Sir Gene 0:15

This is sir gene with dude named Ben named Ben. How are you this morning? Ben?

Ben 0:20

I'm doing well, Jean. Yourself.

Sir Gene 0:22

I'm pretty good. Pretty good.

Ben 0:25

Good? Yeah. It's been a hell of a week, man.

Sir Gene 0:28

Yeah. What's happening

Ben 0:30

Uh, well, there was a mass shooting for one,

Sir Gene 0:35

really? Where's that?

Ben 0:38

uh, here in Texas. So, uh, yeah. Interesting details coming out about it. The thing that's most disturbing to me is the actions that the police decided to take.

Sir Gene 0:48

No disturbing, but not surprising.

Ben 0:52

uh, no,

Sir Gene 0:53

Where were you surprised?

Ben 0:55

well, it is somewhat surprising to me that officers went in. Apparently let me allegedly, let me couch my language here. A little bit. Officers apparently went into the school to save their own children, but did not do a general evacuation and then prevented, um, parents from going in themselves. So even, even to the point, uh, even to the point of tasing, one father, while you know, 18 children were killed.

Sir Gene 1:24

Yeah. Yeah. It's a very sad circumstance. I do think it is a, a great, uh, reason, a great motivator to have more parents look at home.

Ben 1:40

100%, uh, you know, where I stand on schools, but to me, the problem is this, this is being couched as yet another school shooting. And it just, it isn't. Uh, so first of all, the police were engaged with him before he went into the school. He should have never been allowed to go into the school. They should have followed him in immediately. This idea of lockdowns and shelter in place in school incidents. Like this is absolutely asinine. It's what led to this tragedy. Had the police gone in after him fought a firefight with him and never disengaging and backing off there would have been more kids alive today.

Sir Gene 2:21

Yeah. And, and had there not been kids in that school? He wouldn't have gotten in there.

Ben 2:25

well, there is that, but you know, the, the messed up thing is that, uh, there's apparently, uh, he said four years ago that when he was a senior, he was going to do this. And, you know, then there's a questions about how he got the rifle that he had, uh, you know,

Sir Gene 2:43

Well, he was 18.

Ben 2:44

No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about the cost of the rifle.

Sir Gene 2:47

well,

Ben 2:48

I mean he had a Daniel defense rifle. I mean it all in that was a two grand, two grand God, this is not a cheap

Sir Gene 2:55

oh really? I thought it was just a cheap, ER.

Ben 2:57

no, this was a Daniel defense. High-end AR.

Sir Gene 3:01

Hm.

Ben 3:03

So, Yeah. I mean, I don't even have that guns. I have different guns, but, you know, Hey,

Sir Gene 3:10

Yeah. I didn't realize that.

Ben 3:12

yeah, yeah. So that, that kind of raises some questions on how did he get a$2,000 rifle?

Sir Gene 3:19

I'll be, I be selling that stack right now, because more than likely that company is going to be on the list of banned guns.

Ben 3:26

Well, Daniel, the fence is privately owned, so, um, You know, ho well, hopefully they survive it. I mean, they're a good company and I would hate, I hate to see them go under, they, they, uh, they were

Sir Gene 3:38

want one there again to get it. Now I'm telling you they're going to be out of business. This is what happens for a whole bunch of companies. Back in the nineties, when the Clinton gun ban came into effect, they just went bankrupt.

Ben 3:50

yeah, but part of that was the product they were selling. They were no longer allowed to manufacturer sell. So,

Sir Gene 3:57

You don't think that's going to happen though?

Ben 3:59

uh, we will see, so I, I definitely think Biden has, I mean, this is Sandy hook 2.0. Um, and you know, I'm, I'm gonna be very careful about what I say given, you know, Alice Jones being bankrupted by that. But, um, this is definitely Biden pulling out the exact same playbook that they ran after Sandy hook.

Sir Gene 4:23

yeah, don't let it any kid's death go to.

Ben 4:27

Not at all. And then you had bed or Rourke, uh, standing up during a press conference that Abbott was giving an heckling Abbott and the reaction. Uh, I think Beto just totally any, any danger of Beto winning the gubernatorial race in Texas, I think is over now. Uh, he totally shot himself in the foot. Um, Abbott has come out and really backtracked his original statements around police. Uh, he was very praising of officer's actions and so on. But now that this has come out, that there was delayed action that they went in, that they stopped parents and all this. Now he's being very hypercritical of the police and even calling for an investigation into what happened. So,

Sir Gene 5:11

I'm still standing by the defund, the police thing. I just don't know any situations. I'm not aware of any where the police actually prevented a death. I know plenty of situations where police cause a death and plenty of situations where police were incidental to the death. I don't know of any single one where police Bruin it, they show up late, or if they show up on time, they don't do anything.

Ben 5:39

yeah. So one of the things that you have to understand about the police and policing in general, and, you know, we have this idea of crime prevention. That's bullshit. You cannot prevent a crime. All you can do is prosecuted crime after it has happened. And you know

Sir Gene 5:59

he can prevent a crime homeschool your kids people.

Ben 6:02

Well, that's not preventing a crime. That's just preventing your child from being a victim of a

Sir Gene 6:07

Well, there you go.

Ben 6:10

Anyway, the, the, the point is take the, I mean, you could even go the route of, uh, I guess Switzerland and arm, every able-bodied adult, you know,

Sir Gene 6:22

Okay. Now, now we're talking

Ben 6:24

take the police budget and arm the adults. Uh, give them some training,

Sir Gene 6:29

I would think that, uh, firearms, proficiency outta be on the test for teachers to get hired.

Ben 6:36

I don't know that I would go that far. I wouldn't force a teacher to

Sir Gene 6:41

No, I just wouldn't hire him. If you, if you're not going to use a gun to defend the children in your class, you shouldn't be a teacher.

Ben 6:47

Well, there are lots of.

Sir Gene 6:49

uh, a surgeon who is, uh, uh, who is homophobic. Doesn't want to treat people that are gay. It's like, maybe you shouldn't be a surgeon, but you got to be concerned about humans, not what, what they look like. Or in this case, you shouldn't be concerned about, uh, you know, pro or against second amendment. If you're going to be, uh, having children under your care, then you damn well better be able to do.

Ben 7:18

Yeah. So the thing I'll say is there is some potential that you need. So where does the gun get stored? Is the gun on the teacher's person at all times? Are all teachers saying rational people? I don't think so. Especially given some of the photos and lives of talk that we've

Sir Gene 7:36

trust your kid to them?

Ben 7:38

Jane we've had this discussion. I

Sir Gene 7:40

And this is why I'm

Ben 7:41

schools should exist.

Sir Gene 7:43

That's my point. Like you're arguing against your own points in the past.

Ben 7:47

None at all.

Sir Gene 7:48

we didn't have public schools, we wouldn't have these issues.

Ben 7:53

agreed.

Sir Gene 7:54

It's the public schools.

Ben 7:56

Well it's society. It's the way we have, uh, a lot we've coddled

Sir Gene 8:02

Has there ever been a mass shooting from a child who wasn't the product of public schools.

Ben 8:10

Not that I'm aware of,

Sir Gene 8:11

And I don't think there has that's what's causing these kids to go insane.

Ben 8:16

Well, there's

Sir Gene 8:17

setting them

Ben 8:18

there's lots of things. I mean, it's not just the public schools, It's the overall infantilization of our children and this idea that I was bullied. So screw you, I'm going to do whatever. I mean, you know, we don't teach our kids, uh, how to stand up to anyone anymore. And, you know, I mean, it w w when I went to public school, so the last two years of high school, I went to public school, uh, mainly just as a, somewhat of an experimental my own. And it was a small town, very clique-ish, uh, on an Indian reservation. So you want to talk about racism. There is not racism in the south there's racism around Indian reservations in the Northwest. Trust me anyway, regardless, um, some kids tried to bully me and there were some incidents and the school told me not to, uh, not to fight back, not to engage. And I told them screw that you'll have to suspend me. You'll do whatever, but no, I'm not just going to sit there and take this. And, uh, regardless, um, what ended up happening was I got into some fights. I fought back. People didn't mess with me after that. And the school tried to suspend me and my parents said, no, he did. Wasn't the aggressor. He didn't do anything. He just defended himself. Well, we've got a zero tolerance policy against fighting that right there is what is fucking up public school and public school kids. Because this idea that violence is never the answer, screw that someone hits you, someone does something to push you or take it to that point. Yeah. Fight back. Don't let it just eat you alive to the point where you're going to go do something like this

Sir Gene 10:06

Absolutely. And I think. Uh, this goes in line with what I'm saying, which is that you have to counter violence with violence. The teachers should be armed. I'm not saying armed the kids. I'm not willing to go that far, although that may not be a horrible idea.

Ben 10:23

Well, I mean it, my dad's generation, they had gun clubs in high school. Right. They, they literally would take guns to school to go shoot at guns.

Sir Gene 10:32

Yeah, absolutely. But it's, uh, it, it is ridiculous to have a building full of armed, armed people that is just prime for some crazy nut to go. I mean, you look at it, it's literally the safest place for somebody to go have a rampage.

Ben 10:56

Yeah, that in a

Sir Gene 10:56

No, one's going to be shooting back. Well, movie theaters these days. I think there's plenty of people carrying.

Ben 11:01

Uh, well, so do you know the way Congress passed the firearms ban on schools?

Sir Gene 11:08

Hmm.

Ben 11:09

So Congress, this is the and so the commerce clause of the constitution is very often abused, like to an extreme. So the commerce clause was used in banning, uh, weapons on school premises by Congress saying that because children are going to be instrumental to interstate commerce, we therefore have authority over it, Which is at our bullshit. The Congress should have 0, 0, 0, say in state schools.

Sir Gene 11:42

Yup.

Ben 11:43

Yeah. We allow them to do this.

Sir Gene 11:46

Yep. Every country has the government they deserve. And this is a consequence.

Ben 11:54

Yeah. Unfortunately. Yes, that is true. I mean, it should have been that when that law passed there should have been mass uproar over just the overreach that it constitutes you. Everyone should have said, Hey, hands off our schools, you have Congress, you have no say in this, the department of education, we could go down a long list of unconstitutional things that we live with every day.

Sir Gene 12:25

Yeah. Well, they, they, they almost got the department of propaganda put in

Ben 12:32

Well, they're still funding it.

Sir Gene 12:33

Yeah.

Ben 12:34

So it's still funded. And her resignation does not appear to, um, affect, uh, the, her status over said department. So it remains to be seen, I think, quite frankly, it's a, so Nina is who we're talking about and, you know, it appears that she is still going to have a role and it

Sir Gene 12:58

the singing protagonists.

Ben 13:00

yes, the scary Poppins as I've

Sir Gene 13:03

Mary Poppins is right.

Ben 13:05

Um, so, and just definitely just a weird, weird woman. I mean, who makes show tunes? Like I just, I don't regardless, um,

Sir Gene 13:17

and there's been, uh, some segments on shows, talking about how, when you can look at her statements over the course of several years, about the need for this, what she's clearly focused on is the need to fix political speech in the United States

Ben 13:39

yeah,

Sir Gene 13:40

effectively prevent people from being able to express their political views in a way that the state, the, which is AKA, the Democrat controlled state wants to hear.

Ben 13:53

well, so it is political correctness and political correct speech taken to an extreme in the idea that anyone who says anything counter to this should be censored, that that's what's disturbing. Um, essentially it is the us government taking a state propaganda line saying this is the official party line. Um, previous we've only seen this in communist and theocratic, dictatorial states. I mean, even I, even the Nazis didn't take a state line approach quite like this. Literally we've only seen this out of like malice, China, the Russians didn't even USSR didn't take quite that big of attack. Although some would

Sir Gene 14:43

it was pretty strong. Cause there was no private press in the Russia. So really press was purely say controlled.

Ben 14:50

Press was purely state controlled, but it okay. I'll concede that one,

Sir Gene 14:56

No, I'm, I'm, I'm throwing the USSR and China into the exact same basket there.

Ben 15:01

man. I don't know. I mean, Mao's cultural revolution took it to a different level. More people died under than anyone else, so,

Sir Gene 15:09

They, they did. They did. Um, for sure, but I think that in this particular topic, as far as, you know, government state controlled, uh, speech, I think that in the very early days of the revolution in the Russia, there were some dissenting voices, but by the time Stalin came to really lead the party, all of those dissenting voices were eliminated and that's really when things kicked into, I think what most people think of is the USSR, which is complete to tell. Which was really happened probably within six months to a year after Stalin became the, uh, the, uh, I forget the title of what was those, the, the premier of the party or something like that effectively, the guy who is undisputably leading the party and in the single party state, that means he's leading the state.

Ben 16:15

Have you ever seen the movie, the death of. If for anyone who hasn't seen it, it's hilarious.

Sir Gene 16:20

Yeah. And it's, it's funny. It's a little cheesy. It has, it has really good actors, but playing kind of cheesy parts. Everything's a little cranked up to 11.

Ben 16:30

I don't know. I think it's a pretty accurate to pick,

Sir Gene 16:33

yeah. Super accurate, but it is based on realistic, uh, sequence of events.

Ben 16:40

it is a little bit of a cartoon version of the USSR, but it was definitely enjoyable to watch.

Sir Gene 16:48

yeah. Cruise chef's character was hilarious.

Ben 16:50

Oh, definitely.

Sir Gene 16:52

Hey, I got a new joke.

Ben 16:53

What's up.

Sir Gene 16:55

No, that's cruise chef's character. He's always trying out new jokes.

Ben 16:58

Yes, indeed.

Sir Gene 16:59

Yeah. He wants to be the, the popular guy. Um,

Ben 17:05

ended up running the country? So, you know, Hey,

Sir Gene 17:07

I kept coming to the U S to first Russian, uh, well, Soviet premier to do that. But, uh, but they, they really didn't know what to do with him when he died. I mean, that, that was totally real,

Ben 17:23

well, admitting that he died was a big deal.

Sir Gene 17:26

Yeah. Cause you're just like, you don't know, who's going to try and grab the power structure and seek some vengeance

Ben 17:33

Well,

Sir Gene 17:34

messenger often gets killed.

Ben 17:36

Yeah. absolutely. And it was definitely a time that, uh, the communist party was very worried about a counter-revolution kicking off too. So that's part of the hesitancy that they all had for sure.

Sir Gene 17:49

Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's probably worth watching. It is kind of a funny movie, but it just keeping in mind, this is not

Ben 17:56

it's a, funny movie. it's up there?

Sir Gene 17:58

a comedy based on the death of Stalin

Ben 18:00

Well, let, let's put it this way. I would put it up there with some of the better Mel Brooks movies. Okay.

Sir Gene 18:05

now, what do you mean? Those are totally documentaries.

Ben 18:09

Yes. Spaceballs is totally documentary.

Sir Gene 18:12

Yeah. It's uh, talks about the future. Yeah, absolutely. Um, with John Candy's a character was awesome on that one.

Ben 18:19

Barf.

Sir Gene 18:20

Barf was it half dog, half

Ben 18:24

I have some dog, half, half dog, half man. A mug.

Sir Gene 18:29

Uh, too

Ben 18:30

funny. She doesn't look Jewish. Sorry. Oh, man. So happy birthday by the

Sir Gene 18:37

Oh, thanks.

Ben 18:39

35. Right?

Sir Gene 18:41

Thirty-five every year. Yep. Yeah, that was, that was kinda the age at which I decided, um, that, that I like I've, I've gotten to where I want to be. I don't really need to go further.

Ben 18:56

Okay. You peaked early.

Sir Gene 18:58

Well, I don't know if that's really, man. I think a historically that's actually somewhat late, a lot. A lot of people, uh, used to peak in their late twenties

Ben 19:09

I mean,

Sir Gene 19:10

nowadays. They live at home until they're in their late twenties.

Ben 19:13

um, I, so I'm, I'm 35. I'll be 36, uh, here in

Sir Gene 19:19

There you go. Well, consider, uh, just repeating 35,

Ben 19:23

yeah, no, I just hope to hell I have paid if I have, oh, I can do better than this. Come on now.

Sir Gene 19:33

um sure, sure. Yeah. Can you keep that going for awhile?

Ben 19:38

So you got a new scope for your birthday?

Sir Gene 19:41

I did. I was completely random and that planned, but it ended up happening. So yeah, it was a fact that I was thinking I'm getting rid of my other Aycock when, uh, this guy, this Aycock popped up. I got a, uh, one of the 3 0 8, a cogs, which is a. Uh, six X by 48 millimeter lens. This thing's huge,

Ben 20:12

Yeah, it's definitely got

Sir Gene 20:13

like the size of your forearm. It's a huge objective lens. And, um, uh, Emma, just so it turned out that, um, a friend of mine was replacing that scope and I was like, wow, I've just, I've never even seen one of these in person because, uh, this is an expensive, rare thing it's typically. Yeah, I think I forget who it's used by, but, uh, I think it's, it's either the Marine snipers or, um, uh, not snipers a Marine. I don't know some kind of troops or it's the green Berets or somebody anyway, it's like, this is not common in the military, but it is absolutely a military product.

Ben 21:00

Typically it's on a designated rifle, uh, you know, um, designated marksman rifle, um, that sort of thing. And usually it is the Marines that use that particular optic. Um, but Yeah. it's a, it's a, it's a beast.

Sir Gene 21:16

It is a beast. And so when I was looking at it, he's like, oh, why do you want it? Don't buy it. Like may be depends. Cause I know these things go for about 3000 bucks. So I'm like, yeah. And I'm in the market for$3,000 scope. It says, well, why don't you take it home, put it on your rifle, CIF, uh, if it fits water in it. And

Ben 21:42

kind of you putting it on?

Sir Gene 21:44

so, uh, I think it's actually got replaced the site on my, uh, on my 3 0 8 iwi

Ben 21:51

Oh on the divorce seven. There you go.

Sir Gene 21:54

because the, the night vision optic that I had on there, no joke was exactly the same length as the gun. And I think I'm probably going to put the night vision on a, um, on a non bullpup gun, because I don't like the idea of the front of the optic being at the same forward distance as the barrel.

Ben 22:21

Th that's a little odd that it's that

Sir Gene 22:24

It is, it is over a foot long. It's about 69. It's probably more like 14 inches long. All of a sudden the,

Ben 22:32

Okay. So what you're saying is because of the bullpup and where you Mount the scope, it's getting close to the end of the, barrel.

Sir Gene 22:39

it is at the end of the barrel literally.

Ben 22:42

Well, I mean, you didn't get an SBR version, so you got a 16 inch barrel. Overall. LinkedIn is gotta be 36 inches.

Sir Gene 22:48

Oh no. It's, I think it's less than that

Ben 22:51

Uh, I think legally not to be considering. SBR has gotta be 32

Sir Gene 22:56

even for Bullpups.

Ben 22:57

Yeah.

Sir Gene 22:58

Well, whatever it is.

Ben 22:59

length.

Sir Gene 23:00

Whatever it is, that particular gun is the shortest legal length gun. And you can have a, so if it's 32, then that's what it is. But, but yeah, that's scope went right up to the edge of the barrel and, uh, yeah, I find them getting a, um, you know, uh, silence or something on there then that would lengthen them for sure. But I don't know. It just, I started getting nervous about having an expensive scope on top of a gun with a barrel that's at the same length as the front of the scope.

Ben 23:36

so I'm going to correct myself right now in real time from atf.com. Uh, so to qualify, to not qualify as a short barrel rifle and not be an NFA item, the gun has to be at least 26. inches long with a 16 inch barrel.

Sir Gene 23:51

Yeah. That's so that's what it is. It's 26 inches long with a 16 inch barrel.

Ben 23:55

Gotcha.

Sir Gene 23:56

Yup. So, which is great. I love having something that's compact, but, uh, I never would have thought about this because it is a, a, a night scope. It has a bunch of electronics in it, which lengthens the scope. And then it has a, um, a infrared laser on it for measuring. And that lengthens it a little bit and all these things, and then it has a soft ICAP on it. And so, I mean, again, it's like, it's probably doable, but I think over time I would just start getting a following on the front lens.

Ben 24:45

Well, and not only that, but depending on what type of flashlight or whatever you've got going on there, that being that close could definitely not be optimal to say the least.

Sir Gene 24:55

yeah. So that will go on a different gun. Um, this thing will then just go on the, uh, on the,

Ben 25:06

the only thing I don't like about the, a cogs is just the fixed power. You know, I, I, I, you know, we, we talked before about, you know, some of the other styles, scopes, I really liked the like one to six power

Sir Gene 25:21

So he ordered a one to eight. That's what he's replacing it on his gun,

Ben 25:25

yeah. It's fantastic.

Sir Gene 25:27

um, yeah. Um, but this thing has a, a, and you can see it in the photo. Uh, it has a continuing rail integrated on top.

Ben 25:37

Yup.

Sir Gene 25:38

So it is literally just slapping on my, read that on top of there,

Ben 25:43

What red dot are you gonna put on top?

Sir Gene 25:45

I'm kind of thinking I'm going to standardize in the SIG ones. I bought one. I like it. I'm going to just start buying more of this.

Ben 25:52

Uh, you ought to look at some of the little teeny, like pistol size, um,

Sir Gene 25:58

Well

Ben 25:59

red dots, just because since you've already got the weight of that cargo on there, I would, I would go with something small.

Sir Gene 26:07

And SIG does make small ones, but somewhere, I don't know where the hell it is. I could probably look for it. I have a Trijicon read that. That goes, that is literally made for that. It goes on top of there. Um, I couldn't find it last time I looked for it. Um, I know I bought it like back in 2011 and it's somewhere. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have thrown it away cause it's like 400 bucks. But uh, for the life of me, I could not find it.

Ben 26:37

it sounds like Jean needs to have a, a garage sale or, you know?

Sir Gene 26:42

Oh my God. I just so neat to have a garage sale. That's absolutely true. I have dining room tables. I have all kinds of shits in the garage that just is not getting used, needs to get sold.

Ben 26:54

Yeah. My, so my wife is a minimalist. She would throw away anything or donate it to Goodwill or get rid of, and I'm the opposite. So it's a definitely, it's one of those things.

Sir Gene 27:09

minimalist, but practically I'm not really one.

Ben 27:11

No, it's funny because it's, it's always the, well that can go into your office that can go into, oh shit. I'm going to need a bigger office.

Sir Gene 27:19

Exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah. It's it is. Um, I will definitely stick something on there. That's just not magnified

Ben 27:30

yeah.

Sir Gene 27:31

just to have on there, but weight wise, it's also a little bit lighter than the night scope.

Ben 27:37

Yeah. And you know, with the bullpup, the rearward center of gravity helps you out a lot with weight. Um, I've got, uh, a bullpup that I built out a few years back, well, 15 years back that, uh, you know, you throw a 50 round or a hundred round drum underneath it. It's, it's amazing how much lighter that feels then, you know, if you were to put that same drum on an AR AR 10, just because of where it's at, you know,

Sir Gene 28:07

which bullpup did you have

Ben 28:10

uh, people are gonna make fun of me on this one.

Sir Gene 28:14

was a Ruger 10, 20 or something,

Ben 28:17

No, no, no. So I, I had, um, some SKSs from The nineties and, uh, there was a bullpup kit for the SKS that I went through and put in just for shits and giggles and, uh, surprisingly functional. And actually to me, a decent upgrade to the gun, but a lot of people, you know, I'll leave the SKS as it is. Don't Bubba fly your SKS or whatever, but,

Sir Gene 28:49

problem with those upgrade kits is usually the trigger.

Ben 28:52

well, so, uh, most, almost any bullpup is going to have a. Eh trigger. So this has a solid, fairly solid linkage that it required some fitting, it required some tweaking and getting the linkage just Right? for that particular trigger, but let's face it. The SKS doesn't have a great trigger to begin with. This is, this was a toy. It is not by any means what I would consider a battle rifle of any

Sir Gene 29:20

It's your last resort gum,

Ben 29:22

Well, now it's a fun gun to take to the range and shoot, and you know, the, the SPS is a heavy gun. Um, it's a machine gun. It's a very, you know, there's some good things about the SKS in lots of ways. Um, you've got a 20, some odd inch barrel into this. Bullpup configuration it. It's, it's a very different beast and, you know, people who give people crap about the magazines and everything else, it's, uh, you know, uh, old rifle that has been upgraded, you know, the, the is a perfect example. Should we have left the Gran with just stripper clip feeds or is the MRA a decent upgrade, right?

Sir Gene 30:02

right? Pretty heavy.

Ben 30:04

Uh, yeah, but I tell you what I love my M one. I I've gotten the M one, a SOCOM 16, and that is one of my favorite guns. It truly

Sir Gene 30:14

Well, that is definitely the upgraded version. That's for sure.

Ben 30:16

yeah. And the, the recoil impulse will not gun is just fucking fantastic. It's just a fun gun to shoot. But yeah, back back in the day when SKSs is, were, you know, a hundred or a hundred bucks, it was definitely something you could play around with.

Sir Gene 30:34

with all the crappy quality wood stocks.

Ben 30:38

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and if you got, if you went real cheap and, you know, got a Chinese one, um, but, uh, what I'd say

Sir Gene 30:48

Where's yours from Yugoslavia.

Ben 30:50

uh, so I've got A couple. the one I'm talking about was actually yeah. You know, Hey, it, I've got a, I've got some guns,

Sir Gene 31:00

Mr. I've never filled out a form because I've always bought without forums.

Ben 31:06

Okay. And

Sir Gene 31:08

Well, you have multiple SKS.

Ben 31:12

yeah.

Sir Gene 31:14

I dunno, man. That just sounds funny. It was like, if you know that against kind of a toy again, to begin with, what did you, what do you need to have them for?

Ben 31:22

Um, it was one of those deals where I just got them. Uh,

Sir Gene 31:27

Were you 16 at the time or 18?

Ben 31:30

shit. No, when I first got that SKS, I was 12.

Sir Gene 31:34

Oh, well, there you go. Okay. Okay. You should have started with that. That makes a lot more sense when you put it in that context.

Ben 31:40

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, again, it, that. Just a whatever gun from the nineties, you know, um, that I, I bought two of these guns with my own money back in the day, you know, so literally it was under a hundred bucks when I bought both of these guns. Um, and I don't sell guns. I don't get rid of guns. I have ever gotten I've ever purchased.

Sir Gene 32:04

At me.

Ben 32:05

Yeah. Well, anyway, um, so the it's funny because the one I'm talking about is a new Rinko, uh, Chinese, uh, serial number 58. So it was a very early one. Uh, it was in cosmoline when I got it, which, you know, cleaning up cosmoline is a pain in the ass to say the least.

Sir Gene 32:29

So this was probably like one of the guns from Mao's, uh, you know, elite guard.

Ben 32:35

Well, no, it was probably one of the guns that when the Russians went in there and helped them set up the SKS factory, it was probably

Sir Gene 32:42

they were tuning the machines on

Ben 32:44

Yeah. Yeah. It was probably. one of the first runs, man. Um, I mean, seriously serial number 58.

Sir Gene 32:51

Yeah. That's insane that now that might be worth more than a hundred bucks.

Ben 32:56

Well, an SKS today, if you go look at it,

Sir Gene 32:59

serial number.

Ben 33:00

add don't think anyone cares about a Chinese

Sir Gene 33:03

Oh, I don't know, man. I think, I think you're wrong. I think there are plenty of people that are collecting a variety of things and that's mostly based on the rarity and serial numbers absolutely make a impact when it comes to price.

Ben 33:19

Well, again, I'm not selling it, so I don't really, I'm not too worried about it. Um, it to me is definitely not a collectible of any sort, but, uh, uh, anyway, it was just a fun project to do as a teenager. You know,

Sir Gene 33:37

Yeah, I bet. That's I looked at some of those kids. I just always read bad reviews about them,

Ben 33:45

Um, I mean, again, it all comes down to who's installing them what you're doing, you know, people who want something to just drop in. So w one of the things you have to realize, anytime you're talking about an SKS or an AK, there is no such thing as a drop-in accessory. There just isn't the, they require some fit and finish because of the variability of the manufacturing. And, you know, is it a Yugo? Is it a Russian? Is it, this is it that there's variability. And then especially when you start talking about a trigger linkage like that, there's going to have to be some uptake. You're going to have to tune it. And if you're not comfortable with doing some gunsmithing, then no, you shouldn't do something like that. And that's where I think a lot of the bad reviews come from, because if you're willing to tweak and tune and take it apart, put it together, take it apart, put it together and get it down, um, and use your dremmel to, you know, get it to fit. right? Um, you'd be surprised.

Sir Gene 34:44

where the hell my dremmel is probably sitting next to that Trijicon site.

Ben 34:50

So funny story. Um, I had these two SKS and like I said, I was young kid when I got'em and, uh, they were both in cosmoline and I, at the time didn't really have a great understanding of what that meant. So I cleaned up the rifles and, you know, my, my dad helped me. I cleaned them up, everything else. Well, I didn't take apart the bolt carrier on either one of them. So I was out shooting and all of a sudden I had a runaway gun, um, the cosmos plane and the bolt carrier, which I didn't realize they had it in there as well because the firing pin to stay forward because it's a free floating firing pin on the SKS. So the, uh, the firing pin stayed forward and I ended up with what's called a slam fire. So as the gun cycled and loaded, the next round, that firing pin being forward. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So luckily it's only a five round, a five round, Uh magazine on the SKS, unless you change It out and do some upgrades, but, uh, yeah, till to, you know, 12, 13 year old at the time, that was,

Sir Gene 36:02

Exciting

Ben 36:03

quite, uh, quite an experience and not expected.

Sir Gene 36:06

I used to have a gun that accidentally I went into fill out amount of times.

Ben 36:12

Yeah, needless to say, I, I learned to take apart that a bolt carrier and a clean it after that.

Sir Gene 36:19

yeah. yeah. That, that freaks people out of gun range too, when that happens

Ben 36:23

Yeah. I mean it,

Sir Gene 36:25

is there, they're not expecting it. And all of a sudden they're start hearing it.

Ben 36:32

Well and people who, uh, who don't take care of their AR uh, AR is a free floating, uh, firing pin as well. And, you know, you have to be careful, um, now with the, uh, direct impingement AR with the way the gas block works and everything else, you should have enough gas pressure to push that back and free, but depending on what's going on, you, you certainly can end up in the similar situation. So eight, you know, take your bolt carrier groups apart and clean them occasionally.

Sir Gene 37:01

Or just, you know, buy a gun that doesn't require.

Ben 37:04

Yeah. I mean it, a direct impingement system has advantages and disadvantages. You know, We talked about last time about my, my proclivity for gas pest, and I do like gas piston systems. Um, interesting history on the SKS. did. you, do you realize that the SKS actually has two.

Sir Gene 37:26

No, I didn't know that.

Ben 37:27

So I leave it to the Russians to do something like this. So you've got the gas block that comes out at a 45 degree angle, and you've got a, a about two and a half inch long, short stroke piston that literally hits the next piston in the handcart. So it's w you know, instead of one pissed at like, in the AK

Sir Gene 37:48

they do that?

Ben 37:49

I, I don't know. It had to have been something about manufacturing. Some, I don't know. It is a weird, weird, weird design.

Sir Gene 37:57

That is kind of strange. Just adds one more failure point.

Ben 38:01

Yeah.

Sir Gene 38:02

Yeah, it was

Ben 38:03

I think it was to have the initial gas system and then the hand guard, so that the, the hot part was in that initial gas block and that short stroke piston, and then the second piston, because it wouldn't receive any gas where your hand was would stay cooler. That's the only thing I can think of.

Sir Gene 38:24

That honestly sounds like way too thought through for them to have done it back in Russia.

Ben 38:31

Yeah.

Sir Gene 38:32

I think it probably did have more to do with some kind of machining advantage.

Ben 38:37

Well, uh, all I can say is that, uh, you know, the SKS, uh, doesn't get a lot of love today, but realistically was a pretty decent gun for world war II really was. I mean, it's right up there with the um,

Sir Gene 38:52

I don't, I don't think it was as good as the, uh, the Mausers the Germans raising,

Ben 38:58

Uh, no, but, uh, at the same time it was in the same class as like the Gran. and one of the things that I would say about the SKS is it was chambered in a intermediate cartridge where the others were not. So,

Sir Gene 39:13

uh, and that probably had

Ben 39:15

and that was right at the end of the war though, too.

Sir Gene 39:18

Yeah. I probably had more to do with a lack of lead availability.

Ben 39:22

Uh, why do you say that?

Sir Gene 39:25

Well, if they're going to be using a smaller cartridge, it's a

Ben 39:30

Well,

Sir Gene 39:30

because they're, they're producing only smaller cartridges,

Ben 39:35

and I'm, it was right. at 1945 when the first major production went in, so they didn't really see service, but the 7 6 2 by 39 cartridge was developed for the SKS.

Sir Gene 39:49

right. Yeah. So is it any higher pressure or is it the same pressure as the, uh,

Ben 39:56

No, no, it's this, it's those exact same 76

Sir Gene 40:00

They haven't changed at all. Okay.

Ben 40:02

Now that Kartra has been around since 1945, which you know, now with the AK 12, Russia's kind of moved away from that.

Sir Gene 40:11

Yeah. Yeah. Which is funny how we talked about this before, too. How the U S and Russia kind of flip-flop their, their ideas on appropriate characters. Russia moved to a small cartridge and us is moving to the six, eight.

Ben 40:26

Well, again, it's fighting the last war so that when you look at the new, uh, today and rifles, um, when you, when you look at the U S Army's new selection for their, you know, next generation combat rifle, it's really meant to fight in the Hills of Afghanistan. I don't think we'll be fighting in the Hills of Afghanistan again, but who knows? We might.

Sir Gene 40:52

It didn't really like already give Afghanistan everything. The why don't we have to go back there. I hope we don't,

Ben 40:58

Yeah. W w billions and billions of

Sir Gene 41:02

I actually wouldn't mind, speaking of rifles, picking up a nice shape, K 98, uh, just from a historical standpoint.

Ben 41:13

Um,

Sir Gene 41:14

Um, and those were just really well-made guns back in the day.

Ben 41:21

Yeah. one of the things that I've always wanted to do, but haven't, um, I really, really would love to get a, like a mg 42, uh, demilitarize kit and rebuild.

Sir Gene 41:36

Yeah.

Ben 41:37

you know, that that's a L that's a welding and that's lots of stuff because when they demilitarize these kits that you can get from Europe and so on, literally there'll be a shit welded in the barrel. There'll be, um, the barrel will be literally slagged where they'll, you know, they do everything they can to make the gun inoperable and then to go back through and redo that is, uh, is a process. But it's one of those things when I get older and I go through my midlife crisis instead of rebuilding a car or something,

Sir Gene 42:09

Gonna rebuild a gun.

Ben 42:11

Absolutely. I mean, Jesus, who wouldn't want an mg, 42, that's just,

Sir Gene 42:18

It's heavy.

Ben 42:19

it's heavy. But look at the rate of fire and for a gun that was solid service during world war II, my God, it German engineering, man. That was a, um, amazing gun. And it's something that the allies didn't have a good comparable gun to compare to it's nickname during world war II was Hitler's buzz saw because of the rate of fire that it could produce

Sir Gene 42:44

Hmm. Hm.

Ben 42:47

anything else happening this week that you would like to talk about, sir,

Sir Gene 42:50

Oh, sorry. I was reading an ad for somebody selling them G 42 here in Texas. Um, yeah. What else is happening? I don't know. I just kind of, uh, you know, obviously had my birthday, so that was, took some attention. Um, it's nice and quiet this year. Didn't do a whole lot. Just had some sushi with a friend that was out of town. Um, is there anything else company? I don't know. I, I haven't kept up on what the latest is in Ukraine. I, I did hear about obviously the school shooting, cause it's hard not to hear about it.

Ben 43:31

Yeah,

Sir Gene 43:32

Um, you know, it's making the waves. Now, one thing I've heard is it's the, the biggest mass shooting in Texas history. The death overtake the shooting from the tower at the university of Texas,

Ben 43:44

that is a good question. I don't recall how many were

Sir Gene 43:47

or would that, was that just simply a reporter that didn't know what the hell they were talking.

Ben 43:53

Uh, well, let's Google it. So 1966 UT shooting, uh, 31 were killed, so

Sir Gene 44:02

that's by, uh, they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Yeah, exactly. That's typical.

Ben 44:07

well, um, so no, it was 18 killed and then there were 31 additional injured. So there are more

Sir Gene 44:16

Oh, maybe that was then, so this one of them was how many 19

Ben 44:20

Uh, it was 18 students and three teachers. So.

Sir Gene 44:24

when you one total,

Ben 44:25

Yup.

Sir Gene 44:27

huh? Okay.

Ben 44:31

Which, you know, I I'm, I'm a little sad that the UT shooter, I mean, come on, you're on the clock tire, you're at an elevated position. You've got a rifle. Come on. You can do better than that.

Sir Gene 44:41

Um,

Ben 44:42

I'm sorry. Morbid joke.

Sir Gene 44:43

wasn't, wasn't that shooter using a, um, well, he was a Marine, but he wasn't he using a bolt action rifle as well.

Ben 44:52

It

Sir Gene 44:53

Now that see, you gotta, you gotta account for it. You gotta give him props for that though.

Ben 44:57

Why is that?

Sir Gene 44:59

Well, because it's using a semi-automatic gun, you can shoot people.

Ben 45:04

So there were several weapons used, um, let's see here. Yeah. There were several weapons used, there was a Remington 700 that was used in six millimeter. Um, I don't know which particular weapon he had. I don't know if they're, if the Wikipedia article is also counting what the police had. So I'd have to do some more reading, but my recollection is that he was using a bolt action rifle,

Sir Gene 45:33

Yeah, same here. I don't believe he was using somato

Ben 45:37

but I mean

Sir Gene 45:39

girls. Whitman.

Ben 45:39

a bolt action rifle. I mean, you're in an elevated position. You are able to take shots at range. You know, don't know. So speaking of historical shootings, um, I was in Dallas this week and, um, uh, at a conference and, you know, doing that whole thing, but a conversation gets started up about, uh, someone going to Dealey Plaza and, uh, you know, I never Really? bought into a lot of the conspiracy theories around Oswald until I went well. I mean, so as a kid, my parents and everything else, but, you know, I just was like, eh, you know, whatever, uh, who cares? Um, I personally, I don't think Kennedy was that great of a precedent. My mom definitely disagrees, but you know, whatever. Um, I, uh, the thing. Came out of the Kennedy assassination that troubles me the most is Johnson. You know, not, not necessarily assassination. So, but if you go up into the book repository and you look at where Oswald supposedly took the shot from, and you look at the path, well, no, it's not impossible, but anyone who is any sort of marksman would have taken the shot when he was, when they were driving down the road, before they made the turn, you just wouldn't have the, the shot would not have been taken the way it was. You wouldn't wait to do that awkward shot and then get off the rounds that he did now. Now, if, if, if he would have shot when they were coming down the street directly towards him. Sure. That I can totally see. But the fact that he waited and are supposedly waited and then was shooting at an awkward angle and getting off those rounds. Yeah. no, I call

Sir Gene 47:26

No, I I'm sure. He, he was in there and then he did shoot.

Ben 47:31

I'm

Sir Gene 47:31

It's just, he, wasn't the one who killed the president. That's all.

Ben 47:35

Um, he was not the only one involved and he was definitely a Patsy. He was set up for the fall. He was the.

Sir Gene 47:42

Yup, exactly.

Ben 47:44

then for him to be assassinated shortly after, it was just convenient. Anyway, sorry. And you know, you have this, Uh, what was it? The Zapruder film, right. Things like that. Uh I like my personal favorite theory is when you see Jackie's hand go up a, that she's the one that shot him, that I can see. I mean, you know, all the womanizing, Marilyn Monroe, everything yelled, you know, Hey, I bet I could be, you know, a woman scorned.

Sir Gene 48:14

Well, she would have had to have been hiding out large caliber rifle then.

Ben 48:19

Uh, okay. I didn't do the autopsy, so I don't know

Sir Gene 48:24

Yeah.

Ben 48:25

little Palm, 20, 25 caliber. What

Sir Gene 48:28

that would not have done it. No, uh, no, no. Cause the whole back of his head was blown up.

Ben 48:34

Uh, well, he wasn't DOA at the scenes, so I don't know. Yeah,

Sir Gene 48:38

Allegedly Lara allegedly there.

Ben 48:42

yeah.

Sir Gene 48:42

Now I think the there's two, two comments. One is I think it's pretty fucking obvious that there was a second shooter. The second thing is the funniest bit about the there's a prude or film was done by Saturday night live many, many years ago, back when they were still funny, where they basically had a, like the, the, a little documentary about Zapruder and then they had the him, uh, filming like every mass shooting event since he was born. So it was a little kid, you know, he's, he's standing there filming. I don't know. They went through, I can't remember what all more, but there was like five or six. Films that he shot. And he one was at a different mass shooting rail. It was like, huh? That's interesting.

Ben 49:35

Well, so, you know, one of the things that we need to remember and check ourselves on. Um, so, eh, the mass shooting, like what happened this week in Texas is incredibly Rare. You know, people talk about the U S that people talk about us being, um, you know, the third, most violent country, most third, most gun deaths and the world will you take out five cities in the U S and, uh, we dropped down to 180 something. Um, so there are some cities that have a lot of gun violence, and they're all have a very high, intense gun control laws. Um, and these mass shooting events just don't happen that often. And when they do their

Sir Gene 50:26

I'm going to send you something in the signal here.

Ben 50:30

okay, when, when they do it's a, it's a tragedy, but yeah. Very, uh, that that's lovely.

Sir Gene 50:39

That's John Kennedy.

Ben 50:41

You think

Sir Gene 50:41

Yup.

Ben 50:43

almost looks fake. Like it looks like 1960s.

Sir Gene 50:47

from a government website.

Ben 50:49

Okay. Jean, do you trust your government?

Sir Gene 50:52

I trusted enough to, uh, to see this. Yeah. It's uh, I think that they were,

Ben 50:58

the reports of him dying in the hospital are

Sir Gene 51:01

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think what it was is basically they were trying to figure out how to explain to the public exactly what happened. And they didn't want to announce that he was dead without announcing exactly what happened. I think this was, I mean, how many days did it take for stolen today?

Ben 51:21

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Sir Gene 51:22

24 hours

Ben 51:24

Yeah.

Sir Gene 51:25

after he was dead.

Ben 51:26

yeah. It's so, so the point I was making though, was that outside of gang violence, outside of some of the issues we have in some of our big cities, you know, a school shooting is exceedingly rare thing. And a lot of people say, well, if it happens to your kid, the statistics don't matter. Uh, okay. Um, yeah, I can see the tragedy and I would empathize with any parent that lost their child, because I can't imagine that. Isn't that emotional response. Isn't something to set national policy on.

Sir Gene 52:01

absolutely. You can't make any decisions good or bad when you're in a heightened, emotional state. That's just common sense.

Ben 52:09

Well, to say it differently, the odds of you making a very bad decision when you're in a heightened, emotional state go through the roof.

Sir Gene 52:17

That's the same thing. Sure.

Ben 52:19

Yeah. Well

Sir Gene 52:21

I agree with that.

Ben 52:23

Yeah, regardless, I think that, um, you know, the Texas politicians right now, so far seem to be holding the line largely and, um, pushing back and saying, yeah, we're not going to change policy based off of this. And I think that's the right answer

Sir Gene 52:39

Yup. Hope it is. I mean, I hope they stick with that because I'll tell you what if they don't then California has fully taken over Texas

Ben 52:48

Well, and one of the things I'll say is that a, any sort of additional restrictions are unacceptable to people like me. Um, I don't think that you can prevent the crime. I don't think that preventing law abiding citizens from having these weapons is the correct answer. And as far as I'm concerned, repeal the NFA and abolish the ATF.

Sir Gene 53:15

and the department of education.

Ben 53:17

And the FBI, there's no constitutional authority for federal policing power. So yeah.

Sir Gene 53:23

Yeah. Um, but then who would be setting up all the Patsies for all the different, uh, illegal, uh, government actions that are taking place? If it wasn't for the FBI.

Ben 53:35

Well, you know, I think that's something I could learn to live without.

Sir Gene 53:39

Yeah. Speaking of a sad shootings, there was a post I, uh, I saw it and I re posted it on nudge in the social that had a picture of a large building burning. And it said, uh, uh, Russians shoot, um, uh, or, uh, Russians, uh, insulin rate, a building, uh, with, I can't remember how many, like, uh, 6 52 adults and, uh, 17 children, um, with no survivors then below that picture had little. Oh, just kidding. We mean the FBI in Texas. Right. However, I don't remember what the exact numbers were, but you get the

Ben 54:27

right? It was

Sir Gene 54:27

So there's, yeah, it was basically talking about Waco, but it started off in the typical news reporting fashion of some evil thing the Russians did, which was completely made up. And then, um, it was a good reminder of exactly what the us has perpetrated, not to a foreign nation, but to its own people.

Ben 54:48

Well, one of the things that a lot of people. don't realize is Waco was the first instance that a tanks had ever been used against civilians on us soil. First time tanks ever rolled in somewhat of a combat role.

Sir Gene 55:03

Nope.

Ben 55:03

Um, you know, so we had several events in the early nineties that, uh, you know, did a lot to end up shaping my childhood, but between Ruby Ridge, uh, Oklahoma city and Waco, that really, I can't believe that a revolution didn't start out of that. Um,

Sir Gene 55:27

Oh, we were close. I, I remember those times very vividly, man. That, that definitely reinforced a lot of my beliefs that I already had.

Ben 55:38

well, so in Waco specifically, you know, you can say whatever you want about David Koresh, he nut job, whatever. I don't care, but he had a relationship with the sheriff and the sh he went to Walmart every Saturday. They could have picked him up, they get a done lots of things. Um, they chose to do what they did. Um, and jeez,

Sir Gene 56:02

Yeah. They were doing a lot of showing an example of what happens kind of situations back then, and then say not all of them were as big as, as obviously Waco, but the, uh, the FBI, uh, during, uh, um, Clinton's presidency was absolutely out of control. The, uh, the ATF was absolutely out of control. I mean, these agencies. Effectively had decided to not just enforce laws, but to enforce, uh, wishes or desires or uncodified things and codify things based on, uh, the full support of the state department. It was, um, it was a very, um, uh, sad time in America, as far as the federalization of police powers.

Ben 57:01

yeah, I'll take it a little further. The ATF and FBI during the early nineties in the Clinton era, decided to make an example of the quote unquote Patriot groups and anyone that they perceived as, um, not mainstream and following the line. So what they did to Randy Weaver was entrapment. Um, they set him up. So the story behind Randy Weaver, who passed away, uh, either last week or the week before, Um, Someone I've met several times in my life. I knew several people who were involved in Ruby Ridge quite closely, um, both, both rights and, uh, Jack McLamb were family, friends, uh, which Bo has his own issues, um, that have become obvious over the years. But I will say this about Jack McLamb has also deceased at this point. He was truly officer friendly and the codification of what a police officer should be. Anyway. That's uh, what happened with Randy Weaver was there was an FBI informant who, um, became friends with Randy and had him help him saw off a shotgun barrel. And because Randy did it, he did the actual work. They had him on trumped up charges of illegally manufacturing, sawed off shotgun. And he said, this is bullshit. Um, they tried to use that to turn him to a, uh, to be an informant. And the reason why is because where he lived in Idaho, there was a white supremacist movement up there and they

Sir Gene 58:45

he wasn't a member

Ben 58:46

he was not a member at all. He and his family actually had gone to some of. the gatherings and said, you know what? Yeah. no, we don't like this. We don't want to be part of this. Um, So him and his family said, no, we don't want to do that. The FBI got him up on trumped up charges and said, you will, or, you know, we're going to take you down. And he basically said, screw you, come get me. And, uh, well they did. And you know, the way they did it was absolutely horrible. Uh, what happened to Sammy? Uh, his son, uh, uh, you know, his wife, uh, it, it was really truly a tragedy.

Sir Gene 59:30

yeah. Well, it wasn't, I can't remember off the top of my head. Wasn't that the same or similar charge with Koresh where they were selling illegal short bird rifles or something?

Ben 59:43

Well, it was illegal. Yeah, It was ATF charges on arms. I don't remember the exact details. I Koresh had more than one charge against him. Um, you know, people don't realize this, but the child abuse allegations and everything didn't come out until after, uh, the standoff started and you know, whether or not it was true. That's neither here nor there, but they, the FBI, especially with Koresh and so on, use that as cover for what they were, doing. You know, it, it wasn't, we're going to go in and stop this person from abusing children. It was, you know, it was weapons charges and they didn't expect, they did not expect the standoff that they got. Uh, either time they expected people to roll the hell over. And, uh, the same sniper Was involved in both, which is funny.

Sir Gene 1:00:34

Was he really?

Ben 1:00:35

Yeah. Shit. What's his name? The sniper that's shot. Vicki Weaver was also involved in Waco.

Sir Gene 1:00:42

Um, yeah, I didn't realize it was the same guy. That's insane. No, I remember having a lot of conversations back at a time when this happened about

Ben 1:00:52

Yeah. Alon lawn R U G.

Sir Gene 1:00:55

oh, wow. Okay. Um, about the, um, the complete disintegration, the morality in the U S because, uh, when you have the government using snipers targeted American citizens, it's just,

Ben 1:01:15

Over

Sir Gene 1:01:16

crossed over the line. You're you're crossed over the line. No, like not in the act of committing a crap. So I think snipers are appropriate during the commission of a crime. Like you have people that are robbing. Yup. You got it. That's exactly the example I was going to use at that point. It is fully justified you're in the act. But if that same group of people that were robbing a bank and had hostile. All free the hostage hostages, and then, uh, there's still hold up in the bank. I don't think you gotta be using a sniper rifle because there there's no danger at that point to any civilian lives.

Ben 1:01:56

Yeah,

Sir Gene 1:01:56

is, this is like you're, you're changing the dynamics of the situation. And if you're going to shoot people for robbing a bank, uh, using a sniper rifle and they're not posing any threat to you on the outside. I don't know, man. That's that, that to me is already going too far. But these two situations where neither one was in the act of committing a crime

Ben 1:02:21

well, let me just say this lawn. How are you G and I will flat out say this. You should have been charged with murder for what he did to, um, Randy Weaver's wife. So she was holding the door open for them while they were in a firefight while she was holding their baby Alicia. And he shot her dead. And, uh, you know, she was unarmed. She was holding a baby in her arms

Sir Gene 1:02:48

Probably looked like a gun.

Ben 1:02:50

yeah, uh, for a trained sniper to take that shot is evil. There, there is no redeeming. Well, I thought that there, there is no scenario where you shoot a woman holding a baby. You

Sir Gene 1:03:05

Well you do. If you're a Mexican.

Ben 1:03:08

Yeah. Okay. Sure. Um, he

Sir Gene 1:03:12

But not for a government

Ben 1:03:13

not for an FBI agent.

Sir Gene 1:03:15

No, no, absolutely.

Ben 1:03:18

So regardless, uh, the way Ruby Ridge played out is a Jack McLamb and Bo were able to talk Randy down. Randy came off the hill with his daughters that survived. And, um, it ended up being that he got a wrongful death suit against the us government and one for what happened. Um, but that certainly doesn't make up for it.

Sir Gene 1:03:42

No, for sure.

Ben 1:03:45

Yeah.

Sir Gene 1:03:46

Yeah. It's um,

Ben 1:03:49

Well, and you know, the incendiary stuff that was used in Waco, you know, the, the FBI said that they didn't realize what would happen, but they pumped, they, they fired in to the building, uh, a very flammable gas that is not the tear gas that they used was not meant for confined spaces whatsoever. In fact, in its practice, it was supposed to be used in outdoor settings only. Um, so number one, they were violating the use of the design, you know,

Sir Gene 1:04:18

right. The instructions.

Ben 1:04:20

yeah. And then as people tried to leave, they were still firing at them as the building was on fire. People tried to go back and look at the footage. There are several instances where you can clearly hear, as someone tries to run out of the building gunshot.

Sir Gene 1:04:37

Yeah. Yup.

Ben 1:04:38

the murder.

Sir Gene 1:04:40

Absolutely.

Ben 1:04:41

not law enforcement. That's murder

Sir Gene 1:04:44

Yeah, no, that's totally true. Yeah. Okay. So I looked it up, I guess the, yeah, the initial charges were, uh, having an unauthorized, um, uh, what do you call it? Uh,

Ben 1:04:58

against Koresh.

Sir Gene 1:05:00

uh, yeah, unlawful possession of a destructive device.

Ben 1:05:05

Hmm.

Sir Gene 1:05:07

So what does that dynamite or something?

Ben 1:05:10

I mean, Any any explosive,

Sir Gene 1:05:12

Any kind of explosive that wasn't purchased, but rather manufactured, I guess.

Ben 1:05:17

uh, well, depending it's so you have to remember with the ATF and everything else, any explosive device, let's say you have a live grenade, um, getting permission to actually own that is a very hard thing to do.

Sir Gene 1:05:35

Yeah. Well, if you buy it like for removing stumps or something, then

Ben 1:05:39

So here's an interesting thing about lawn heartier, Jean. He was a United States army from 1976 to 1984. And then on the FBI hostage rescue team from 1984 to 2014.

Sir Gene 1:05:53

holy shit.

Ben 1:05:53

So one of the things I'd say there is, this is a perfect example of why soldiers should not become cops. And if you are one, I'm sorry, but it's just, you should not see the police, the people you're going up against as an enemy. It's not the, the, the attitude you'd want a cop to have in the attitude you want a soldier to have are diametrically different things. But yeah, he was involved in both Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Sir Gene 1:06:21

yeah. Um, but I, I would say that the attitude that soldiers had in world war two is different from the attitude of cap. But if you look at the rules of engagement that we had, like in Afghanistan or Iraq, for that matter, there, there were supposed to treat those people better than the way cops treat, uh, you know, regular American.

Ben 1:06:48

Yeah. To an extent. Um, you know, I, I, I would say that my ideal police officer, the only officer that I can think of that really lived up to that was Jack McLamb and the idea of officer friendly, the original idea of the police to protect and serve that sort of mentality is very different. So I think, uh, this is something that Jack preached all the time when he was a officer in the Phoenix police department was, you know, get out of here. Go walk a beat. Right? And I think that is a dramatic difference because one of the things that happens right now is the cops stay in their cop cars. They patrol, they do all this and it isolates them from the community. Versus even up until the seventies, walking a beat was a real thing where you would walk around the community, you talk to people and you know, that is a very different interaction. And that, that builds not only trust. And you get to know people, right. So if you don't know the officers in your community, you're probably not going to trust them and they don't know you. So why the hell should they trust you? Uh,

Sir Gene 1:07:54

yeah. That's, that's true. Uh, I, I know that I've been to a few of these sort of, well, actually, I've been through a whole bunch of different events with, uh, with police and FBI, but the, the one I'm thinking of is that occasionally there would be like a neighborhood. What do they called neighborhood night out, I think is what they used to be called. I don't know if that still exists or not, but quite often you'd have police cars coming down and just like interacting with Civica ones. You can see the inside of what a cop car has and what kind of gadgets and computers he has. They can obviously with your permission, go ahead and run your record right there and show you what the cop sees when he pulls you over or just from your license plate. There's a way to kind of demystify

Ben 1:08:42

cop car without having to have bail.

Sir Gene 1:08:44

have without having the handcuffs on. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Right. You can, you can see what the, uh, w what the, the passenger seat of a cop car. It looks like now the back seat. Uh, but yeah, there's a, uh, that type of interaction goes a long way

Ben 1:09:02

Yeah,

Sir Gene 1:09:04

to making police, um, both see people in their neighborhoods as people, and not just potential targets for writing tickets.

Ben 1:09:16

well, it goes beyond, I am a proponent, Um, of, I agree with you defund the police, especially with, you know, some of the things we've seen that said if you're going to have, let's say a Sheriff's department, I do like Sheriff's departments because elected officials, so on there's accountability directly to the people. Um, I truly believe if you're going to have any sort of enforcement mechanism like that. One cops don't need to wear body armor all the time. They don't sorry. There's no reason for it. A, you look at an officer today and you compare that to what the, the ER, you know, Iraq vets were wearing early on and it looks pretty damn similar except the color pattern. Right. Um, Uh, SWAT teams, SWAT teams do not need to exist. You can have some units that especially train and so on, but the community I live in here in college station, there are three SWAT teams. The university has one college station. Police department has one and the Sheriff's department has one. Why in this little teeny community, you need three fucking SWAT teams. Why,

Sir Gene 1:10:33

from the federal government.

Ben 1:10:34

do they need the fucking em rap? W w w you know, th the DOD giving away military surplus equipment to police departments in the rise of the warrior cop, the melter ization of our police is insane. You want a book recommendation for today? It's rise of the warrior cup by John Whitehead. It is a fantastic read. And I would challenge anyone who thinks I'm an asshole for talking bad about the police to go read that. Um, these no knock warrants, no knock warrants should not exist. I'm sorry. You bust in my house at night, or let's say you got the wrong house, or you bust in because you think I'm a drug dealer Or you. are, are, I have illegal weapons, whatever, whatever. Yeah. exactly. Um, I'm very likely to die. Um, the reason why is because you busted in my house in the middle of the night, I don't care if you're yelling police or not. If someone breaks into my house like that, I'm going for my gun.

Sir Gene 1:11:30

Yeah.

Ben 1:11:31

So all you're doing is setting up for violence versus, you know, do a knock warrant, announce yourself, show me the warrant. Fine. If I'm, if I'm a criminal and the idea that we're going to catch you by surprise. Okay. You've caught me by surprise. I'm surrounded. What am I going to do? Get in a firefight. So what you've got me surrounded, I just don't understand the logic of these no-knock warrants at all.

Sir Gene 1:11:57

Yeah. Well, and you know, it can randomly happen for a person where they're given an unintended house, but, uh, everybody knows I've watched him pool quite a bit. He's had now eight wantings they're a compound out there, you know, when somebody calls in and it's like, oh, a child's about to get killed at this address, please hurry, hanging up. You know? And then what are the cops supposed to doing Northern the phone call? No, they got to come out now. I mean, at this point now they know that he gets a lot of these, so they kind of come out expecting it to be fake, but they still have to be ready in case it's not. Um, and Tim Poole is now spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on private, armed security at the compound, uh, that, uh, he wouldn't have needed to before all these swaths started coming in, you know, he's way the whole place is all wired up with infrared lighting and cameras. Now they can get a much better perspective on everybody and even still they're planning on leaving the state because they just don't want to deal with this shit.

Ben 1:13:08

it's unfortunate, but the reality is when you look at, uh, the no-knock warrants, when you look at squatting's, when you look at how often, uh, police departments get the wrong house and ended up shooting somebody's dog at the very least, that's another thing immediately when they go in, if there's a dog, whether the dog is being aggressive or not, that dog's dead. So, you know, if dogs are people too, and we care about our dogs, defund the police. Um, anyway, I think you and I are both saying the same thing. I don't think we want chaos. I don't think we want lawlessness. I don't think we necessarily want to go back to the wild, wild west,

Sir Gene 1:13:47

Well, I kind of do.

Ben 1:13:48

well, I mean, maybe to an extent, I think everyone should be armed. I think carrying a gun in society should be a normal thing. I think it would drastically reduce crime. Um, Yeah, I mean, carjackings, you don't know if someone's carrying or not. You're not going to get in there. You know, um, that, all that said, I think we do want some law enforcement. Um, but I think that a law enforcement needs to be elected. And I think that they need to do nothing to necessarily prevent crime, but just prosecute crime as in an investigation, as an investigatory body. And if we're not willing to do that, then scrap it all and go back to, you know, uh, juries, you know, grand juries to indict purely. And that's a, that's another thing. Get rid of prosecutors. Get rid of prosecutors as a profession.

Sir Gene 1:14:40

Yeah. Yep. No, I, I think, um, you've talked about it before some, if people haven't heard that explanation just to go back few episodes, you can hear it, but there's some good rationale there to go back to the grand jury system versus.

Ben 1:14:57

Well, and when I say get rid of prosecutors, I mean, get rid of prosecutorial discretion where you can have plea deals and everything else. Either someone committed a crime or they didn't, you're either charging them with a crime or that you're not. And that decision really should be up to a grand jury. And the part of the reason why is jury nullification? And we've talked about this before, too, but I'm going to just reiterate, given everything we're talking about. Now, the idea of jury nullification, and especially at the grand jury level is yes, this person technically committed a crime, but the rationale and what happened in the circumstances, the individual circumstances in this case do not warrant charging them with the crime or finding them guilty of the crime. So therefore we, the jury, you're going to say, we're not going to find them guilty. We're not going to indict them at the grand jury level. That is the purpose of jury. Nullification is to have your peers make a decision based on the circumstances instead of a single prosecutor or a judge making those decision.

Sir Gene 1:15:59

Yeah. Well, and I think the reason that the government's supposed to that is because they don't want different affinity groups or locales, allowing people that are like them or that they represent them to get off the hook any differently than somebody who was. Meaning, uh, you may decide to prosecute a tourist for jaywalking, but not a local person.

Ben 1:16:31

Yeah. Well, you, you don't think prosecutors are doing That Um, you know, I don't know that the whole informant and plea deal society that we have today where we'll, you know, little Johnny here, um, we've got you for this, but if you're at out your friends, we'll lower the charges that's bullshit. That should not, happen.

Sir Gene 1:16:53

no, I agree. I agree with you on that. No, either you charged him with a crime or you let them lose.

Ben 1:16:59

Yeah. Well, Yeah. regardless.

Sir Gene 1:17:03

cause, that's how they get around the Trapman is by relying on informants

Ben 1:17:07

yeah. You

Sir Gene 1:17:08

it's like, well, it's not a government agent than in trap this person, so it's not entrapment.

Ben 1:17:12

which that, if you are acting on behalf of the governor, You should be classified as a government agent then. Yeah. exactly. What happened to Randy Weaver, you know, they got around and Trapman because it technically wasn't some, it wasn't an FBI agent, But it was someone literally taking payroll. So these paid informants, the government argues that they are not government agents. I'm sorry. They're literally taking money from the government and doing governmental work. How are they not?

Sir Gene 1:17:41

very good at interpreting things. Literally when it's convenient to them, like the whole, um, five eyes were. We spy on Britain and provide that to uh, Britain spies on Americans, and then provides that back to the U S government. And then technically nobody's spying on their own citizens and not breaking any laws.

Ben 1:18:06

Yeah. And

Sir Gene 1:18:07

they're great at coming up with strategies like formal strategies with billions of dollars in funding to circumvent the ideas of the law. They intent exactly. They're circumventing that and then saying, but, but no, we're sticking to the, the literal word of the law, so we're okay. So yeah, no, it's, this is the world we live in and, uh, you know, whether it's a COVID or whether it's, uh, this whole Ukrainian thing, it's, they're there, these are all distractions. These are all to take the focus away from the real problems that exist in the U S which, and not just the us mind you in, in a lot of the civilized world today in general, uh, including certainly countries like Russia and China, they, they have plenty of their own, even bigger problems, but the problems that we have have a lot to do with the fact that we've now had 200 years of new laws added and virtually no laws removed, and those laws provide and the ability for the government to. Demonstrate that you're guilty, no matter what you do, because there's such a huge variety of things to charge you with. And also to come up with strategies to, uh, stick to the, uh, like you were just saying, uh, not to the intent of the law, but to the, the literal, uh, words of the law and, uh, create cover to do things that certainly nobody was intending the government to be doing like spying on its own citizens.

Ben 1:19:49

yeah, I am reminded of the quote, show me the man and I'll show you the crime. Um, the, the, the fact of the matter is the average adult in the U S commits a crime daily. In fact, I, one statistics said something like three felonies a day on average, which I have a hard time believing, but quite possibly. We are in a society where, and, uh, you know, I'll use a term. Tim has used a lot lately where Lawfare is highly possible because we are so over-regulated and so over, um, criminalized, I'll say it's a matter of choosing your target and then going after them, because odds are, someone has done something that you can charge them with. Um, that is not the way a free society works. That's the way a prison colony works.

Sir Gene 1:20:42

Yeah. And we've certainly seen this in Australia just recently as well.

Ben 1:20:46

Yeah, Speaking of the Australian, go ahead.

Sir Gene 1:20:51

no, I was going to say speaking of prison, colonies.

Ben 1:20:53

yeah. Well, speaking of, Uh, another thing that Tim has brought up a couple of times is, you know, the rat experiment of giving our aunts hope and so on,

Sir Gene 1:21:02

Yup.

Ben 1:21:03

you think they're going to try for it with monkey box. Is that going to be the

Sir Gene 1:21:07

I don't know. I dunno it it's, uh, it seems a little wishy-washy simply because from what I've read anyway, like this is not some new rare, oh my God, that we have nothing for this disease. This, this has had treatments available for a long time.

Ben 1:21:25

Yeah, but the, the, that said also the document that authority is definitely higher. So. You know, I don't know.

Sir Gene 1:21:36

I don't know. It's hard to say, but I, I guess it could happen. I just have a hard time imagining people being

Ben 1:21:43

group where you, you should be okay though.

Sir Gene 1:21:47

well. I'm uh, I'm in the age group where I just don't care.

Ben 1:21:50

No, but you you're in the age group that got the smallpox vaccine, right?

Sir Gene 1:21:54

Oh yeah. Yeah, of

Ben 1:21:55

Yeah. So the, literally the vaccines that they're purchasing and talking about for this are smallpox vaccines, which is interestingly enough, the, uh, transmission of smallpox, uh, in the U uh, uh, outside the U S um, is based off of a, a large portion of the outbreaks that have happened have been linked back to some of the vaccination campaigns.

Sir Gene 1:22:20

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. It just, there is a Jew. Well, they're probably going to also start developing some Mr. And a based smallpox vaccines now as well. I mean this whole MRR and a can of worms has been opened, which means now is a great opportunity for all these companies to come up with patented new vaccines because all the old shit is that a patent,

Ben 1:22:43

Yeah.

Sir Gene 1:22:44

if it was ever patented, because back, back in the day, there were actually doctors, chemists, whatever you want to call them, people that work on this stuff. Unlike Fowchee, who's just a mouthpiece, uh, who believed in doing things for the good of humanity

Ben 1:23:02

Yeah.

Sir Gene 1:23:02

that, that doesn't exist today.

Ben 1:23:04

so I've been catching up on star Trek, strange new world. And,

Sir Gene 1:23:09

What'd you think

Ben 1:23:09

uh,

Sir Gene 1:23:10

I've only seen the first episode,

Ben 1:23:12

like it. The, the S uh, the second and third episode are pretty damn good. And, uh, they bring up, uh, genetic modification and, you know, from the original series and from star Trek to, you know, you've got con con Noonan sing, right? And the, uh, genetic wars and so on, man, I can't help. But think of this is the start of that. Uh, and, uh, anyway, in star Trek lore, they eventually outlawed genetic modification to an extreme, um, but yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll stay up your blood and we'll, we'll, we'll see where it ends up, but, you know, beyond the, and a technology, and just the idea of we're going to genetics is a complicated subject. And the fact of the matter is when, one of the things that was shocking when they in the nineties, when they cracked the human genome, right. We looked at the number of base pairs and everything else, and the human genetic code isn't, as long as we would have thought it to

Sir Gene 1:24:15

No, it's pretty small.

Ben 1:24:16

Yeah. You know why? Because genes control multiple things. So when you start turning things on and off, you get unintended consequences because that one switch in combination actually affects multiple things.

Sir Gene 1:24:28

Yeah. Well, that's how the Atlantean stayed off.

Ben 1:24:32

Okay. I'm gay gene. How did the Atlantean stay off?

Sir Gene 1:24:36

Well, you know, they, they were the advanced race of humans that were just thousands of years ahead in terms of their technology and, uh, uh, they, they had interacted with the more primitive humans on the moon. But, uh, ultimately what led to their demise and, and, uh, why they're no longer here and why we're literally thousands of years behind technologically, uh, is because they started working on genetic modifications that led to, uh, an extension and ex extinction of the, um, the entire civilization.

Ben 1:25:16

Um, okay. I, uh,

Sir Gene 1:25:19

They were close. They were close more closely related to the Neanderthals. Um,

Ben 1:25:24

it's,

Sir Gene 1:25:25

they were key. They were relatives of ours, but not, we are not direct descendants.

Ben 1:25:30

so what I would

Sir Gene 1:25:31

Are you that familiar with this?

Ben 1:25:32

uh, I am familiar with Atlanta's to an extent, but what I would say there is, I don't know. So now that I buy that, but what I will say in your

Sir Gene 1:25:40

a whole TV series about that. That was on probably 15 years

Ben 1:25:44

yeah. Stargate. Yeah. Great. Uh,

Sir Gene 1:25:46

And that's star gate Dell.

Ben 1:25:49

well there was literally Stargate

Sir Gene 1:25:50

I do. I do like Stargate. That was a very good TV

Ben 1:25:53

Yeah. Um, so what I would say in your defense, uh, is had we not had the dark ages just think of how much more advanced we would be. So if you had an isolated society, yes. They could advance, but the odds of them advancing thousands of years over their mainland counterparts. I don't know if I buy that. And when you. look at the origins of, uh, Atlantis and was it whose writings was it? Was it Plato's

Sir Gene 1:26:21

Yeah,

Ben 1:26:22

yeah.

Sir Gene 1:26:24

but in Cleo Plato describing it as stories that were told by his grandfathers about things that happened long ago.

Ben 1:26:31

Right. I mean, from an oral tradition.

Sir Gene 1:26:34

Yeah. Yeah. Oral tradition. But that, that places, Atlanta to have been a place that people would have known firsthand no closer to us than about 4,500 BC,

Ben 1:26:49

Yeah. Well, I don't know.

Sir Gene 1:26:51

that'd be the latest and quite likely earlier than that.

Ben 1:26:55

Yeah. Well, I, you know, when you go back to the Sumerians and everything else, and look at the, some of the oldest texts that we have, it's, uh,

Sir Gene 1:27:04

Yup.

Ben 1:27:05

eh, I don't know that. Atlantean civilization was a thing or not, or if it was just a myth, but almost all myths are founded in some fact.

Sir Gene 1:27:17

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, myths are misinterpretation of actual events sometimes intentionally, so, and sometimes unintentionally. So there's also a, um, uh, a video that I watched that talked about the flooding of the, um, I guess it'd be the, like the Caspian sea or the black sea. I can't remember. I'd have to look at a map, but essentially where the Mediterranean spilled in, uh, into the one of those seas. Um, um, I'm looking at a map right now. See if I can, yeah, well, it would have been this, the, uh, it wouldn't have been the Caspian that's way too far. Uh, yeah, so it would have been the black scene, um, which is incidentally where, you know, the whole Ukrainian things happening right now. But, uh, they have found, um, relics and, um, like dishes and, you know, effectively people's houses, columns, uh, temples that are hundreds of feet below sea level in the black scene and the hypothesis. And this is not certainly a proven one was that, uh, that thousands of years ago, the black sea was way lower sea level than it is, um, today. And that what ended up happening is the, the. The narrow body of water that's currently going through. I think it's the boss for us, uh, that leads in from the Mediterranean to the black sea was actually just land and sealed off. And that, uh, uh, that at some point, and this is the question, mark is, I don't know if they've carbon dated this stuff to see exactly how long ago this happened, but that essentially the straits is Bosphorus opened up and the Mediterranean created a flood. And this accounts for two things, one is the flood is what drowned Atlantis, and which would make some sense because if Atlantis was a, uh, and civilization that was on the water or along the water, uh, it doesn't have to be in the ocean. Right. It could have been in a sea because the world was a much smaller place

Ben 1:30:14

it was described as a island though.

Sir Gene 1:30:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you can certainly have an island in the sea, like I've been through those. Um, and

Ben 1:30:26

Yeah.

Sir Gene 1:30:26

yeah, see versus ocean, and, and by the way, the, if you look at the black scene, It's a, like, you can't see the shore on the other side. It's a big enough that it's, you know, it's like lake superior, you can't see the shore on the other side.

Ben 1:30:42

Right.

Sir Gene 1:30:44

Uh, although I don't think it's quite as big as superior, but anyway, point is, um, that explains that event and it also explains the, uh, the flood, uh, where, uh,

Ben 1:30:57

Noah's flood.

Sir Gene 1:30:58

no. Yeah, we're no built the dark.

Ben 1:31:00

Yeah. But potentially I, I, you know, that we can, we can debate the historical efficacy of Genesis, but I think the moral of Noah's story and Genesis in general is no different. Um,

Sir Gene 1:31:18

No, but you're, this is a potentially real event,

Ben 1:31:23

I

Sir Gene 1:31:23

an ecological event that could explain what primitive people would describe as

Ben 1:31:28

uh, global

Sir Gene 1:31:29

a great flood. Yeah. So if the center of civilization was basically the middle east, that's where, you know, the, the culture that we currently have started from, it was the area between Greece and Iraq and, um, certainly the black seas. Right, right there. Uh, then a lot of things that happened in that area could very easily be transformed into the mythical stories that.

Ben 1:32:03

well, and you know, a great example of that. is the story about the tower of Babel. What a lot of people don't realize is, uh, that's Babylon, you know,

Sir Gene 1:32:15

Babylon five, a great TV show.

Ben 1:32:17

uh, yeah, it was, and that's in the reboot. They're, they're, they're starting to

Sir Gene 1:32:20

Is it really? I didn't know that.

Ben 1:32:22

I'm looking forward to that one,

Sir Gene 1:32:24

Hmm.

Ben 1:32:25

um, anyway, you know, there are lots of stories in Genesis that can be unpacked. And this is something that anyone who's interested in Peterson did a great set of lectures On Genesis that are definitely worth listening to, um, you know,

Sir Gene 1:32:44

On YouTube.

Ben 1:32:45

Yeah. Yeah. They're free on YouTube, um, in, uh, the symbology of a lot of it, the symbolism, um, is really interesting. So what's your take on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? What historical event does that correlate to Jean

Sir Gene 1:33:07

That's a good question. Um, my guess it would have to be an earthquake cause uh,

Ben 1:33:13

shower, you know, salt,

Sir Gene 1:33:14

yeah, meteor

Ben 1:33:16

fire and brimstone,

Sir Gene 1:33:18

I think in the earthquake generates a lot of fire. Um, I mean, certainly we know that. Volcanoes have done that to cities as well, like Pompei. Um,

Ben 1:33:32

Mount Vesuvius.

Sir Gene 1:33:34

but, um, I dunno, I just, I think that if you look at any mythology or religious texts and then you look for what could something have been interpreted as this by people that were less modern than we are? I don't want to say primitive because when I say primitive people, I'm thinking a hundred thousand years ago, not like 3000 years ago. Well, these were modern people with less information effectively.

Ben 1:34:05

Well, and that's something that a lot of people don't, that that actually is a good topic for us to talk about because you know, whether you want to, so there will be people who say, Hey, you know, earth is 7,000, 10,000 years old at most. And then we can talk about billions or whatever. But the difference between historical humans and humans today, really isn't about intellect or a capacity. The, and the amount of change that we've had in the last hundred years, I think we underestimate its impact on society. So when you look throughout history, the level of technology is recognizable all the way through, up until you really start to get into the 18 hundreds. So when you start building trains, when you start, you know, that industrial revolution slowly starts up to the 18 hundreds in the early 19 hundreds, and now on through, and then you hit the information revolution and everything else. The last 200 years have totally changed. Totally changed human society in ways that we have never seen before in history.

Sir Gene 1:35:19

I think you can pick any 200 year period and say the exact same thing.

Ben 1:35:23

I don't think so.

Sir Gene 1:35:25

Um, you don't, you don't think the printing press changed human signing.

Ben 1:35:29

I do, but not at the same level because books were still a thing. It just revolutionized how easily books could

Sir Gene 1:35:36

Yeah. And information and texts were still there and the internet just simply made it quick and easy to get at them.

Ben 1:35:44

Uh, okay,

Sir Gene 1:35:47

You know, the anarchist handbook existed way before the internet.

Ben 1:35:51

true. Um, but before cell phones, perfect example, you would go out into the, I mean, I grew up where I would go out into the ether and no one knew where the hell you were until you came back.

Sir Gene 1:36:02

Absolutely.

Ben 1:36:03

That's a pretty big societal change. Birth control birth control is actually probably the biggest societal change we have ever seen.

Sir Gene 1:36:12

uh,

Ben 1:36:13

we know how to handle it yet.

Sir Gene 1:36:15

Yeah. I mean, it's birth control is definitely a big change and it's probably, uh, led to a decrease in the total birth, but also better medicine was a huge change that led to more survival of pregnancies because every time a woman got pregnant in the past, it was a roll of the dice, whether or not she's going to end up being dead at the end of that pregnancy.

Ben 1:36:40

yeah.

Sir Gene 1:36:42

They, the I'd say starting with the 1930s, uh, medicine and, uh, the damn what's the word I'm looking for as the cell starts with an S uh, like the cleanliness, the,

Ben 1:36:59

Yeah.

Sir Gene 1:37:00

uh, I am still, yeah, yeah. That's the word I was looking in. The standardization standards in clinics finally improves to the point where unintended deaths, as a result of going to the clinic were minimized, uh, delivery, uh, methods were improved to allow for both the, the child's and the woman's life, uh, to be saved when quite often in the past, only one of them.

Ben 1:37:27

what I'm more referring to is how birth control led to the sexual revolution of the sixties and how, you know, we really went from a woman not being able to control her reproductive cycle. And if you know, the consequences of sex were greater pre birth control than they are today with birth control.

Sir Gene 1:37:48

Yes. And no, I would say because also prior to birth control, uh, sexually transmitted diseases, didn't have a chance of killing you and aids popped up right after birth control did.

Ben 1:38:05

yeah. Thanks for Dietrich.

Sir Gene 1:38:09

And, uh, you know, aids was a major factor in, um, minimizing the, uh, the effects of birth control in the eighties. Like in the seventies, you had a hell of a lot of hidden as I'm going on, right?

Ben 1:38:27

Uh, huh.

Sir Gene 1:38:28

you no longer had the threat of having to have a pregnancy and therefore no need to have marriage. And then the eighties now you were started to be taught that sex equals possible death.

Ben 1:38:43

Well,

Sir Gene 1:38:44

all of a sudden, now you needed to be wearing a condom. And even that wasn't guaranteed.

Ben 1:38:49

Yeah, so my comment about for Dietrich, um, aids showed up right after the book, the population bomb was written, um, for Dietrich, Maryland is where a lot of biological research was done. Uh, and there have definitely

Sir Gene 1:39:03

say, thanks Fowchee.

Ben 1:39:04

yeah, there, there are definitely been some theories passed around that aids was a created disease and that it was set off in Africa. And the reason why is because the African continent had the highest birth rate at the time.

Sir Gene 1:39:20

Right.

Ben 1:39:21

And

Sir Gene 1:39:21

also the highest mortality rate.

Ben 1:39:24

yes, but if you're

Sir Gene 1:39:25

birth rate is because it have to balance out the mortality rate.

Ben 1:39:29

okay, the African continent was growing at a higher rate than any other. So yes, they had a high death rate. They also had a high birth rate and they were overall growing. And you have to remember in the 1970s and when this first kicked off the population bomb. And the idea that by now, you know, I mean look at Soylent green, they thought we would be 20 plus billion people by.

Sir Gene 1:39:51

Yeah. Yeah. If we go back magically to the seventies, we had birth control. We had the population bomb books being written in the threat of overpopulation.

Ben 1:40:03

Bill Clinton getting a vasectomy.

Sir Gene 1:40:05

And we had global cooling because, uh, if we didn't do something that earth would freeze.

Ben 1:40:12

We were at the beginning of a new ice age.

Sir Gene 1:40:15

Yes.

Ben 1:40:16

Yes. According to Carl Sagan.

Sir Gene 1:40:19

And so well, and that was the popular opinion at the time. And it was just as alarmist as the global warming opinion.

Ben 1:40:26

Indeed.

Sir Gene 1:40:27

How about we just admit that there is a global climate change and that is something that's been happening for. Oh, about two and a half billion years

Ben 1:40:36

Yeah. The climate

Sir Gene 1:40:37

since the planet cooled off to the point where it had climate,

Ben 1:40:40

Well, and you know, one of the things that I'll say about climate changes, I'm not a climate denier. Uh, but what I would say is I don't believe in anthropomorphizing that climate, change, I don't believe that it is man-made necessarily. I think that the solar cycle has more to do with it. Um, here's something that I find hilarious. People talk about carbon dioxide being a, um, greenhouse gas. Right? Well, let's look at the physics of this. Let's think about this for a second. And then we talk about one of the greenie initiatives is a hydrogen fuel cell car. We're going to transition to the hydrogen economy. Okay. Well, on a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, it only admits Waterville. Okay, can you imagine Houston, two 90 and a 59, that main intersection there that's traffic jammed all the time, mid August with all those cars pumping out humidity. You want to talk about lake effect, whether you want to talk about a, uh, a change. A perfect example is look at lake effect weather. When they put in a dam and build a, like, it changes the weather patterns in that area, because guess what? You're putting more water vapor in the air. You have this big heat sink, things change,

Sir Gene 1:41:54

Yes. No, that's absolutely

Ben 1:41:57

dioxide is a greenhouse gas that we need to be worried about.

Sir Gene 1:42:00

Well, and the reason that we call it a greenhouse gas is because carbon dioxide, high CO2 levels, uh, is what plants love. This is what, what motivates higher growth and larger size plants. This is why in the greenhouse, if you actually pump CO2 in there, you have larger size fruits and vegetables coming out. These are all positive things about CO2, and I'm a big proponents fiancee. I'm a, uh, one of the members of a CO2 that org and we've been pushing for an increase in CO2 as a solution to, uh, the increase, you know, needs that, that the populations of the planet have, uh, when you can grow more outdoor with a greater, um, availability of CO2, then you can feed more of the.

Ben 1:42:57

Yeah, the idea behind, you know, a greenhouse effect in the atmosphere. Um, the atmosphere itself does have a greenhouse function, but to say that we're going to trap more heat by increasing the amount of carbon dioxide, it is such a small percentage. I just, and maybe I'm not a climatologist at all. So maybe I just do not understand, but the, my understanding of thermodynamics does not lend itself naturally to some of the. ideas that are proposed so

Sir Gene 1:43:37

it's. Yeah. And if you look at the actual studies and the, the data that we have and understand that, of course we're extrapolating for old, well, not, not for future stuff, but we're sapling for past climate data based on secondary signs, like, um, you know, tree rings and things like that. But if you look at it, you'll, you'll actually see that CO2 is a trailing factor in the increase of global temperatures. As the temperature of the planet has increased over time, CO2 has risen it wasn't that CO2 rose, and then that warmed up the planet and the temperature.

Ben 1:44:23

Well, what I would say is temperature increases. You have more life, you have more animal life, you have things that go through this cycle producing that CO2, you have plant matter decaying. You have lots of things that happen that at colder temperatures happens less. Um, you know,

Sir Gene 1:44:42

all the energy that is utilized on this planet all is derived from a single source,

Ben 1:44:49

yeah. the sun,

Sir Gene 1:44:50

sun.

Ben 1:44:51

it's interesting because people say, oh, well, we're running out of fossil fuels. What evidence do you have for that? That it's a logical fallacy. Well, okay. Let's assume that you believe that all oil, that there's no such thing as a biotic oil, which I would argue is a thing, but let's say it's all biotic oil and that all of it. is fossil fuel reserves from decaying matter. And so let's say we 100% buy that. What evidence do you think exists that we are depleting our fossil fuel reserves.

Sir Gene 1:45:21

Um,

Ben 1:45:22

Um, last time I checked, there was still life on this planet. Those processes would still be in play and going through today. So we are generating oil as fast as we ever were. If not maybe even faster. Why do we believe that we are extracting it at a rate that is. Beyond its production they're in. And even so it's a titration experiment, right? So you have, you have water coming out of the tank, you have water going into the tank. You don't know which is a happening faster, but even at that same time, you know, if we say, okay, we're taking out faster than it's going in. That doesn't mean we're ever going to run out. That just means we may need to curtail at some point in time, we have this reserve that's there. So anyway, I just find that

Sir Gene 1:46:11

only that we don't know what's going to end up happening. We may have a major catastrophe happen in two weeks with nuclear bombs that wipes out majority of life on earth. Now that will have a massive impact on our usage of oil when we are no longer alive. And, and so the

Ben 1:46:35

a spike in the future oil reserves,

Sir Gene 1:46:37

exactly, exactly, just like we have, uh, the, the spike that happened when we had the mass extinction of the dinosaurs source as a result of most likely the result of a, uh, a comment hitting the Gulf of Mexico or in the, or, or inland on the Yucatan peninsula. So.

Ben 1:46:56

and R asteroid. But yes.

Sir Gene 1:46:59

Yeah, so, well, it's, it's likely a comment, not an asteroid though. Um, because the energy, uh, that was delivered. So

Ben 1:47:09

The energy is just going to be dependent upon the mass of the object.

Sir Gene 1:47:14

it's going to be dependent, not just on the mass of dab jig, but also on the, uh, the trajectory of the object.

Ben 1:47:25

Well, I mean, you're going to have enough atmospheric friction that you're going to have a terminal velocity. So, and I

Sir Gene 1:47:32

You may not hit terminal velocity. If you're going sufficiently fast, rocket rockets and stuff is, is an area I've spent quite a bit of time on, but the point is, is not to argue semantics here over it, but that we may have an event that we're not accounting for predicting that we'll have a drastic effect on the usage of oil and the production of oil. And yet humans are so damn preoccupied with being the most important thing in the universe that they think if they don't change something themselves, that the world is a static place. That's just a stupid belief.

Ben 1:48:10

Well, and you know, one of the things, so we have an oil based economy globally, and w you know, I, I, I'm sitting here drinking out of a plastic cup. I'm talking into a mic that has plenty of plastic on it. The fact of the matter is we are not going to move away from petroleum any time. We're just not the other thing I would say is the idea that we're going to move to all electric vehicles is absolutely asinine one because we can't build enough batteries. There's not enough lithium, but to, uh, at least here in the U S our grid could not handle it. The amount of energy requirements for the grid, the grid we would have to, uh, as something to get somewhere in the order of quadruple power production in the United States to transition to all electric vehicles.

Sir Gene 1:49:00

And the problem, I think, with an all electric and I had an electric vehicle and love it, and I've got a Tesla truck on orders, so I'm not like an anti electrical vehicle person at all. But the problem is, as you mentioned, the, the current grid was not designed to handle, uh, you know, 80. What is it? 80 kilowatts that, uh, the typical Tesla battery has, some of them have over a hundred, uh, on a daily basis, but that's a lot of electricity to be sucking down. Now, could there be things done? Like for example, it could a lobby pass that says you're not allowed to own electric vehicle without having solar panels on your roof, which would accommodate at least 80% of the legalization. Yeah. That's certainly possible we can move in that. But ultimately what it comes down to is we need more nukes. God dammit.

Ben 1:49:54

Yeah, I actually was having this conversation. So as a DistribuTECH, um, earlier in the week, which is a huge conference, so DistribuTECH international it's and, uh, power gen was happening at the same time. So you had about 12,000 people at this conference, huge conference, and it's all about power generation, transmission, and distribution. And some of the conversations I was having was directly around that. And, you know, you've seen Pandora's promise, right?

Sir Gene 1:50:24

No.

Ben 1:50:25

Oh man, you've got to go watch that documentary. That is a fantastic documentary.

Sir Gene 1:50:29

or Amazon or what's

Ben 1:50:30

Uh, it was on Netflix. I'm not sure where it's at now, but it's, it's, it's all about, uh, it's an environmentalist who was very much into climate change and anti nuke, and then decided after doing some research, Hey, this, this, this, this is though, this is the right answer. um, you know, and one of the statistics out of that documentary that I found really interesting was that if you took all the nuclear waste, uh, throughout the world and

Sir Gene 1:50:58

I bet you, are you in nuclear waste

Ben 1:50:59

and you've made fun of me in front of, at all this, I did not appreciate the comparison to George Bush, by the way out of all the people. But anyway, uh, if you took all the ways, then you put it

Sir Gene 1:51:13

liked Bush. I mean, he's kind of a.

Ben 1:51:15

I don't like Bush.

Sir Gene 1:51:16

A, it's funny to not like about Bush, but I would totally go and have a drink with Bush.

Ben 1:51:23

Uh, now we're in the nineties. Cause right now it would be, oh, duels.

Sir Gene 1:51:28

Well, and given that I don't drink anymore, um, it wouldn't be anything, but no, I think, I think now would probably be even more fun than before, because he's more relaxed. He's mostly just painting

Ben 1:51:40

Hm, yup. Him and hunter. Um, anyway, one of those statistics that I found out of that documentary that I really I thought was very telling is if you took all the waste, not counting, quote unquote contaminated water, because we can deal with that in different ways, but solid waste all the spent fuel rods it and put them on a football field. Jean, how deep do you think that would be?

Sir Gene 1:52:03

three feet.

Ben 1:52:05

Uh, you sack or you, you looked it up.

Sir Gene 1:52:07

Nope, I did not.

Ben 1:52:09

Okay. Yeah, it's right at three feet. So anyway, the

Sir Gene 1:52:14

I'm just plugged into the universe, man.

Ben 1:52:16

people underestimate the density of uranium and plutonium is all I'm getting at.

Sir Gene 1:52:22

No, it's good stuff. It's really dense.

Ben 1:52:24

Well, and if you take a, so if you took like a modern reactor design, so, or even an older reactor design, something like ERB one, which was a breeder reactor, and you took the, spent fuel rods out of, uh, your current lightwater reactor designs. You know, you can take that battery. If you think of the fuel rod as a battery, I lightwater reactor takes that down to about 70% of its overall energy capacity. So as a result, that's where you end up with these tens of thousands of years of half-life of radiation,

Sir Gene 1:52:53

Yeah,

Ben 1:52:55

a breeder reactor,

Sir Gene 1:52:56

yeah, go ahead. Go

Ben 1:52:57

Well, a breeder reactor design could use that same fuel rod and fuels spent fuel from the light water reactor and take that battery down to about 5%. Now we're talking hundreds to a thousand years of half-life and that's something you can make a company, put money into a trust and maintain,

Sir Gene 1:53:13

Yeah. And that's assuming we don't come up with a way to suck the last 5% out.

Ben 1:53:19

uh, agreed

Sir Gene 1:53:20

Right. And yeah, that's when you started talking, I was just going to say well, but explain how the light breeder or the breeder reactors work. Um, the other thing is, you know, we don't need the contaminated water if we're using a molten salt reactor metal,

Ben 1:53:34

Yeah. And you know, the idea that the water is contaminated is there, there's lots of things there. Um,

Sir Gene 1:53:42

actually, this is a good question. Cause I don't know the answer. And so how exactly is the water contaminated? Like what in the water in is actually radioactive?

Ben 1:53:55

So like in Fukushima, there, there are several products, uh, that get produced. Uh, I would have to go through and look at, I don't want to misspeak.

Sir Gene 1:54:06

Is it like HDL three or what are we getting.

Ben 1:54:08

No, no, no, it's not. It's, it's, it's particulates in the water

Sir Gene 1:54:12

Okay. So if it's particular they can be filtered.

Ben 1:54:15

Well, our flocculate it out and things like that, but, and water can absorb X amount of radiation, any material can. Um, but the, the real big issue with contamination at both Fukushima and Chernobyl was, um, I want to say cesium cesium was the by-product that was produced, but someone's gonna roast me on it if I'm wrong. So,

Sir Gene 1:54:44

Okay.

Ben 1:54:45

so as part of the reaction, uh, when a, when a runaway nuclear reaction happens, you produce lots of different things, right? So vision, what was happening inside the reactor is vision. So you're tearing apart, Adam's releasing energy and, uh, stray neutrons. So the stray neutrons then hit other atoms cause for the vision. So on the idea of the control rods is to, uh, drop the rods in between absorb those neutrons, stop the reaction. Um, With Chernobyl, there was lots of different things that happened. People would go read on the documentary, but the, the fundamental design of the control rods in that situation was flawed. Um, you know, and I made the joke earlier this week, Rick over really ripped us over with the light water reactor designs, because number one, safety, um, they are not intrinsically safe by any stretch of the imagination, are they they're extremely safe, but there are some areas where other reactor designs are much, um, improved and better. Um, the other thing is while it was the shortest path to a, uh, new Navy, it really was short-sighted in my mind.

Sir Gene 1:56:07

Yeah.

Ben 1:56:08

Hmm. So some of The designs that China has even produced here recently, um, you know, they, they have reactor.

Sir Gene 1:56:16

For which ones?

Ben 1:56:17

they, Yeah. and they've got some pebble bed designs where cooling can be entirely turned off to the system. And what ends up happening is the reaction peaks at its highest peak temperature and then falls off. Um, so there there's some really. Cool designs. GE has a modular reactor design. That's been around for a long time. Uh, there are several other companies that are startups. Uh, one of the really cool modular reactor designs that I've seen is 50 megawatt, uh, units that can be taken out of service. So the idea is you can build a up to, you know, however big you want, but that when refueling time comes or anything else, you're only taking a 50 megawatt D rate. You're not actually shutting down the entire facility.

Sir Gene 1:57:00

Yeah. It's uh, and I think I mentioned my, uh, my ex-wife's uncle was a, uh, COO of a Russian company that, um, uh, sold a small nuclear reactors,

Ben 1:57:17

Hmm.

Sir Gene 1:57:18

um, which there, like when he was doing it, this would've been back in early two thousands. Their biggest market was Africa

Ben 1:57:27

yeah. So the interesting thing is Texas gets a lot of power from Russia

Sir Gene 1:57:33

in the form of

Ben 1:57:36

in the form of Comanche peak in south Texas projects, fuel rods.

Sir Gene 1:57:39

oh yeah. Yeah. As far as the, yeah, that's right. That's true.

Ben 1:57:43

Yeah. I mean, people don't even realize it, but, uh, you know, the U S does not produce our own fuel for those reactors.

Sir Gene 1:57:50

Yeah. W why is that? Don't we have that in Alaska. We can produce that.

Ben 1:57:54

Uh, we have it all over the place. You know, the U S actually has a decent amount of uranium, but you know, what the decision was made in the nineties to purchase fuel from, you know, Russia, uh, the whole uranium one scandal aside. But, um, the idea was to encourage, uh, Russia to take weapons grade stuff and move it into fuel production, which obviously didn't happen because they have plenty of other uranium assets and everything else, but it was part of, uh, you know, the idea to, uh, get rid of the armament.

Sir Gene 1:58:33

Yeah. And I think there was a lot of ideas that were sort of good in concept, but not particularly well thought through. Um, but the fact now that like the Canadian uranium mines are owned by China is pretty damaged thing.

Ben 1:58:50

Yeah. Well, and then uranium one, you know, the, which uranium one is a scandal that I still can't believe hasn't come to the, um, forefront of the American consciousness because it talk about giving away the goldmine. All right. In this case, the uranium mine.

Sir Gene 1:59:12

Yeah. Well, do you want to run through it and fill people in

Ben 1:59:16

Uh, yeah. So the Hillary Clinton state department signed off on a sale of uranium one, two, uh, was it the Russians or Ukrainians?

Sir Gene 1:59:30

the

Ben 1:59:30

Yeah, it's kind of interesting how everything's intends to go back to Ukraine here recently, isn't it? So the state department, since uranium one was a strategic, um, uh, uh, considered a us strategic asset, uh, you know, uranium production for military goods and civilian use the sale had to go through and get approval. And it's kind of a very underhanded story about how Clinton approved it. It went through this entire process and the kickbacks that were given. Um, so we are giving up a nominally strategic asset to foreign ownership that, uh, you know, could be potentially damning if we ever ended up actually in world war three.

Sir Gene 2:00:17

Yeah. Yeah, it's a, uh, not a surprise at all, that it would involve the Clinton's of course

Ben 2:00:27

No, the. Well, you know, it's not just the Clintons, the Clintons and the bushes are part of the same crime family. And in fact, there are statements where, you know, GW Cole, Bailey Clinton is, uh, is, you know, brother from another mother essentially. And there's just a lot of incestuous tie-ins, but that's that's us politics.

Sir Gene 2:00:54

Well, we went from Bush to Clinton, to Bush.

Ben 2:00:59

Yeah.

Sir Gene 2:01:00

So Jacker,

Ben 2:01:03

Well,

Sir Gene 2:01:04

I think the only, uh, the only issue there is because Hillary was a lesbian and Bush was shooting blanks that they only, uh,

Ben 2:01:14

you mean?

Sir Gene 2:01:15

oh, I'm sorry. Was that a slip of the tongue?

Ben 2:01:18

Yeah.

Sir Gene 2:01:19

Bill was shooting blanks there. There's not a Clinton family legacy there.

Ben 2:01:24

Well, I mean that's where, uh, uh, what's his name came in.

Sir Gene 2:01:28

Yeah. But yeah, but still only managed to get a girl.

Ben 2:01:33

Uh, what, what is his name?

Sir Gene 2:01:37

Yeah, the guy that actually was the father of Chelsea.

Ben 2:01:40

Yeah. Well, it starts with a w

Sir Gene 2:01:43

Hello.

Ben 2:01:44

yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Webb. Hubbell. Yeah. If you, if you Google a picture of him and Google a picture of Chelsea Clinton, it's like,

Sir Gene 2:01:53

um,

Ben 2:01:55

Yeah, well, and you know, that's another thing is we can talk a lot of conspiracy theories and everything else, and, you know, people like to call, uh, Michelle, Michael and all that. And

Sir Gene 2:02:05

um, Michael Obama.

Ben 2:02:07

yeah, who knows? I, I can totally see that. But when you look at the relationship between Houma, Aberdeen and Hillary Clinton.

Sir Gene 2:02:15

Oh, th there's no two ways that, yeah. I mean, there's no doubt there whatsoever.

Ben 2:02:20

Yeah.

Sir Gene 2:02:22

Yeah. And I, I think, you know, there were rumors of Obama before becoming a Senator, being a, uh, male prostitute in Chicago. And, uh, in fact, uh, servicing some politicians in the Chicago-land area,

Ben 2:02:38

yeah.

Sir Gene 2:02:39

um, you, there was a lot of rumors flying around. It just cause you, you bring up some stuff that may not have been proven. Doesn't make you a conspiracy theorist. A conspiracy is a very particular type of rumor. There are plenty of rumors that are not conspiracy.

Ben 2:02:56

I, 100%. So I, I tend to buy into, uh, you know, a lot of the Obama stuff, given the shakiness of his past and who his mother was and how he was raised and everything else. Um,

Sir Gene 2:03:13

He was cultivated.

Ben 2:03:14

Oh 100%. Uh, I mean, the, he was regardless of whether or not it was actually China that did it. He was a to use the colloquialism, a chair, a Manchurian candidate, for sure. You know, he's raised Barry Sato, but now it goes by Barack Hussein Obama who changes their name to that, you know? And when you, when you read dreams of my father and everything else, when you look at the birth certificate, which I am not necessarily a birther, but,

Sir Gene 2:03:44

It's totally fake. I mean, my God, you look at that thing. When it came out, it has tons of things that are very modern about it.

Ben 2:03:51

well, let's, let's say this, there is evidence of tampering. And whether we, the question becomes isn't whether or not he was born as a us citizen or not, it becomes, okay, why are you lying about this?

Sir Gene 2:04:05

Right.

Ben 2:04:06

Um, so we, we can, we can go six ways to Sunday. And the reason why people get caught up on the birtherism thing and everything else is because his mother was young enough that She could not convey citizenship. And if he was not born on USAW, then he, he is not a us

Sir Gene 2:04:23

couldn't convey citizenship.

Ben 2:04:25

because of her age

Sir Gene 2:04:27

Well, you have to be a certain age to be a citizen

Ben 2:04:29

to convey citizenship.

Sir Gene 2:04:31

that's news to me.

Ben 2:04:32

Yep. It was news to me. too, until I started looking at some of this. And,

Sir Gene 2:04:37

So if somebody has a

Ben 2:04:38

have not reached the age of majority. You can not, you can not convey citizenship. So if your mother, if you have a teenage mother in another country, that's, a us citizen. You are not a us citizen.

Sir Gene 2:04:50

that seems fucked up. Like, I don't like the, if that's an actual rule that that's a dumb rule.

Ben 2:04:55

Well, I, yeah, I tend to

Sir Gene 2:04:57

does being 18 have to do with whether your kid's a citizen or not.

Ben 2:05:02

So it just, it comes down to being able to convey citizenship.

Sir Gene 2:05:06

Right.

Ben 2:05:08

I didn't write the laws

Sir Gene 2:05:09

well, that's a stupid law you wrote right there. I'll tell you that.

Ben 2:05:12

well, and th this is why I don't get too caught up on it because his mother wasn't American and, you know, people talk about him not being a legitimate

Sir Gene 2:05:20

If that's actually his mother, obviously.

Ben 2:05:22

Uh, if that is his mother true,

Sir Gene 2:05:24

Yeah. Cause she may not have been old enough to have them.

Ben 2:05:28

well, regardless, there's lots of bad Obama. That was a very charmed and cultivated life at the very

Sir Gene 2:05:35

yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, they, they did kind of manufactured a lot of that, I think. Uh,

Ben 2:05:41

And George W. Bush is no different. I mean, Jeb was the one that they really wanted to manufacture and put up there, but, you know, Hey, sometimes the idiot brother wins,

Sir Gene 2:05:51

Yeah. And George definitely seemed like he was a bit of the, um, but he certainly had facets of, uh, uh, what's his name? Biden, this kid

Ben 2:06:05

uh, hunter,

Sir Gene 2:06:07

hunter, like the, like he went through his cocaine and

Ben 2:06:10

Oh, Yeah. he, he, he definitely, he, but he, he, he was a Coke head. He didn't do the math and everything else. So, you know, there there's a slight difference. Also, he was doing shady deals in west, Texas, not Ukraine. So, you know, and again, Bush family, his secrets.

Sir Gene 2:06:27

there were plenty of, uh, plenty of dealings with, uh, Russians that he had as well.

Ben 2:06:34

Oh Yeah. Russian oil interest. Um, when you, when you really get down into the details on how he made his money, there's some shady stuff. And there's a lot of dirty, dirty deals that were done now that said, I know some people from west Texas who, uh, I work with that, uh, knew him back in the day. And, uh, they S they think very well of him, but which, okay. But, uh, I'm not a fan of the bushes by any stretch.

Sir Gene 2:07:08

Yeah. I'm, I'm not, uh, I'm not really either, but, but I do think that. Uh, I don't think he's malevolent. I think he was just willing to gun

Ben 2:07:25

I, you

Sir Gene 2:07:26

and into some things I like, I think there were plenty of malevolent actors around him.

Ben 2:07:30

I think his family is malevolent. I think when you look at the actions of Prescott Bush, and you go back, um,

Sir Gene 2:07:37

Well, sure, sure,

Ben 2:07:38

So when, when you look at the treasonous acts of Prescott Bush, um, you know, uh, what was it smiley Butler who had to break up the coup attempt? So, you know, there was a coup attempt in the 1930s and bushes, grand Pappy. He was one of the people pushing it. So I don't know, man. Uh anti-American as far as I'm concerned, when you look at poppy bushes, uh, record world war two, there's some questions around that. Um, and you know, I'm sitting here at home at Texas a and M, which has the Bush school here and everything else. And it, to me, it's a blight. Um, as far as I'm concerned on the campus,

Sir Gene 2:08:17

Have you been to the Bush museum?

Ben 2:08:19

Oh yeah. Many times. Yeah. I met poppy Bush. I met a, I met Clinton. Uh, I've met, uh, Bush Jr. Um, uh, yeah, uh, I have not met Carter and I have not met, uh, Obama are, uh, Trump, so,

Sir Gene 2:08:36

Hmm.

Ben 2:08:37

but the nineties presidents, I got

Sir Gene 2:08:40

And that's it. I don't think I've ever met anybody.

Ben 2:08:44

it.

Sir Gene 2:08:44

I did get pushed out of the way by secret service. So I was within the handshake distance of Clinton,

Ben 2:08:50

Well,

Sir Gene 2:08:51

uh, they thought I was too close.

Ben 2:08:53

yeah, I, I, uh, so I was a student government and Clinton was, uh, at a and M for an event. Um, and it was a meet and greet afterwards, and I got to shake his hand and I will say this when he shakes your hand, he is a seductive seductive man, because it's like, you're the only person in the

Sir Gene 2:09:13

right there. And then didn't ya.

Ben 2:09:14

No, that's not what I meant, but I

Sir Gene 2:09:18

Oh, okay.

Ben 2:09:19

a very good, he's a, he's a very good politician. He

Sir Gene 2:09:21

He is, I, and honestly I think that he could have been on the other side of the political spectrum and he would have been okay with it. I don't think he was in it for the, uh, you know, for, for ideology. I think he was in for the babes.

Ben 2:09:38

uh, you know what, uh, all I can say is we need to work on canceling him and Al gore based off of their campaign material. Um, because the talk about Dixiecrats, um, th literally there's campaign material of, uh, gore and Clinton, uh, with Confederate, uh, Confederate battle flags. Right? So the stars, the, the, the, you know, the, the flag of the army of Northern Virginia, um, which, you know today. Oh my God. And would be just horrible, but yeah. don't forget. He's from MENA, Arkansas.

Sir Gene 2:10:15

Yeah, exactly. I've been to his, um, to his house, uh, there, I mean, like not when he lived there, but, uh, I've been to his birth home

Ben 2:10:27

Okay.

Sir Gene 2:10:29

not particularly, you know, interesting. I also didn't go inside. Uh, but I, uh, I walked around the first house that Hillary and bill owned.

Ben 2:10:43

So while we're talking about, uh, former presidents and everything, did you catch the quote-unquote assassination attempt? The ISIS ISIS assassination attempt, uh, that, uh, they, the FBI authority and against Bush.

Sir Gene 2:10:56

No.

Ben 2:10:58

So there's this joker in Dallas who was driving around and, uh, scoping out. But it w it was a six week cycle thing, man. It was a total setup bullshit thing, but the headline is ISIS tried to kill Bush.

Sir Gene 2:11:12

Hm, wow. Yeah, you're not here about that. Like I said, I've been kind of out of the loop for the last week with birthday stuff coming up and whatnot activities.

Ben 2:11:25

Yeah,

Sir Gene 2:11:27

So. That's right. I've also noticed that we are going long, man. We got, we got a we're deep into the weeds here, so why don't we go ahead and wrap it up. And, uh, before we, uh, make this

Ben 2:11:40

another topic.

Sir Gene 2:11:41

hours, exactly. Which happens a lot. So hopefully everybody enjoyed the talk today. Kind got quite a bit of the gun talk and, and conspiracy talk and all kinds of other talk, um, that, uh, I know I certainly enjoyed participating in. Hopefully you enjoyed listening to it.

Ben 2:11:58

And no technical issues at this time.

Sir Gene 2:12:00

Hey man, we still got a few seconds. Don't don't jinx it. Alright, everybody we'll be back next week. Hopefully you enjoy this. And if you did let us know, you can write to me and gene@sirgene.com.

Ben 2:12:14

And I will have an email address by the time we're here. Next time I've got a domain set aside for it.

Sir Gene 2:12:19

Perfect.