robot with such crappy looking hair, like wigs haven't looked that bad in 50 years.

Zak: 14:08

But, but like, doesn't that kind of throw you off a little bit? Look, you're already questioning it, you

Gene: 14:14

Oh, well, I mean, you assume he's a robot. I think you started that and then you're like, well, but is he though? Because just some things just don't add up. Like if you're gonna swap a person out for a robot, you, you're not gonna make'em look so unhuman.

Zak: 14:32

But, but, but doesn't that, you

Gene: 14:36

there are, there are like sex dolls that look so much more realistic than Mark Zuckerberg.

Zak: 14:42

so true. I have a, I actually wrote a screenplay for one of my classes last year. I wrote it. I was in a screenplay class. It was about how basically Mark Zuckerberg was created by Walt Disney in order to like Walt Disney forever ago, to create the metaverse so Walt Disney could come back and they started bringing back people like Einstein. And, Walt Disney is, he was a Nazi. So it, like, like the whole purpose was to basically cage all these famous Jews, like all these people who've had their brains, put into jars or whatever. That was kind of the idea. But

Gene: 15:19

That actually sounds like a pretty, pretty wild screenplay. That would be fun to watch.

Zak: 15:23

yeah. No, I, I really thought that was funny when I was, and I, and I was in a group trying, like we got, that was the screenplay out of our group that got picked, I think because I mean, like, come on. It's, it was awesome. It was called pickled because all these people had pickled brains

Gene: 15:46

that's a good name for it

Zak: 15:47

and every Yeah, it was, it was yeah, it was like Albert Einstein basically had to destroy the metaverse from the inside or like kill Disney. And they basically were trying to like put. Disney back together, but I don't remember the whole idea. It was crazy. But basically, mark Zuckerberg was designed for the future to bring Walt Disney back to life.

Gene: 16:12

Got it. Interesting. That's an interesting theory. All right, well, let's talk about other billionaires.

Zak: 16:16

Yeah.

Gene: 16:17

you think of bill Gates?

Zak: 16:18

I think that there, I think Bill Gates is, I, you see the best thing that, the thing to me about Bill Gates is like, I don't really know all that much about it,

Gene: 16:34

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 16:35

which is a good thing for a billionaire because

Gene: 16:37

I think for most of your life, he was retired already and he is mostly focusing on his human genetic manipulation projects.

Zak: 16:46

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's that too. And I

Gene: 16:49

yeah. That there's that

Zak: 16:51

I mean, Moderna, come on, man. But if you, if you put, if you try and spell Bill Gates from Moderna you'll, you'll, you'll be able to spell it. Think about that one for a second.

Gene: 17:04

Yeah. I, I think he's got way too many fingers in way too many things to be coincidentally

Zak: 17:12

children's holes. I mean, the old that Epstein shit came

Gene: 17:16

I mean, a lot of that, yeah. How many times was he on the Epstein plane? Like the only guy that was on that plane more often was? Bill Clinton.

Zak: 17:22

Well, I think the thing is, is that I don't think, I don't think Bill Gates was actually on it that much. He, he really, so I was watching a video about it not that long ago. He kind of became friends with Epstein bef, like Right. Like pretty late compared to everyone else. He

Gene: 17:40

Yeah. That's actually not the case. He actually knew Epstein back

Zak: 17:43

Oh, before. Yeah.

Gene: 17:45

early nineties. Yeah.

Zak: 17:46

Yeah. Yeah. He like, I don't, I don't remember the whole thing, but that's a reason why, that's one of the reasons why Melinda divorced him, I believe.

Gene: 17:54

Yeah, that's what I always assumed. Although I'm sure that She's never gonna say anything, but it sure seemed like the divorce became like it was a thing right. About the same time that it came out that he was flying off to Lolita Island.

Zak: 18:10

Oh yeah. It what was it? Well, I believe that some, basically there were the insider infos, right? And I don't remember who wrote the article about it, but the insider infos, like the insiders, but it was most likely her legal team that leaked all that information.

Gene: 18:28

Yeah. That could very well be. I mean, she got a nice deal out of that divorce.

Zak: 18:33

Yeah. I mean, honestly, they've done, the thing about Bill is he's a remained relatively silent, I would say he's definitely one of the more prominent billionaires, but as one of the more prominent billionaires, he stayed pretty well out of the media for a long period of time because I think he's smart about it. Obviously he can manipulate, he can pay people off, he can do whatever. But unlike someone that we know he's not, he doesn't make a complete fool of himself. He's definitely very well spoken and he clearly has some level of intelligence

Gene: 19:11

Well, and he is autistic. I mean, he, he's definitely on the spectrum. That's been well documented since his early life.

Zak: 19:19

the man eats at McDonald's like every day and drives a civic like

Gene: 19:23

Yeah, well he used to drive a Porsche when he was in his twenties.

Zak: 19:27

Oh, really? Really?

Gene: 19:29

yeah, there was a lot of a lot of competition with jobs directly, but he was always a, he was a guy that, that definitely showed a lot of early autism, autistic signs. Not like, heavy duty or anything, but just like a guy that would get upset for the lack of repetition.

Zak: 19:47

Yeah, yeah. Definitely some weird yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely some weird behaviors except I'm sure we're gonna move on to the man who must not be named,

Gene: 19:57

Well, yeah. Let's, let's talk about Musk.

Zak: 19:59

Well, let me, I think that this is the best connection is you have Gates, right, who flew on Epstein's, jet mult, like however many times. You probably know the exact number, but how often do we hear about that, right. Compared to this fucking dip shit? I, I think so if we move on to Musk, he, I think Bill was really along the lines of how much a billionaire should be prominent within the media and just in the mainstream. Because, most billionaires are pretty unseen, pretty unheard of

Gene: 20:37

Well, that's definitely what they're usually advised to do because the last thing you need to do is to rock the boat.

Zak: 20:43

and most likely they're kind of, they could be assholes or they could just be proving so, so I

Gene: 20:53

yeah. They're not necessarily assholes, but they're definitely disconnected and it's an opportunity to put your foot in your mouth if you don't, if somebody starts talking about something and your last reference was 15 years ago, cuz you have cha.

Zak: 21:05

Uhhuh,

Gene: 21:06

oh, did they raise the speed limits? Oh, I didn't realize that. You

Zak: 21:08

oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. And like there's, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go as far to say that like there's an illuminati like society o o other than the fact that fucking Epstein. To something, something was happening with that. But, there's a, there's a set of rule standards, and once you reach a certain amount of wealth, you want to keep your wealth. It's just the way that typically human psychology and behavior works and you to do that. You start manipulating politics. You start lobbying, you, you basically go wherever you're gonna get the least amount of money taken away from you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, we can talk about that later. I've recently kind of hopped a little bit on the progressive bad bandwagon but

Gene: 21:58

Yeah. And I, I want to dive a little more into politics, but let, let's cover a few other

Zak: 22:02

us Musk, Musk, Musk, sorry. As you can tell, I have adhd. I'm the most distractible human ever.

Gene: 22:09

Well, I have ocd, so that'll balance up

Zak: 22:12

oh baby, I do too. But Musk, I think, he was, he was very well liked. I think he was above Bill Gates and the well likeness, there's that video of him like crying on 60 Minutes, like, oh my God, he's so cute. Oh my God. Oh my God. But he, but you know, there's, there's so much that's happened, but in my opinion, he's really shown that. He was born, he, he's a nepotism baby. And once you have a certain amount of wealth, you can just accumulate more and more wealth. He's just purchased things. He's, he rarely ever created anything. He's forced people to make things. He's told people to make things, and he's just proven himself to not be a very intelligent human being. Like I, I could, I could argue all day. I, I argue about this with my dad all the time, and I think he's, he might be seeing the light a little bit more, but Musk is, Musk is genuinely stupid. Like, he, like, like it's not just all the actions that he's taken, he just isn't a very smart person.

Gene: 23:19

Now, how do you quantify that? Because he's accomplished an awful lot. So how do you not call that being smart?

Zak: 23:26

so I would, I would argue in response to that is what has he truly accomplished himself? What has he done? Because

Gene: 23:36

Well, he's become the richest man in the world for one.

Zak: 23:39

all obviously Yeah. And, and how much of

Gene: 23:44

And how many people are trying to do that? Like thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions. But he's

Zak: 23:49

I think every single Exactly. Exactly. But if we really just look at his history, like I was just saying a couple seconds ago, is He's just gotten lucky. He's just purchased the right things. He's co-founded the right things, but has he really done anything himself? Like we can see how terrible his business management has been. I mean, like, it's not just that he's obviously bated insane, but he, with the Twitter stuff, he's like the fact that he thinks that he can be, that, that like people can still consider him to be a, a good c e o while he's actively just destroying Tesla stock, not even doing anything with Tesla on his other things. And he's not on Twitter, obviously, and he's not stopping. He's not halting, like, he's obviously addicted, but at some point he has to have realized that he's been making a huge mistake. And I,

Gene: 24:50

Well, what's the mistake in your opinion?

Zak: 24:52

Oh man, there's so many. But I think that the biggest one is he a, oh, that's another thing that's huge for me is his blatant misinformation that he repeatedly posts as fact in reality, even though he's supposed to be such a smart human. He also has like terrible degrees. I don't remember ex anyway, anyway he hasn't shut his big ass mouth. And his, his mouth isn't very smart. The things that come out of his mouth are not very smart. He's just proven himself to be a liar. Someone who doesn't fulfill promises. Someone who just says things to say things. And, as a billionaire dude, like you're, you're not pre 2020 Kanye West dude, like. We won't talk about the modern one, but like, you're not

Gene: 25:47

Oh, yeah, Kanye is hilarious. I mean, this guy, the shit coming out of his mouth, like I, not surprised by a whole lot of things at this stage of my life, but holy shit, when I watched him for the last few appearances,

Zak: 26:02

No, I think my favorite thing was the Alex Jones interview and Alex is like, dude, dude, do do, you're supposed to, you're supposed to, you're supposed to dog whistle. You're not supposed to say it. Like, he's like trying to egg him

Gene: 26:15

I think it was hilarious. Cuz Alex has this look like, holy shit, this guy's insane. And he's making Alex Jones look totally normal.

Zak: 26:24

yeah. Yeah. And that was, that was something that blew my mind. I know we're probably gonna be hopping around a little bit. Did you, did you watch This Place Rules yet?

Gene: 26:34

Which

Zak: 26:35

H B O Max Special? Do you know Andrew Callahan from Channel Five News? Have you ever heard of him? Okay. Watch this Place Rules. Write that one down.

Gene: 26:44

So that's, is it a show or a movie?

Zak: 26:47

movie. This one's a movie. It's basically just a longer one of his, it's a longer version of a YouTube one of his YouTube things, except it digs it, it digs more into the, the what was happening previous to January 6th and what led up to it, because Andrew has a really great way of not, not forcing sympathy upon you, but just showing that all these people are just people and they're all human beings, and they're all deserving of love. They're just stupid and misguided a lot of the time. And so one of the most is it all right if I throw a little spoiler at you?

Gene: 27:27

Sure.

Zak: 27:27

A, a minor spoiler. Okay. Okay. So in the documentary he goes, he's going all over the country. He's going to Atlanta, like to the hood, just interviewing people like where a police officer just shot like a kid in a Wendy's parking lot, like, and he's just interviewing people on the street, like, like black communities. And then he's going and he goes and interviews his family. And all the while it's contrasting, he's going kind of back and forth between, he met this family at some sort of Trump rally who is obviously very queued out, but these children, like these 10 year olds are, are yelling q bullshit, like screaming it and like fully believing it, whatever. And like Andrew basically, he somehow just like, was he let them go, like the, the dad or whatever, let them go to the house and hang out with the kids. And the, he's just like, he's talking to the kids and they're spouting all this stuff about like Hillary Clinton, Clinton eating babies, like that kind of thing. And then he is just like asking'em like normal kid questions. He. Hey, you guys miss school because the parents aren't letting'em go to school cuz they have to wear masks at

Gene: 28:44

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 28:45

It's like, do you miss your friends? Like blah, blah, blah. He's paying, he's playing bay blades with'em, like he's good with kids. He's just like interacting with them like their kids. And it's comparing and contrasting this to, these black teens who live in the projects who are not even teens, just the same age, who are doing the same exact shit except it, it really just shows the difference between people who have to, work 24 7 to even make a living, maybe commit crime, whatever. You can go down that hole, rabbit hole. And then you have like this pretty well off family where like these kids are being brainwashed constantly by their parents, who should be the ones taking care of'em. And you see how irresponsible this, this white family is. And later in the l later in the movie, he goes back and visits them a couple months later after January 6th. And the kid who, so there's three kids, but or four, three or four, I don't know. But the one who he is mostly talking to, who's clearly a very bright kid, like he's not just repeating all this information and like, you know when kids can do that and they seem much more intelligent than they are. He's just like clearly a very smart boy. And he's like, I, I don't believe in any of it anymore. My dad ruined our family. He destroyed our family and he ruined our lives pretty much. And like the dad is just like, he's there too. And it's sad but also, it's like, it really just shows this is by the way, the stuff that I'm most interested in, but it, it just shows how once you start digging yourself this hole, it's nearly impossible to get out of without really, like, it's not easy, like, that you fucked up. You can have the knowledge, but you only have one community because you pushed everyone else away. Like, there needs to be like literal Q recovery groups. Like my aunt is like fucking hard lining this shit. She's, she's just got like a bag of fentanyl attached to her all day, like 10 hours a day on Telegram, on, I don't even know what she's on. She deleted Facebook so she could have more room for telegram messages,

Gene: 31:06

So where do you think where did Q come from?

Zak: 31:09

what, where did it

Gene: 31:10

do you think Q came? Yeah, where did it come from?

Zak: 31:13

I, so this is where my generation really showed itself. So I've kind of probably since sixth, seventh, sixth, sixth, seventh or eighth grade, seventh or eighth. I don't even remember when I started. But like, I'm, I was a kid. I was doing kid shit. I was on four chan, like browsing every once in a while. I never really liked it. But one thing that's really interesting, so there's this app called I Funny. This is, this is some like top secret information I'm providing right now, by the way. But I, funny notably hilariously, unfunny on the surface, but there's communities underneath the surface and a lot of this, gamer gay I don't, I don't want to get entirely into that, but as I've grown up, I can still follow these people who I've been following since I was in seventh grade. and learning over time, like these people, I, I would see them post Pizzagate shit before Pizzagate became even remotely mainstream. Like they were making this information, and over time still following them, they'll start posting their ages. And I'm like, holy shit, you've been my age this whole time, and you are the one making all of this. And basically, I think where Q really came from, I went on to eight chan or eight Kun the other day, like a while ago.

Gene: 32:43

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 32:44

I, I, I think it's, it's mostly been created by psychopathic narcissists who no, but like, honestly like diagnosable, like this is the only thing that makes them happy is fucking with large groups of human beings. Because I, I was on this, I was on the side of the internet. I loved that shit. I loved fucking

Gene: 33:05

Well there there's definitely the antisocial behavior crowd is always had a very cozy home on the internet.

Zak: 33:11

a hundred percent. And I'm sure that, yeah. You met my dad on what? A pirate board, right?

Gene: 33:16

Yeah. We don't talk about that

Zak: 33:18

Yeah. Yeah. We can, we can cut that out

Gene: 33:20

no, that's, that's e exactly true. So I actually, I ran a Pirate Bolton board when I was

Zak: 33:26

Oh, it was you, you were the one running it. Yeah, exactly. You were 16 years old. Mm-hmm.

Gene: 33:32

And your dad gets on there and I'm, I happen to be the computer when it was happening. So I see a new application coming in and I noticed that he put, he had a PC and it said Mac or pc and I, I was running a Mac bulletin board.

Zak: 33:49

Oh

Gene: 33:49

and so I, I jumped on to just let him know I'm gonna kick him off cuz it's for Mac people,

Zak: 33:56

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 33:56

And and he's like, oh, hey, no, I've actually, I've got both, but he didn't have both of his options, so I just put PC down and that was literally how I met your dad.

Zak: 34:06

That is so fucking funny.

Gene: 34:08

Isn't that hilarious?

Zak: 34:09

That is like genuinely hilarious because he is probably, he's four years older than you. He is

Gene: 34:14

Five. He's five years older. Yeah. So he was 21, I was 16. And then he proceeded to corrupt me by buying me alcohol.

Zak: 34:22

that is hilarious. Wait, did you, I forgot where you lived. Where, where did you get, were you in Cato?

Gene: 34:28

No, no, no, no. This was right after he moved up to Minneapolis. So I lived in the

Zak: 34:32

Oh, oh,

Gene: 34:33

he lived in, up north in the northern burbs with his first wife. And it was It, it's, it's funny remembering back to those days cuz it doesn't seem like all that long ago, obviously a while ago, but, it was way, way, way before you were born.

Zak: 34:48

yeah, but you, it's crazy how much of that is just a straight up testament

Gene: 34:56

what happened is the volume got cranked up to 11 because we were doing a lot of shit that was, the adults would not like

Zak: 35:02

Yeah. But, but most, but Mo here's the thing is, most people on those pages were intelligent. They weren't, they knew what they were doing. You had to know your way around this stuff, and you could probably sniff out most bullshit

Gene: 35:16

But there was still bullshit around back then though. I

Zak: 35:19

Oh, oh, a hundred percent. Exactly. Well, exactly, that's what I'm saying. But you knew as, as a bullshitter, most people who were coming on to your board or wherever you were, were also most likely bullshit. But the problem is, is once it gets introduced to the general public in the mainstream, is you have people who are like, if I go back, like I follow this actually finish what you were gonna say,

Gene: 35:47

Well, I, the, the only thing I was gonna say in there is back in those days, back in the eighties we, the people that were doing Bolton boards and stuff parenting software, doing whatever, as as kids, we would still get together in person because a, it seemed unnatural to just never meet somebody. It was weird. Not these days it's normal. But also because we're not talking like everybody's online at once. Cuz you have usually either one or two. I had two lines and that was considered like fancy. For calling in. So you, there would be two people at most online at the same time. You'd be on for half an hour, maybe download something, grab something, write some messages, then log off and somebody else would log in.

Zak: 36:30

Yeah.

Gene: 36:31

when you get together in person, then all of a sudden it's like, there's 25 people here. And then they're all, they all bring their computers with them. Everybody's bringing their, all their gear at a big meetup.

Zak: 36:43

Dude, there's nothing better than that. Shit. Actu well keep going.

Gene: 36:48

Well, and it's, this was all like pre network games even. So there, it wasn't even like a land party. It was, it was, it looked like a land party will eventually look once there were computer games. But back then, the only games that existed were single player games. So there was not even an opportunity to play anything with other people?

Zak: 37:07

Well, I mean, like, maybe there was some. Well, what I would like Atari type things where you could do

Gene: 37:15

Well, oh yeah. Okay. Okay. So there wasn't anything on the network and there wasn't anything on the computers.

Zak: 37:20

Oh. Oh.

Gene: 37:20

games did have two controllers or even four controllers. Yeah, for

Zak: 37:25

So what I was gonna bring up is I don't know how so,

Gene: 37:30

Dude, your dad and I used to go to arcades and spend like 10 bucks.

Zak: 37:33

oh man. Oh man. Holy shit. 10 bucks.

Gene: 37:37

telling you. Big money.

Zak: 37:38

Big money, dude. That's like, that's more than you'd find in the couch cushions. But

Gene: 37:44

I don't think I've had cash in my hands for about five years now. So,

Zak: 37:48

Oh really? Wow. That's, that's crazy. Okay, Mr. Fancy Schmanzy over here. You

Gene: 37:53

not fancy. I just, eh, it's a more convenient to just use a card.

Zak: 37:57

I just got my debit card in the mail after not having one for probably two years. I

Gene: 38:04

Why? Why'd you not have one?

Zak: 38:06

because I lost it and I just never reordered

Gene: 38:08

You never reordered for two years. Why you had no expenses.

Zak: 38:12

But here's the thing is, I, I haven't needed one because I can just use my phone.

Gene: 38:18

Oh, that's true. That's a good point. Yep. Yep. So you don't need to have a card, it's just re reminding this old shit. Back then, credit cards didn't have, not only did they not have a chip, they didn't have a magnetic strip. And what would happen is they would actually make a copy of the front of the card,

Zak: 38:37

mm-hmm.

Gene: 38:38

with that embosser machine that would kind of go clink, clank. And they had copy paper, the, the black little thin sheets of paper that had transferable link when you press on it. And then those would actually be settled up like once a month. It was totally different. Now, I send you money electronically, you get it within a minute.

Zak: 38:58

Oh yeah, yeah. Well, the better, the even better part about that is I'm sure Gene would never have done anything naughty with that very simply Exploitable type thing.

Gene: 39:10

It was extremely exploitable. Yeah. Unbelievably. Yeah,

Zak: 39:14

Yeah. I mean, like, it, it, it's so exploitable that you probably could have just put up on, you could have had some form of a, like an embosser or a mold type thing

Gene: 39:26

man,

Zak: 39:26

had a bunch of random numbers and they would've embossed

Gene: 39:29

Yeah. And nobody would even know. Nobody would know. Cuz you, you're running it through the machine. And I think some of the earliest scams were doing exactly that kind of

Zak: 39:37

Yeah.

Gene: 39:38

it was like, anytime you have convenience, there's always a way for criminals to utilize it.

Zak: 39:44

Oh, a hundred

Gene: 39:45

That's just goes without saying.

Zak: 39:47

Yeah. Okay, so one thing that I was gonna bring up about the games is first, do you, what, who, like influencer wise, do you watch Twitch streamers or YouTube people at

Gene: 39:59

Yeah, I watch, I watch both. I occasionally do both, actually. I'm on another streamer's channel very frequently as just, a guy who's like in his party doing shit with him.

Zak: 40:11

Big streamer or

Gene: 40:12

nah, he's not very big, but he, he's he's in the game that I've been spending a lot of time in, which is Star Citizen.

Zak: 40:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know you used to be a big art guy, but,

Gene: 40:24

Yeah. I did ARC for, I think I got 4,000 hours in arc, so

Zak: 40:30

as many. I cuz you were modding, right?

Gene: 40:33

I was, yeah, I was actually writing mods for Arc because I got into ARC as soon as it came out in pre-release,

Zak: 40:41

Uhhuh

Gene: 40:41

and I quickly discovered there were things that just either were impossible or difficult to do.

Zak: 40:49

No, that game sucks ass. Yeah. Like it's not, yeah, it's like just an, I remember when I was old, I, I actually don't think I ever owned Arc, but I've

Gene: 40:59

Really? Oh, I, I love that game. I, I've had so much fun in that game,

Zak: 41:03

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. People fucking love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But,

Gene: 41:06

up writing I think three or four different mods basically for me. And then of course I posted'em, and then I had like thousands of people using'em because, they're convenient.

Zak: 41:17

Okay. You're just Remi, you're, you're bringing me back a little bit, but Okay. Okay. I'll get to a few things, but influencer wise, who do you watch? Like, or maybe I should just ask you, do you know who Ludwig is? Have you heard that name? So, how much have you paid attention to him? As of late?

Gene: 41:35

I mean, I've seen'em a few times. I, I've certainly heard the name. I don't watch regularly. I don't think I subscribe or anything.

Zak: 41:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're, you're one of the unsubscribed, he always tells you to subscribe. He's, he always shows you the, the thing. But what, so, I, I have a, i, I have an innate knack for finding things that have longevity and that are going to get popular or stay popular. Stay relevant. And Ludwig's one of them, he just recently though, did a chess boxing match. I don't know if you saw any of

Gene: 42:11

Mm-hmm. I did not, no

Zak: 42:14

Yeah. Can you guess what that is?

Gene: 42:17

chess, boxing,

Zak: 42:18

Yeah.

Gene: 42:19

I don't know. Chess board with boxing? I don't know.

Zak: 42:23

Basically do like two to f it was like 2, 4, 5, 6 minutes of chess. I don't remember how many. And then, so you do that, you put, you're playing a game of chess.

Gene: 42:34

Yeah.

Zak: 42:35

And then the way he had it set up is the chess board, like gets lifted up into the air and then you get into your corners, you put on your boxing gloves and shit, and

Gene: 42:43

Oh, okay.

Zak: 42:44

like two minutes. And it's influencers doing it.

Gene: 42:48

Yeah, that, that's, it's interesting. My, I think partly cuz of my age, just partly cuz of my interest level I tend not to watch people that do kind of simplistic or, I don't know, goofy games. I watch more simulation people.

Zak: 43:03

Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm gonna give you some good names, man. I, I, but keep going, keep

Gene: 43:09

Well, and it's, I, so there there's tons of people that have gotten really big that I just, I can't watch their content because it's just not that interesting.

Zak: 43:22

I, I understand. I'm such a little gatekeeper, man. Like the second something gets too big, I'm, I leave

Gene: 43:31

yeah. And it's not even too big necessarily. It's, it's more of just interest level wise, I, I've always really enjoyed playing simulation games. I like stuff where, it's, it's you figuring out how to do something creatively that ends up being an advantage and not just using a formula of, up, up, left, right, left up, up.

Zak: 43:55

yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It gets

Gene: 43:58

any monkey can remember that shit.

Zak: 44:01

Well, I don't know how much speed running you watch, but that's always

Gene: 44:04

I've watched a few speed running things. I've,

Zak: 44:07

Yeah.

Gene: 44:08

I mean, that is definitely a skill and, and some people are incredibly good at speed

Zak: 44:12

Oh my God, man. It's fucking wild. Yeah.

Gene: 44:15

but also I like to, like, I'm more of a completionist than a speed runner personality-wise.

Zak: 44:24

Uhhuh Uhhuh

Gene: 44:25

when I play a game, I, I tend to not rush through the main storyline. I wanna kind of take on a lot of quests, a side quests, and then once I kind of run out of side quests and I'll do the next segment of the main storyline, just make sure I get everything, which also typically means

Zak: 44:45

little bit of o c d moment.

Gene: 44:47

yeah, a little bit. But also it means like, by the time I'm doing the end boss, I've got like superpowers

Zak: 44:53

Yeah, yeah. That's, that's the only problem. Did you go through Eldon ring?

Gene: 44:58

I, no, I've, I've none of that one.

Zak: 45:00

Dude? What's wrong with you? Man?

Gene: 45:03

I was, I was playing ARC when that was up.

Zak: 45:06

oh my God. Fucking play Eldon ring man. You will, you will

Gene: 45:10

Well, aren't they coming out with a new version? I heard something about that.

Zak: 45:14

no, probably not. They, they take forever to release games. They're they by far the best games. I mean, I, I, I've never been a big Dark Souls guy, but holy shit man. If what you just explained to me is it, you will have, you will be, it. It's, it's hard. You can choose what you choose to invest your time in energy and whatever, but also there's the part where it's like, there's so much to do. It's a great open world game. It's

Gene: 45:48

Well, and that, that's really cool cuz I, I do like a lot of the open world. So I just, the last one kind of along those lines I finished is cyberpunk 2077.

Zak: 45:58

gonna ask you, yeah. So

Gene: 46:00

So I, I bought it before it came out, but I, I started watching your views, like right when it was

Zak: 46:06

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You,

Gene: 46:07

was saying how horrible it is and once somebody said something really smart, they said, if you bought it, the best thing you can do right now is just leave it uninstalled for a year. Wait a year. Let, they'll fix it all. They always, they always do. Just give'em a year, don't play it and, and make the game be shitty and play it once it's done. And I kind of forgot about it. And then about a year and a half later after it came out, I remembered, oh, I have this, I just don't have it installed.

Zak: 46:35

Yeah.

Gene: 46:36

it, I didn't watch the anime and a lot of people did, but it was right

Zak: 46:39

the fuck is, oh my God, there's so much wrong with you right Just kidding. Keep

Gene: 46:43

I'm not a kid for one, so,

Zak: 46:45

Oh, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, I, if you don't like anime, I, this show will get you into anime. It

Gene: 46:55

Well, anim, I, I watched a anime when I was in my teens and my

Zak: 47:00

yeah. Yeah,

Gene: 47:01

and then eventually I got married and I stopped watching anime. And not saying everybody goes through that process, but I think a lot of people

Zak: 47:09

someone's a virgin hater over here, but No, no, I understand. I understand.

Gene: 47:14

anyway. Yeah. And I do, I do like, like the oli cosplay shit that comes out of anime. I'm all for

Zak: 47:20

Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 47:21

it's just, I don't know. And again, one of the, the enemy that I liked was the, the more hardcore enemy, not the cutesy enemy.

Zak: 47:29

Cyber punk is fucking hard. That show, that show is gory as

Gene: 47:35

What was it on? Maybe that's the other

Zak: 47:37

It's on Netflix. It's on Netflix. So,

Gene: 47:39

I don't, I don't, I I think I told you I don't, I don't have pfl,

Zak: 47:43

What that, what dude that fuck that. I was like, did he just like, text somebody? What? Why did he

Gene: 47:50

Oh. That's why I refer to Netflix as

Zak: 47:52

No, no. I know. I, I looked it up. I'm like, what is Gene into what's going on here? Scared the hell out of me.

Gene: 47:59

Oh really? No, that's funny. Yeah, no, I, I did a, they've been like, I, I was, had Netflix literally since it first came out when they had, the only shit they had when they started, by the way, was they had a bunch of Indian movies, like movies from India that they bought licenses to super cheap and then they had a bunch of like 1970s TV shows. It was just

Zak: 48:21

get the disk coming to you?

Gene: 48:22

Yeah. You would get the disks and then you could, you could sign up for in fact the first, when you first signed up, when it first became available online, it was a free add-on and they didn't start charging an additional fee for like two or three years and then there was like four bucks or something for both online, and then added onto your eight or nine bucks for the normal disks by mail service. And then eventually there was no point in doing disks by mail. Cuz all the good stuff is coming on an online version as well.

Zak: 48:52

Uhhuh.

Gene: 48:52

But I don't know, man. I just, I, I, I hate vog shit, man. I just can't stand it. I think this country that it just took a, a left turn for the worst with this whole culture out there. And I'm really hoping your generation isn't buying into it the way the millennials.

Zak: 49:12

I'm, I'm gonna help you out here a little bit. Cuz I've been, I, my dad's a very, he's interesting. I've really been learning a lot about him, but he's, he's definitely a hard-headed person who is very stuck in his values in ways. I think the first thing,

Gene: 49:29

Yeah. I could tell you a few stories.

Zak: 49:31

Oh yeah, no, I'm sure. So I've really been trying, especially with like this Elon shit, like, he made me a bet. He was like, a hundred dollars, if you bet a hundred, I'll, I'll give you a thousand if he fucks up Twitter. So I, I hopefully will be receiving that.

Gene: 49:46

Bet on

Zak: 49:47

Elon Musk fucking up Twitter, because I was trying to explain to him that Elon Musk is like one of the stupidest human beings ever. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. How could he be stupid? How? I'm like, Mike, Mike, Mike, look at this pole. That like, I, I just, I, I was, I was quite aggressive with him. I was kind of, I, but like, he, he needs a little slap in the face every once in a while anyway, with the woke culture ship.

Gene: 50:11

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 50:12

So, I've recently gotten kind of into Hassan. Do you know, you've heard of Hassan? Maybe. I'm actually, so the reason why I really have been as, as the, as the Zoomers say, fucking with him is he, he, he, he's just honest. He's not, he's never, he, if there's any woke culture bullshit,

Gene: 50:36

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 50:37

just steps on it. He's like, no, fuck off. Like, I don't know, this is bullshit. Like, stop saying shit like this. But I think there's the other side where whenever I hear the words cancel culture or woke, right, right around now woke is a little different. I, I, it's a hit or miss, like the way you said it was better, but it just makes me feel like, holy shit, you don't know what you're talking about. Like, that shit doesn't exist. You are obsessed with b t s loving 12 year old girls. Like that is who you're let allowing to determine your political opinion and views. And I think because it took me a while to get around to it too it took a lot of people, my generation a while, but you know, like I was mentioning earlier, I was kind of on this side of the internet. I was never right. But I definitely was like on the offensive side, right? And it took a little bit of a traumatic event along with a couple of other things. But once I started to get it, once, once society started making sense to me, and again, like this, my brain just, I'm 20, right? Like, I still got five more, six more years to go before I'm fully developed. But it's feeling, my brain's feeling pretty cool right now. I'm like, holy shit.

Gene: 51:54

Yeah.

Zak: 51:54

I'm, I'm somewhat smart. Or I'm smarter than I was. Anyway, once it started making sense to me, it's like, It's so easy to filter out the bullshit. And the reason why I like Hassan a lot is because he really explains to people who might be like, opposed to all this woke culture shit and might not want to be involved whatsoever with liberalism or politics in general, or not liberalism, but I guess progressivism, progre progress. See, maybe I'm not that smart. But like at all, because, they associate all of it with the woke culture. It's just like, no dude, just don't be a fucking asshole to people who, like people are transgender. Like grow up, like you don't need to judge anybody for being transgender. Like, people know that they're transgender by the time they're six most of the time. Like, it's, there's, there's, and, and by observing my dad and his responses to a lot of this, I'm like, I'm not the one whose brainwashed you are So set in your ways, in your culture and your age that you refuse to even observe any of this, and you're just contradicting yourself at every turn. And when I try to explain it to you, like I'll get a little aggravated, I had a great conversation with him last night, but like I, I'm just like, dude, if your whole thing is not caring so much, why the fuck do you care so much? Like, stop saying cancel culture. It doesn't exist. People are getting quote unquote canceled by like two year olds now. Like, it's not a thing that's happening when people are getting like, I guess what you would call canceled. It's, it's deserved most of the time now, like at the very beginning.

Gene: 53:48

So do you think that makes it okay?

Zak: 53:50

Dependent. Again, very, very dependent.

Gene: 53:52

Because, the people that did the most canceling were world War II Nazis.

Zak: 53:57

yeah,

Gene: 53:58

They canceled a, a whole group of people.

Zak: 54:01

Yeah. No, I mean, like, no, no, that's not true though.

Gene: 54:05

It is.

Zak: 54:07

No. I mean, 6 million, are you kidding me?

Gene: 54:10

That's a, it's a pretty good sized group of people.

Zak: 54:12

I'm just fucking with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. You know me, I'm a Jew, so, my Holocaust survivor grandma's here right now as well, so, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway but, but that's not canceling. That's not, no one's dying. It's like, I think, I think at the very beginning, I think this is what really gave it

Gene: 54:31

Well, he didn't start with people dying, dude. Now if you look

Zak: 54:34

Oh, no, I'm talking,

Gene: 54:36

in the 1930s, it,

Zak: 54:37

look at the history of

Gene: 54:38

dying started.

Zak: 54:40

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, look at Catholicism in Roman,

Gene: 54:44

horrible. Yeah.

Zak: 54:46

the worst. Like,

Gene: 54:47

Yeah.

Zak: 54:47

but I'm, I, I'm,

Gene: 54:49

I think if you look at Catholicism, which is a good example, and I think you're kind

Zak: 54:52

oh, it's my favorite example, man.

Gene: 54:54

towards the

Zak: 54:55

the cause

Gene: 54:57

well, no I mean there's the, probably the, the thing that I usually point to on looking at the bad elements of Catholicism is the inquisition,

Zak: 55:07

Yeah,

Gene: 55:08

where under the guise of that religion, basically anybody that wasn't espousing Catholicism was tortured and eventually killed, and all their property taken.

Zak: 55:23

no, that, but, but no, I'm just, sorry, I'm gonna keep on saying that. I'm joking whenever I say that, by the way. Because

Gene: 55:31

Well, I mean, you, you keep saying it, you're just gonna look more dumb every time you say that, but

Zak: 55:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. I'm, I'm making, I'm making a joke every single time I'm making a joke, but I, well, exactly. I mean, you look at

Gene: 55:43

nobody expects a Spanish Inquisition.

Zak: 55:46

no exact Exactly. Oh, man, that was, that was that threw me back. I was in fourth grade when that was like a meme. That's crazy.

Gene: 55:59

think I was in fourth grade when that was a meme

Zak: 56:01

well, yeah, exactly. It d it ca

Gene: 56:04

dude.

Zak: 56:04

Yeah. Yeah. No, and it repeated, right? Like it came back. I remember having like a soundboard with all these buttons, like a

Gene: 56:11

yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the thing that's so funny is what, what kind of are memes these days today? It's not like people weren't saying or showing memes before the internet and before computers. It was just all done verbally. People just repeat funny, stupid phrases like that.

Zak: 56:31

dude. I mean, like, so that's oh my God, there's so many things I'm holding in my brain right now. But that's one thing about my generation. It's so funny because I'm such a little gatekeeper, so I, I always know about memes six months before they become mainstream. I'm gonna say that. I'm gonna sound like an asshole saying it, but I don't

Gene: 56:51

you're also not very little. How tall are you?

Zak: 56:55

six four. I'm big, I'm a big fella. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big fella. Yeah. Yeah. Big asshole. But, I, I, I, it, it, once it, once people start saying it, I'm like, like, I can't, I can't handle it if it's not me and my friend saying it, like I can't handle it. And, but at the same time, there's these words like be like, I don't know if you've ever heard that. Also, like, I've been working on my usage of like,

Gene: 57:23

Just using the word, like

Zak: 57:25

Yeah. I, I, I stopped, I was doing it for a while,

Gene: 57:29

you're conscious of saying it and you're trying to avoid it.

Zak: 57:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Gene: 57:34

a lot of, I think a lot of people go through that at some point in their lives. Some people never stop using it. They use it forever. But those of us that notice that, it definitely starts to jump out at you every time

Zak: 57:49

exactly. And it's like, oh, oh, Oh,

Gene: 57:53

now of course we have software that does text or speech to text and. Like, one of the things that I use for podcasting is called Script which it, it shows you all those words. In fact, you can remove'em. And one of the regular things I do on podcasts is I, I remove all the ums

Zak: 58:15

ooh,

Gene: 58:16

cuz there's a lot of

Zak: 58:16

I like that.

Gene: 58:17

There's

Zak: 58:18

Hey a lot of

Gene: 58:19

Yeah. There's usually several hundred ums per hour. It just pops up cuz empty,

Zak: 58:25

That is fucking wild.

Gene: 58:27

Yeah. It's you save about three, four minutes worth of length on the podcast.

Zak: 58:32

crazy. 700. Wow.

Gene: 58:35

at 200 per hour usually.

Zak: 58:38

Okay. Okay. You, you over exaggerated it a little bit,

Gene: 58:41

Yeah. Well, I thought I said two, but either way. So that's about 400 for a two hour podcast. You get about 400, 400 of those ums to remove.

Zak: 58:49

Yeah.

Gene: 58:50

gonna leave'em all in for this podcast just because I'm pointing it out. I wanna not, not,

Zak: 58:56

not, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Gene: 58:57

I wanna leave them in.

Zak: 58:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But

Gene: 59:00

But yeah, so we, we were, let's get back to games. So we're talking about cyberpunk

Zak: 59:04

Oh my God. Well, well, before we Okay, we can backtrack super quick to the, to the be lit, that kind of thing. I'm always late to that shit, but I'm always early to music. I'm always early to like to memes, to there we go. There's a, for

Gene: 59:22

So that means you spend way too much time on the computer or the

Zak: 59:25

I, I, I used to, I don't do an amor. I, I, I, now it's just music. I, I super music's focus Super video

Gene: 59:33

you, what, what are you listening to now?

Zak: 59:35

I would not, I don't think that there's necessarily really a okay, okay, let's do this. I'm gonna cover this in a minute because I can go on forever about it. So basically what happened is at some point my dad, right? He, here's a rap song. He's like, he pisses me off so much with it. But so I used to hate it. I used to hate rap. And then eventually something clicked and I think it was my cousin was showing me maybe the underground rap scene I was making, like joke rap. I kept on making jokes about all these rappers that were coming up, the lil phase, whatever. And what was really interesting is, for some

Gene: 1:00:17

when you say rap, do you mean hip hop?

Zak: 1:00:20

I mean, rap, so, so I would say hip hop, I would say hip hop is more like what you would think old school rap is, I think I would say new rap. So, I think you've probably heard this name, Lil Pee, right?

Gene: 1:00:34

I, I never have. No.

Zak: 1:00:36

Oh, really? There's a whole documentary made about him recently. I'm trying to think. So, so I would, I would say Kendrick Lamar is kind of in between hip hop and rap for me and my eyes. Because he's more lyrically focused. He's more beat focused, he's more storytelling. That's how I feel about hip hop. Right. And then rap is more what you would, you would, you would listen to rap and you would be like, I actually don't know what your opinion would be, but my

Gene: 1:01:03

Well, I'll tell you, when I, when I was listening to rap, it was run D m C,

Zak: 1:01:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, for me, I don't even consider that's like, that's, that's hip hop. Well, I guess that is rap. That is rap.

Gene: 1:01:17

So after that is when hip hop kind of came more mainstream,

Zak: 1:01:22

Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:01:23

and that's when I kind of stopped listening

Zak: 1:01:25

Yeah

Gene: 1:01:26

and so to me it was like, well, we had the rap back in the eighties and then hip hop, I was kind of like nineties and after. And so it sounds like now rap is

Zak: 1:01:36

it's a, it's such a huge, huge, extensive term nowadays. There's, there's no one real genre because of computers. I mean, you can produce anything at home. I've made music, I made a lot of music like Eazy Peasy Lemon squeezy. Anyway getting

Gene: 1:01:52

blown away by how the quality of production people are doing at the home now.

Zak: 1:01:58

it is. So, it, well, so, okay. Okay. Let me go, I'll go on a little tirade. Don't I'm, I'm gonna just go straight down the hole. So I, I'm sure you've heard of Lil Uzi Vert,

Gene: 1:02:10

No,

Zak: 1:02:10

the guy who got the pink diamond embedded in his forehead. You remember that? Yeah. Oh my God. Future

Gene: 1:02:18

no.

Zak: 1:02:18

Young Thug.

Gene: 1:02:19

Yes.

Zak: 1:02:21

Okay. Okay. So Young Thug. Young Thug is probably the granddaddy of like so much that man, that man. I don't even like him personally, but like he, he is the base. He, he has been so influential. But if we run down the list, so essentially what happened is my cousin was showing me music. He was kind of into it.

Gene: 1:02:44

born about the time I stopped listening to Rap

Zak: 1:02:47

What's fuck in, what's, wait, Thugger was,

Gene: 1:02:50

Yeah.

Zak: 1:02:52

I thought he was old. He just got a re He's, he is, he's not getting outta jail. That guy's

Gene: 1:02:56

born in 91.

Zak: 1:02:57

is fucked right now. He has like 10 kids.

Gene: 1:02:59

Yeah.

Zak: 1:03:00

he has a, he has Yeah. Well, and he, he loves them. And his family's always at risk when his flight's being tracked. Anyway so going down the list. So what happened is Lil Pee, so he's one of the rappers who died he died I think 27, 28. He's in the 27 club, 28.

Gene: 1:03:19

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:03:19

what the club is. No, he's not. Sorry. He died at 22, 21 or 22. He was, he was young. He was really young. Which is kind of the age that a lot of these rappers have been dying at

Gene: 1:03:28

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:03:29

He was kind of one, I, I, I hated his music at first. My, my friend like, was like, did you hear that Lil Peep died? I'm like, who the fuck is that? And then eventually something happened where my cousin was like, let put on some little peep. And I'm like, I hate him. And he can't listen to that. And I, and he can't stand this modern rap. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh shit, wait. I really like this. This has a vibe. This has an energy to it. So then after that I started getting into it and I started watching music videos, which is one of my passions now is music videos. It's probably one of the things that I want to spend a lot of my, it's something that I find very entertaining. I like making'em, I like working on'em, making edits, whatever. And I love watching them. Anyway, so there's this channel on YouTube called A Star. They do a lot of underground rap. Music videos, or they just post them on their channel. And so I just started going down, and I think you've probably heard of Lil Zan as that is the coolest name ever.

Gene: 1:04:30

Little Zen? I don't think so.

Zak: 1:04:32

you've never heard of Lil Zn? He surprisingly, he ended up in the hospital for eating too many Hu Hedos. I actually know his ex. But that's, that's a whole other story. So there's a song by him. He has like two good songs. But there, there's a song by him and I'm like, holy shit. Like, this makes sense to me now I get it. And I started going down and this is a rabbit hole, man. And then you just start going down and down in shit that you like listened to a couple months ago, and you're like, what the fuck? How do people listen to this? And then all of a sudden it starts clicking and it clicks and clicks. And now I'm listening to what I would, so basically, this is what I love about the new rap game and the genre. Right now. It's kind of, it's, it's kind of, it's about to start a new era. I really hope because it's, it's flatlined a little bit, but I'm big into Glitch. Core Hyper Pop is kind of the genre that I would

Gene: 1:05:28

Glitch. Core hyper pop.

Zak: 1:05:31

Have you heard of Hyper Pop?

Gene: 1:05:33

No.

Zak: 1:05:34

Oh man. So, okay. So Hyper Pop is like, it's, it really just got started, but at first you're like, how can anyone listen to this? And then it makes sense. That's just typically how it works with it. And then Glitch Core

Gene: 1:05:48

And what's it, if you were describing it without somebody listening to it, what, what is it like?

Zak: 1:05:54

So hyper pop is probably, it. It, it was so, oh my God. I don't know if you heard of Sophie trans Woman. She died looking up at the Stars in Greece. It's a crazy story, but yeah, she like fell off of some thing, but she was a huge, huge producer. Huge

Gene: 1:06:13

mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:06:14

And she anyway, I don't even know why I brought that up. The way I would describe it is it's since pop is so mainstream, so simplistic, it's basically overexaggerating every single aspect of it to an extreme. And it's awesome. Like at first you're like, Ew, what is this? And then it starts making sense. So, high pitched vocals, low pitch vo well, mostly high pitched vocals. Like the gain is all the way up. Like it's peaking, it's doing whatever. And it's, and and it's really impressive, like how good a lot of it sounds, but I don't really listen to the mainstream stuff. So there's this group, a hundred Gs, they're probably. I, I, I found their music video on Asari, I think, like way before they blew up. But those, those two are, they're probably like that. It's the kind of music that I showed people two years ago and they're like, please shut this off, Zach. And now they're obsessed with it. It, it's, it's what happens with ol again, I'm a little, I mean, I'm a huge gatekeeper asshole, but it, I show people stuff before it blows up. And then, so what happened is that genre, which took a little bit from pretty much everything started combining with the underground rap scene, which is what I was very involved in. So, underground rap scene being SoundCloud, rap Young Lean is huge. Have you heard of Young Lean?

Gene: 1:07:49

No, no, no. I've heard of SoundCloud,

Zak: 1:07:52

Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 1:07:55

Underground rap back, back in the day was basically guys that do a run of vinyl.

Zak: 1:08:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is super different cuz SoundCloud rap, you gotta sort, like there is some

Gene: 1:08:07

There's so much stuff on, on SoundCloud. It's almost like I can't

Zak: 1:08:11

It's really difficult to find what's good. Yeah, I, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, same. I I just, I bought SoundCloud Go cuz I get like a$2 a month

Gene: 1:08:21

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:08:22

Like that's crazy. Student being a student's cool for that. But anyway,

Gene: 1:08:26

of all that shit. It all goes away.

Zak: 1:08:29

oh it's so nice. Young Lean is he. Probably the most influential SoundCloud artist. He's a Swedish guy. There's actually two documentaries about him. Really weird. But he's a, he's a really cool guy. He's, but he's been on the internet. Like he started on the internet. Everything. He just made stupid ass kind of jokey, but not really. But he created a sound. And then this was, this was like the underground sound. It's like the ultimate gate keep, it's like you, like I can't explain to you why the music that I listen

Gene: 1:09:01

All right. Well, I, I will check out Hyper pop, glitch

Zak: 1:09:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, the, the, the bottom line is they both combined and then 14 year olds to 18 year olds started making the best music of these genres. And that's what's been incredible and amazing for me to watch is just like, oh my God, you guys are so much more creative, talented, and whatever than anybody else. You're making collectives. You're, you're managing all this stuff on your own. There's no adults influencing you, and yet you're doing, you're maybe not doing better numbers wise, but you're making better quality content and more creative content because you have to be creative. And, if you have a child's mind or like a kid's mind and maybe you're starting the smoke weed or like do psychedelics or whatever, like, y like these kids are just making beautiful shit. And anyway, that's, that, that's another thing that I'm super passionate about. But we can go back to games now.

Gene: 1:10:08

Well, I, yeah, I mean, we, we got a few other things to cover. Yeah. As far as games, I was just gonna say, I, I really enjoyed cyberpunk. I'm glad I waited till they fixed everything.

Zak: 1:10:18

Sorry, what did.

Gene: 1:10:19

I'm glad they, that I waited until they fixed everything, all the.

Zak: 1:10:25

Oh my God. Yeah, they I think it was the most played game on Steam pretty much ever like two years after it came out. Right?

Gene: 1:10:33

Yeah, exactly.

Zak: 1:10:34

maybe It was just

Gene: 1:10:35

Yeah, probably that's right. Around two years or so. It, which is, and they just won some award, I can't remember what, but it was like the end of 2022 award. So literally two years after the game came out,

Zak: 1:10:46

yeah. It's so funny. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's

Gene: 1:10:49

for 180 million,

Zak: 1:10:51

really,

Gene: 1:10:52

stockholders because they fucked up the launch.

Zak: 1:10:56

oh man. I, I honestly, I feel awful for

Gene: 1:10:59

So the game

Zak: 1:11:00

really pressured. They were

Gene: 1:11:01

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it was in the end that was a good game and I think the next witcher they're working on is gonna be really

Zak: 1:11:07

Yeah. Yeah. I haven't even played The Witcher. I'm,

Gene: 1:11:10

Looking forward to all that stuff. But yeah, a lot of other stuff I play is like, simulation stuff like KAL two is about to come out. I've, I've played Kurbo for years.

Zak: 1:11:20

Kble Space program.

Gene: 1:11:22

Yep. Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:11:23

Yeah, man, that game, I

Gene: 1:11:25

where you can design your own rockets from all kinds of parts. And then,

Zak: 1:11:29

I saw the trailer for that at somewhere. They, they've updated that game constantly too.

Gene: 1:11:34

yeah, it's been, it came out originally seven or eight years ago and it's been updated nonstop since then. But the big thing isn't even the, the company that makes it, it's just got the biggest modding community ever.

Zak: 1:11:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember

Gene: 1:11:47

insane what kind of mods are out there. And it literally, like, I've got all the realism mods running so that it's the real earth, it's the real solar system, it's real, sizes and real physics and everything, and just makes it 10 times harder than the original game that they put out, which teaches you all the basics that you need to know if you wanna do

Zak: 1:12:11

isn't

Gene: 1:12:12

real

Zak: 1:12:12

space, space things.

Gene: 1:12:14

Yeah. Well, yeah. Space things real, real like, what's the word I'm thinking of? Well, yeah. Rocketry, but it's, it's orbital mechanics is the word I was thinking of.

Zak: 1:12:22

okay, okay. Okay. Yeah. Isn't that, but you know, like you could give that to a kid and they'd be able to figure it out

Gene: 1:12:30

Yeah. They sell, they sell a school version of that game that has a bunch of training material that can be integrated into classes.

Zak: 1:12:37

But, but you give it to a sixth grader and they, they're probably gonna end up being better than you at the game. Like

Gene: 1:12:43

that very much.

Zak: 1:12:44

you think you're, you think you're okay. Okay. Okay. I guess, I guess you're really g I'm just kidding.

Gene: 1:12:51

thousands and thousands of hours. And I wrote some mods.

Zak: 1:12:54

okay. Okay. Yeah, no, I'm sure that you have a great basis, but you, but you kind of know what I'm getting at as

Gene: 1:12:59

Yeah. It's, it's one of those games with a very steep learning curve though, is you kind of like, a lot of people, I think lose interest when they're, when they can't leave the atmosphere. Like

Zak: 1:13:11

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 1:13:13

and they try and try and nothing like, they just don't have enough to leave. And that's, that's why I love that saying that Musk has been re speeding, which is, space is really hard and it's totally true.

Zak: 1:13:26

space is not easy. It's not an easy thing. I'm gonna pull up my friend who I know has a shit ton of hours on that game. Let's see, three months ago. Yeah. This guy got a girlfriend, apparently.

Gene: 1:13:38

Okay, so

Zak: 1:13:40

but,

Gene: 1:13:41

this dead air we got in the middle of the podcast? You playing with your phone? Is that what it was?

Zak: 1:13:45

no, are you talking about me?

Gene: 1:13:47

Yeah.

Zak: 1:13:48

Oh, no. I, I just opened up steam to see how many hours my,

Gene: 1:13:52

Oh,

Zak: 1:13:52

my friend has on Oh man. Does it not even say how many? I know he has like a metric fucked ton of hours on this game.

Gene: 1:14:01

on kl.

Zak: 1:14:02

On Kurbo? Yeah. Is it on Steam?

Gene: 1:14:04

I think I've got 4,000 hours in Kal

Zak: 1:14:07

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this

Gene: 1:14:08

around there.

Zak: 1:14:09

this could he played

Gene: 1:14:11

And then Kurbo two's supposed to be coming out next quarter, I believe they said.

Zak: 1:14:15

Oh, really?

Gene: 1:14:16

So it's pretty close to coming out. And then the whole wanting thing, I'll just restart again.

Zak: 1:14:21

Yeah,

Gene: 1:14:22

then I got a game. You're probably gonna laugh at that. I, I used to play, I haven't really played it in probably two years, but I used to use Play it a lot, which is Farm Sim.

Zak: 1:14:31

Farm Sum.

Gene: 1:14:32

Yeah. We got hundreds and hundreds of licensed tractor products and all the tra all the farm gear, everything. Planters, harvesters, all that crap. It's just very relaxing. Single player. You could be watching a movie while you're doing it. You,

Zak: 1:14:49

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Gene: 1:14:50

you're, you're like running a combine eating corn,

Zak: 1:14:54

Wait, gimme like two seconds. My,

Gene: 1:14:56

or whatever.

Zak: 1:14:57

Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like American truck, American truck simulator while you got a beer in your hand. Yeah.

Gene: 1:15:04

e Exactly. Exactly. And I, I do, I do have truck sim as well. I haven't really been playing it much lately,

Zak: 1:15:11

Uhhuh

Gene: 1:15:12

did play a little bit when they released Texas. Texas is finally out, so it was kind of fun driving around in, in American Truck Sim to, places that I've actually been

Zak: 1:15:22

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, yeah. Oh my God. I, I, I, I love Truck Sim every time I remember that. I own it. I'm, I'm on it. I was, so if we go way back to what I was talking about, the reason why I brought up Ludwig is cause he really got his start in the melee scene, like Super Smash Melee, which has had probably one of the most potent, I it would be the word or consistent fan bases ever.

Gene: 1:15:55

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:15:57

And, that's like You can download the simulator, which Nintendo might even just take down this podcast for me even saying that. But you know, it's a very, I'm just, I'm just

Gene: 1:16:08

they don't give a shit. But it, it's a, but that's what I mean, that's kinda what I refer to as far as like, games that are just not that interesting to me. It's like,

Zak: 1:16:17

Oh my God. Dude.

Gene: 1:16:19

for the, the coolest graphics, the highest res, the, the most life-like experience.

Zak: 1:16:27

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 1:16:28

So, I mean, I played Mario Brothers in arcades back in the late eighties,

Zak: 1:16:33

Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:16:34

nineties, whatever it was, bowling alleys, but it was and it was fun at the time, but we didn't, like, we didn't have all the cool shit we have now. Like star citizen,

Zak: 1:16:43

yeah, yeah. Exactly. Well, what I was gonna say is we

Gene: 1:16:47

your hands on the microphone. Don't do that.

Zak: 1:16:50

I wasn't, I was actually typing. I know

Gene: 1:16:51

Okay. Now don't do that either.

Zak: 1:16:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. I

Gene: 1:16:54

That was very loud.

Zak: 1:16:55

I know I'm te that actually didn't happen. I never did that. But so this game came out in 2001, 2002 Melee. And it has consistently been, it's been, it's honestly kind of beautiful because people will bring their, their, I think it's Game Cube or man, I forgot what people mostly play it on,

Gene: 1:17:16

the old Nintendo Cube. Yeah.

Zak: 1:17:18

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But they'll, no, they lug a different system. I forgot which one it is, but they'll lug their systems. They'll drive 500, 600 miles just to go and meet up and play with other

Gene: 1:17:30

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:17:31

And, and, and they've been doing that for 20 years. And it's been one of the most unsupported communities from Nintendo, even though the player base is so, so, so big. They've made like four games post this game. But people love melee. Like melee is melees the shit. And anyway, incredibly complex game. Like the, the, the best players in the world. Like, they're still the best. A lot of'em, there's this guy Mango, it's a whole long story, but he did, at the chess, boxing thing, kind of what he started it off with was, was Melee boxing. So he got two people to play like a round of melee and then box, and then a round of melee and then box. And whoever did like best of three or whatever would win. But Melee, the community has been so, so, so strong with it, even though Nintendo's just Nintendo's the most fucked company ever. They're really awful. But,

Gene: 1:18:31

They've done a lot of really stupid shit over the years.

Zak: 1:18:34

you, if you get into this lore, man, like, it goes deep with how, like, recently there's this huge thing where they, they fucked over everyone in the melee scene, even though it's just like a game out of love.

Gene: 1:18:47

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:18:48

people, like, like, you just, it's probably the smelliest room you'll ever walk into. It's like worse than a walking into like a, like a card shop where everyone's playing magic. It's like, or I, I think War Hammer would probably be worse smelling. But

Gene: 1:19:01

Oh man. Magic The Gathering. Yeah.

Zak: 1:19:03

Still

Gene: 1:19:03

Yeah. I, and I've never gotten into any of that cart game stuff. I know a lot of people aren't really into that. I just, I mean, I kind of get it. It's like you, you got your imagination, you got the cards are kind of

Zak: 1:19:16

Oh man. Nah, that's not even the most fun, honestly, the most fun part about that entire thing. I, cuz I used to be super into magic. It's kind of like chess, it's kind of like chess. It's kind of like chess.

Gene: 1:19:28

I've heard people say that. I just, just never got interested enough to even try it.

Zak: 1:19:32

So, yeah. Yeah. No, I feel like you would, you would, I feel like you would be more of a war hammer guy for sure. Or d not, not D and d war.

Gene: 1:19:40

I just, I don't know. I mean, I

Zak: 1:19:42

You never got into models or anything

Gene: 1:19:45

no. Nope.

Zak: 1:19:46

that surprises me, honestly. Yeah. You're more of a gamer your whole life. But anyway, the

Gene: 1:19:53

Yeah. I mean, I've been, I've enjoyed computer games and different arcade games, but I, I don't know, I've just never got into that stuff. I did a d and d a number of times in my life. Like I've been invited to, be participate in games, but, and it was fun, but the fun aspect, just hanging out with

Zak: 1:20:10

with your buddies and being stupid little

Gene: 1:20:12

That was really, yeah. That was, that was about it. I mean, it's like, I, I remember were doing like a Star Trek, d and d kind of thing back in the nineties.

Zak: 1:20:22

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 1:20:23

And I,

Zak: 1:20:24

Oh, I, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 1:20:26

I, I told the, the dungeon master guy that, you know, and then I, I typed in the formula into the computer keyboard and he's like, oh, but there are no keyboards. You, the computer is verbal only. I'm like, well, that's horribly inefficient. That's, that's totally not gonna happen in the future. I mean, sure, you can say basic things to the computer, but you're not gonna be wanting to freaking say a formula in the proper order without looking at it on screen. That's

Zak: 1:20:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 1:20:53

get, I didn't get re-invited back to that.

Zak: 1:20:55

yeah. No, I bet they didn't like that

Gene: 1:20:57

No, they, they snoop,

Zak: 1:20:59

You would be surprised.

Gene: 1:21:01

to our yeah. Uhhuh.

Zak: 1:21:04

You would be surprised though. I mean, well, maybe you wouldn't be, I don't, you said that you've played a couple d and d things, but that shit, when that, when that kind of thing happens, it is always the funniest, like you just have so much fun. Just like, because if you have a

Gene: 1:21:22

had fun. I had fun. I think that the other people were fine with too, but I think the Dungeon Masters just pissed off.

Zak: 1:21:28

yeah. Yeah.

Gene: 1:21:29

I, I've done that a few times. I've pissed off a number of Dungeon Masters over the

Zak: 1:21:32

yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:21:33

have that ability pretty easily.

Zak: 1:21:35

you're a little too logical sometimes,

Gene: 1:21:37

I am, I am, I, I tend to bring up things that aren't just simple, like, okay, you gotta leave your, your logic and beliefs at the door and when you come in, but just inconsistencies, like, I'll bring up inconsistencies in what they're doing. It's like, wait a minute. What you told us 35 minutes ago is contradictory to this. What the hell?

Zak: 1:21:57

And then they're like, oh, there is a

Gene: 1:22:00

nobody likes

Zak: 1:22:01

walk out of right now. Yeah, exactly. No, I I used to go to Astro camp which was like, like, I mean, it was the nerd camp, but the instructors there, like

Gene: 1:22:15

And what was the, like, what, what kind of stuff did you guys do?

Zak: 1:22:18

could do whatever you wanted that you would like ch it was kind of like picking an elective or like a major kind of, so you would choose one thing that you would want to do. I don't remember even what I did mostly, but you could do like rocketry, 3D printing. I, I know I did 3D printing. I th I definitely did some rocketry. But you could do like the advanced, or, and you could do they had this one space game, you might actually know it. Old, old. It's not super old. Imagine like Eve, but like, there's like six people on a ship old doing individual things. And

Gene: 1:22:56

Trek thing.

Zak: 1:22:58

it wasn't Star

Gene: 1:22:59

I'm pretty sure it was Star Trek.

Zak: 1:23:01

No. The, I I know, I know that this one wasn't Star Trek. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you remember any other games like that, you'll, it'll probably be exact, but you would have, it would, it would be like 20, or not 20, but like 12 people or 10, 12 people in a room. And like, you would have two teams and they're, everybody's communicating with one eno with one another. And you're on like 2002 like PCs, cuz

Gene: 1:23:29

Yeah, that wouldn't have been Star Trek. Hmm.

Zak: 1:23:32

I don't remember what it

Gene: 1:23:33

But speaking of Eve, I did play Eve for

Zak: 1:23:35

I, I, I would figure that you would've been a Big Eve guy or,

Gene: 1:23:39

very well on Eve. I was a trillionaire. Well, no, not real money, just eve money, but but that kind of ended for two things. One is I, I owned the most expensive ship in the game and well, I, I mean, I didn't, I grinded for it, but the, the equivalent value of that was about 2,500 bucks.

Zak: 1:24:03

only 2,500.

Gene: 1:24:05

yeah. Yeah. Back, back then.

Zak: 1:24:07

Oh, okay, okay, okay,

Gene: 1:24:09

this is, this is like 2007, eight, right

Zak: 1:24:12

yeah. I didn't even know that that game was that old for the

Gene: 1:24:16

Oh eight. That game came out in 2003.

Zak: 1:24:18

Yeah. Yeah. That shit is

Gene: 1:24:21

so

Zak: 1:24:21

And it's still alive.

Gene: 1:24:23

2000. Yeah, it is. I know. It's crazy. But yeah, I stopped playing it, I guess in 2008 or nine, but yeah, when I got, when I had that ship yanked by guys that did a great job, just like

Zak: 1:24:35

they fucked you.

Gene: 1:24:36

they totally fucked me, but, but it was like they, they figured out when I'm usually online

Zak: 1:24:42

Oh, yep.

Gene: 1:24:43

and where I usually fly to, and then one day, all of a sudden there's like 70 people that showed up, because

Zak: 1:24:52

Oh,

Gene: 1:24:52

typically you don't fly these ships solo. Right. But

Zak: 1:24:55

Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is like your driving, like your fucking Lamborghini and like Atlanta. Yeah,

Gene: 1:25:01

yeah, it's, it's well beyond that. I mean, this is not, this was not a Lamborghini, this is like driving a, a the Rolls Royce that Elvis used to drive in,

Zak: 1:25:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, like, like the James Bond car or something like that? Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:25:16

And they ended up yanking me and then my connection dropped

Zak: 1:25:20

Oh, no.

Gene: 1:25:22

back on because that, one of the things that Eve really sucked at back then was when you had a large number of people you hoped to God you didn't disconnect, because if you did, you may not get the connection back up again.

Zak: 1:25:34

Oh man. So, so basically they ki they kind of like, I don't know if you ever

Gene: 1:25:39

they killed an empty ship effectively.

Zak: 1:25:42

Well, they pretty much, they, they overloaded the server

Gene: 1:25:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Zak: 1:25:47

I don't know if you ever used to play Halo. I wasn't even around during this point, but there used to be what was it, A lag switch where you would switch it? Yep, yep. Feels very similar to

Gene: 1:25:58

Exactly. And, and so by the time I got on, I logged in to see my ship blown up and, and myself dead, which really sucked. But then the part that really pissed me off and did more to make me quit the game was all the people that were like in my corporation and my alliance were like, nobody was feeling bad for me. Everybody was like, well, what the fuck were you thinking? You shouldn't have been doing this? I'm like, well, fuck you, dude. I just lost something that took four years to get

Zak: 1:26:25

to grind. Yeah.

Gene: 1:26:27

telling me, oh, well, too bad. You're an idiot. Thank you. The other guys, the guys that came out and killed me, they were donating money to me because they were like, Hey, had a blast. It was fun. I know it sucks for you. Here's some.

Zak: 1:26:39

yeah. Yeah.

Gene: 1:26:41

like, Jesus, I'm in the wrong fucking group. I got the bad guys

Zak: 1:26:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:26:47

me, here's some cash, cuz we know it sucks. And I got my guys saying, well, you're an idiot. So, so I pretty much became a just total pirate after that. That was the, that was a big switch.

Zak: 1:26:59

Hey, you know what? You know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So much more fun doing that shit, man.

Gene: 1:27:04

Eh, for a while

Zak: 1:27:05

you reminded me that that sounds a lot like, this is much smaller scale, but like rust, like that

Gene: 1:27:11

Oh, yeah, yeah,

Zak: 1:27:12

under rust,

Gene: 1:27:12

played Russ for a little while.

Zak: 1:27:14

I feel like Yeah. Yeah. It's not as complex as arc or anything like

Gene: 1:27:18

No, I mean, it's all about building your, your triangle next to a square and then it's,

Zak: 1:27:23

and then fucking shit, and then stealing everyone else's stuff. Oh man. It's so funny, man. Gimme one second. My stupid ass just sat right on my headphones. I gotta give me two seconds. Oh, man. Oh, nevermind. Give me a second.

Gene: 1:27:41

Okay.

Zak: 1:27:42

I kind of bent them. Not, not my bear dynamics. Can't do that to my babies anyway. Hello?

Gene: 1:27:51

would you sit on your headphones?

Zak: 1:27:52

Because I didn't realize that I put them there.

Gene: 1:27:56

Put'em down in the seat?

Zak: 1:27:57

Yeah. I'm just an

Gene: 1:27:58

Yeah. You should always hang those up.

Zak: 1:28:00

Yep.

Gene: 1:28:02

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:28:03

have just learned that lesson.

Gene: 1:28:05

There you go. You won't ever repeat it.

Zak: 1:28:08

I probably

Gene: 1:28:09

All right. Enough about gaming. Let's, let's cover some topics

Zak: 1:28:13

Important. Important topics. Important

Gene: 1:28:15

I don't know about important game's. Pretty important.

Zak: 1:28:17

Oh wait. Yeah. Yeah, we can do that. Can I, can I do one more thing about gaming

Gene: 1:28:23

Okay. Go for it real quick

Zak: 1:28:25

it's super quick? Well, a, I just looked up 33, 300 30,000. in Eve anyway was the biggest battle ever or whatever. B I don't know how much you pay attention to it, but Counterstrike, global offensive skins trading probably one of the most interesting things to just be paying attention to. Actually Incredible, most of the time. Very stable, very consistently uprising skin's market. It's, it's really fun to pay attention to it because it's like stocks ex pretty much, cuz you, can sell, trade, whatever. Chinese collectors are going crazy. Although something happened in China, I don't remember what it is. But right now, skins are definitely gonna take a little bit of a hit.

Gene: 1:29:07

kind of one of the things I like about star citizens as well, is there's almost like a metagame for the, the ships and all the other crap other than spaceships as well, because a lot of that stuff is limited. And so there's a total secondary market for everything.

Zak: 1:29:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I love that shit, man. It's always it. CS Go is definitely the creator of it. I mean, I used to gamble when I was in like seventh or eighth grade. I actually, this is pretty interesting. If you look up Mick Skillet I didn't know this for the longest time, but I used to watch him. He was one of the biggest CS Go Skins people. And it turned out he had a very deep voice. I was like, oh, this guy's in college or whatever. It turned out he went to my high school

Gene: 1:29:52

way. That's hilarious.

Zak: 1:29:54

well, this story isn't, doesn't end up too hilarious, but he actually so he was probably in 10th, 11th, 12th grade. I don't remember when it was, but he bought McLaren. He had, he, he was heavily invested in Bitcoin crypto. I'm pretty sure I, I don't know how many people really know what exactly he was invested in, but he ran a lot of, like these gambling sites or like skins, trading sites. He made a lot of videos. But something, oh, I think one of I something got like trade banned or something. Like something happened. And I don't know exactly what it was because I think there's a lot of other shit stacking on top. And he was a manic depressive and he he ended up driving his McLaren through an elementary school, like just like the parking lot, but like broke through the gates. And then we don't, no one really knows if this was like entirely on purpose, but there's this one turn, I think it's on the 8 0 5. It's like an exit. And it, it, and it, you can easily confuse it with an on-ramp, but he was driving along the highway, 120 miles an hour face first collision with a mom and like her two, three kids,

Gene: 1:31:06

Ooh, that's horrible.

Zak: 1:31:07

Blew'em all up. Killed them instantly. Crazy fucking story, man.

Gene: 1:31:12

Wow. Yeah. Let's talk about drugs.

Zak: 1:31:14

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it. I, that's, that's another thing. So it's it's games he had over like a million dollars in skins, by the way, like, probably way more than that,

Gene: 1:31:24

Yeah. At that age, you're, you're not well equipped to

Zak: 1:31:28

he, yeah, he dropped out his second semester, senior year he dropped out. But he, he was like two grades above me. He was a really sweet kid. He was on my basketball team, but c team basketball. Anyway, drugs.

Gene: 1:31:41

yeah. Do you think that people your age or around your age, let's just say and it's kind of a biased question. I mean, everyone's gonna have a different perspective, but do you think drug use is higher, lower, or about the same as people of that age group have always done?

Zak: 1:31:58

So I think that me answering this question is a little difficult because I wasn't alive when you were alive,

Gene: 1:32:06

Right. No, I know. That's why I said it's biased because everyone's gonna only have their own perspective. So based on what you think was happening before you were alive or what you think is gonna happen after do you think it's about the same, more or less?

Zak: 1:32:19

Far more in incredibly, incredibly higher and it's younger. That's, that is the scarier thing. I don't know. Yeah. So, so let me give you kind of the explanation, because every time I talk to younger kids about it, I'm just like, ho what? But you know, my dad used to tell me kids were smoking cigarettes when they were like four or six. That's very, very different than

Gene: 1:32:44

his friends. I never knew anybody that smoke cigarettes

Zak: 1:32:47

Yeah, well, he is Eagle Lake, like

Gene: 1:32:49

Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah,

Zak: 1:32:51

hick, hickville like on the playground, whatever. That's, that's, so that's not, obviously not the case because it, that was more like the parents were allowing that to happen. But one thing I will tell you, is kids are each year, I, I would say every one to four years. And I believe that everything is accelerating at an exponential rate, just period right now. Especially with my generation, the kids younger. The year the kids are starting to do drugs, gets younger and younger and younger and younger. So right now, I would bet that fourth graders are trying weed for the first time.

Gene: 1:33:33

Graders.

Zak: 1:33:34

fourth, fourth graders a accessibility, really easy. But TikTok, right? Like oldest accessible social media that these kids are consuming and they're thinking that it's okay. I mean, it's the same thing with QAN on. It's like, oh, this one person did it, so it's okay. Oh, now I know a friend who did it, so now it's really okay. And, and so they'll start the weed I think is typically number one. Like, I don't think that they're drinking, but you know, it's easy to get your hands on a cart, like a pen, whatever, and, and hit a, hit a dab at school. Like, I mean, I, the, the reason why I say fourth grade is cuz I just have heard of it before. And every single time I talk to a kid, I'll ask him, I'll be like, like, are kids smoking weed around you? And like, this is like an eighth grader going into ninth grade. And they're like, yeah, like I had to stop hanging out with all my friends cuz like in seventh grade they just started smoking weed all the time. And I'm like, what the fuck? And like, this isn't the same weed. I can go on a whole rant about this too, but it's not weed, it's not the same weed that, you would've smoked back in fucking the eighties or the nineties. Even the early two thousands. It's, it, they're smoking carts are smoking highly potentiated weed, it's like 96%. It's like, and it's fake, most likely. Actually, I don't know what the fake cart situation is anymore. I used to smoke fake carts when I was like younger, but that was before I got really bad.

Gene: 1:35:09

It's easy enough to get that younger and younger generations are doing it.

Zak: 1:35:13

it. Exactly. But the thing that that will trigger is I think that with prescriptions it can go anyway. That's more of an at home thing. That's more of a private life thing. But kids are gonna be trying, I know that this is happening as well. Like me and my friends in our grade, I went to a pretty like private school. Like we didn't, like kids were smoking weed before us. Like I didn't even know that kids were smoking weed when they were whatever. But like, me and my friends, like we experimented with psychedelics before anyone else. Like we were, we, I, I, again, I'm a little gatekeeper. Like I, I love finding shit before other people. So like, we were doing, but we weren't doing anything heavily cuz we're.

Gene: 1:36:04

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:36:05

I, I had like one friend who's very, he is like Case Western. He, he was Kum loud, Kum Lak, but he, he, he was like a daily pot smoker since he was like in ninth or 10th grade. But like some ki some kids can deal with that. Like me, my brain, my dad, like, I, I can, I, I definitely know how to do it better, but I, when I first tried weed, I had a complete psychosis, whatever, bad episode, similar to what my dad did, except I'm way cooler than him

Gene: 1:36:36

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:36:37

I kind of, I

Gene: 1:36:39

Yeah. So do you think then with more people smoking weed and kind of being acceptable earlier and earlier in school, is that make people then want to try more harsh drugs?

Zak: 1:36:52

So what, so sorry. I don't think I finished my thought. that's on me. I what I'm saying is that kids are doing psychedelics earlier now. They're trying shrooms earlier. But I will say, I think it's completely cultural and it's very dependent on the area that you're in. Cuz if you're in an area where like kids are doing, press pills, whatever, although the, honestly, kids are getting smarter now, so they're, they're smoking weed. I think weed is gonna start having a more and more negative connotation again, which is fucking good because,

Gene: 1:37:24

think? Okay.

Zak: 1:37:26

oh, I, I almost know, I, like, I've

Gene: 1:37:29

More and more states are legalizing it.

Zak: 1:37:31

exactly, but the, what's crazy is in Colorado, the highest percent THC I'll find is like 24 to 26, 28, like maybe a 30 or 32. But like compared to California, if you look for weed, you can't find anything below 34% most of the

Gene: 1:37:52

Oh, really? Okay.

Zak: 1:37:54

it is it, this isn't, it's not weed, it's not the same plant. And like

Gene: 1:37:58

Yeah. Yeah.

Zak: 1:37:59

if I'm gonna smoke weed, I would much rather smoke Colorado weed, cuz like, it's not, it hasn't been overtaken by capitalism yet. To the same degree. Like there's more love put into it. They also just legalize shrooms entirely, which is pretty cool. But yeah. Anyway, I

Gene: 1:38:14

Are people smoking it or are they eating it?

Zak: 1:38:17

like kids, it's carts, it's old pens, baby. It's,

Gene: 1:38:21

Well,

Zak: 1:38:22

go into the bathroom

Gene: 1:38:23

whatever, but, but it's, versus edibles

Zak: 1:38:26

Smoking.

Gene: 1:38:27

smoking.

Zak: 1:38:28

Smoking, I think, I think edibles are an definitely older thing.

Gene: 1:38:33

Okay.

Zak: 1:38:33

Like

Gene: 1:38:34

So you kids aren't eating gummy bears. Got it.

Zak: 1:38:37

no, surprisingly not. The first time I did it, I, I, I tried, I took an edible, but that was like a decision. I, but

Gene: 1:38:44

Yeah. That's, that's interesting. Go. One of the things, so

Zak: 1:38:47

because yeah, yeah, that's all bullshit. Like all the, all the advertising to kids. Like kids aren't eating. They know what it's weed. Like they're, they're hitting the vape. They're hitting the vape. That's crazy. Potentiated. And, and also the one thing I was gonna say is a kids are probably going through similar psychosis, but I've seen the way that weed fucks people up. Weed. Weed is not a safe drug. It's incredibly psychologically addictive. I've seen it be incredibly physically addictive. And also it, it is not good for your brain. It's really bad. Daily smo. I think I honestly, because I believe like smoking once or twice a week, I think it's actually can be incredibly beneficial. But you have to know what you're smoking, whatever, and it can have lasting positive effects. But like these kids are, going through half of a gram cart of 90% THC weed.

Gene: 1:39:44

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:39:46

That is not like, like if you would've done that in the eighties, you would've been the king. But like, kids won't even get high off of that. Anyway, what were you

Gene: 1:39:56

yeah. No, I was gonna say, I know your dad's got negative reactions to thc and I've got no reactions or virtually no reactions. One thing I I found out is just I don't, like it doesn't do anything.

Zak: 1:40:09

You seem like you would be up. Yeah. I, I feel like you would be a big pot guy if you, sorry

Gene: 1:40:14

No, no, not really. I'm, I've just, I, so I actually did an experiment scientifically like two or three years ago.

Zak: 1:40:23

Yeah.

Gene: 1:40:23

I was up in, in Washington State and cuz it's not legal here in Texas, but I was up in Washington State and I bought a whole bunch of edibles.

Zak: 1:40:33

This is very scientific, it sounds.

Gene: 1:40:34

yeah, it is because it's, they've, they've got a, an exact amount of micrograms of t h D in there. And then I did a, every day I upped, I doubled the dosage

Zak: 1:40:49

Yeah.

Gene: 1:40:50

and I got, it wasn't an, I started feeling something, at least

Zak: 1:40:56

Uhhuh.

Gene: 1:40:57

on the, I think fifth day

Zak: 1:41:00

Yeah,

Gene: 1:41:00

where the dosage was basically a whole box of the highest vote in Seattle Bulls that they.

Zak: 1:41:08

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 1:41:09

And so yeah, it does do something eventually. I'm a completely immune from it, but it's, it's crazy high now also that Novocaine doesn't work on me.

Zak: 1:41:19

oh. That's

Gene: 1:41:20

so Novocaine is another thing that, so if I go to the dentist, they can't use Novocaine. They have to use one of the other similar kind of stuff they have and

Zak: 1:41:31

get the lidocaine or

Gene: 1:41:32

yeah, it's basically, I'm, I'm in about like 4% of the population that just has you could either call it high tolerance or just low response

Zak: 1:41:41

Uhhuh,

Gene: 1:41:42

to a number of different drugs.

Zak: 1:41:45

and I'll tell you something right now. So with the weed thing, did you smoke it at all?

Gene: 1:41:49

I mean I've, I've smoked it when people passed it around, but it never did anything for me. I was the only, like, I'll give you an example. This is true story. I was in Vegas with a friend of mine who was on pen and teller show, he's a magician.

Zak: 1:42:00

Okay. Okay. He actually pen and teller?

Gene: 1:42:03

yeah, he was on the show, he was on pen and teller,

Zak: 1:42:05

Oh, he was like, okay. Okay,

Gene: 1:42:07

he was on their show where they like review magics acts and stuff.

Zak: 1:42:10

I see, I see.

Gene: 1:42:11

And so we, we went to dinner afterwards and he wanted to, smoke up and a couple other people went and I thought, oh, you know what the hell, I mean, I'm in a kind of a, a friendly, happy mood

Zak: 1:42:26

Yeah. You're, you're jolly.

Gene: 1:42:27

so we're sitting in the rental car and it was almost like a scene out of Chichen Chong

Zak: 1:42:32

This is

Gene: 1:42:33

where the, you could not see out the windows of this rental

Zak: 1:42:37

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 1:42:38

because there's four people puffing away, Monkey inside this thing. And I'm talking like actual, rolled up, not vape.

Zak: 1:42:46

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:42:48

burning

Zak: 1:42:48

yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're smoking joints or

Gene: 1:42:51

and it like you, literally when we open the door up, there's just a cloud billowing of hot smoke and smell coming out. So we get out, we get back to sit down dinner, and these guys are all like, happy woozy. And I'm like, yep. Should the no on me nothing. I got nothing here. So I, and I've done that a number of times. I've tried smoking, like there's nothing in, the amount of t HC that you need in order for me to feel something. You can't do it with something that's actually burning. It has to be concentrated like in a edible.

Zak: 1:43:28

Okay, so I'm a, I'm gonna tell you a few things. Cause I, I do know this firsthand. Most people I know. So there's one thing, a some people will never feel an edible or they, they'll be like, you, you, they have to take like literally a gram to feel anything, which is insane. Like, I, I, the first time I took tw, I, I took way too many. I took like 20 to 24 milligrams. I don't even know. It probably ended up being like 28. And I mean, I, I was tripping balls. I was tripping balls. I mean, like, I, I freaked out on a woman on the elevator. It's, it's a great story,

Gene: 1:44:07

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:44:08

but it was probably the most terrifying experience of my

Gene: 1:44:10

Or it'll become better over time too. I can tell

Zak: 1:44:12

Oh, oh my God. Yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's my favorite story to tell, but yeah, that's me. But I know people who will never, ever, ever feel inedible. But here's the other thing is when you're smoking it, I know so many people who smoke weed once and they're like, I don't feel it. I don't feel it. And I've had, I, I, I actually have had a friend with who's had a very similar situation to you, and all of a sudden he just, after smoking it, like over, over a couple months, every once in a while he started feeling it, like it hit him. Like, like it took him by surprise. So weed is a really, is a really interesting drug.

Gene: 1:44:49

Yeah. You never, you never know. It's just, at this stage in my life, I've tried enough times to know that there is just, there's no point.

Zak: 1:44:58

yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if you ever,

Gene: 1:44:59

I'm, I'm getting, I'm getting like, less into doing weird shit the older I get. I, like, I stopped drinking. I didn't drink at all last year, so my, my goal was just to not drink for a

Zak: 1:45:10

yeah.

Gene: 1:45:11

Well, we're on the eighth of, and I, it's not like I have this deep burning desire. Oh, now the year's over I go drink. I probably will, but I haven't yet. I haven't gotten around to drinking yet this year.

Zak: 1:45:22

Good on you, man. Fuck alcohol. I think alcohol is the most, Dan, I think man, I

Gene: 1:45:27

Alcohol is very interesting. I just watched a documentary just the other day that talked about how it is most likely, the thing that separated us from the great apes

Zak: 1:45:38

really?

Gene: 1:45:39

we are

Zak: 1:45:40

wasn't psilocybin.

Gene: 1:45:41

our, and no stilly is totally a part of it. Totally a part of it. But or I shouldn't say psilocybin that fungus is definitely a

Zak: 1:45:48

yeah, yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:45:48

but that we were, the, the ancestors I don't want to call us monkeys, but you know what I mean, like, our pre-human ancestors were the ones that developed a tolerance to alcohol, which allowed us to to eat basically rotting fruit and stuff

Zak: 1:46:12

Yeah.

Gene: 1:46:13

in the forests and not get sick from them. And it's interesting stuff, man. I'm telling you, if you look at some of this,

Zak: 1:46:22

Well keep going. I'll tell you my, my alcohol theory in a second.

Gene: 1:46:26

Well, I, I, I think there's a lot to it because really a fruit that that gets infected with yeast is gonna be generating alcohol. I just literally had, this is so stupid. I had a container of pickles I bought

Zak: 1:46:40

Oh

Gene: 1:46:41

that I, I ate like half of'em, put'em back in the fridge, then forgot about

Zak: 1:46:45

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Gene: 1:46:46

and about a week and a half later, these pickles, I, I like ate one. And then I stopped because these pickles that were fresh pickles started tasting, or I shouldn't say pickles, sorry, cucumbers. Right. I bought a, a thing of cucumbers that were precut,

Zak: 1:47:05

oh,

Gene: 1:47:05

salads or whatever, and I, I was just like, ate half a box and then put the rest in the fridge. After about a week and a half, these cucumbers started tasting like pickles. I'm like, what the fuck? This thing? And then clearly it, that's why I like, stopped eating, and I was like, oh, okay. This thing's gone bad. I just didn't realize

Zak: 1:47:21

Yeah. I biting into a weird cucumber is the weirdest

Gene: 1:47:25

uhhuh,

Zak: 1:47:26

on your mouth. There's something's. So it's very, yeah,

Gene: 1:47:29

was, it literally felt like it was carbonated,

Zak: 1:47:32

Yeah. That's

Gene: 1:47:33

Like you bite into it and it's like, there's carbonation in there, so it's pretty wild. But then I think that there's something interesting there, and, it's all theories, but I kinda like this theory.

Zak: 1:47:44

I'm about to give you some fun little theories

Gene: 1:47:46

All right?

Zak: 1:47:47

A, that there's certain plants, like an Uganda I know for a fact. So there's plants that monkeys and elephants will eat, and it gets them drunk.

Gene: 1:47:56

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:47:57

actually drunk, like they get fucked up. Monkeys actually will totally drink if

Gene: 1:48:00

Yeah. Yeah.

Zak: 1:48:01

they like getting fucked up. Like, I've seen videos of monkeys smoking weed, smoking the hookah. You, you gotta love that shit. That shit. It makes me laugh. But

Gene: 1:48:10

Well, my favorite is the orangutan driving a golf cart around the

Zak: 1:48:13

oh, I love that one. Yeah, that's a classic. But what I've really been realizing about alcohol and just because I don't drink either, I'm on, I'm on a lot of meds. I don't know how much of my backstory that, but

Gene: 1:48:26

Well, I know more than we're gonna talk about

Zak: 1:48:28

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I'll do, I'll do other things, but I won't drink. Yeah, I drink. I like, I can drink a quarter of a Corona and get fucked up on my meds. Like, it's, it's intense. And then I'm hungover. But the interesting thing about me when I'm hungover is i'll cuz I recently got diagnosed with a myriad of things and we're still trying to figure out exactly what the hell this is. But and of course my dad just comes out and tells me that he's been manic his whole life and whatever. But I have bipo, I have a version of bipolar and borderline personality

Gene: 1:49:02

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:49:03

which is completely hereditary. Like so many people in my family have it. Anyway, I don't know if that's information that we need to share about the dad, but I don't think he really gives a shit, frankly.

Gene: 1:49:15

You may not care. I may not care. Your dad may care.

Zak: 1:49:18

Yeah, it probably doesn't give a shit, honestly. But one thing that I do notice is I'll go into an incredibly depressive episode. I'll be the mo I, I'll want to kill myself. I'll, I'll feel whatever, and then all of a sudden I, this is typically how I go through my manic episodes anyway. Or my hypomanic is then I'll get a lot of energy, but I'll still want to kill myself. And then I'll be the happiest go-lucky person ever. And then I'll just crash. And that's over the course of four days and

Gene: 1:49:47

Well, that sounds like a typical person playing first person shooter game.

Zak: 1:49:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or fuck yeah. League of Legends.

Gene: 1:49:54

Yeah.

Zak: 1:49:55

The most interesting thing is watching people who aren't on meds, because I would think that that's a med thing who have these mental disorders similar to me. Like my friend just fucking flaked the shit out on me today. She didn't respond to me until like six or eight. I was waiting for old day and like flaked on me. But I I, but she went through this the other day where she went through the same exact phase that I do where she's depressed, whatever, and then she's fine. But then she drank like three or four days in a row after, after me being like, Jane, don't drink alcohol. Don't drink alcohol, don't do it. Don't do it. You're gonna end up like this again. You're gonna be texting me that you want to kill yourself. Like stop it, stop it, stop it. And of course she does it. Same thing with my ex. That's why, that's the reason why I broke up my, with my ex in a lot of ways is cuz she kept on doing it to herself. And I'm like, stop it. Stop it. But the thing with alcohol is, I mean, it's literally a spirit, right? And something that I've been exploring a lot recently, and I've been talking to my dad a lot about it to get into some brief philosophy type things, is I believe that Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all come from a sense of mania. Because this is something most people will see very similar things when they're manic. Like everyone gets manic, everyone gets intensely manic. And I'm sure that you've experienced it before, like you feel good as fuck when you're manic. Like everything feels good, everything is great. But to connect that with what you were initially talking about is, I do think that. alcohol in a lot of ways has a lot of psychedelic properties. And I don't think it's ma some, like for me, it can be when I am drunk because I will feel like I'm on some sort of, I'm so weird with alcohol, but like, it, it's the post it's afterwards. It's like something will enter people's bodies. And I do think that that makes a lot of sense to me is that it could have, I think it's, I think it's Western. I think alcohol is, is the sign of Western culture to me and religious culture because it makes you, it makes you susceptible to so much and it, it will gather you into thought groups because everyone's experiencing the same thing. And my dad and I were talking about how this is similar to like, we were talking about quantum theory and stuff like that, but I do think that everybody innately has some sort of connection to something and it's the univer, it's God, we'll just say God, which. very complex word, but you, God, as in however you interpret God, it is, it is something that everyone can experience. And it is something that everyone does experience. And the way that you connect with it can come in a myriad of different ways. And some people are it, some people are more connected to it, some people are less. And then you look at, like, I, I don't even know my dad was explaining it to me, so I'm gonna jumble and fuck this up. But if we do have some sort of quantum connection to some thing in the, in the universe like I would believe that there is a universal consciousness. There's one thing, and I believe that mania will connect us to that thing because it comes from within. Like if you look at Buddhism, like you're basically attempting to experience a state of mania. You're activating D M T that's naturally occurring, like old as she, this shit like it all, it, it, it connects really, really well. And I believe that alcohol is not only the most deadly fucking stupid ass. I hate alcohol. I want to banish it. I don't understand why it's even considered why it can be acceptable. But again, whole other thing, I think it sends people into manic states all the time. I, I see, I, like you see someone on a buzz and they're in that manic state and, and they'll stay in it for a couple days and they might not even notice.

Gene: 1:54:13

But you don't think other drugs do that?

Zak: 1:54:16

I think, so this is where for me, what this was a connection that I made when you mentioned all that is the reason why I said western culture is because maybe a lot of Western culture was kind of devised from alcohol purely or fermented things, right? Whereas you look at a lot of indigenous cultures and. If you take these indigenous cultures, drugs, you'll experience basically their religion. And that's, that's a different kind of consciousness. And it's not necessarily the universal consciousness if we're thinking about this in orbs and space, basically. Right. We got God. And that one's taken up a lot of space. And then you got like, you, you look at a lot of indigenous things, you look at peyote and you'll see the exact same imagery. I've never done peyote, but you know what I mean. Like, most people will see the same imagery as the natives did, and it just connects them. And they'll have the same thoughts. Like, people ex say that peyote is like a grandfather experience. And mushrooms, like a lot of people will see the same things. And it's dependent on what kind of mushroom you're taking. And there's so many regional ones, right,

Gene: 1:55:31

But that, that totally makes sense from a biological, scientific standpoint because similar drugs interact with your brain in similar ways, so you

Zak: 1:55:42

But so slightly differently. It, it feels like it's connected to something else though, in a, in a lot of different ways.

Gene: 1:55:49

Sure. But I, I think that when we're presented with things that we don't know and we haven't experienced in the past,

Zak: 1:55:58

Yep.

Gene: 1:55:59

try to find metaphorical

Zak: 1:56:02

meaning, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I, and I think, I think, since you can connect it scientifically, you can probably connect most of what I just said to neurological and chemical reactions within our

Gene: 1:56:16

yeah. I know it's depressing for a lot of people to think that their religious beliefs are actually rooted in chemistry. I don't think it's depressing, but a lot of people would. And so they're gonna really oppose. anybody proposing that theory? But I, I, I've, I've got my own thoughts on that. I, I've, I've definitely don't hold a typical opinion because I, I've gotten I think, a little softer on religion in general. Like, I understand where it plays into society,

Zak: 1:56:48

it's,

Gene: 1:56:49

but I'm still an atheist.

Zak: 1:56:51

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 1:56:52

Too much of a a guy that likes simulation games

Zak: 1:56:55

yeah, yeah, exactly. You're

Gene: 1:56:56

believe in pure emotion.

Zak: 1:57:00

Yeah. Yeah. Well, can I lay out something else for you? I'll try and take a shorter amount of time. So if you look at a lot of we'll just say the big four. So like, Judaism, Buddhism Christianity, and Islam. If you look at a lot of the religion I was listening to some audiobook about manifestation or something like that with my mom one day on a drive. But, Jesus, there's there's there's, there's these certain phrases that

Gene: 1:57:26

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 1:57:27

will provide you with a more direct link. But then, and you gotta remember that those phrases typically vibrate at a frequency of 432 hertz. So, oh, like, like what Buddhist do, which connects them more with the earth, with whatever they're trying to connect to to the universe. It, it's, it's like a direct link. And that's, and, and then you look at, Hebrew, like if you, if you listen to a rabbi chant, you're, you're, you're feeling that frequency, you're feeling it vibrate. And I would assume that, if

Gene: 1:58:04

Our rap music.

Zak: 1:58:07

Yeah. I mean, I mean, for real though, there's, there's a lot

Gene: 1:58:10

Well, and then something you, you'd, I'm sure don't know, I, I actually was a, a c o of a company called Holosync for a while which is a, a company that it was started by a guy that very early on found and worked with other people that found the same thing, a connection between different frequencies and different states of of brain activity.

Zak: 1:58:34

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Gene: 1:58:35

And, and so the way he described it is this was a shortcut to meditation.

Zak: 1:58:41

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 1:58:42

You can get into a meditative state, get into the or delta by just doing certain things, by calming your brain, calming your body. and people practice it, especially like in the East a lot.

Zak: 1:58:58

Yep.

Gene: 1:58:58

they achieved that. He was a typical westerner, so he wanted the quick and dirty version of that, but it actually worked. And so there were quite a few studies done that demonstrated that you can induce these states by creating certain frequencies in your ears.

Zak: 1:59:15

Yeah.

Gene: 1:59:17

And so he explained this whole process to me, and, I, I generally don't trust a lot of this woo stuff that like your dad gets into.

Zak: 1:59:26

Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:59:27

And, and so I'm usually the guy saying, yeah, it's bullshit.

Zak: 1:59:31

yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I'm, I'm, I'm like in between, yeah.

Gene: 1:59:35

yeah. And, and so I, I said, okay, well I, if you explain this to me technically so I understand it, then I, if I can replicate it, I believe in the scientific method, then I will be fully board with this

Zak: 1:59:48

Clearly you were fully on board with this stuff.

Gene: 1:59:51

yeah. Yeah. So he did, he kinda explained it, and then I actually used my own audio software. to do what he described without. So he didn't gimme any files or anything. And then I was able to create frequencies and it's ural stuff. So it's actually, it's kind of cool. It's actually creating a frequency that it's not playing,

Zak: 2:00:15

Oh,

Gene: 2:00:15

an interference pattern between multiple frequencies. And that interference pattern is purely in your brain. It's not,

Zak: 2:00:23

almost

Gene: 2:00:24

yeah. Yeah. It's, it is kind of like that, but if you imagine like one frequency in one ear and different frequency in the other ear, but you're adding both of those together in your brain, which creates a third frequency.

Zak: 2:00:36

Okay.

Gene: 2:00:38

And that's the basic concept. And then they did enough research to kind of fine tune what, what those frequencies are, how long to stay in them, when to go in and out of'em, to where it definitely helped you get into a certain meditative state very quickly, like within the matter of a minute or two, where it typically would take you, if you're practiced five minutes. And I used to do zen meditation. I, I did zen stuff for a while.

Zak: 2:01:07

okay.

Gene: 2:01:08

And so,

Zak: 2:01:09

It's very real, right?

Gene: 2:01:11

oh, it, it is, it is totally real. But again, to me it just more proof of the absence of a God because this, these are physical things that we do to our bodies to induce certain feelings.

Zak: 2:01:24

A hundred percent. What's that thing called, like happy or whatever? I don't remember what it is. It's like this thing you wear around your neck. I don't remember what it

Gene: 2:01:32

You got super quiet. Which

Zak: 2:01:34

Oh, I think it's called Happy or something like that. I don't remember what it is. It's like this thing you wear around your neck. I don't, I, it's like magnetic or something. I don't remember the whole thing, but just on the frequency thing so, okay, this is kind of like a short drug story, but cause as you probably know, I don't know how much you know about me in a lot of ways, but you probably know quite a bit. But like I said earlier, I, I experimented with some psychedelics when I was younger. I really haven't done them that much though, that's the thing. But I have experimented with them and not when I was younger, like two years ago, but God, I'm not that old. I think so one really interesting thing was I tried acid for the first time and we like had an Airbnb that we got in Julian, California, which is like up in the mountains, but it was like 40 acres for like 400 bucks. The thing is, is he didn't fucking tell us that Tom in the, I think his name was Tom, in the trailer next to us, was in the trailer next to us. Like, I thought that we were getting this whole thing for ourselves kind of deal. It was just like a small house, but there's like a vineyard and whatever. And one thing that was really interesting and that connects with everything that

Gene: 2:02:54

You gotta speak up, dude.

Zak: 2:02:55

sorry, sorry, sorry. Is that better?

Gene: 2:02:58

Yeah. Just get your mouth closer to the mic.

Zak: 2:03:00

Okay. Sorry. I think I leaned back and then, is that

Gene: 2:03:03

think that's what it sounded like. Yep.

Zak: 2:03:05

Okay. Sorry. I got, I got too comfortable apparently. so to reiterate, big, big crop of land. We had a lot of land. There's like a vineyard. There was like a fake manmade lake kind of thing, but like these trees, these fields, it was really pretty really fucking hot though. But we, we brought like acid and I didn't do that much. But one thing that happened that so I didn't know any of the things that I just told you about prior to this. It actually took me like about six months to realize what happened. But a, I felt incredibly in tune me. I, I, I, I used to describe me and my friend like this pri prior to this was, we're, we're watching, we're on the same channel, but we're watching a different show. Like our v our versions of reality are very different, but we've always liked the same music. We've always liked similar art. We've always liked similar things, and we feel the same things sometimes. I actually just was in Mexico with him, but he, he, he was, he was off his rocker. He had this rock name Fred that he like picked up and he was talking to, and like my other friend, like wore a hat backwards and was like acting like Fred. And he was talking about Fred and big pharma and shit. But he kept on running away. and about four seconds before he ran away, I felt the same, like energetic presence or whatever it was And it kept on calling him to like a certain area. Whereas for me, I just felt it and I knew he was about to do it. So I was the one standing and holding him most of the time. Or I would like even before he would start to run, because he would like time it, I would, I would just walk over and like block his way and he'd be like, how the fuck did, how did you know I was gonna do that anyway? That is irrelevant to what I was gonna say. So I ended up lining myself. And I had never done this before. I've done, I had done quite a bit of meditation, but I started doing the o and I started feeling connected with everything and I, and I had my hands in front of my, my, my chest in like a prayer like the prayer position and, or like the receiving position. And I just like started kind of aligning myself with certain it, it felt like I, I had to be sitting on a certain path and I don't, because like I said before, I have, I have Ooc D so I have intense Ooc d so I don't know if that part was O C D or not, but I felt like I just was in connection with everything and I was aligned with everything and I had aligned my chakras. I had never sat so straight in my life and I was just sitting there for two hours just like meditating and just going, oh. And I had never felt so connected with, with just so much Oh. At the same time. And I think like six months later when I realized that that was 432 Hertz like I had expected, which is really interesting because another time when. Did acid, I like held back my whole trip. That's a whole other story. But I remember the, the, like, the only visuals I got was I was looking at my popcorn ceiling and I saw like this symbol and I'm like, I don't know what fucking symbol that is. And then like later, like again, couple months later, or maybe it was a couple days, weeks, I don't remember. I looked up like, because it was bothering me, cuz I recognized it as some like Hindi or Buddhist symbol and It was the symbol for Om and I was just seeing it all over my ceiling. And this is a different trip, but basically I, what I realized is I was doing 432 hertz meditation, which is, the vibration, the, the frequency of the universe. And I did that entirely naturally, obviously with the help of psychedelic. But I, I think that just like now, piecing it all together, if I, I, I had the capability to understand kind of what was going on when it was happening because I, I, I'm, me and I researched the shit out of drugs. I researched the shit out of all this stuff and not to suck my dick. But I, it, it was genuinely, I think it's really helped my belief and helped me explain God to people and what God is and how are, are the word of God. Like just the word itself has this weird connotation when in reality, if you look at the initial religion of every single, like of the Big four, right? it's all the same thing. God is the same thing. They're almost all fundamentally the same. I would say Judaism is the most similar to Buddhism, and then Islam and Christianity are much closer together. But, every single religion's been thwarted with to hell other Buddhism's probably the least thwarted with. But it all is the same thing. It's, it all leads to the same exact place. And it's so, we just do that as human beings. We all, we all are so tied in together, and God, to

Gene: 2:08:35

Do you ever watch Battlestar

Zak: 2:08:37

I've watched all the, I've, I've, I've watched my dad's, made me watch a little bit of it. It's funny, I li I like watching it cuz of the little cuz of the spaceships. But sorry, I just ranted I gave you the most psychedelic rant ever. But

Gene: 2:08:53

Well, the reason I bring it up is that in, in that show, and it went down for like seven seasons,

Zak: 2:08:58

I know it's a Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 2:09:00

a lot of episodes, but it, what was interesting about that show was, it's a combination of just really cool sci-fi shit with really kind of religious overtones.

Zak: 2:09:11

Yeah.

Gene: 2:09:12

Because the, the bad guys, the robots, the Androids, robots, whatever you wanna call

Zak: 2:09:20

Are they the

Gene: 2:09:21

they, because they're kind of humanoid they believe in a single God. They're like, their religion sounds a lot more like,

Zak: 2:09:29

Christianity,

Gene: 2:09:31

Christianity, but not even just Christianity, but any of the,

Zak: 2:09:34

the big, the, the, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not

Gene: 2:09:37

and meanwhile the religion of the, the humans in there, the good guys is very much the old Greek sort of Pantheon

Zak: 2:09:45

like Hinduism or literally

Gene: 2:09:47

Yeah. Yeah. We're every, every city or every planet and there's a whole bunch of different gods.

Zak: 2:09:52

I love Greece, by the way, just a side note, I think why the fuck the Romans? Anyway, keep going.

Gene: 2:10:00

Well, that's what the Greeks say. I, I know a few Greeks. That's exactly what they say.

Zak: 2:10:04

well, I, I think as a Jew, as a, even if you're a British, fuck the Roman, I fucking hate them. They created Roman

Gene: 2:10:13

anyway, so in that show, one of the things that happens in the, a kind of in the middle of the show, I'd say,

Zak: 2:10:20

Okay. Okay.

Gene: 2:10:21

is some of these people start hearing a similar melody in their heads. And I, that's all I'm gonna tell you. I'm not gonna tell you more in case you actually watch it. And I think it's a great show. I, it came

Zak: 2:10:37

you think it's possible to rewatch it? Because I mean, like, I think it is probably the, the most notably cheesy sci-fi show ever

Gene: 2:10:44

It's not, it. You should see the original version that was on in the seventies. Now you talk about Cheesy. That is cheesy.

Zak: 2:10:52

Oh, this isn't the seventies

Gene: 2:10:54

No, no, no, no. This is the one from like 2003, four. So it's like 15 years

Zak: 2:10:59

My, my dad was telling me to watch the new Star Wars thing. There's a new one that came out and he was like, this one's got some

Gene: 2:11:06

Yeah. He told me the same thing. I, I'm just so over

Zak: 2:11:09

Yeah. I'm so over anything that Disney makes really, but

Gene: 2:11:13

Yeah. Yeah. Talk about pet Ffl Disney's definitely one of those. I, I just, yeah. I, I just don't like companies that generate tons of revenue off children. Just to me, that's just not right.

Zak: 2:11:25

to me, the reason why I don't like'em, but we, let's get back to the other thing is is because, They've oversaturated such great, like, like I, I'm a film major. I'm like the worst film major ever, by the way. But like, to me, I hate, like, what I've really discovered is I, I hate corporations and I hate the way that I've, I'm 20, right? But like, I've, I've, right now, everything's moving so exponentially faster. Like I said before, I've got like four main ideas in life, but that's, one of'em is like every single second. Especially now with AI and everything, everything is moving so much faster. And it's like, dude, I haven't watched a Marvel movie. I watched like the Spider-Man one. But like even before that, I think the last one I watched was probably Infinity War. Like, I can't, I can't stand it. It's just like, dude, slow. If you would've slowed this down, like more like stop trying to generate revenue and make something that, like, give us something to look forward to.

Gene: 2:12:31

I actually completely agree with you. Although I will, I also hate communism and socialism. I'm very much a libertarian and

Zak: 2:12:39

So you like fucking kids, huh?

Gene: 2:12:41

freedom of everything. But I totally agree with that aspect of it. I think that what we've seen over the last 20 years really has been a corporatization of every aspect of American life.

Zak: 2:12:57

Yeah. I

Gene: 2:12:57

And it's not been for the better, it's been for the

Zak: 2:13:00

oh yeah. Well, if we're really going back again, connecting to religion is I've, I brought this up to my dad about a bajillion times, but I find it like to be the most Interesting thing is I just took a British history course, like an

Gene: 2:13:15

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 2:13:15

to British history pro. the Roman Catholics are the ones who did it. They've been doing it since the very beginning. It, it is crazy like, talk about globalization, like Jesus Christ. Like what is what yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 2:13:33

you, have you been to the Vatican?

Zak: 2:13:35

I haven't, but I, I kind of want to go. I bet it's beautiful,

Gene: 2:13:38

You should check it out. I, I,

Zak: 2:13:40

I've been to

Gene: 2:13:41

I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I've been to the Vatican I think five or six times, and every time I go there, I'm like, it's important to go to see the seed of evil

Zak: 2:13:55

Yeah,

Gene: 2:13:55

if you don't see it firsthand, you may not believe it.

Zak: 2:13:58

yeah, yeah,

Gene: 2:13:59

And I know it's a, again, it's a extremely unpopular thing to say,

Zak: 2:14:03

Oh, it's po It's pretty po I think almost everyone agrees

Gene: 2:14:06

but if you look at, well, not the Catholics obviously,

Zak: 2:14:09

Oh,

Gene: 2:14:09

but, but if you look at the history of the religion, you look at the decisions that were made, not even just recent ones, but you just all throughout history of. Of the church. And you look at the, the amount of art and gold and everything valuable that was PIL fried and brought to the Vatican.

Zak: 2:14:35

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:14:36

It just really Oh, completely.

Zak: 2:14:38

But, but it's, it's their artwork as well is

Gene: 2:14:42

it, it puts into a perspective of, of what the, the Catholic Church represents

Zak: 2:14:50

Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 2:14:51

It's not, again, this is like a lot of people point to, well, is Israel is

Zak: 2:14:55

yeah, yeah. Yeah. They talk about the Jews when in reality it's like, dude, Guess who made up that rumor? Just guess. Give me, give me a wild guess. It's just like everything, what, what the British history class really pointed me to is like, we, I read a lot about cuz it was during the Reformation period, just to interrupt again. But during the Reformation period, you read these philosophers words, like, it's like, holy shit, dude. This was, this was in like, this was forever ago. It was forever ago. And they're saying the same shit that like socialists are saying today, that like anyone is saying, like, you look at satanism like the positive satanism and like you could literally just grab word for word what these, what these philosophers said. These Christian or even Catholic. Mostly Christian mo, like most real Christians hated Catholicism because it is, I, in my opinion, I think what I realized is it's a very fake religion just made to extort and

Gene: 2:15:55

it, it, that's the thing is it's not just a religion, it's also a country.

Zak: 2:15:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Gene: 2:16:01

And that's that, the, the goal of of the, the Vatican State and its precursor. Was really the creation of this new unified country that spans the entire world. Really, they were going for reclaiming the old Roman empire, but under the banner of Christianity. And there are a lot of problems. And look, there, there's plenty of good things that are in Christianity that I have no

Zak: 2:16:32

Oh, I, I think Christianity fundamentally is a pheno. I think it's a perfectly fine, phenomenal

Gene: 2:16:38

of, lots of good stuff in there, but, but also the, the marketing of the Christianity in the early days especially is extremely aggressive and problematic.

Zak: 2:16:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, like right now we're I think ads are at the worst they've been ever, but like, imagine getting, like, having the thread of getting your head cut off, like you're probably gonna convert to Christianity. Like It's, it's pretty, yeah. I mean, look at the Jews, like same shit. It's,

Gene: 2:17:12

Well, and, and you look at like the the witch trials

Zak: 2:17:15

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 2:17:16

like, I, it sounds like comedic when I say it now, but, so the, the way that you know, you're not a witch, if you're accused of a witch is if you're held underwater and you drown, you're not a witch. If you're held underwater and you don't drown, well, that proves you're a witch.

Zak: 2:17:33

the funniest shit ever, man.

Gene: 2:17:35

I mean, it's like, come on man. How do you, who takes that seriously? That, that cl that's like saying, when did you stop beating your wife?

Zak: 2:17:44

are you ready for this one? I'm about to do something crazy. If we tie this all back, we tie up like our whole conversation back. All this shit, it, I don't know if it's natural. I, I, I do like, again, fuck the Romans because all this qan on. it's all the, it's the same exact tactics, almost word for word. Like I could, I could make you a presentation where I'll take like a British history the Romans coming in, trying to spread Catholicism, and I could probably replace all the words, and I could probably even use like chat G B T to do this, honestly. And like just make it Q Andon like a ProQ, andon thing. And, and every single tactic that they use is the exact same. It's like, no, it's not our fault. No, it's not our fault. Oh, that, that thing that, like we said would happen, that like didn't happen magically. Like, like, like the, you basically have to make an argument where you conform people to a belief. Obviously Christianity really easy to conform people to a belief, good-hearted people, good-hearted people who think that they're doing right. And the reason why Catholicism is so powerful is because it takes that and then it grabs it, it will hive mine people really quickly. So you don't start with anything violent and then you start, you start attacking the minorities. You start getting the small people, and you have people gang up and you have the, everybody thinks that they're doing right, like they're doing it in good nature. Other than the people at the top really similar to that movie that I was talking to you about. It's kind of somewhat similar to his main point. But you know, you look at these people at the top and they're the ones doing it. They're the ones trying to force people to conform, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you, with Qan on is you can't be wrong if if, if it's always the liberal media trying to silence, if it's always the liberals, if it's always the woke culture. If it's always the cancel culture, it's not, it, it, it, it, it's just like by utilizing something that like you slightly hate, as a tactic. It really pulls everything together. And one thing that I've really been seeing is like there I've actually, I've, I've actually been more earlier this semester, I was really, I freaked out about, I, I was really going through it. I did not realize that like I genuinely am pretty relatively mentally ill at certain points. But I started going down ai but also this other hole where I was like, it actually connects very much so with ai, but there's no longer any parties in between. And it's the same thing that religion's done. Where, where it's, where it's the right and the left. Can I finish this one

Gene: 2:20:38

yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I thought you were done.

Zak: 2:20:40

Oh, no, no, you're all good. You look at libertarianism, right? It's a complete the right, stole it. It's gone. And you look at religion, the Right has a firm, firm grasp on religion, and they've made all these things that are not political issues, political issues, but they've done it slowly and slowly. And the reason why I'm saying everything's getting exponential is because the Arsenal keeps on building and it's like, you have this, you have this fucking crate of everything, and you have all these groups of people who will automatically align with your side because they think that it's the right side. But in reality, these people are just making shit tons of money. And they're like, I don't even know how, like when I was telling you about the kids, like the psychopathic kids, like that's not about money. That's like people who are generally likes serial killer type energy, but then there's like the people, like I said about Elon Musk or like just accumulating more wealth, accumulating more wealth and keeping it, and not giving it like you're taking this shit unfairly and keeping it for yourself and. There needs to be, and this, and the reason why I'm hopeful is because now I'm seeing so many like progressive young kids who are getting involved in politics. Again, like I was forcing, I was making sure that my friends were voting, I was making sure that everything was happening. And I think that like, old heads have been controlling this country for so long because, they're the only ones who will go and vote in local elections and shit.

Gene: 2:22:12

Yeah, and I, so there's, there's a bunch of stuff I agree with you on,

Zak: 2:22:15

Yeah. Yeah. Tell me what you disagree.

Gene: 2:22:17

yeah, what, what I find really fun and interesting, and I think other listeners will notice this too, is what you say about qan, Aon absolutely is mirrored and can be said about the woke movement,

Zak: 2:22:32

And

Gene: 2:22:33

same things, not changing a single word. If I just play back like a clip of you talking about what you just said about Q

Zak: 2:22:41

and,

Gene: 2:22:42

and not tell people you're talking about Q, like cut it off right there and then say, what do you think he was talking about?

Zak: 2:22:47

yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 2:22:49

it'll completely depend on what their personal stance is,

Zak: 2:22:52

A

Gene: 2:22:53

and they will be 100% sure that what you meant was either Black Lives Matter or some other group that's really pushing or, or

Zak: 2:23:03

yeah, yeah. Exactly. Like if they didn't know my opinions or whatever,

Gene: 2:23:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the language and the use is exactly the same.

Zak: 2:23:11

and I will contest, I will contest this because this is what I've been working, this is the argument that I've been working on for a while

Gene: 2:23:19

Well, you can contest that. I'm just saying that I, I hope that over time as you as you age and get better with age like wine, you will look back and you'll see that what I was talking about,

Zak: 2:23:31

No, no, no. I actually so the thing is, is I, I, I agree. Almost a hundred percent with what you just

Gene: 2:23:37

Here, here's the part where we totally agree on. There's no middle anymore. It's gone. Like, there used to be a middle. In fact, most people used to be in the middle,

Zak: 2:23:46

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:23:47

And I, I used to be the guy that was like, arguing with my conservative friends about like, what, who gives a shit? Who these people are fucking, like, I really don't care. Okay. It, it doesn't affect me. I have friends that are gay, I have friends that are whatever. It doesn't really matter. It's, it's irrelevant and it shouldn't matter to you and your religion should have nothing to do with it. And then at the same time, arguing with, with my liberal friends, yeah. I had friends that were like anarchists and liberals and, and conservatives, all kinds of people when I was in college

Zak: 2:24:21

I have the best art. I, I'm,

Gene: 2:24:24

I was getting shit from every side because I, I can see all viewpoints. Like, to me, there's good and bad bits that you can pull from everywhere. I just want consistency of the rules.

Zak: 2:24:36

and I

Gene: 2:24:37

we, we gotta talk in the same language, otherwise we're not gonna hear each other.

Zak: 2:24:42

a hundred percent. Well, because Gene, I got, I got some, I got some, a few things that I'll actually, this is kind of what I've been trying to do with my dad, so I have some things that'll help you out here. Because I think that this is the biggest generational issue and the reason why I used to be so against any form of progressive progressivism is because of people like that. Like you just described, the woke movement, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I, I will agree. Terrible. The most fucking obnoxious people. I will say, however, that I think that the right is considerably more dangerous and violent. However, I will also say, because most of the progressive left fucking hate those people. They hate the woke people. And the reason why you, you almost have this image in your mind. I'm not telling you what you think, but I, I know almost for, for some certainty is, like you said earlier, like PFL or Disney.

Gene: 2:25:48

Yeah.

Zak: 2:25:49

not, that's not people. Those are fucking money-making corporations who are trying to exploit people who may have certain views or certain whatever to, to basically gather money. And in my mind, it almost feels a little bit villainous because it almost plays into the conservative or the right narrative where it's like, oh, this woke what leftism bullshit. And it's like, it's almost garnering hate against people who just want to be people. And

Gene: 2:26:21

Well, I think that's the stereotype. I don't think it's a true

Zak: 2:26:24

I I will well, I'll follow it up super quick. So I mentioned him earlier, Hassan,

Gene: 2:26:31

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 2:26:32

he's, he, he, he doesn't even want to be called a socialist anymore because fucking socialists are obnoxious as shit. Like, they're not, they're not, it, it's just progressivism. And right now, what, like, these people who I used to loathe and hate, I'm realizing like, it, I don't even think it's just my age because I've been through the exact same thing that you just, you just stated like, I cannot understate it enough. But once I, once I really started digging deeper into how just completely unjust our country, especially our country, our country's the best example of it. And like, just how repetitive it is and how we've been force-fed lies in order to just marginalize groups repeatedly. Is, is really interesting. And if we look at Disney, Disney's had fucking trans, the villains have been gay or trans the whole time. Like, Ursula is a d like, like a is a trans woman. Like you, you look at, you

Gene: 2:27:30

the hell's Ursula?

Zak: 2:27:32

from the Little Mermaid, you're, she's a drag queen from the Little Mermaid. And then you look at like, Hades from Hercules, totally gay. Like, like if you look at a lot of these villains. Anyway, the reason why I bring up Hassan is because he fucking hates the woke. And, and he'll have people come into his chat and be like, you shouldn't be saying this. You shouldn't be doing whatever. And he's like, dude, fuck you. Just leave. Like, this isn't for you. Like, I'm trying to explain this to people in the best way who may have who, who don't fully understand these issues and the complexities of these issues. And I'm trying to explain it in the most unbiased way. And what I've realized is like, holy shit, I was, I was bred to be spiteful and hateful in so many ways, and I was racist, and, and I didn't even like, like, racism, n word, blah, blah, blah. Like, that's not racism. Like, like once I learned just like pretty much all the facts about systemic racism and just how like, like even the word microaggression has a bad connotation still to me. Like that word has a bad taste because it's been so overused, overplayed, whatever. It, it still exists and they're real. And there are real ones and then there's fake ones. But here's the biggest point Gene is you, the, the woke that you're pointing to,

Gene: 2:29:03

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 2:29:04

you go onto Twitter, you go to their accounts, their old 12 year old K-pop stands, people who are actually for this. Democrats fuck. Democrats fuck the Dems. I, I want, I want, I just want more people to understand like that this system, the, the big speakers are not, they're not the people with the actual beliefs. Like the beliefs are coming from somewhere. Like these people think that they're being good nature, like I said, like with the QAN stuff. Like they think that they're saving, they're saving the world. In reality, they're just cultivating more hate. And I like, they, that makes me, that, that, that cultivates hate within me. It's like, dude, you're, you're such a fucking hypocrite. Like, shut the fuck up and just let these people be, don't attack and harass them for no reason. You're, you're, you're no better

Gene: 2:29:55

I, I think that you have a slightly skewed perspective on that, given where you live and what family you're in

Zak: 2:30:02

Oh dude. Oh yeah. No, a hundred percent. Actually one thing is, is my school was literally like the Disney of trying to teach us about that shit. Like it's just fake bullshit. What, like, like just doing it for the image, not actually trying to teach. And then when I talk to actual black kids, it's like,

Gene: 2:30:22

yeah. It,

Zak: 2:30:23

God, I learned

Gene: 2:30:24

there's, and I, I'll, I'll tell having been alive as long as I have, I've absolutely seen a regression in black and white relationships and communication and everything else

Zak: 2:30:36

yep.

Gene: 2:30:37

like it. 25 years ago, even, even 15 years ago, for Christ's sake,

Zak: 2:30:42

dude, even six

Gene: 2:30:43

Things were a lot less, us and them. And they were like, people really of my generation stopped really noticing race for the most part, because we had black friends, we had Asian friends, we had all kinds of friends. And what we have in common was a lot more than what we had

Zak: 2:31:01

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's, it's not, it's not

Gene: 2:31:04

and, and this is the, the negative side of, of a lot of this woke stuff is it keeps pointing out the differences and then telling you, you need to do this, you need to respect them, you

Zak: 2:31:16

I agree. Almost a hundred percent.

Gene: 2:31:19

It's like,

Zak: 2:31:20

one

Gene: 2:31:21

more you point out differences, the more you're gonna stir up people disliking each other.

Zak: 2:31:24

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think that the one thing though is there's a nuance to it. A again, like the reason why I'm like so excited about this progressivism stuff is because I'm seeing everyone come together in a new light.

Gene: 2:31:40

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 2:31:40

the thing, the, the people who talk about the differences are white people for the majority of the time. They're, they're just, they're just fucking obno,

Gene: 2:31:50

I'll give you beyond that, it's mostly rich white women

Zak: 2:31:53

boom,

Gene: 2:31:54

ultimately who's stirring the pot the

Zak: 2:31:56

same with white girls. And that's white savior attitude. And that's something that, that's something that ne like, that's, that's something that like, someone would be like, oh, woke agenda. No, dude. No, it's not like that's, that's a real thing. Like if we just, although we just generalize the shit out of it. It

Gene: 2:32:13

know we did, but, but it's, it is a real thing. And I'll tell you, you'll get no argument from the conservatives out there either, because it, it's, it's very obvious where it's coming from.

Zak: 2:32:22

exactly.

Gene: 2:32:23

from, like this, this image of the, the southern dude that like hates black people was probably true 50 to a hundred years ago. There are more black people living in the. and working in the south and being friends with people of all kinds of races than there are in California.

Zak: 2:32:41

I

Gene: 2:32:41

California is leading the way towards pointing out about how bad racism is.

Zak: 2:32:47

yes, I agree with that. But I do think that that right now we're kind of at this weird tipping point where it's either, it's either gonna slow down a little bit or it's gonna get bad. Is,

Gene: 2:33:01

get worse.

Zak: 2:33:02

I think, I think conservatives are

Gene: 2:33:04

you that.

Zak: 2:33:05

I'm, I'm more honestly, four months ago I was, I was so like, I'm like, oh my God, the world's ending right now. I'm like, I'm excited. I'm like, oh my God. Like, like I'm seeing all these people unite, everybody unite, like people, people like me who maybe held like really weird views for a while, or maybe were exposed to a lot of right wing media and like kind of were going down the gamer gate pipeline and then realize like, oh shit, like you, and then, but still kind of having those beliefs and then being almost reentered to a level of understanding. Anyway, I think that the right is, right now, like I said earlier, like they don't have anywhere to go. They, it's hard for them to go back and the only places forward and they're moving at an exponential rate.

Gene: 2:33:55

Well, and and much like you're making a distinction between progressive and woke, I wanna make a distinction between right and Q because Q is like

Zak: 2:34:06

I,

Gene: 2:34:06

of the right.

Zak: 2:34:07

I, I, I say the opposite. I don't think it's exactly

Gene: 2:34:15

this out cuz because of where you live,

Zak: 2:34:18

Oh, oh,

Gene: 2:34:19

a very skewed perspective on this.

Zak: 2:34:21

oh, yeah,

Gene: 2:34:22

A majority of people that will self-identify as conservative will want to distance themselves from the crazies. That are in queue.

Zak: 2:34:32

Okay. So the, okay. Okay. I actually have a great connection for this. So. Obviously q I don't even know what's going on with Q anymore. I'm not gonna say that all conservatives are at the craziness of Q, but obviously conservatives have been getting crazier and crazier. Like Dr. Oz almost fucking won. Like he, he, he was genuinely just saying racist bullshit and like transphobic bullshit constantly. And

Gene: 2:35:04

does that mean? Transphobic?

Zak: 2:35:06

so transphobic would be anti-trans rhetoric. So it'd be basically

Gene: 2:35:10

is that transphobic, though?

Zak: 2:35:12

Because saying that trans people don't exist or calling someone who's

Gene: 2:35:15

did he ever say they don't exist?

Zak: 2:35:17

There's a dog

Gene: 2:35:18

gonna let you generalize.

Zak: 2:35:19

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's a good call out. I, I can I would love to provide a specific example, so I'll retract that for now and I'll send you, I'll send you a link where he's basically like, kids, kids can't decide if they're trans,

Gene: 2:35:34

And I, I would agree with that. Kids can't decide a lot of things,

Zak: 2:35:37

That is very true. But being transgender is there because I, because again, like I have had the same, like, it, it's crazy because the reason why I'm not even like, I don't, I, I don't even want to be like combative is because I understand where you're coming from to such a degree, and I, it takes time. It took me four years to get to like the level of understanding that I'm at now. And it's, I'm not saying that I'm woke in any sense, like, I fucking hate that word, but like understanding. Yeah. Like I get it now. Like I get like, dude, trans people are being attacked left and right. Like the don't say gay law. The the don't say gay law. You're not allowed to talk about gay people. Like, like the don't say gay law is a law. Like that shit's fucked up.

Gene: 2:36:31

It

Zak: 2:36:32

and then,

Gene: 2:36:33

what is it? Have you read the law? I think a lot of misconceptions are flying around Dude,

Zak: 2:36:37

Okay. That is very true. But I will say where was it? What state was it? Where you could, no, no, not that, don't say gay. You could basically tell a teacher or a person that someone's gay or trans and you would basically receive a reward for doing so. I forgot what state that is. Yeah. That shit's fucked up.

Gene: 2:36:58

I've never heard of it. I don't know if that makes I mean that wouldn't, like why would someone do that? That makes no difference or no sense.

Zak: 2:37:05

but that's what I'm saying is like, all this shit has gotten

Gene: 2:37:08

I think there's a lot of, a lot of stuff that's just sort of

Zak: 2:37:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I totally agree. I'm also really bad at remembering certain facts, by the way. So I just wanna point that out and, and, and I, and I'm generalizing, but like,

Gene: 2:37:25

Yeah. I, I, here's the, here's the point I wanna make is there's a difference between between disliking what somebody says

Zak: 2:37:33

mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:37:34

and disapproving of who they are. Like there are certainly people, religious types that disapprove of gay people, right. That exists. I'm not denying

Zak: 2:37:44

No, that could that, yeah. Yeah. That could never exist.

Gene: 2:37:47

but there are certainly people that don't disapprove of gays. Like, yeah, do whatever you want. I don't give a shit, not my problem, but don't get in my face and start telling me how I should act

Zak: 2:38:03

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:38:05

if I'm cool. it in your face, then reciprocate and do the same thing. And it's the live in that live principle. And the problem is right now that every year I've noticed this, it's been ramping up to more and more just like a stronger impact more rhetoric that is hotter

Zak: 2:38:29

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:38:29

about people not being happy enough to just be ignored, but actually wanting there to be like I, if somebody wants to talk about gay issues with me for whatever reason,

Zak: 2:38:41

Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 2:38:42

I should be able to just politely say, you know what? I just don't care. I don't want to talk about it.

Zak: 2:38:47

A hundred percent

Gene: 2:38:48

And for a lot of people, me do saying that exact thing is gonna put a label of homophobia on me,

Zak: 2:38:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Gene: 2:38:58

and that's bullshit. That's what I'm gonna call it. Bullshit. Bullshit.

Zak: 2:39:01

Because you didn't, so, so I think the difference would be did you say something that could have been homophobic or a little uneducated, and maybe

Gene: 2:39:09

But it doesn't matter. I mean, it's, that's the thing. It's not their job to teach anybody.

Zak: 2:39:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No,

Gene: 2:39:15

you could say, like, you could say Catholicism sucks. Do you now think that it's appropriate for a Catholic priest to show up at your house and say, we listen to this podcast and we understand you have the wrong impression of Catholicism, we'd like to

Zak: 2:39:28

No,

Gene: 2:39:28

about what you oughta be saying.

Zak: 2:39:30

no.

Gene: 2:39:31

No, definitely not.

Zak: 2:39:32

me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I, and, and that I hear. But the, the thing that I see the most is people will take that, and you know how I was saying that there's like two sides and they're grabbing on arsenal. Just that logic and ideology is now, it, it's not just it, it, it, it's been done by both sides. I'm not saying that anyone's innocent in this situation, but like that's, that's. Just that thought process can start to drag you down a pit of a form of homophobia, and you won't even realize that it's

Gene: 2:40:13

Yeah. Or Heterophobia, which I think a lot of people genuinely have.

Zak: 2:40:17

Yeah. And and to me, I don't get like, like, but I don't have to No one's, no one's not a, like, no one's not letting me talk about being straight. No one's

Gene: 2:40:32

Oh, you tried doing that. In a lot of companies these days, you're gonna see yourself on the wrong side of the HR

Zak: 2:40:39

Well, well, again, companies, man, like that's what I'm saying. This is, they're not people.

Gene: 2:40:44

Well, people are running those companies. People are making decisions,

Zak: 2:40:47

Yeah. Not gay. Not gay people. not black

Gene: 2:40:51

plenty of gay people. Absolutely. Are you kidding, dude? The, the marketing industry

Zak: 2:40:56

Actually, apple, we got Tim

Gene: 2:40:57

very high percentage gay people working in it. I mean, like, let's put it this way. I'll give you a stereotype. It's not even a joke, it's just a stereotype that you used to be able to say without anybody being offended. I don't know if that's true anymore. Probably not. If I want a lawyer, I'm gonna look for a

Zak: 2:41:14

Jewish lawyer. Hell yeah, baby. That's what I'm talking about.

Gene: 2:41:17

If I'm gonna look for a mechanic, I'm gonna look for a German guy.

Zak: 2:41:22

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:41:23

And if I'm gonna look for somebody to do my ad campaign, I'm gonna look for a gay, gay,

Zak: 2:41:28

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:41:29

like it used to be

Zak: 2:41:31

Oh,

Gene: 2:41:31

acceptable to say that because each of these stereotypes is actually a positive aspect of that particular group.

Zak: 2:41:38

know what's really funny is when I was talking about like the religion stuff, that's actually another thing that I've been thinking about a lot is like, there are different types of human beings that are all incredibly good at certain things, and it's like ver like, like exactly what you just said. Like it, I don't know if it's rooted in. purely just like familial type things, whatever the word is that I'm looking for, or if it's like a hereditary thing or if it's whatever. But like, you look at Down Syndrome people. This is, this is the one that I, I, I, I tend to think about a lot is because those motherfuckers are stronger, but they're also the sweetest people, typically.

Gene: 2:42:20

You ever seen a black down syndrome kid?

Zak: 2:42:23

n Yes, I have

Gene: 2:42:25

never seen

Zak: 2:42:26

really,

Gene: 2:42:27

Nope.

Zak: 2:42:28

I, I, I, I, I know I have, yes, yes, yes. I'm trying to think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think about fuck, where was it? Where was it? Well now I feel like you see, now I feel like an asshole,

Gene: 2:42:39

Well, it doesn't matter. I mean, I'm just bringing it up as an example. The, the bottom line is people should be able to have conversations that are slightly offensive without getting their panties in the wad.

Zak: 2:42:51

Exactly. And that's what we need. We, we need more, because that's like when I'm talking to my dad, like, he's my dad. But if I was talking again, since I'm talking to you, like, I don't feel any kind of hatred or anything, especially because you're open-minded and you're listening to what I'm saying, and I'm listening to what you're saying, and it's like, for me it's like the reason why I sometimes I'm like, I know exactly what you're saying is because I've, I've been down the same thought loops and,

Gene: 2:43:19

and I'm, my goal isn't to teach you anything. I'm just telling you

Zak: 2:43:22

yeah. Yeah. And,

Gene: 2:43:23

different from your dad whose goal is to actually teach you shit.

Zak: 2:43:26

well, I, I think it's more so the fact that he's my dad and. Might get a little bit easily agitated at him. Plus he's, you he's a hardheaded fuck.

Gene: 2:43:35

I do know your

Zak: 2:43:36

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but I thi this is my favorite thing in the whole wide world. I love having conversations with people who have different perspectives, and I love trying to find a middle ground because it helps me find my own perspective and it helps me. Oh, my main goal is just to make, I, I, again, why I, I'm gonna send you a few things after this, but I would love for you to take a look at kind of what I mean is like, the reason why I'm excited is because like, these left, like the, the progressives, what, it's not even progressives. I, I hate that word too, because it also has a negative connotation because progressives are annoying as fuck. But whatever, whatever I've been invested in the, it's on the left, whatever, it makes me happy to see the ability for conversation to be had and like people go willingly to go and see like other perspectives. And it's wonderful. And for me, the reason why, what I've, what I've really, what I've started saying as of late is like, again, this is gonna kind of contradict what I said, but also in a way it's not, is like I think that the, like the, the hardheaded Democrats are now the right, and then like the progressives are now the left. And I don't give a single fuck about what a lot of conservatives have to say because it's just reset bullshit. And I don't, like, for me, it's just like, I, I know that I can't change their mind, and I know that I can't have a conversation with'em without attacking them. And, and I'll try, I'll always, I'll always, I'll always, I'll always try, but it's, at a certain point it's really difficult. And,

Gene: 2:45:18

I think if you talk to more conservatives that were not religious, you would have a much easier

Zak: 2:45:24

More true, more true conservatives. How about

Gene: 2:45:27

Fiscal conservatives. Yeah.

Zak: 2:45:28

Well, we will say, we'll say fiscal with no social, because the so like that's why, that's why, when I was like, the qan non

Gene: 2:45:35

kind of what a libertarian is, right? It's, it's fiscally conservative, socially

Zak: 2:45:39

yeah. And you can't even call yourself a libertarian anymore without being roped in. Yeah. dude. Because you're a fucking libertarian, right? Like, and

Gene: 2:45:49

it's, so I, just to give you a background, you actually ran for office as a libertarian many, many years ago, back in the early nineties. Yeah, I was pretty high up in the party, at least on the, on the state level. And the libertarian party back then, the biggest problem I had with them is all the potheads seemed to drift into libertarianism.

Zak: 2:46:11

the pot

Gene: 2:46:12

libertarian. From a philosophical standpoint,

Zak: 2:46:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 2:46:16

that governments should be as small as possible so people can get their shit done.

Zak: 2:46:21

Yeah,

Gene: 2:46:22

And unfortunately, the, a big group of people that also agree with that happened to be pothead. So I was like, oh, for fuck's sake.

Zak: 2:46:29

yeah, yeah,

Gene: 2:46:30

So they kind of made the party really hard to take

Zak: 2:46:33

And then they kind of, then they kind of ran away. They

Gene: 2:46:35

Well, and I, I, I, I'm I guess I wa I would call myself a small libertarian, which basically means libertarian ideals, but not a member of the Libertarian Party,

Zak: 2:46:45

Yeah.

Gene: 2:46:45

the Libertarian party kind of moved in its own direction, and I stayed exactly where I was.

Zak: 2:46:51

You kind of sound like a pot head pot head list, hater list. It's shit. I tried to make a, I tried to make, I tried to make a joke. It was a

Gene: 2:47:00

I know. I

Zak: 2:47:00

it really, it, I'm, I, I, I was far from the mark, but keep going. Sorry.

Gene: 2:47:06

Yeah. I think would be the, the, the word you were looking for.

Zak: 2:47:09

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Gene: 2:47:10

yeah, it's, it's, to me it was just like inevitable that, if people are too damn concerned, Smoking pot. Like they've lost the focus of the overall vision of the party. So it's not gonna matter. But I still think that like I I, for a good chunk of my life, I was generally seen as the lefty

Zak: 2:47:32

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:47:32

my friends because they were Republicans full on.

Zak: 2:47:36

Oh, you're from Minnesota?

Gene: 2:47:38

And and I, I got a story I'll tell you about your dad not on the podcast though.

Zak: 2:47:42

Okay.

Gene: 2:47:43

It like that. I feel like I haven't really moved in either direction, but because of where the the division is now, I'm, I would be like far right wing, crazy nut Nazi guy.

Zak: 2:47:58

Exactly.

Gene: 2:47:59

cuz I like shooting guns, oh my god. The

Zak: 2:48:01

You know what's, you know what's really interesting that I started to realize is you look at, so I actually think that your ideals will align more with modern socialism, more than you think, but also the fact that like no one, like socialists aren't like about taking away people's guns. That it's more so like, it's like personal, like keep, like

Gene: 2:48:23

historically, they sure as hell are

Zak: 2:48:25

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like, dude, keep your gun at the range and like, have your pistol or a shotgun at home. Like, that's all you need. But like, I personally think, like, dude that's my personal opinion. I'm sure that you heavily disagree and we don't need to go on that topic.

Gene: 2:48:40

No. Come to Texas. We'll, we'll go shoot.

Zak: 2:48:42

dude, dude, let dude, I, I've wanted, I've wanted to, I've wanted, like, now I don't, I I think if, if we would've done it four years ago, I would've done the bore thing, but I don't, I don't think I have the heart for that anymore, man. That's fucked up in the helicopter.

Gene: 2:48:57

you're kind of helping him in a way because they're over. No, seriously.

Zak: 2:49:02

They're overpopulated as

Gene: 2:49:04

way overpopulated. Would you rather have boars starving? or would you rather prune the herd and then the ones that live don't starve to

Zak: 2:49:12

It's just from a helicopter. It's

Gene: 2:49:15

have to be. It's, look, it's a

Zak: 2:49:16

oh, I,

Gene: 2:49:17

expensive way to do it from a

Zak: 2:49:19

I would do it. I would do it. Not from a helicopter.

Gene: 2:49:22

yeah, yeah. That's easy. That's cheaper and easier to do it. Not from a helicopter. I know your dad got very excited

Zak: 2:49:27

not, dude, it's so fucked up. It's hilarious, but like,

Gene: 2:49:33

Well, but you also it doesn't have to be boars either. We, you can you name an an injured animal? We'll, we'll go out hunting.

Zak: 2:49:41

in danger.

Gene: 2:49:42

Well, they're, it's more fun, right?

Zak: 2:49:43

Yeah, yeah, exactly. We could be like what the fuck was his name? Who's the, I actually was, I watched it was Channel five. He did a whole thing where he went to what was that? What was that writer's name? Who? Florida Keys.

Gene: 2:49:55

Oh, Hemingway.

Zak: 2:49:56

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He went to like the Earnest Hemingway, like lookalike competition. It's a great video. It's so funny, but like, yeah, we could be like Hemingway

Gene: 2:50:04

I'll tell you that I've not had particular good luck in, in hunting in my past, just cuz I miss more than the hit

Zak: 2:50:11

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 2:50:12

I still really enjoy the idea of it. And I love fresh deer meat. Man. That is great stuff.

Zak: 2:50:18

Yeah. There's something, I, there's something about me. I, I'm a big. I, I don't know why the fuck I am going to school in Boulder, but like, I'm a big Pacific Northwest guy and like hunting there, like in Marshy Woods where you're like sitting, you got yourself your soup and you're like in your can, whatever it's called, your cup, and you're just sipping on soup, waiting for the deer to come, like, after tracking it,

Gene: 2:50:46

Yeah. You're not doing that. They'll smell the soup.

Zak: 2:50:49

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No eating. I'll cover myself in piss.

Gene: 2:50:54

Yeah. You do that beforehand?

Zak: 2:50:56

yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I but yeah, like, dude, I, I, as much as I think that I would probably be very, I'm just a very sensitive guy, so like, I just don't know if I would really love the idea of killing it. I would still probably do it

Gene: 2:51:11

I don't, I don't like the idea of killing any animals. I think it's the hunting part, not the killing part. That is exciting.

Zak: 2:51:19

It brings, it brings us back, man. It's just like, it's back, back when we were kids, like back

Gene: 2:51:24

I don't, I don't know if they, if they had this when you were in Africa, cause you've been there how many times now?

Zak: 2:51:31

five or six,

Gene: 2:51:32

Yeah, but they, they, there are places that do safari with paintball guns.

Zak: 2:51:37

Oh. That's still, that's still,

Gene: 2:51:39

It's kind of a dick thing in

Zak: 2:51:41

I, I don't, I, I don't like that it still is equally just like like, it's not a sh it's sh it's like equally shitty in a completely different way. Like it's just fucked up. Like you're just shooting and antelope in the ass.

Gene: 2:51:55

But it's still fun. I mean, it's fun to do that to people too. I used to do paintball all the time. I

Zak: 2:52:00

I bet if you did things that my dad did, yeah.

Gene: 2:52:02

not even paintball, it's the the little

Zak: 2:52:04

airsoft that shit. You would, you would love that. Well, I mean,

Gene: 2:52:09

at this age, I wouldn't. But I, I do watch some of those videos and it is very

Zak: 2:52:15

Rich or whatever his name is, you watch that.

Gene: 2:52:17

Wh which

Zak: 2:52:17

Nav. He's a sniper one. Oh, he's

Gene: 2:52:21

Oh. Oh, maybe I have, yeah, I did watch the Sniper dude for a British guy. Is he British?

Zak: 2:52:26

He's like British or he is from some European country. He might be like Swedish or something like

Gene: 2:52:31

but it's it, the equipment just looks

Zak: 2:52:33

Oh, dude, it's, dude, you, you gotta get you, if you got your hands on one, you would have so much fun, man. Like the, the I'll see if I can find some of the old ones. Oh, look up something right now for me. Actually look up, he burned my patch. That is my, that, that That video is, it's an internet classic, but holy shit man. Like the rate that guns shoot is, it's crazy. So my friend, the one who used to play Kble Space program, I think he has all of his hours, privated or something, but he, he got really into it. He got super into it. He would go out like every weekend and he would just keep on buying guns and whatever. But like, holy shit man, dude, do that. Just like get a couple guns, you'll, you'll have a blast. How, how do you live in a apartment or a house?

Gene: 2:53:25

house.

Zak: 2:53:26

Yeah. How big is your, you got some land

Gene: 2:53:29

big enough No, not for that. No. It, but, but also, I would say the exact same thing to you about actual guns.

Zak: 2:53:37

Oh, yeah,

Gene: 2:53:38

get out there, you start shooting, you're like, this is

Zak: 2:53:40

yeah, yeah. Oh, dude, I love shooting guns. I mean, I went to a trap trap shooting's, like one of my

Gene: 2:53:46

Oh, nice. So you did go out

Zak: 2:53:47

Yeah. I went trap. I went to a trap shooting camp. I got made fun of for being Jewish. They thought I was gay Californian and I also was super homesick, but like, this was in Minnesota too, so it, it makes sense. It the most rednecky kids, but man, I, I like got good at it. I would, I only shot the, like, the side by side was my shit. And I, I. Fucking, oh my God, I, every single day

Gene: 2:54:14

Gun for Call of Duty too.

Zak: 2:54:16

Yeah, dude. In,

Gene: 2:54:17

Shotguns were deadly, man.

Zak: 2:54:19

I don't know if you've played Modern Warfare 2019, but there was the, there was the over under. Dude, that shit went crazy. It was so good. It was the 7 25 is what it

Gene: 2:54:32

So I've got a a divorce. Ah, shit, what's the, I

Zak: 2:54:36

Yeah. My dad was telling me a little bit about your guns. I think he showed me some pictures, but what is it

Gene: 2:54:41

yeah. I've got, I've got some fun guns. But this is, this is a it is a 18 round semi-automatic shotgun.

Zak: 2:54:48

Oh, yeah, he was telling me about that. It's like an AA except not fully auto

Gene: 2:54:53

it's not fully yet. No, no semi-auto, but it's literally, as fast as you can pull the trigger, but yeah, that's a,

Zak: 2:55:00

Yeah. That, that trap shooting would not, it, I think it would ruin the trap shooting honestly. It

Gene: 2:55:05

yeah, they don't let you, if you, if you bring a gun that has more than the capacity of two, you can only load two rounds if you do trap

Zak: 2:55:13

Yeah. Yeah. How's a recoil on that?

Gene: 2:55:16

recoil is actually very manageable because well, it's a modern gun, so they know how to manage it

Zak: 2:55:21

yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not like non-existent.

Gene: 2:55:24

no, no, it's not, it's, it's not non-existent, but it's straight back and forth, so it doesn't really tip up,

Zak: 2:55:30

Mm-hmm.

Gene: 2:55:32

which makes it a lot easier, a lot better.

Zak: 2:55:35

you, like the AA twelves, right.

Gene: 2:55:37

yeah. Yeah. I've shot one.

Zak: 2:55:40

Have you felt like how you've shot a fully auto,

Gene: 2:55:44

Yep.

Zak: 2:55:45

how is what I've heard that, I've heard that the recoil is non-existent

Gene: 2:55:50

it, it, I'll tell you, the problem with those guns is that it, well, I wouldn't say no. It's definitely existent. You can absolutely feel it. The problem is that it in full auto mode, you're not prepared for how fast

Zak: 2:56:07

Yeah. Yeah. And it's a shotgun,

Gene: 2:56:10

to pull the trigger every time, like you, you have enough time between shots to really manage it and keep it on target when you do it in a full auto mode, like. as you're still kind of getting used to the fact that it just shot its shooting again. And I think that's the thing that at least for me made it to where I really wasn't staying on target. I was like, it wasn't tipping the gun up. It's, it's a good design so it, it does the impulse back, but because it's just constantly shooting as you're holding the trigger. And these are pretty heavy rounds you're shooting. I was not at all accurate with that

Zak: 2:56:49

Oh, no. I mean, like, yeah. And it's a shotgun too. I mean, I would, I would want to shoot some slugs out of that thing or something like that. Like

Gene: 2:56:57

Yeah. So something that I was offering your dad for ages, but now I can't do it anymore cuz they, they went out of business. There was a, a really cool firearm straining institute out of Nevada that I was a member of.

Zak: 2:57:10

Oh, really?

Gene: 2:57:11

And they did like four day classes in either handguns, shotguns, or rifle. And it was small groups, so it was a group of like 10 people per instructor. So you got a lot of coaching during that for, and it, it was literally like eight hours every day for four days in a row.

Zak: 2:57:33

Yeah.

Gene: 2:57:34

And, and it doesn't matter what level you were when you went there, you were guaranteed to be like two levels better by the time you left.

Zak: 2:57:40

Oh, that's awesome.

Gene: 2:57:42

That was very, very good. You used to go there every month. That was a good time.

Zak: 2:57:46

I, I what's really weird is I think through, I think trap shooting is honestly one of the better. Th I think you should probably shoot a handgun first, but then trap shooting, it really teaches you how to aim, I think. I think that it

Gene: 2:58:02

moving targets. It's, that's the thing that, that's more unique about it.

Zak: 2:58:07

well, not even moving targets, just in general. It's also just like, it, it teaches you how to hold a gun and like properly balance it. And, but then also like keeping both of your eyes open while you're shooting. Like, no one thinks to do that, but you gotta be doing it and you're like, holy shit, when I do it

Gene: 2:58:28

you guys using just iron targets on the, on those guns?

Zak: 2:58:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it was classic. You could choose if you were smaller, you could use, they had a pump, but it was mostly over under and side by side. Everyone shot over under, except like me, I

Gene: 2:58:44

Well, I, I've got red dots on my shotguns.

Zak: 2:58:47

You, you, you little naughty man. You naughty man. Yeah. Shooting slugs. I wanna shoot slugs really badly. I don't think I've ever tried it,

Gene: 2:58:55

you've never shot. There's a lot more, you get hit a lot more, man. That's why. So that's why I brought up this class. So over the course of four days, you shoot about a thousand rounds.

Zak: 2:59:03

Okay. Okay.

Gene: 2:59:05

and let me tell you, the first time I went out there to do the shotgun class after the first day, my right shoulder area

Zak: 2:59:15

Oh, dude, my, my whole farm is,

Gene: 2:59:17

it was so red and just like so sensitive that the second day was just absolutely just murder. I mean, it was like, I

Zak: 2:59:29

It's like playing guitar almost. Yeah. It's like, it's like you're

Gene: 2:59:34

And then on the third day, I just taped everything up with duct tape. I was just like, fuck

Zak: 2:59:39

so funny.

Gene: 2:59:40

I'm just gonna put a layer of duct tape everywhere.

Zak: 2:59:43

That's so funny.

Gene: 2:59:45

believe it or not.

Zak: 2:59:45

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, I, I, I had to shoot incorrectly because if I shot in the spot that like, like kind of over your Peck area it hurt me so badly, it would bruise me instantly, but I, I would have to shoot by my shoulder and it would bruise me really, really easily too, but it would hurt substantially less, and I was way more accurate like that.

Gene: 3:00:08

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and now we've got much better shotguns with more recoil resistant type technologies.

Zak: 3:00:17

but, oh man, it, we were shooting 20, so I, pretty

Gene: 3:00:21

twenties?

Zak: 3:00:22

Wait, no, no. Maybe it was tw. Wait, there's nothing in between 12 and 20, right?

Gene: 3:00:26

Not really.

Zak: 3:00:27

Like realistically,

Gene: 3:00:29

16 gauge is a thing, but there's very few people I shoot. 16

Zak: 3:00:33

I don't think we were shooting. Well, honestly, we might have. I, I'm trying to think. What was it? I, I think maybe we shot 12 like one day, or maybe we shot, I, I think it was 20 mostly, but like, dude, you're, shoot, you probably shoot like a hundred, you shoot I think we each got two packs a day. So like, we would, we would blow through'em pretty quick, but like, if shooting 12 gauge old day would be a pain

Gene: 3:00:59

it's brutal man. It is definitely brutal. You got, you really want to go out. That's what the first thing I did when I got home is I ordered a new stock with a spring in it, Cause I'm like, fuck this shit.

Zak: 3:01:10

Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 3:01:11

I don't need a solid stock. That's like, cuz I had a, a solid stock and it was a 12 gauge and I was like, no way. This sucks.

Zak: 3:01:18

I, I'm a, I'm a sucker for it. We, we went in like, oh yeah, that was really cool. On the, on that, On, it was like a camp thing. We went to this one area where they had like, they a had like every single gauge that has ever existed. I think they had like one gauge, dude, that

Gene: 3:01:38

what?

Zak: 3:01:39

I think that, that, I think that that exists. A, I could be completely mistaken, but I'm pretty sure,

Gene: 3:01:45

seen 10 gauge. I've never seen anything smaller.

Zak: 3:01:47

oh dude, dude, let, wait, let me, let me double check and see if it exists. And I'm not just speaking out of my ass. I know that it, I think I know that there was four they had a how do you spell Gage? G a u g E.

Gene: 3:02:01

G a u g E l.

Zak: 3:02:04

man, I'm wordly wise, really got me through elementary school apparently. Let's see. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yep. dude. Yeah. One and a half is what it says. I think. Look those up, man. Like you Yeah. Cuz we saw 10 for sure. And then

Gene: 3:02:28

Yeah, 10 gauge is, is not nearly as fler as 12. But it's for bigger animals basically.

Zak: 3:02:35

Yeah, exactly.

Gene: 3:02:36

But I've never seen anything under that. I mean, obviously those gauges exist, but I've never seen a gun under 10.

Zak: 3:02:42

so big. I, I, we didn't even, there was no gun. It was just a gauge. I mean, like, I could be completely talking outta my ass, but I really feel like I'm not I'll have to look a little bit harder. And then they, they had like an old Lee that was like the old sniper, right. World War I

Gene: 3:02:57

The

Zak: 3:02:58

Yeah, dude. like with the, with the, with the the bipod thing. But it's just not, it's not a bipod, it's just for you to hold it pretty much. It's a like a circular disc type thing. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Gene: 3:03:12

Mm disc disk.

Zak: 3:03:14

Not a disc, but it's like, it's almost like a how would I explain it? Almost like a plate that's like thick. It's, it's it's, it's like an oval. It's flattened.

Gene: 3:03:26

Hmm.

Zak: 3:03:26

anyway, it's, it's like a tripod bipod. But it's, it's one, and you use it to hold it, because that thing's like 40 plus pounds. That gun

Gene: 3:03:37

Yeah, those old guns are fricking heavy. It's annoying.

Zak: 3:03:40

I mean, like, everyone, when they picked it up, they're like, holy shit. And, and, and you're not. You just, and even though everyone's had that reaction, you're, you're kind of like, man, there's no way they're overreacting. And then you pick it up and you almost drop it. It was It's like, how did people run with this There's no way in hell. And then we gotta try. What,

Gene: 3:04:01

they're annoyingly heavy. I, I really like the lighter guns for the most part.

Zak: 3:04:05

Oh

Gene: 3:04:06

That's why I like modern shit.

Zak: 3:04:07

oh yeah, dude. My, I mean, like, and it looks dope as fuck. I, I, you cannot, you can definitely not say that. Guns do not look cool. There is, it is weird because they're not, there's not, there's, I mean, there's obviously something primal about it, but it, it feels so distinctly primal. But it's not all the, like at the, the look of a gun, the shape of a gun holding one, even though there's nothing really fundamentally primal about it other than a long distance killing machine

Gene: 3:04:38

Yeah. I mean, it's, I think there's knives look way more primal than guns to me.

Zak: 3:04:44

Oh yeah. No, for sure. I'm a big knife guy. I l I love my knives. I want to get my hands on some more butterfly knives.

Gene: 3:04:50

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 3:04:51

Definitely not a legal thing, I think in any

Gene: 3:04:56

I was gonna say, is that even legal in

Zak: 3:04:57

I, I have a lot of training. One, I am live too, and they're kind of broken. I gotta reorder it, but I think they're illegal in every state. I,

Gene: 3:05:06

Butter. Yeah. No, they can't be.

Zak: 3:05:09

yeah. You can get, you can get charged. In some states it's worse than having like a gun.

Gene: 3:05:14

Worse than what?

Zak: 3:05:14

Not a gun. It's a felony to own'em. I know that for sure.

Gene: 3:05:19

Huh? Yeah. I think that's totally dependent on where you live.

Zak: 3:05:22

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man, I'm a big fan. Have you seen Gravity? Knives?

Gene: 3:05:27

yeah. Yeah. I've got butterflies, I've got gravity, I've got stilettos, I've got full automatic

Zak: 3:05:32

Oh, you've still let us.

Gene: 3:05:33

It's all legal in Texas.

Zak: 3:05:35

Oh, oh. So if it's, oh, it is legal in Texas. Okay. So then I'm totally mistaken. Okay.

Gene: 3:05:41

No, you can,

Zak: 3:05:41

yeah, yeah.

Gene: 3:05:43

you can walk around with it. Yeah. One of my favorite knives is a really nice German automatic. I used to push a button, pops up, push a button, pops back in.

Zak: 3:05:50

yeah. That pops back. Yeah. My, my friend actually has one in Colorado. I guess Colorado's kind of, I always forget that it's quite the, for being such a, a, a notably liberal area, I guess, place. It's,

Gene: 3:06:06

Colorado's not really liberal.

Zak: 3:06:07

no, it's not. Definitely

Gene: 3:06:09

cities are totally liberal, but the rest of the state is, it's basically farmland, it's country.

Zak: 3:06:14

I mean, it's country. I, it's country and wilderness, like people are, people are shooting their guns and shit. I mean, my friends and I would, we would go to the res here in California. We went a couple times and we would shoot my friend shotguns and his dad's pistols and stuff like that, go to the res. It's do bad things at the res,

Gene: 3:06:33

All right. Last topic. We've

Zak: 3:06:34

we, we, we gotta go. We gotta go. I have to

Gene: 3:06:37

So I wanna wrap it up. Last question, last controversial topic, or maybe not so controversial. It seems like your generation is having a lot less sex.

Zak: 3:06:47

Dude, I'm gonna tell you what I think it's dependent on, I think. Okay. Okay. Okay. Are you ready for this one? I think it's heavily dependent on, there's a few factors I think that the people like, like, okay, so imagine you when you were younger, right? Like you were super internet focused, gamer nerd, right? Like, my dad got married when he was like 20. He was lucky

Gene: 3:07:20

married to high school, sweetheart.

Zak: 3:07:22

Yeah, yeah, Like he would've, he would've, I I don't, well, I know, I know too much about some of that. About, no, no. I actually don't know a lot about the marriage itself. I know a lot about his sex life during that time anyway. And about why the marriage stayed the way it did. You anyway I'm sure that you do as well. But we look at

Gene: 3:07:44

I, I knew him since the first year he got married.

Zak: 3:07:47

Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think if you look at some, it's really easy to slip into incel culture. I think it's getting a little bit harder nowadays. No, that's not true at all. With the existence of like Andrew Tate likes now and whatever, I think that the younger kids are gonna have to struggle with that a little bit. But once you're fucking, you're fucking, you like, like it is so easy

Gene: 3:08:08

how often are you fucking though?

Zak: 3:08:11

dude.

Gene: 3:08:13

I mean, not you, but I mean, like, the theoretical Zoomer.

Zak: 3:08:17

A again, it's, it is interesting because I think that that is once you fall into the hookup culture, you fall into the hookup culture. Right. But I do think a lot of it is familial. So it's like, are you more of a dater? Are you more of a whatever? Are you more of a whatever. But like, like it's not, it's not not typical for people to be having sex with four different people in a week.

Gene: 3:08:42

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 3:08:44

because you got access to Tinder, you got access to Bumble, hinge grinder, maybe, I don't know. I don't know if kids use it. But it's I think

Gene: 3:08:57

Yeah. It, the, the process definitely seems like it's easier,

Zak: 3:09:01

it is easier. But, but

Gene: 3:09:02

what I'm referring to is more of the apathy aspect.

Zak: 3:09:06

so how so

Gene: 3:09:09

Well, just that I think in a lot of ways this was because there weren't the apps and because there wasn't the internet, I think there was a lot more of a

Zak: 3:09:19

connection that had to

Gene: 3:09:21

by guys of girls or other guys or whatever. But it was generally the males pursuing.

Zak: 3:09:27

Uhhuh.

Gene: 3:09:29

and it was a, a fairly sizable amount of your time that went into

Zak: 3:09:36

Dude, you would be amazed how it's easier to spend a lot, a lot more time, but keep going because you're always connected. Yeah.

Gene: 3:09:45

So, so that's kind of the impression that I got now. And I'll, just to let you know ever since getting divorced, I kind of preferred dating younger women. And

Zak: 3:09:56

gene, big gene,

Gene: 3:09:58

yeah. So I've actually like I've celebrated my, my girlfriend's 21st birthday.

Zak: 3:10:04

Oh, okay.

Gene: 3:10:05

Ah-huh.

Zak: 3:10:06

Okay. Okay. So this is like younger, yeah,

Gene: 3:10:09

your age. Yeah.

Zak: 3:10:10

that's crazy.

Gene: 3:10:11

and what I'm hearing from the girls is that the guys their age are not horribly interested in in having relationships. Like, yes, there is sex, but it's not serious sex. It doesn't lead to anywhere. And frankly, this is why a lot of the girls that age are actually kind of looking for older guys. Maybe not as old as me, but certainly older guys in general, guys in their thirties for sure.

Zak: 3:10:41

so that I know

Gene: 3:10:43

do you think of that?

Zak: 3:10:45

okay. So I have a lot of female friends, right? So I, I, I definitely think

Gene: 3:10:51

Have you slept with all of him?

Zak: 3:10:52

At these, I mean, like, I've, I've met a lot of them on like Tinder and Bumble, honestly. So I have, but like a lot of them are completely platonic. I, I have a really, I have a really weird relationship with sex, but I, I, I, I don't just like, I'm not gonna go and fuck a girl and never talk to her again. Like, that's not me. But I do think guys in my generation, which makes me really sad because I know so many great guys, they're very emotionally immature. And it's something that I see there's so many patterns in humans, but like, one of the biggest ones is definitely like the tribalism of it all. So you look at like, frat guys and everything, and there's cultures inside of that. And that shit grosses me out. Like, I'll be gross. I'll be a little bit of a man whore, right? But like, Form a, like, I'm really good at forming a connection with someone nearly instantly. And I'll form, I'll, I'll get, I'll get information out of girls that they have never told anyone before. Not to, I'm sucking my own dick a little bit here, but it's, it, it, it is true because like then girls will either become obsessed with me as a friend or whatever, and like, I'm completely fine with that. I just met someone new. I love talking to them. But there's some really great guys and there's this facade that all men are whatever. And I'm sure that you'll hear this with your girlfriend, whatever, but all men are whatever. All men are shit. All men are this. And I do have to agree with them a lot of the time, but it's a facade. And they're not looking for the right men because exactly what they're looking for is there. And you can have a gr like a great boyfriend and he can be great at sex, he can be great at whatever, and he's just there looking for a girl, but maybe he's the nervous one, right? Like, he's just a little shy and he, like, for me, it took me a while for me to build my confidence up. Like I'm still scared to e like sometimes I don't know when to make a move. And like, I've slept with a lot of people, right? sucking my own dick again, whatever. But like I still, I, there is, there's a little bit of a Tim there's right now in our culture, You can be a little timid about it all. And I think that it definitely plays a part. I think guys are scared. I think that there's gross in selly men, and then I think that there's the shitty frat guys. They don't even have to be frat guys, but they're just shitty men who do only wanna fuck and they'll be manipulative, whatever. But girls are the same fucking way. Dude.

Gene: 3:13:37

Yeah. And let, let me flip that around instead, like, what's wrong with the chicks in your opinion that are your age? Away

Zak: 3:13:45

my least favorite. Th this is for me, Yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry. Okay. So me personally as someone with the issues that I do have, some of which may be potentially mommy related but, ding, ding, ding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, like I, I, I have, I have quite a few mental issues, right? And I'm not super labeling myself with that. I hate that shit, but I do. And

Gene: 3:14:17

self-awareness is a good thing.

Zak: 3:14:18

Yeah. Yeah. But they're again, my generation, they're getting better at it. I've been trying, I, I, dude, I pull that was another thing that I was gonna say, especially with the woke shit is like, I like pulling people to reality. But anyway ghosting girls that ghost Girls that I have formed a relationship with, who all of a sudden just fucking block me. It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. It's like, oh. I thought like, why can't you just like do the due diligence of you? You decided to form this relationship. You do not get, just tell me, dude. Just tell me, give me a reason. Be like, Hey, like, I'm sorry. I don't really feel like there's a connection or like, I like you, but like, I don't think that we're really like a good fit or like, I don't think we should be friends, whatever. Just fucking tell me, don't just disappear. Don't just block me. Like that shit's gross and nothing pisses me off more than that. And nothing makes me more upset. And just like, I think I, I think I put a lot into it. I have abandonment issues for sure. And that shit, that is a very common theme with girls and I don't know how many guys do it. But I know for, damn, I, it's definitely something that girls tend to do more as well as they do generalize men. And I think that that is also something that makes me pretty sad because for me, I, I just see, I make comparisons a lot between people, but I, I always see people as an individual. Like I don't, I don't see, like, I see them, I see past all their bullshit, all this, all whatever they cover themselves with. Another, like, again, like I said, pulling people back to reality, like trying to remove all these fake layers that they put on themselves and just bringing out their truest self. That's, that's one of my biggest goals. And I think that, it's just like, dude, this isn't you. Like why do this? Why, like what, what do you gain from doing that? Like, it's obviously you power tripping. Like, at least like, I, I do think that there is a sense of morality that has been lost and a sense of pride and a sense of what's the word I'm looking for? You probably know exactly what I'm trying to say. It's it's kind of like dignity. It's kind of like all the words that I just said. It's something that your generation would say that we, we lack a lot of. No, no, but like, for real, for real. I

Gene: 3:16:59

hmm. I don't know. I'm not sure.

Zak: 3:17:01

like, like, like, kind of like morals, but respect.

Gene: 3:17:05

Yeah. Respect's certainly a part of it. I mean, you don't, like, you wouldn't just go somebody because that shows a complete lack of respect.

Zak: 3:17:14

like, it's just like, dude, I, I was so nice to you. Like, I, like, there were moments in our conversations where I wanted to shoot myself, but like, not our conversation by the way. I'm just saying like, with a girl and it's like, I pushed past that. But like, you and I was nice to you and I, and I showed you like some things that I don't think you've realized about yourself or whatever. Like, I think I helped you in a way. I, like, it was clear that my intention wasn't just to fuck you or like whatever. Like why Show me no respect. Jesus Christ. What's the word I'm looking for?

Gene: 3:17:58

Hmm.

Zak: 3:17:59

not pride. It's like one of those words I can't remember it.

Gene: 3:18:03

Me know when you think of it, but I, yeah, that makes

Zak: 3:18:06

does that make Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could

Gene: 3:18:09

I don't think would be like, that definitely is related to the way the communication starts as well.

Zak: 3:18:16

Yeah.

Gene: 3:18:17

Because if you kept seeing somebody at the same bar over and over and then you finally approached them and you got into a relationship, it's really hard for them to ghost you. Cuz that means they're gonna have to stop going to all the same places they're used to going.

Zak: 3:18:30

Yeah. Unless you're Oh,

Gene: 3:18:33

But when you meet somebody online through an app that totally lives, like not next door to you and doesn't go to the same bar as you and all this other stuff, it's, it makes it a lot simpler to do.

Zak: 3:18:44

A hundred percent. And it's, and your, your, your relationship was initiated online. It wasn't in person, and it doesn't even matter. Like, like, I hate it when people just will stop talking to you out of the blue. But like, me personally, like my O C D really impacts the way that I text and type like I have to call people. That's a long story, but it, it can take me like 20 minutes to send a two word text message.

Gene: 3:19:08

Mm-hmm.

Zak: 3:19:09

it can be really intense and like, I feel awful not responding to people. I have like 1,200 unread text messages on my phone.

Gene: 3:19:17

how much

Zak: 3:19:18

It's like 1,200. A lot of them are like spam, but it doesn't

Gene: 3:19:21

unread text messages. Jesus Christ.

Zak: 3:19:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene: 3:19:25

generally have zero unread

Zak: 3:19:27

ex. No, no, no. But that's, that's like, but like, that's, that's mostly due to me, like, that's mostly due to my O C D and me also just being kind of sometimes unconscious or forgetting. I mean, like, you, you experienced it firsthand. I was actually, surprisingly, surprisingly good with you. But like you did, and I, you, you see how like, like that, I don't want to not give you respect. I don't like, like you deserve more

Gene: 3:19:56

Well, you're very polite and stuff, but you're just like

Zak: 3:20:00

No, I'm shitty. I'm fucking, yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, I, it doesn't matter. I mean, like, I try to recuperate as best as I can, but like, like, it's not my intention ever. But it doesn't feel like that. Right? Like, that's not

Gene: 3:20:13

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and again, it's like, I, it's not a big deal cuz I could do this recording anytime, but the issue is when somebody sets a time if they don't show up, it's kinda like, well shit, something really bad must have happened. It's like, oh yeah, you were fucking fishing for deep sea fishing instead.

Zak: 3:20:31

yeah. Dude, dude, I totally thought I was coming back on the sixth. I, I looked at my phone the day we were coming back and I was like, oh my God. It's not the sixth. It is

Gene: 3:20:43

Yeah. Well you caught some good fish. So that's, that's

Zak: 3:20:45

Yeah. You see that Dorado? That was me. That was me, baby. I have

Gene: 3:20:48

yeah. I've gotten fishing with your dad a couple times and then I've always enjoyed going deep sea. It's, I don't do it

Zak: 3:20:53

I, I like Lake

Gene: 3:20:55

ain't cheap,

Zak: 3:20:55

So much more fun. Yeah,

Gene: 3:20:57

but it is really fun.

Zak: 3:20:58

it is really fun. Oh, that,

Gene: 3:20:59

know, I mean, you're also sticking something in the mouth of a fish and then killing.

Zak: 3:21:03

oh yeah. Especially a Dorado man. Like, look at that fish. Like look at that thing. That thing's beautiful. And

Gene: 3:21:10

That cool looking fish,

Zak: 3:21:11

I'm a bit, I like lake fishing, which also reminded me of that rodent in Louisiana that's like eating all the marsh. I forgot what they're called. It's similar to the bore problem that you guys have, except way worse. It's like Lama set. Lar Larman. Larman. Yeah. I don't remember what it's called, but they lamo. I almost just said Lamotrigine. That's that's Claritin. That's not That's not an animal. Anyway. You like, some people make a hundred thousand dollars a year because there's a bounty on'em because they're so invasive and they're destroying all the marsh

Gene: 3:21:42

and which, what critters are these?

Zak: 3:21:44

they're these rodents, they're huge rodents, nutrients. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, that's kind

Gene: 3:21:51

for those. Yeah, for sure.

Zak: 3:21:54

that when we were talking about the bores, that's what that was

Gene: 3:21:57

Yeah. Yeah. They're like big rats. The bores are, you can actually, I think the bores taste a lot better, first of all.

Zak: 3:22:02

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Actually, apparently, I think you can eat the nutri. Apparently they're

Gene: 3:22:07

I've seen people on YouTube. I would not I just, I just have zero interest le Oh, I got fucking pet snakes. I don't need to eat the same thing they do.

Zak: 3:22:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I think I have to skedaddle right now.

Gene: 3:22:24

Yeah. No, that's cool, dude. Well, I appreciate the the long ass

Zak: 3:22:29

Really long as dude.

Gene: 3:22:31

You could have said the same stuff in about an hour and a half, but I wasn't gonna interrupt you. That's fine. I don't mind having a longer episode. That's, that's perfectly okay.

Zak: 3:22:39

you know what like I said, I like talking.

Gene: 3:22:43

Yeah, you do

Zak: 3:22:44

man. Well, I'm also a little dazed and confused. I'm just out of it. But I would love to, I think, I think in a couple days I'll definitely be more focused and everything. So if you ever wanna I'm, I'm here for it, man. Like, I, I want, I want

Gene: 3:22:59

Well, I'm, I'm happy just chat in general, but you know, I, I don't need two episodes of you one way after the other, that's for sure.

Zak: 3:23:04

Yeah. Yeah. That's for damn sure. They don't want to hear me talk that long. Yeah,

Gene: 3:23:08

dude, you're gonna, you're gonna stir some reactions guaranteed on

Zak: 3:23:12

Oh, really?

Gene: 3:23:12

what my audience

Zak: 3:23:13

That you think that they're

Gene: 3:23:14

you definitely gonna trigger some

Zak: 3:23:16

Yeah. Yeah. Get triggered. Get get triggered. Leftists.

Gene: 3:23:22

No, I mean, the right

Zak: 3:23:22

here, Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Fuck you. No, I'm, I'm just kidding. Well, I I sure as hell appreciate talking to Eugene. I miss you as well. Haven't seen you in a while.

Gene: 3:23:34

Yeah, it's, it has been a while and

Zak: 3:23:37

forever. Yeah. We're coming out to Texas. We're shooting guns. We're

Gene: 3:23:40

yeah, definitely, definitely doing that. Yeah, I still I used to be in there quite a bit more frequent. I'm trying to think what, the last time I was out in San Diego was, I wanna say maybe four and a half, five years ago.

Zak: 3:23:51

I don't think that's when we saw each other last though. We

Gene: 3:23:54

Okay. So it was even before then.

Zak: 3:23:55

We saw each other somewhere else. I remember that. You got

Gene: 3:23:58

Oh, okay.

Zak: 3:24:00

I think you were with your mom.

Gene: 3:24:02

With my mom. No, she would, like, my parents hadn't traveled outside of Seattle for years.

Zak: 3:24:10

Where was it?

Gene: 3:24:12

Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. No, you're thinking like in in central Valley, in California. There in

Zak: 3:24:16

it was somewhere.

Gene: 3:24:18

were you out there? I know, I remember Mike was out there. That was the last trip that my parents took to California

Zak: 3:24:24

Yeah, yeah.

Gene: 3:24:24

that was probably like, mean, my mom died last year, so that's probably like, six years ago,

Zak: 3:24:32

Oh yeah, dude.

Gene: 3:24:34

five or six.

Zak: 3:24:35

Yeah. I'm probably the same height as I was, honestly. But I I look slightly less like a child

Gene: 3:24:40

Yeah. Okay. I don't, I don't, I didn't even remember that time. I mean, I was just like,

Zak: 3:24:45

Well, get triggered. Righties. Get outta here. Righties. Yeah. You're all like qan on, suck on that

Gene: 3:24:53

there's not a whole lot of qan Aon, I've done quite a few episodes as that make fun of qan, but they're definitely is

Zak: 3:24:58

I, cuz I said that there is the,

Gene: 3:25:00

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I did a, I did a survey recently and what we had is

Zak: 3:25:04

How many

Gene: 3:25:05

is

Zak: 3:25:05

listen to this by the way?

Gene: 3:25:06

It kind of varies. I've got about 2000 people that follow me and it, it, the, there's fewer than that. Listen, per episode. I mean, it's probably closer to a thousand, but it's gonna depend. Yeah.

Zak: 3:25:20

I'm gonna be famous in a second.

Gene: 3:25:22

Oh, yeah. I don't know about that. I, I'm pretty sure your dad's podcast is way more active there.

Zak: 3:25:28

Yeah. Well, next time I'll write out a list for you and we will stick to topics.

Gene: 3:25:33

They, well, if you wanna, if you want to interview me, I'm up for that as well at some point.

Zak: 3:25:38

Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna have to send me more about yourself. Cuz I kind

Gene: 3:25:42

Well, that's the point of doing an interview. Dumb. I ask you get to ask questions. I get to answer'em

Zak: 3:25:47

so wise.

Gene: 3:25:49

that I am.

Zak: 3:25:50

you're so wise. Well,

Gene: 3:25:52

All right, dude. It's, it's getting late. It's two hours later for me than for you.

Zak: 3:25:57

Oh my God. Yeah. Go

Gene: 3:25:58

And I'm still awake and

Zak: 3:26:00

about to play some star

Gene: 3:26:01

per probably not, probably not tonight anymore. It's 1:00 AM

Zak: 3:26:06

Yeah.

Gene: 3:26:07

But either way. I appreciate you coming out. I appreciate the honesty in there, and I, even though it's, it's gonna serve some controversy, I think it's great.

Zak: 3:26:15

know what? I want to hear the controversy, responding to hate comments. I'm

Gene: 3:26:19

I will, I will definitely let you know. All right.

Zak: 3:26:22

By way. I do want to do one more note. I promise you I'm not that I might have sounded a little egotistical here and there. I promise you guys,

Gene: 3:26:30

Just a little bit.

Zak: 3:26:31

I'm not that much. I, I, I also am very sarcastic and sometimes that doesn't come across well, but

Gene: 3:26:37

doesn't come across in audio. Yeah. Video helps with that for That's a good point.

Zak: 3:26:42

don't know. I don't know. But

Gene: 3:26:43

I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit the stop button

Zak: 3:26:45

hit the stop button.