Sir Gene Speaks

0085 Sir Gene Speaks with Dude Named Ben

September 23, 2022 Gene Naftulyev Season 2022 Episode 85
Sir Gene Speaks
0085 Sir Gene Speaks with Dude Named Ben
Show Notes Transcript

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Weekend Gaming Livestream atlasrandgaming onTwitch
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Podcast recorded on Descript and hosted on BuzzSprout

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Sir Gene:

join me once again is sir dude named Ben, how are you today, Ben?

Sir Ben:

I'm doing well, Jean doing well.

Sir Gene:

So you're a guest on my podcast. How's it feel to be a guest on the podcast again?

Sir Ben:

well, we're getting close to the new show. We've got some art coming. That's looking pretty good. We've got theme song that secret agent Paul's working on for us. So we're getting close. We're just not quite there yet. That's why we're doing this one still under yours.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, that's all. So we're just being transparent. Everybody knows it's coming. Everybody knows that. They got something interesting to look forward to the new new independent podcasts. And I'll get back to doing some other interviews with guests on my podcast. So looking forward to that as well. Cause you know, I just had about enough for you.

Sir Ben:

well, I mean, we're still gonna do a weekly show, so I don't know how much you've had enough of me, but yeah. And you know, on the new show, we'll probably bring in people as well. Kind of have we have on this one occasionally, but

Sir Gene:

Yeah. No, I think I think we we're gonna have a good time. The focus, you know, it took a little while I think for us to kind of figure out what the focus was, cuz the first time I, I had you on, on sir gene speaks it was all about weather, climate and electricity.

Sir Ben:

Yep.

Sir Gene:

We've deviated from that quite a bit.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. And, you know, we've really the way this show has ended up and the way the new show is gonna go is kind of a sandwich. If you will, you start off with a fairly serious topic, then we generally devolve into gun, talk something less serious, and then we move back to something more serious.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, it's interesting. I hadn't observed that, but I'll take your word for it. That we're, we're actually doing something like that, which, which is always good to have a description of what the podcast is. That's just a short one sentence description, kinda like I talk about my show unrelenting with Darrell and his other brother Darrell as basically the Seinfeld of podcasts, we literally start the show with no topics and no prep in mind. It's a podcast about nothing. And yet we always seem to talk for a couple hours.

Sir Ben:

yeah, you know, I don't, I don't generally prep topics for the show today. I actually have a couple things that I wanna specifically talk about, but generally it's a free flowing conversation between us

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Well, free flowing, but with some ideas, I know I definitely have a few things I wanna talk about.

Sir Ben:

well, let's get into it.

Sir Gene:

All right, well let's, let's do it. Should we, should we get some segment music made as well, then? Not just intro music so that when we go into a new topic, there's a, some kind of a newsy segment sound.

Sir Ben:

We we'll we'll work on it. We'll work on

Sir Gene:

We'll just have a yeha or something like that

Sir Ben:

yeah. Or tele teletype going off in the background or something. Yeah,

Sir Gene:

or some guns shooting in the background. So let's talk about guns. That's a good topic.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. So, thanks to New York and the credit card industry, all new purchases of guns and ammo will be flagged on credit card purchases and tracked

Sir Gene:

which is interesting, but not surprising because of two things. One the government has realized that it has tremendous power through private industry to be, to be able to accomplish things there, forbidden from accomplishing. For, for example, let me just finish the thought here. So for example I believe it was us bank or maybe chase during January 6th that tracked the routes and locations of everybody that had their app on their phone, along with a transaction purchase geo codes, and then provided that full list of people that were in the Washington DC area on or around January 6th to the FBI, so that they could then figure out who it was in around people up completely warrantless, completely illegal. This is essentially private industry utilizing technology in the way that technology was never rolled out to people to accomplish something on behalf of the government. So my, my personal opinion, not legal advice, this is absolutely illegal use of that private information.

Sir Ben:

Well, it, it, it's something, it's something that they should have a fiduciary responsibility to you to not disclose

Sir Gene:

Yeah, they should, they shouldn't be collecting it. They shouldn't be storing it if they are collecting it and they sure should shouldn't have it organized in the way where they can provide that data. Literally again, without a warrant, there was no war issued for this because it was too broad. It was a voluntary, Hey, would FBI, would you like to have all the data on our customers? Cause we're a good bank. We'd like to be a good pet of the state.

Sir Ben:

mm-hmm

Sir Gene:

So total bullshit. And then of course all the stuff the FBI has done with Facebook no big surprise there. The stepping up of the the ATFs activities in going through and now photographing all receipt books of shops. Now they haven't done all the shops, but they're going through it under the guise of we're here to do a legal verification. But since we're here, we'll just go ahead and take photos of.

Sir Ben:

And then created database in the background that

Sir Gene:

And I think their thought is what we're not creating a database. So it's, there's nothing illegal about it. We're not, we're not banned from taking photos of this data. We're just banned from having a database. That's all, they'll just get some private company to do it for them, because that seems to be the common work around for all the government activities, which they're not supposed to engage in these days is to have a private company voluntarily do something that the government once done. And so what what's talking, what what's gonna happen now is they're gonna be able to leverage the credit card industry, say in the same way, they won't even need a warrant. It'll be chase and visa who are completely woke. We know this from the sponsorships, they do the activities that they block from using their networks. They've already blocked a lot of gun shops. You can't buy a lot of guns with credit cards to begin with, but for the larger places like Cabellas and bass BassPro and whoever else obviously they're still taking credit cards. But now all of those, all of those transactions are gonna be classified as flagged transactions potentially by future criminals.

Sir Ben:

So it's gonna be interesting. So, so out outside of New York with the credit card industry, developing this tag, if you will, for this purchase. So it's gonna be interesting what stores say, you know, acquiesce and say, yes, this is X, Y or Z, because an argument could be made for academy or anything. That's not purely just a gun store that they could still tag it as sports and outdoors or outdoor recreation equipment, because it is a voluntary tag that the store attaches based off of their purchasing system.

Sir Gene:

Anything that starts voluntary. Won't be, it'll be a requirement from a visa MasterCard.

Sir Ben:

agree. Completely agree. But what's interesting about this is that since it's the credit card industry doing this, this doesn't just affect the United States. This is international. This is an international standard that is being implemented.

Sir Gene:

Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It is.

Sir Ben:

So have you read much on new York's new gun law and plans that are going into place?

Sir Gene:

Would, no, I guess I haven't, if

Sir Ben:

New York is now going to require a background check for ammunition purchases and limit the number of rounds purchased at any given time and have a tracking system to track. How many rounds of ammunition you have.

Sir Gene:

so they've given up on guns and they're now trying to just focus on the ammunition part.

Sir Ben:

They they're moving heavily in that direction.

Sir Gene:

I think I have

Sir Ben:

they they've doubled down on the guns as well. They've

Sir Gene:

have the cover art for this.

Sir Ben:

I'm sorry.

Sir Gene:

I, I just found the cover art for this episode.

Sir Ben:

What's that? Oh, gotcha. perfect.

Sir Gene:

I, I bought some bacon broccoli salad and the price was 3 33.

Sir Ben:

3 30,

Sir Gene:

Uhhuh magic number. Anyway, so yeah, ammunition control. Well, talk a little more about that. And then I, I wanna talk about the original origins of the NFA

Sir Ben:

Yeah. So this New York law, you know, it, it, it doesn't prohibit importation into the state by individuals. So if you go to Pennsylvania and by ammo, you're not going to be affected. Like they're not gonna stop you at the border and go whoa, yet, yet. Very, it is definitely a slippery slope in that direction. Also, since they're instituting this background check for ammo, it's not clear in the law yet to any of the FFLs and gun stores out there that, you know, are just mom and pop fish and tackle store that also sells ammo a how they're going to have to process that. And B if they don't get an answer on the background, check back, do they decline the purchase?

Sir Gene:

Well, is

Sir Ben:

mandatory waiting period?

Sir Gene:

limit on purchase at per store? So you just go to a bunch of stores then, or what

Sir Ben:

For now I, I, but it won't be that long before. Hey, you're over your monthly allotment of ammo purchases. What's going on.

Sir Gene:

do you already had your box through the month?

Sir Ben:

Exactly. How much are you shooting? Good. God.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, police officers are given 50 rounds a year. What, how do you need more than that?

Sir Ben:

Well, it, you know, this is one of those things that I absolutely just, if you, if people aren't seeing the writing on the wall of what's coming, man, you've gotta stock up. Now. You really need to,

Sir Gene:

All right. There you are shilling ammo,

Sir Ben:

I, Hey, I have no dog in the hunt other than wanting free people. I mean yeah. Free as in free and able to defend their country against enemies foreign and domestic. And right now it's looking more like domestic.

Sir Gene:

yeah, like it's not even China pulling strings it's it's the idiots and that are trying to deprive themselves and others of basic freedoms.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. So let's talk about the unconstitutional NFA that has never seen this Supreme court challenge yet.

Sir Gene:

So what I was under the impression of was the NFA had focused on the items that are currently banned, which would be machine guns, short barreled rifles, and shotguns and silencers. And then when I read a little bit of history, I was quite surprised and realized that, oh, well, this makes more sense now. So the, the NFA. Much like the evolution movement on alcohol came about as a, let's throw the baby out with the bathwater movement in the us predominantly by large cities, because that's usually where bad ideas come from to ban all firearms. That was the goal. And obviously that would be a hard uphill battle given the second amendment. And while there might have been enough support to get the states to pass an anti alcohol amendment, there was not enough support to get all these places that weren't cities to support a getting rid of the second amendment amendment to the constitution. And originally the idea was okay, well, if we can't ban guns, let's do the next best thing, which the government has the power to do. Let's tax them into impossibility. So they're technically legal, but they're practically illegal. The idea being that there would be a crazy tax of $200 per gun. And when I say guns, I don't mean rifles. I mean all guns, handguns, shotguns, rifles.

Sir Ben:

let's put that into a perspective. When was that $200 tax implemented

Sir Gene:

That was implemented in 1930. What? Four? Yeah. Which would make it about $3,000 right now. So imagine going to the store, when the price of a firearm back then was $25, like a decent firearm and then having to pay a $200 tax on a $25 firearm much like today going to the store by a, a decent firearm for 800 bucks.

Sir Ben:

yeah. So just to give a little bit of perspective here, based off of a quick inflation calculator, and this is not shadow stats, so it's probably worse than this in 1934, $200 is the equivalent of $4,422

Sir Gene:

So even more. Yeah, I was, I, when I did the bath real quickly, it just looked like about three grand. So four, four and a half grand, even better. So four and a half thousand dollars tax on what would be a few hundred dollars gun today. So you buy a, a Glock 22 for $600 for pistol and a tax on that would be four and a half thousand dollars. So that was their sort of realization that it's gonna be impossible to get an amendment to actually ban guns. So what can we do without coming to go through the amendment process? Well, we have the power of taxation so we can regulate. Through taxation and what happened was, and I'm abbreviating this story a lot, but there was just not enough support to ban handguns, which was the ultimate goal because handguns represented the majority of the guns used in cities. And the reason that we even have a ban on short barreled rifles rifles and short barreled shotguns is because making those short barrel would be a way to turn them into what was the original target of that legislation, which were pistols. So the idea was that if pistols aren't allowed, then you shouldn't be able to take your allowed shotgun and chop off the stock and the the barrel and turn it into a shotgun pistol without paying this crazy amount of money.

Sir Ben:

Well, and also the NFA originally was not going to ban any firearm that had military use. That was also a big part of the politics of even getting it through was it was not to remove military use firearms. So the reason why the short barrel shotgun thing stood even though during war war I, there was a trench gun that was used. That was essentially a short barreled shotgun is because when the court case went to the Supreme court, the guy who had brought the case was no longer with us. And essentially only the government side of the story was told. So the NFA has never had a serious Supreme court hearing.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. And so again, what I just want, you kind of wrap this up in the bow is that the original aim of the NFA was neither preventing people from having short rifles, because that makes no sense. A short rifle is a worse rifle that that's just empirically true, but it only does make sense in the context of history, which is their goal was to make all handguns go away or at least be expensive enough that only super rich people could afford 'em or people that had special licensing from the state to have them as part of their jobs. And so when they lost the battle on handguns, they didn't give up the battle on things that could be shortened to make them more like handguns AKA rifles and shotguns. The machine gun portion of it. I think that was tied more to the the war on the the mafia, because machine guns were always been much more expensive than regular guns, because it's not just a matter of changing out one part and you're good to go. Machine guns have to be made to be able to work under much higher temperatures. The quality of the work has the quality of the parts has to be substantially better. And you know, they're gonna be more prone to accidents that result in physical you know, damage to the people using them, not just gun itself, if you have something that is poorly made or made to simply be a single shotgun and then convert it into something that's shooting 1100 grounds per minute.

Sir Ben:

Yeah, quick two things on that, you know, the, the manufacturing band didn't come in until play till 86. So there's that the, so machine guns could be made in sold to civilians up until 1986. The that's when the real ban on machine guns, if you

Sir Gene:

Well, that's, that's an actual band. What I'm talking about is this original idea of using the tax because nobody in 1934, I think envisioned that the government could simply ban something like a machine gun, even, even as far as the machine gun. And that the people would stand for it. Like they knew there would be another, another revolutionary war in the United States. If that happened.

Sir Ben:

And, and this is, this is that Overton window moving where, you know what one generation tolerates the next accepts. And that's a problem. I don't know if I've told the story or not. And then I've got a question for you,

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

my grandfather, world war I veteran was working at Magnolia oil. In fact, I think I have, but he, they said, bill, you can't bring your gun to work anymore. You can't wear your gun to work. He was a few years away from retirement and he ended up quitting instead. So he left behind a pension and everything because he was not going to not carry his gun. And you know, it, it's amazing to me how. We've come full circle. And I think about what he would think of the world today, you know, I, I think he'd be pretty ashamed of where we're at.

Sir Gene:

I think everybody would be

Sir Ben:

Yeah.

Sir Gene:

it's. It is pretty, pretty shameful to what the, the last few generations have allowed things to get to.

Sir Ben:

So Jean, let me ask you this. When did the tax stamps start having to go through background checks and law enforcement approval? Because I don't believe that was in the original NFA.

Sir Gene:

not, no, no,

Sir Ben:

think you could go to the post office and buy the tax stamp at

Sir Gene:

Exactly exactly that came out that came about during the 1960s and resulted in the gun control act of 1968, because part of what that gun control act needed to do was to clarify and put some parameters around exactly how far do the activities of the tax collectors need to go. And and so a again, what we have is a history of very few, very few words, in fact, written as actual laws, as legislation and a tremendous amount of money and a big department that has been empowered by both Republican and Democrats, presidents, and Republican Democrat controls of the Senate in the house to essentially do their own thing and treat regulations that come about at the whim of whoever is currently running the, at the ATF as though their laws.

Sir Ben:

It's you know, it's a, it's a scary thing. But when we look at a couple recent Supreme court decisions, I think there's hope so when we look at Dobbs and we look at some of these others that have come out, that essentially say, you know, for the second amendment there has to be a history of regulation and tradition of regulation based off the time the amendment was written. And then also another ruling I'm linking on the name of it that essentially says Congress cannot delegate its authority to make law, meaning all these regulatory instances where the EPA or the ATF come up with you know, regulations in addition to what Congress passed. So an example health and human services, when Obamacare was passed, there were tons and tons of parts of the law that said the secretary of a JS shall create legis, you know, regulation. Well, essentially that's been knocked back. So now we just need some Supreme court cases to go up and challenge it. The problem is, you know, people aren't really willing to put their life and their Liberty on hold to challenge this. And, you know, quite frankly, we're gonna have to have a few martyrs who stand up and go do that and go do that

Sir Gene:

it's worse than that. It's not just people not willing to spend a million plus dollars. It's it's that?

Sir Ben:

a very low

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, millions, but it's also that the machine does not let people do that. Meaning this has happened a number of times to cases that could have affect. The NFA in the past is that when they get up to a certain level of review the ATF simply drops charges or settles the case, and immediately files a no, no standing provision with the courts saying this, there, there is no case anymore because the original the original trigger for the original point for the case no longer exists and therefore removes standing.

Sir Ben:

and you know,

Sir Gene:

And it prevents, it's a technique to simply prevent cases

Sir Ben:

a dirty

Sir Gene:

from going to a Supreme court. Well, it's cheating, but it's legal. I mean, there's nothing stopping them from doing it. And they've been doing it for literally the last 45 years.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. Well, we

Sir Gene:

time a cor a case gets too close. Well, what would be good is for somebody to have a standing that is unremovable so effectively, it has to be a state, not an individual that ends up suing them. It has to be a state which is affected by a regulation in a matter that if that, like, there, there shouldn't be a way to settle or for them to remove charges. It has to be a state, basically that comes up with a way saying that. They're taking revenue from the state that belongs to the state or something some weird way. And I'm just pulling stuff out there, but there has to be a case which prevents them, precludes them from making the other party loose, standing as a result of the ATF backing down.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. So one thing that I think could trigger that outside of a state in Texas with the suppressor law, I think is getting a pretty good push there. But if you had additional people like manufacturers of suppressors under the Texas law, saying a suppressor made in Texas can be legally bought and sold. And as long as it stays in Texas borders because the government has no right to regulate commerce inside of Texas. So if you have a manufacturer that does that or a manufacturer that say, Hey, I'm gonna violate the 1986 band and I'm gonna build something, not that I'm advocating this, and this is not legal advice, but that person would likely be in a position where the ATF could not back down, but they're also in a position to get royally screwed by said ATF too. If it goes the

Sir Gene:

well, the, the ATFs already done that in Texas and the way that you deal with somebody without backing down is simply to burn them and their children and their wives houses to the ground. And in fact, their entire church because that'll teach.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. When they could have arrested him at Walmart,

Sir Gene:

What we're talking about, obviously. Is the what was the name of the guy

Sir Ben:

David Kresh and the branch Davidians in Waco, you know, it, it's sad. I I've gone to Mount Carmel and you know, there's nothing there at this point. And by the way, the Britishers IANS are still in the area. They're still a thing. And I'm not saying David crash was a good dude or anything else.

Sir Gene:

I heard a song. He did. He was actually not a bad singer.

Sir Ben:

you know, I, I, there, I thought about making some jokes regarding him and Tim pool at one point, but I'll leave it there.

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

Um, but anyway, regardless, even if you think that he was a horrible human being one, he never faced any charges around the allegations of sexual assault. So there's that the only charges and the reason why the ATF went in there was around firearms. And, you know, they said, we've gotta go get him. We've gotta go do this. Well, he went to, it was very predictable. He went to the Walmart every Saturday morning. He was out there. He was out jogging, walking there many times when they could have picked him up and they didn't have to do it that way. And I'm sorry, but watching the footage and looking at it. The a, the FBI and the ATF fired first.

Sir Gene:

absolutely.

Sir Ben:

Also they used tanks against American civilians.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm Yeah there. I remember watching that live when it was happening and back then it was not, I don't think it seemed strange that there would need to be this much of a buildup to simply serve a a warrant or a yeah, an arrest warrant for somebody. I mean, it's kinda like isn't the goal here to just get him to come to court because it sure didn't seem like that was the goal. It seemed like the goal was for them to destroy that entire religion.

Sir Ben:

The goal was to take a group of what the government saw as dissidents in the,

Sir Gene:

Crazy gun nuts.

Sir Ben:

well, in that you gotta also remember and put this in context that this is after Ruby Ridge. So the Patriot movement and lots of subdivisions thereof were organizing and were, you know, conducting training and doing different things. And this made the Clinton administration very, very nervous. And literally, I think they chose the branch to Videon a because KSH was a little kooky I've watched some of his sermons and looked at things and I, I don't think he was

Sir Gene:

careful. Now you're gonna implicate.

Sir Ben:

no, I, I, dude, I've also, I've also read mine comp. That doesn't

Sir Gene:

Oh, you're not allowed to do either one of those things.

Sir Ben:

Okay. I've also read dos Cappe towel and lots of things, you know, that's this, you, I

Sir Gene:

no, no, no. You should leave it up to your betters to interpret that for you.

Sir Ben:

Huh. Anyway you know, watching some of Keisha's sermons and you know, the government line at the time was, oh, he thinks he's the Messiah. He thinks he's the second coming.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

That's not what he says. He calls himself Messiah. He talks about saving his flock, but based off of, you know, king James and looking at strong concordance and everything else, you know, when we're called to be fishers of men and so on, that's literally the same sort of language that's being used there. So for him to say, I am a Messiah is not crazy. It's him saying? I'm trying to save people. I'm trying to bring them to my, what I believe is my religious views. That's very different

Sir Gene:

it's a little more

Sir Ben:

I'm the second coming of Christ.

Sir Gene:

I think Messiah in, in it has to include the fact that it is not him as just the person making rational decisions that rather he has been inhabited by and guided by holy spirit.

Sir Ben:

A agreed. But my, my point is he was the government's claim was that he was saying, he's the second coming of

Sir Gene:

even if

Sir Ben:

And that was

Sir Gene:

what, how does that automatically mean? You have to shoot the guy with a tank.

Sir Ben:

the well, but they were,

Sir Gene:

is the coming of Christ in the us turn into the biggest raid on a us citizens in the history of the us,

Sir Ben:

yeah, but the, the parallel and the, the propaganda that the government was issuing at the time was trying to tie him more to like Jim Jones. And, you know, this is a crazy cult. That's what they were trying to do. And when you look back at it, they were a little kooky, but I wouldn't put 'em in the same category,

Sir Gene:

Yeah. And I think crazy cults are sort of self

Sir Ben:

self isolation.

Sir Gene:

you know, they like the guys with the Nike shoes that were waiting for the ha comic to come by.

Sir Ben:

Well, and yeah.

Sir Gene:

know, it's a cult, they

Sir Ben:

Are the people who wear Adidas,

Sir Gene:

themselves. Or now that's a country. That's not a cult. That's an entire nation with sovereignty. The ideas track suit nation. If you will Uhhuh

Sir Ben:

yeah.

Sir Gene:

you better watch it there. Boy,

Sir Ben:

You know, what's funny about this entire thing. It's not really funny, but it's, it's disparaging and sad is that the sheriff at the time knew knew the DNS knew him well. And, you know, Waco is a pretty conservative area. It's it's even to this day,

Sir Gene:

Boy. There's a lot of billboards up there for life begins. Its conception.

Sir Ben:

well sons of Confederate veterans still have a Confederate battle flag. Our battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia flying right off I, 35. The John Birch society has a pretty active chapter there. I mean, it's a conservative area. Anyway, the sheriff knew the D Videon pretty well. And one of his arguments at the time that he made on the local news media is this didn't have to happen. They could have handed me the warrant and I could have walked up there and he would've walked out with me.

Sir Gene:

absolutely. Yeah. Which incidentally is exactly how the game fire cry five starts off when you're a deputy and you're showing up to deliver a warrant and take the leader of a religious group in with you. And it doesn't go so well.

Sir Ben:

Well, anyway, when the ATF showed up They did so in a very bombastic way, I, I truly believe they fired first. You had the same sniper who killed Randy Weaver's wife and son involved. You know, it was just a

Sir Gene:

I was that Asian guy, right?

Sir Ben:

Yep. Who, God, I'm gonna butcher's name. I'm trying to remember what it was anyway. People can Google it. It's he? Not a good, not a good dude. Sir. No, that was the guy who shot Reagan, but

Sir Gene:

No, that's, that's a

Sir Ben:

no,

Sir Gene:

guy, man.

Sir Ben:

That

Sir Gene:

so happened. It was the same guy he was on the

Sir Ben:

know, you know,

Sir Gene:

I remember Saturday night live did a, a bit, many years ago back when they were actually funny on or man, no, it wasn't Saturday night live. What am I saying? It was mad. TV did a bit,

Sir Ben:

oh, mad

Sir Gene:

they actually were funny. They were very politically incorrect for almost their entire run dated a bit on Z Zapruder. You know, the guy who filmed the Kennedy Associa and like, discovering all these other little eight millimeter films that the guy filmed.

Sir Ben:

mm-hmm

Sir Gene:

And they had like the, I mean, it, I can't remember what all of 'em were, but there was like a dozen different assassination going all the way back to the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. Like the guy just happened to have been at each of these locations with his camera running,

Sir Ben:

you, you know, the history of the Lincoln assassination

Sir Gene:

get what's coming to him.

Sir Ben:

agreed. But John Wilkes booth was not a lone actor. There were actually others who were supposed to take out grant at the same time

Sir Gene:

Really?

Sir Ben:

out

Sir Gene:

Well, that'll, that'll happen.

Sir Ben:

now. So it was supposed to be coordinated attack.

Sir Gene:

Hmm. I just not aware of that.

Sir Ben:

Yep.

Sir Gene:

So what was the goal then?

Sir Ben:

To de, to decapitate the tyrannical monster of then the quote unquote legitimate United States government that not only waged a illegal war, but suspended Haas Corpus to prevent Maryland from succeeding and jailed political opponents illegally and without charges. And oh, also then occupied states that it said, had been in rebellion, made them rewrite their constitution and prevented them from electing any persons or people that they saw fit, which I actually think the assassination of Lincoln probably made reconstruction worse. And what people have to realize is that a lot of the racial tensions that exist in the south and were paramount by the 1920s was really the height of racial tensions in the south were caused. Caused absolutely directly by reconstruction and what was done.

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm well, the, you know, the victors get to write the history books.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. And, you know, there, there are some people who try and present ancillary views to history and they always get labeled crazy. David Irving is a great example, which I'm not saying David Irving's histories of world war II are completely accurate, but you know, he his first work, when he was talking about the fire bombing of Dresden was not even questioned. It's only when he got into motivations of the war and questioning some of the narrative around the Holocaust that he got labeled as, oh my God. A Holocaust iron and a horrible person. All I know about world war II, history and reconstruction in the south, I have my opinions on the south more because I have family diaries and family history. So I tend to believe that more. But my opinion on war II and the civil war and reconstruction, especially, is that all I know is I've not been told the truth.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, that's true.

Sir Ben:

So on, on my bookshelf, one of the things that my parents gave me that is pretty interesting. It was written. In the 1890s is is a volume of war of rebellion and it's nothing but the historical records from the time. So what I have is the, and this is a first first draft or a first printing original copy of that that's pretty rare. But anyway, the one I have is the army of Northern Louisiana their correspondence and orders at the time. And it's 2000 pages long. It's nothing but that. And you start reading through there and you get a pretty good idea of what was going on and, you know, it's, it's not propaganda. This is what the armies were saying back and forth.

Sir Gene:

Well, and I think I told you what I remember seeing at, at my parents' house when I was a kid was a kind of a coffee tabled book that was newspaper articles. So it was basically, you know, photographs of the front pages of newspapers in the south, before and during and right after the civil war.

Sir Ben:

Mm-hmm

Sir Gene:

so it was, it was a sort of civil war from the perspective of people living through it rather than civil war academically after the fact.

Sir Ben:

well, and, but keep in mind with that newspapers up until.

Sir Gene:

always gonna be biased. No matter what side, but, but I think that's true of anything. I mean, reporting what the orders were is probably about as unbiased as you can get, but virtually anything that anybody describes an event as is going to imply a certain amount of bias from their perspective. That's why I always kind of with a big smile on my face, always referred to the American civil or the the civil war as the the war in Northern aggression. Because I think you could definitely argue that that's what it was, but more importantly, it's, it's just the you know, I, I like making people feel uncomfortable, so it it's the, the end result of saying that that for me is the end goal. Not whether that was accurate or not.

Sir Ben:

yeah. So on that bias note, one thing I will say that this was something that from my formative years really stuck out in has stuck with me when the us invaded Iraq in 2000 and three the headlines on CNN and,

Sir Gene:

you mean the second time? The us invaded

Sir Ben:

Second time. The headlines in CNN and Fox said war in Iraq and Al Jazeera had. On war on Iraq, that's literally one letter difference, but an entirely different meaning.

Sir Gene:

yeah. And it wasn't even the war on Iraq, as much as I think it was a war on on the middle east in general. I think that there was a lot of a lot of pent up, maybe not very well pent up frustration from 2001. And the, I think the majority of the us public would've supported a war with any of those countries, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, whatever the country, the government said was responsible. The American public would've been right behind and, and happy to go kick some ass,

Sir Ben:

yeah. Well, all, all I can say is WTC seven and at the very least our government allowed it to happen if we're not absolutely involved. And when you think of the fact that the hijackers, you know, some fur of them were Saudi Arabian yet we didn't go there, you know,

Sir Gene:

And the only planes allowed to fly in us aerospace immediately there after were Saudi Arabian planes

Sir Ben:

the bin Laden family got out.

Sir Gene:

not just, there was a lot of planes that

Sir Ben:

But I'm just saying the they're not Saudi Arabian. So the bin lions did get out.

Sir Gene:

belongs are Saudi Arabian. What are you talking about?

Sir Ben:

Okay. The bin Ladens reside in several countries, but sure.

Sir Gene:

The bin Laden family is direct relative of the current ruler of Saudi Arabia. The bin Laden family are Saudis.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. And you know, the bin Ladens and the house of sod and the Bush family were real tight. Bush family of secrets is a great book that outlines the relationship there.

Sir Gene:

absolutely. Yeah. That's

Sir Ben:

and you know, people, people who sit there and say, oh, the government would never do that. And Bush would never be involved with something like that. You gotta remember that his grandfather literally tried to overthrow the government. Prescott Bush was part of a cabal that was going to try and stage a military co of the us government in the

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

That's not fiction. That's not debatable smiley Butler because of that Marine and him saying no. And uncovering it is the only reason that didn't happen. They chose the wrong Marine Corps general to try and use to prop up and have a military coup in the United States.

Sir Gene:

Well, they figured out another way the grandkid

Sir Ben:

Yeah.

Sir Gene:

and, and, and great grandkid.

Sir Ben:

Yeah.

Sir Gene:

Now it it's I, I think it's the thing that people have to remember is that when somebody become. Well known, whether it's as a politician or a movie actor or the queen of England or anything, ultimately they're humans and they're human foibles and personality traits negative some of the time, maybe positive some time they don't disappear. They're still there. So we, we hope that for one type of position, at least in this country, that people are able to control their personalities. And that is judges because we want them to be as impartial as possible. But, but even you look at the, the amount of judges that allow their emotions and their personalities and their biases to end up altering the way that they rule. It's, it's very visible all the time, if just most recently watching the Alex Jones case that judge had a, a seething,

Sir Ben:

she was a prosecutor.

Sir Gene:

a hatred of Jones. Yeah, she was, she was doing more of that work of the prosecutor than the prosecutor was that, and I'm sure in her mind she was completely in control and, you know, I'm sure if she doesn't interview in the future, say, yeah, it was really hard for me to try and be as impartial as I was. But I think I succeeded because I was able to separate my personal disdain for. Absolutely horrible man, responsible for so much hatred in the world. From my job as a judge. Well, to those of us watching, no, you did a horrible job separating those two. That's the thing people what's that

Sir Ben:

As soon as she's off the bench

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

book deal. I

Sir Gene:

oh, she probably already has a book deal. Yeah. Yeah. Well remember that you know, while people convicted of a crime are not allowed to profit on book deals, people that were involved in catching them and prosecuting them, absolutely get book deals. I remember that with Kevin Mitnick

Sir Ben:

Oh yeah.

Sir Gene:

where the guy that Kevin not really. I mean, I've been in the same event with him. I maybe stood 10 feet away, but I've never talked to him.

Sir Ben:

So Kevin Mitnick was a somewhat of a childhood hero for me,

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

you know?

Sir Gene:

You had thick glasses as well.

Sir Ben:

no, actually I have, I don't wear glasses at all, so I have actually very good vision. Thank you. But no, Mitnick was definitely a, a hero of mine reading about his exploits and you know, it, Kevin Mitnick is not a technical guy. He, he really isn't a hacker. He's a social engineer and anyway,

Sir Gene:

Yeah, no, that was totally true. But do you remember the, the whole story of the why he ended up getting caught?

Sir Ben:

I maybe don't remember the details on exactly why he got caught. I remember the details around the phone, freaking and the exploits and things like that. I don't know that I remember the details on why he got caught.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Well, he got caught because he made fun of a security professional. And the thing that you have to remember is a security professional, unlike a hacker or a security interested person has a multimillion dollar budget behind them. And he can use that budget to do things that most people can't. So in the sense, I think that was the misjudgment that Kevin had was that

Sir Ben:

I, I think that was more true in the nineties. I think there's a lot more control now. I mean, I had a pretty damn big budget working for the company I worked for and I was pretty constrained on the types of tools and activities I could use. Now that said, I, at one point in time I had at, before I left, I had 35 contractors reporting to me that I could direct to do anything I wanted and they were all. And when I say contractors, I'm not talking low level it guys, these were. Pretty high end, at least three of 'em I would put in that world class category. So yeah.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, well, the PO the point of a big budget is it allows you to buy airplane tickets. It lets you do things that most people aren't gonna spend money to do.

Sir Ben:

Oh yeah. Well,

Sir Gene:

so, you know, in, in the end it became easier to set him up and then make sure that the feds were there rather than you know, the Fed's actually getting him on their own.

Sir Ben:

yeah. I don't know why there wasn't a Kevin Mitnick movie, you know, you've got catchman, if you can and stuff

Sir Gene:

Yeah. There are, there probably will be

Sir Ben:

there was a made for TV one in the nineties, but that doesn't really count.

Sir Gene:

no, no, no, but I remember all those free Kevin stickers and everything.

Sir Ben:

Oh yeah,

Sir Gene:

That was a, that was a thing. Yeah, I think that a lot of, a lot of what people learned from him was well, maybe not a lot, but some of the things they learned from him was that just because someone's wearing a uniform doesn't mean you should believe them.

Sir Ben:

absolutely. Yeah, I, I I've definitely used some of his social engineering techniques and some pen tests in the past.

Sir Gene:

Yeah,

Sir Ben:

way to get initial foothold. And if you think about it, modern fishing is just an extension of what he did early on, especially the targeted stuff. But

Sir Gene:

definitely the case. And there's I mean, some of this stuff I think is somewhat obvious, but some of it was definitely kind of brought to the forefront by Kevin and a lot of the other people that specialized on really doing social engineering rather than being technically good.

Sir Ben:

so Jean, have you ever read none dare call it conspiracy.

Sir Gene:

no,

Sir Ben:

So

Sir Gene:

is this the book of the week?

Sir Ben:

well, it's an old recommendation of mine. So if you read the creature from Jeal island is a more detailed account and it's way thicker, and we will probably make your eyes glow glaze over because of all the facts that are presented to you. But it it's kinda like Anthem for iron Rand. None dare call it. Conspiracy is a good introductory book to to that. It was put out actually in the seventies before the creature from Jack island or anything else. And it's it's a, it was de denounced as a conspiracy theory and everything else, but you know, very much proven to be true. And given the economic times we're in anyone who doesn't understand the current Fiat fun coupon world we're living in really should go read NIR, call it conspiracy, and then move on to the creature from Al island,

Sir Gene:

What's it about?

Sir Ben:

well, it's about the federal reserve and the federal reserve act and how the central banks are de debating our currency. How every dollar of U every dollar,

Sir Gene:

there. It's their currency. It's not our currency.

Sir Ben:

it is and every dollar that is in existence today is backed by debt. So if you were to pay off all the debt that is owed in us dollars, you would have no us dollars.

Sir Gene:

yeah,

Sir Ben:

And literally, I

Sir Gene:

is. It's a zero sum system. Yep.

Sir Ben:

yes. So, and what, what is insane is when you look at our foreign aid and our foreign aid packages, and the reason why we're propping up regimes through the IMF and everything else, you know, it, it's a pretty big departure from the Britain woods agreement. And really it was Nixon that kind of broke the us part of the Britain woods agreement. But we continued to use us dollars in the IMF and it it's all resulted in us being in a very interesting position. And I say all this as to preface that Russia and China are now officially rolling out their new currency, that is going to be backed by precious metals and rare earth elements.

Sir Gene:

Well, you think about it. Really what Fiat currency is are a, a bunch of IUs it's a, it's actually kinda ingenious if you think about it, because rather than being a system that is backed by something that everybody wants, it is a system that is backed by something that everybody promises. So it, it, it can be expanded, infinitely and does not require for there to be an infinite amount of precious metals or anything else available in order to keep expanding the system. I think it's a really cool system. I think that it's the problem is most people don't understand how it works. And I think if you understand how it works and what it is it, it is a cool system. It's a neat design from a, you know, from a mass standpoint, you've gotta appreciate it as. Because what we're doing is we're much like blockchain is a neat system. This is a neat system of being able to have a bunch of transactions that are tied to other transactions and could not exist without those other transactions previously happening. Because as you quite rightly said, if all the, all the loans are paid off, the system has zero in it.

Sir Ben:

So the interesting thing there though is in history, anytime you've had fractional reserve banking, and at this point we're beyond that there is no fractional reserve. You

Sir Gene:

infinite fractional reserve banking,

Sir Ben:

I'm sorry.

Sir Gene:

infinite fractional reserve banking.

Sir Ben:

exactly. The problem is you end up with too much ch money chasing, chasing too Fu goods. You end up with inflation and the house of cards ends up collapsing on itself. And you know, we, during the Imar Republic, the day over day, the height of inflation during the Imar Republic was 40 some odd percent. So you go by a

Sir Gene:

22.

Sir Ben:

right? But we're getting close. This is my point.

Sir Gene:

exactly right.

Sir Ben:

So the VOR Republic, the day over day inflation rate was 40%. So if you paid a dollar for a loaf of bread, the next day, it would be a dollar 40 and so on. That's where you end up with wheelbarrows of money to go pay off something. That's where you end up with African republics, having billion notes or Koreans and the yin you know, being what it is.

Sir Gene:

Well, that that's true. The, I think inflation, it has some pros and it has some cons. But I think that under if you maintain the system working, not freeform, but actually as a control system, then the the Fiat currency system, I think is a pretty, I don't know. I'm I'm not gonna say like, yes, we should have it. I think the gold reserve is a cleaner, simpler system that everybody can understand or some other precious commodities doesn't have to be gold, some other commodities in general, but the Fiat system in the way that it's, I, that it's implemented with a control in place, I think is very.

Sir Ben:

so what I'll say is I will agree that in a modern world, a Fiat currency can be. I'm gonna piss off a lot of people here. So one group knows nothing about the Fiat system. The other group thinks the Fiat system is just trash. And then you have the Bitcoin Bitcoiners who sit there and say, Bitcoin isn't Fiat. Well by ne by definition is yes, you have some proof of work and things that have to go through to create Bitcoin is inherently deflationary, which I think is somewhat problematic. Because you don't want deflation or inflation. What you want is a stable currency. And if you maintain your currency at positive negative one to 2%, you're in a stable economy. And as long as that currency stays stable, that's fine. But all I can say is, go look at the M one money stock and look at the the rate of inflation of our currency. It's insane.

Sir Gene:

it's beyond hockey stick. Yeah. Although to be fair, that, that, that completely vertical segment that you see in there was actually a change in, in definition. Not, not a,

Sir Ben:

it was a change in the rules around checking. Yes.

Sir Gene:

the savings. Yeah.

Sir Ben:

Savings accounts, basically being able to use be used as checking and the M one money stock talks about money and circulation. So not invested, not, not locked away. Now the savings accounts can be used this way, but like, if you have something in a CD or something that has you, you can't access that money for a period of time. It is not counted in that. So. I I, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe like savings in 401ks is not counted in that. It's part of the reason why you pay a penalty. If you take it out before

Sir Gene:

Well, 401k isn't but savings is now.

Sir Ben:

is now. Yes. And that's where that vertical hockey stick came from. Which how disappointing is it that with that rule change, that's all that it went up,

Sir Gene:

well, that's one way to look at it. That's true.

Sir Ben:

just

Sir Gene:

how little money is in,

Sir Ben:

yes. In

Sir Gene:

savings accounts don't really make a whole lot of sense. It's basically the most liquid form of investment that you can have. Cause what, what does it paid? Like half a percent

Sir Ben:

if that yeah, I mean, I, I,

Sir Gene:

I remember back when they actually paid like five, 6%, but

Sir Ben:

I remember two and a half as a kid. But you know, I basically, all I keep in savings is emergency monies. Everything else is in money market or something else or hard assets. So

Sir Gene:

Yeah. So

Sir Ben:

to stay liquid and that's about it.

Sir Gene:

Tim Cass had an episode where they talked about the you know, the, I guess it was based on an article that someone wrote where she honestly, they thought admitted to the fact that as a liberal. She probably would only survive a week if there was an actual,

Sir Ben:

Yeah. I saw

Sir Gene:

civil war. Right. And in that conversation, in that whole segment, they talked about, well, you know what, how do you do it? And you gotta raise your own chickens. Cuz Tim likes chickens and all that good stuff. And they were talking about how well, you know, you can't use credit cards anymore. You, so you gotta have cash. And then people, well cash. Isn't gonna do you any good? You really? What you need are tradeable commodities. Like ammo, ammo becomes a new currency in, in the collapsed economy because it's actually usable. People want it. Yeah. Salt is another one. Salt is like, you can't live without salt. You can't store food without salt. You don't need tobacco. So there's a,

Sir Ben:

need it.

Sir Gene:

well, those people, I guess won't stick around for long. So there's a lot of alcohol. You're definitely gonna need to trade some whiskey for sure. But the one thing that never came up and I, I, I kept waiting for 'em to mention it and see how they would address it. And it never came up is Bitcoin. Cuz Bitcoin is completely useless when there's no electricity.

Sir Ben:

when there's no internet. I mean, even if you

Sir Gene:

yeah. There's no internet. There's no

Sir Ben:

have the network.

Sir Gene:

Well, they were talking about a state where there's no running water. So this is well beyond no.

Sir Ben:

yeah. There's no way to update the ledger. There's no way to have a

Sir Gene:

you're done. So that's why I it's hilarious to me every time somebody, and, and again, I buy Bitcoin on a regular basis. I'm a buying hold guy. It's never gonna get sold unless it hits a million per Bitcoin. That's my self point. So it's basically never gonna get sold cuz Bitcoin's not likely to over hit him. So consequently like even though I buy it, I buy a little bit of it every month. But that's, to me it's like buying a lottery ticket, right? You don't buy, 'em expecting to win. You buy 'em because it makes you feel good to feel like you have a chance. Maybe that's the same thing with Bitcoin. And, and so you're like you said, it has to require electricity. It requires the internet being operational. When we had our freeze for seven days, I had no power in Texas seven days with no electricity internet might have been working for the rest of the world. It wasn't working here. I couldn't do Jack shit with any Bitcoin here

Sir Ben:

mm-hmm well, what I'd say is that, you know, the people who say, oh, it's a hedge against inflation. Well, as we see inflation go up, what do we see?

Sir Gene:

goes down. Yeah,

Sir Ben:

and the reason why is because there were people who were substantially leveraged in Bitcoin and as things get more expensive, then have to sell off. So then that naturally drops the price. So Bitcoin is not magical. It, it is not a magical hedge against inflation. It is not a hard currency,

Sir Gene:

You know what hasn't dropped in price

Sir Ben:

Fiat currency. What's that?

Sir Gene:

the Rubal. No, I'm just kidding. I, I, I have to say that. No, no. What I was gonna say is fine. Art, fine. Art has not dropped in price

Sir Ben:

it, it will though it

Sir Gene:

No, because rich people, people that can afford to have a you know, $300,000 painting in their house are not being affected in the same way. As the average American is who had maybe a thousand bucks of Bitcoin and now needs a thousand dollars to pay for the car getting fixed

Sir Ben:

yeah. I would say buy $300,000 worth of ammo before you buy a painting, but whatever, you know, what's interesting though. I did

Sir Gene:

Amma's depreciating now

Sir Ben:

From its height.

Sir Gene:

not a, not a good hold.

Sir Ben:

When the shit hits the fan, we'll see. So I did see an interesting report that was showing that the Rubal is becoming the strongest currency,

Sir Gene:

And that's a

Sir Ben:

relative terms in Europe

Sir Gene:

I've yes, I've, I've, I've watched a Russian news report talking about how the whatever the equivalent of the federal reserve in Russia is, you know, the, the guys that, that are tracking all this stuff are very concerned about the fact that the Rubal is so damn strong because they need it to be weaker, to sell better.

Sir Ben:

To

Sir Gene:

It's it's, it's starting to hurt exports.

Sir Ben:

Yep. So, another thing have you noticed a few names coming up lately?

Sir Gene:

You mean like common kids' names or what?

Sir Ben:

No. No, no. Like, names from the nineties. So with queen dying and Charles the third taking the throne,

Sir Gene:

Oh yes. The king. Yeah. Well, I guess that'll take a while for the coordination.

Sir Ben:

Well, he's still technically king at this point, but you remember the DJ in the UK BBC? What was his name?

Sir Gene:

The DJ you mean the, the, the, the guy that has a child molester DJ, or

Sir Ben:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Sir Gene:

Oh yeah. Yeah. What was his name?

Sir Ben:

I'm blanking right now. I

Sir Gene:

I know he was a child molester, so I know who you're talking about, but I, I can't recall his name. What, what what's. Okay. What's the point?

Sir Ben:

well, people are just waking up to this. So this is ILA, Jeffrey Epstein. Charles ties to Jeffrey Epstein are coming back. This DJ that I can't remember the name of, he wanted to be Williams godfather at one point in time, this, this man that I'm now blanking on his name, even though I was about to say it, he he was convicted of 78 different what is it? Sexual molests, including the rape of an eight year old. Oh man, I gotta go to my Google history.

Sir Gene:

Would you like to share your entire go history with us?

Sir Ben:

dude, I wouldn't sure you say Google a main search history. Let me phrase, Jimmy SEL, Jimmy SEL.

Sir Gene:

Jimmy SRO. Yeah.

Sir Ben:

So people are putting out all these memes and it's like, where the fuck have you been? This was brought up by Alex Jones and by everybody in fucking 2000 man, you know, people have to wake

Sir Gene:

Jones should just wear a t-shirt that says Alex Jones was right.

Sir Ben:

He should, he said

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

underneath it should say, give it five years.

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

Anyway, Jimmy SEL, Jimmy SEL is being brought up in being meed and it's gaining traction. And I, I kind of wonder, you know, with the, the queen then finally admitting that the queen is dead. And who the fuck believes that she hung on to put in that last prime minister?

Sir Gene:

I believe it.

Sir Ben:

No,

Sir Gene:

don't know if she's dead right now.

Sir Ben:

no,

Sir Gene:

I think she's just retiring. No, you, you wait, you, you don't, you don't think that the lizard people live for at least 150 years?

Sir Ben:

I, I think she's been dead for a while, but yeah.

Sir Gene:

No, I'm I,

Sir Ben:

So Jean is now David Ike.

Sir Gene:

that I'm really not positive. She's dead.

Sir Ben:

So Jean so you're going the crack pot way now. Okay.

Sir Gene:

I don't see how that's the crack pot way.

Sir Ben:

I, I don't know. I

Sir Gene:

me proof. Show me show me a body. I don't see a body habeas

Sir Ben:

will here in a few days, they're

Sir Gene:

They'll show a plastic mockup. That's not gonna be her. No, she's finally retired from that post. She's probably sitting in Bermuda or someplace enjoying her retirement years. Next 50 or 60 of them.

Sir Ben:

or on the Iowa man,

Sir Gene:

Yeah, there

Sir Ben:

which given this conversation people might understand is significant.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

Uh huh.

Sir Gene:

well, I don't know if that's such a great retirement place, but

Sir Ben:

Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, it's gonna be interesting, but you know, things that were brought up in my circles growing up and things that I've known about for a long time, people are acting like our new revelations and a whole new generation is getting,

Sir Gene:

Well, that's the curse that you have that I have as well is seeing things early on before the majority of the people around have any clue whatsoever. And then they think we're the crazy ones.

Sir Ben:

for a while and then it's like, holy shit. You were right. Yeah.

Sir Gene:

oh yeah. They'll say holy shit. You're right. That COVID thing. Yeah. That's totally government control, but this Ukraine thing, no, that's totally different. Nope. We're we're on the right side of this one. Yeah. Okay.

Sir Ben:

yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's just, I think in so many ways, a few things are coming to fruition that are just such jump the shark moments that,

Sir Gene:

idea that rich people would want to have sex with children should not be a surprise to anybody because what, what does being rich mean? It means you get to break rules. That society sets up without

Sir Ben:

and I, I, I think that a lot of the, the. Pedophilia we see in the periphery around people like Charles in Jimmy salal and Jeffrey Epstein, you know, they are the lower level people who got caught. And I, I think that if you look at, if you wanna go full blown conspiracy theory mode, I think at the very least, even if they are not maps, minor attractive persons, I, I, I think that they are coerced into it as a control point

Sir Gene:

Yeah, I dunno how course they were in. I mean, I, I think either you're into kids or you're not into kids, but I also have a, and I've talked about this before. I also have a problem with Americans just thinking that the American definition of 18 as an adult somehow is universal and should be taken forever. You know, when Epstein had well, again, bill Clinton on his island, what? Three, five times. And when, when bill was screwing,

Sir Ben:

35 times. We don't know how many times he

Sir Gene:

Well, he never got off the plane, just like he didn't inhale. Well, I went there, but I didn't get off the plane.

Sir Ben:

It depends on what your definition of is, is.

Sir Gene:

Is is exactly, but you know, somebody, a rich dude having sex with a 17 year old, I'm sorry, that's not pedophilia. That's a rich dude having sex with a 17 year old,

Sir Ben:

Well, and you know what I would say there is my grandmother

Sir Gene:

year old's already sent in for Christ's sakes.

Sir Ben:

so what I'd say is, you know, my grandmother got married at 16 and started having kids. I think that, you

Sir Gene:

Her husband must have been a pedophile.

Sir Ben:

Yeah, well, no, it was just the south at the time, but

Sir Gene:

got that pedophilia gene in your jeans. Don't you?

Sir Ben:

What I would say is that there there's a line between, and, and, you know, again, the, the line being 18 is a little ridiculous.

Sir Gene:

arbitrary.

Sir Ben:

Well, but you have to have an age of majority and there has to be things tied to that. I don't know that sexual relations necessarily should, but where do you draw that line? Do you draw the line in age difference? So if a 50 year old wants to screw a 20 year old, is that a problem? You

Sir Gene:

Hey now. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. There's no problem at all with that legally or morally, it's the best way for the 20 year old to get a free college education.

Sir Ben:

Screw your student loans,

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

Yeah. Well, you know, again, it's, it's an it's. It's one of those things that there, there has to be a social enforcement and that social enforcement needs to be important. But there has to be a bright line legally where, you know, it's okay or not.

Sir Gene:

That's what being rich allows you to do is to draw your own line.

Sir Ben:

yeah, but again, I, like you said, I, I don't prince Charles or

Sir Gene:

Let's say there's no laws, there's no punishments. You could do whatever you want, be totally hedonistic. And you just ask people on the survey and you said what? Like, just think back through your life. You know, if you're, let's say you're a male, right? So hopefully you can remember back to what you felt like in your thirties, your twenties, your, your teen years at which point in your life did. Did you wanna bang like a 20 year old?

Sir Ben:

okay.

Sir Gene:

Well, gimme an answer. I mean, pretend you pretend it's not the truth, if that helps you sleep better.

Sir Ben:

No, I mean, that I wanted to bang a 20 year old I don't know, since I was 12

Sir Gene:

Exactly you. Okay. 12, 13, right around there for most boys that and those ages could change over time, but at least in my recollection, right. That's when you started having those, those posters up of fair faucet and stuff

Sir Ben:

Yeah,

Sir Gene:

in my day.

Sir Ben:

I definitely had a Jerry or Ryan poster at one point in

Sir Gene:

There you go. There you go. Yeah, that, that would be the equivalent. So, and because at that

Sir Ben:

know was seven of nine

Sir Gene:

star Trek nerd, so I know, I know, I know. Right. And she hated it and,

Sir Ben:

I loved it.

Sir Gene:

Oh yeah, totally, totally. Apparently that well we could talk about star Trek, another episode, but my point is, okay, so you're at 13, you are hot for, you know, 20 year olds in in movies, television, whatever, knowing full well as a, a 12, 13 year old boy, you're never in, in hell ever gonna get to bang one of those, but you'd sure like to, right. So what is wrong then? Legally with a 20 year old saying, yeah, I, I think you're kind of cute too. I'll bang you.

Sir Ben:

Yeah, because there's, I'm not fully developed and I can't make irrational decision on my

Sir Gene:

What is the rational decision that is necessary for sex? It's literally the oldest interaction that we have. as an animal that it all our ancestors have had to be successful at

Sir Ben:

And this is again where that line falls is. Interesting. Now I'd say that parental consent laws come into play here, you know, and yeah, it could be set up for abuse. Lots of things

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

that I, I would agree with you that the majority of the time it's not actual abuse, but the problem is

Sir Gene:

what I, what I think is a problem is any kind of forced sexual relationship at any age. I don't care what age it is.

Sir Ben:

a hundred percent.

Sir Gene:

You know, you, you got a grandma, you know, being forced to have sex with a, a, you know, a 20 year old hunky dude.

Sir Ben:

happen.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Unless she's got a lot of money, but

Sir Ben:

well, then the coercion is on the other

Sir Gene:

but he is a coercion though. It's not really coercion. So, so, but my point is, you know, relationships that have that, that are forced, relationships are not healthy. They're not good and potentially should be illegal, but relationships that are not coerced should have no problem. And then you're like, well, what about these predators? You know, like they know how to give the kid the candy to the kids to entice 'em to have sex. Yeah. There's a problem there. I totally agree that that is absolutely the case. And I, I think that there ought to be protections for the children in those situations, like. But I, I can also tell you much, like you did Ben that, you know, as a healthy heterosexual, 13 year old boy, I, you know, I was getting hired looking at the hot bodies of 20 year olds. Hell yeah. There's nothing that, that,

Sir Ben:

but should society accept? That is the question.

Sir Gene:

why would it not is my question.

Sir Ben:

because it's rife for abuse,

Sir Gene:

So was having a gun let's ban all guns,

Sir Ben:

I think there's a

Sir Gene:

same argument, same argument.

Sir Ben:

we come from, so when you look at the age of consent laws in Europe and so on, they're drastically different than the

Sir Gene:

drastically different. I mean, Vatican used to be no. And then finally they bumped it up to 12,

Sir Ben:

yeah. Irony of ironies. Anyway,

Sir Gene:

that's a city full of full of people not having sex.

Sir Ben:

well, it's a city full of, you know, maps.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm yep.

Sir Ben:

I, I would say at, you know, at least I think we can agree that if someone has not had onset of puberty, that that should be at least a very

Sir Gene:

genuine. Yeah. That's genuine, you know, kid porn kind of territory. That's that's real pedophilia is pre puberty.

Sir Ben:

Well, and one could argue that there could be a overdeveloped 16 year old that is, you know, more developed than a said 22 year old, as far as assets, that would be attractive and so on. But there, there has to be that bright

Sir Gene:

there are 16 year olds, much more mature mentally than 22 year olds.

Sir Ben:

Very few. I mean, you, you you're, you're, you're talking bell curve analysis.

Sir Gene:

one of 'em. Okay. All right.

Sir Ben:

Hey man. You know what? I I've, I've lived an interesting life. I, I'm very thankful for the experiences I've had in my life. And a lot of 'em were before I was 20. And I, I, I can recognize that that's true, but how do you apply bell curve statistics and those questions of variability to the law? I don't think you can. And that that's the problem I see there.

Sir Gene:

yeah. So should we have laws that are essentially trying to address the failures of parenting?

Sir Ben:

Well, you know,

Sir Gene:

I can't convince my 16 year old daughter not to have sex. She just refuses to, Hey, let's put a, let's put a chastity law in place.

Sir Ben:

I, I get you there, but let me ask you this. So how do you write the law to say that what's okay. And what's not because I knew a girl.

Sir Gene:

that I do it. You, you have a contract

Sir Ben:

Okay. Well, I knew a girl in high school. So when we're talking about the puberty

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm.

Sir Ben:

that because she was a athlete and everything else, very low body fat didn't have a period until after she was 17, you know? So I, I just don't know how you write that law, man. That makes any sense

Sir Gene:

You don't, that's my point. You're making my point. These are territories that need to be left to the parents, not the legal system.

Sir Ben:

And I would generally agree that you cannot more, you cannot regulate morality successfully,

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

but I don't know how willing society is or I am for that matter to take that to the nth degree. But that said this current generation just isn't having sex. So, you know, I, I

Sir Gene:

well, that's not strictly true. The, the boys aren't having sex, the girls are still having

Sir Ben:

who knew no, no, no. They are so less interested.

Sir Gene:

Well in the boys, their age, yes.

Sir Ben:

There's a big drop off in general, man.

Sir Gene:

of, of interest in sex with completely feminized males. Yes. That is true

Sir Ben:

there. There's lots of stuff. I mean the actual age of loss of virginity is in is instead of like previous generations declining, this one's actually growing as

Sir Gene:

for males. It's over 20. Now.

Sir Ben:

No, it's not. It's higher than that average age is like 25,

Sir Gene:

over 20 what's higher than over 20 math major.

Sir Ben:

I I'm saying it's not like 20, I'm moving

Sir Gene:

said it's over 20 and you're saying, no, it's not. It's more than that.

Sir Ben:

I mean

Sir Gene:

it's more than over 20

Sir Ben:

a hundred based off of that statement, but the sentiment of your, it is a true statement, but that's like saying, yeah, you know,

Sir Gene:

used to be under 20 back in the day.

Sir Ben:

Yeah, absolutely. But now it's starting to push closer to 30.

Sir Gene:

yeah. So, but again, for males, not for females

Sir Ben:

I think the age average is still moving upwards because yeah, there's, there's some of those

Sir Gene:

is moving up. It is moving up,

Sir Ben:

out, but yeah, it there's just a lot less sex

Sir Gene:

what there's a lot of, a lot more of happening is males are just playing video games instead of having sex. They're just not having sex. Girls are playing some video games, but not as much, but what they are doing a lot more of is engaging in same sex relationships and engaging in relationships with much older men who both have the money and the testosterone in them to be able to be interested in these girls.

Sir Ben:

Well, and you know, one of the things you're seeing in boys is, and you could track it up to stra or anything, but I see it in, you know, kids that I'm around is just a dramatic, dramatic difference in attitude from when I was a kid,

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

know, whether it's getting your driver's license

Sir Gene:

Well, half of 'em are drugged out

Sir Ben:

well, even those that aren't

Sir Gene:

by their parents.

Sir Ben:

even those that aren't because I can think of several specific examples that obviously I'm not gonna dogs here, but. You know, will go do activities with their friends and things like that. But aren't really interested in

Sir Gene:

freedom

Sir Ben:

or

Sir Gene:

or freedom.

Sir Ben:

Or or girls just,

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

nah, not worth it, you know, that not worth it. Thing comes into play a lot these days, which is a very interesting pattern of thought to

Sir Gene:

now I, I love video games, you know, I'm a definitely a gamer, but I will say, I think that is a an out cropping, a end result of a video game type mentality, because it, video games teach you a lot of things. Some of 'em, you know, are positive. Some of 'em are not so positive. One of the things that's not positive is they teach you that that you can always, you know, after you die, you can always respond

Sir Ben:

You can do it differently

Sir Gene:

the complete fear of of the one time in your dead mentality that I had as a kid is gone for most of these kids, cuz they think everything's a respond. And it's not in real life. You, you don't get to respond in real life. That's a negative effect coming from video games. But one of the other ones, like you mentioned is this idea that it, it really teaches people to start calculating the risk reward scenarios on every single action they do. And then if you gotta be honest about it, if you do the math on that, is it worth it to pursue a particular girl to the point of having sex with her? The math often says no, it's not

Sir Ben:

Well, and the history has been that the majority of males throughout history have not been successful at reproduction. The vast majority it's been the top 20, 25% that are successful from a evolutionary standpoint and the top 30 that actually even do so significantly less than half of all male males throughout history, reproduced.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. And so maybe we're just seeing the, the normalcy that was to some extent broken during the aftermath of world war II, where a lot of males died and then, you know, there weren't many to go around and women wanted to make sure that they grabbed the man while they were still one available that were going back to a point which historically has existed where the majority of males never reproduce.

Sir Ben:

I hadn't considered it in that term that the death toll from war, not just war II, but war I war II back to back produced successive generations, where there were a lot fewer males. That is an interesting point.

Sir Gene:

It made competition be a lot more strong for the females. Not, or for the males I should say by the females.

Sir Ben:

Right? Which, and,

Sir Gene:

which has historically not been the case.

Sir Ben:

to be

Sir Gene:

women

Sir Ben:

to be clear human reproduction is inherently a female decision. It, it is the females choosing the males, not the other way around

Sir Gene:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Always, always has been. It's not true for every species, but in humans it is for sure.

Sir Ben:

well, and you could, Peterson makes this argument that you could say that the patriarchy or any competence hierarchy is a outgrowth of female selection and an outsourcing of that

Sir Gene:

It that's absolutely true because for a hierarchy to exist, there has to be people that follow those rules and the females are the ones that get to either follow or not follow those rules. And they absolutely do the females place. Males in these hierarchical categories. It's not the males themselves, males themselves. Mostly don't give a shit. I mean, I've sat and had chats and drinks with B literally billionaires and I've had the, the same. Fun type conversations with guys that live in the street that don't have a home.

Sir Ben:

Hm.

Sir Gene:

literally for most guys, your quote unquote social status, doesn't matter. The only reason most guys live in big houses is because that's what the wife wants in order to appear like their lifestyle is successful. Most guys wear fancy clothes for the exact same reason. You know, cars may be one area where, you know, but also there are plenty of guys making 40, 50 grand a year that are really into their cars and have some amazing cars versus guys making 200, 300,000 a year and just don't give a shit and just drive a Ford pickup truck.

Sir Ben:

gee, thanks gene.

Sir Gene:

What do well, I was referring to somebody else that we both know, but okay.

Sir Ben:

that? We both know. Okay.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm but anyway, the point is that women,

Sir Ben:

small social circle.

Sir Gene:

that people we both know. Okay, well maybe, yeah. I don't think you've ever met him, but you certainly know of him, but either way there are, there are plenty of guys that spend the money that they do. Completely based on the fact that this is what they either think, or this is what they've been told that they need to do to make their woman happy.

Sir Ben:

Mm, well, and you know, you have that entire saying of happy

Sir Gene:

women, there would be no wars guaranteed.

Sir Ben:

I don't know about that

Sir Gene:

Oh, absolutely. Women have been the cause of every, every war that's ever happened.

Sir Ben:

well, we know of at least one woman in history that was directly the cause of war. Yes, absolutely. The face that lost launched a thousand ships.

Sir Gene:

yeah,

Sir Ben:

Yeah. So before we get labeled this week in misogyny

Sir Gene:

that's a great show title, this miso.

Sir Ben:

Yeah.

Sir Gene:

So we went from pedophilia to misogyny. Is that what we did?

Sir Ben:

you pretty much. Yeah.

Sir Gene:

All right.

Sir Ben:

Oh man. You know, it's interesting. I was talking to a, a, a friend of mine and PhD and everything else. And,

Sir Gene:

Does he drive truck

Sir Ben:

She, and she you know, very handy, wants to do stuff and her father-in-law just laughs at it and thinks it's ridiculous. And I'm like, oh, you know, I

Sir Gene:

she wants to do stuff. Like what kind of stuff does she want to

Sir Ben:

like go fix the dishwasher, take the tools and go fix it. She's the handy

Sir Gene:

yeah. Girls ought to do that kinda stuff. My favorite character absolutely favorite character in the TV show. Big love, which was a great TV show. If anybody hadn't seen it bill Pullman is that the guy's name was in it. But my favorite character was the Chloe SOGE was the actress who played the character, the, the middle wife, because she was always the one doing all the handy work. Like she was the one climbing the roof to fix some tiles that, that were broken. She was the one fixing the replacing the, the dishwasher, you know, like she she was definitely the Jack of all trades wife

Sir Ben:

well, I think there are some men who dream of that type of

Sir Gene:

I would love for my, yeah, like me right here, hand going up. I always enjoyed when, so, okay. Here's the thing I had to get past my, my security in myself to be able to do that because while there are certain, I think genetic genetically motivated aspects to being a male that makes you want to be the provider makes you want to do things that will make your wife go, oh, thanks for doing that.

Sir Ben:

and the protector and all that.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. All that. And I definitely experienced that. And then, and then I, you know, was married for enough years to go. Yeah, that's fine. You can fix it. and That I, when I watched a TV show, I'm like, oh, he's got the perfect life. He's got three wives. And each one specializes in a different thing. This is ideal. This is, this is really what we ought to have. And we will probably have, because, you know, with the the, the results of the mRNA vaccines, sterilizing people, I think we're gonna end up in the situation where once again, we have a constriction based on human factors that limits the population growth. So we may very well get to that point.

Sir Ben:

You know, I had a thought the other day. So before I give my thought, you thinking that having three wives would be paradise, isn't saying to me, I think one is more than enough,

Sir Gene:

that's, you're thinking of it wrong. You're thinking from a satisfying her perspective.

Sir Ben:

Uhhuh.

Sir Gene:

I'm thinking of it from a completely istic hedonistic satisfying me perspective.

Sir Ben:

Until they all sync up. Anyway. So with the mRNA shot and you look at liberals and they're just insanity, you know, if you read Margaret app woods, the hand Maiden's tale that shot could have been the impetus.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

And, you know, it kind of makes me wonder if there is not this sick element to, to the people who often prescribe, you know, it's what you say about yourself is what you say about me is what you say about yourself,

Sir Gene:

What is it? The handoff guilt of, I don't know what the fuck it

Sir Ben:

Yeah. I don't know the Dutch, but the, the, the point is the, the left. I won't call 'em liberals cuz you and I are actually real liberals. But

Sir Gene:

that's true. We are true classical liberals here.

Sir Ben:

the, the there's this group of people who want to project onto Christians and onto the real liberals in the world, this dominance dominant submission and quite frankly, masochistic worldview that I don't think we really have to an extent. I know you and I both have our own personal tendencies, but that's neither here nor there, but I'm talking about from a societal standpoint and I don't know, man, a lot of the issues with that RNA shot it. It it's just interesting. Cuz when you read the novel, it's an interesting parallel.

Sir Gene:

so I've never read the novel. I, I thoroughly enjoyed the first movie. Cuz they had a hot actress in this. No, the first movie.

Sir Ben:

What was the first movie?

Sir Gene:

Have you never seen the movie in a handmaid tale?

Sir Ben:

No.

Sir Gene:

No, it's really good. It has a hot actress in it.

Sir Ben:

Okay,

Sir Gene:

so first of all, the phrase is yeah, I'm not gonna pronounce it. It has way too many letters next to each other that I'm not sure how to pronounce what he, Zach Benzel met Yor de health,

Sir Ben:

close

Sir Gene:

it? Yeah. What you said about yourself with your head in health? So I Googled that and it came up with, what is the Dutch phrase? Adam frequently refers to That was literally the first Google

Sir Ben:

you go.

Sir Gene:

thing. No, the movie I think it came out probably late nineties.

Sir Ben:

Okay.

Sir Gene:

And it had Natasha Hendrickson that who's hot or at least back in the nineties, she was, oh, holy shit. Came out in 1990. Wow. So it wasn't even in the late nineties, it was the literally 1990.

Sir Ben:

Hmm.

Sir Gene:

So yeah, I I thought that was pretty good flick. I did not see the TV show partly because I don't really like the actress that that's in the main role. I just think she's super ugly and

Sir Ben:

I mean, she she's like a CA Cortez she's next door, you

Sir Gene:

No, it's just way ugly. Are you kidding? Don't be comparing her to AOC AOC fucking high compared to her

Sir Ben:

You have

Sir Gene:

dude. This

Sir Ben:

we know Gene's type

Sir Gene:

like she literally looks like the prototypical witch from the 17 hundreds. She's got a completely asymmetric face with a small mouth, small chin and the bulging eyes and the big crooked nose. I mean, I'm sorry. I don't see how you can compare that to the beauty of AOC. Who's in the cover of Esquire magazine.

Sir Ben:

oh my God. Cuz I just don't I don't get it. I don't find, I mean, head down. Sure.

Sir Gene:

You just don't like the big booty Latina.

Sir Ben:

no, like I said, head down. I'm good with it's just, I don't think AOC is a very good looking in my personal

Sir Gene:

I think she's adorable dumb of the box nails, but she's adorable.

Sir Ben:

she is definitely I don't know that she's actually dumb. I think she's just very ill educated.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Like

Sir Ben:

won't, I won't. You you think so?

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

I mean you think sub 90 IQ?

Sir Gene:

think she is. No, no, no. She's got a decent IQ, but she's just dumb. Dumb doesn't mean stupid. Stupid is stupid. Dumb is just dumb.

Sir Ben:

Like I said, ill

Sir Gene:

I think she is exact, like, if she wasn't doing this, if she wasn't like the most important political person of the 22nd secondary she would probably be an actress in Hollywood. She'd be playing all the barista roles, the, the friend roles,

Sir Ben:

you think she'd be the next JLo?

Sir Gene:

She'd well, it early JLo, she like before JLo, all of a sudden somebody decided needed to get brought up into being the, the star of the movie.

Sir Ben:

Mm-hmm

Sir Gene:

Um, I think she looks better than JLo honestly could be just cuz she's younger. But I do think that she looks better than JLo. Well, she's not that young either. She's 30 now. Right?

Sir Ben:

She's 30 something.

Sir Gene:

I think she's, I thought I was 30.

Sir Ben:

Keep talking. that hole.

Sir Gene:

I don't know how that's a whole, I don't, I don't understand how saying that somebody's a beautiful woman. She's 32. How saying that somehow is bad.

Sir Ben:

I just, I don't, I, I just don't find

Sir Gene:

Did you not watch that video that she made the music video in college? That super cute.

Sir Ben:

I'm gonna send you a picture of exactly why I don't think she's attractive,

Sir Gene:

Okay. So you're probably gonna send me a picture that a a person shot shooting 20 frames per second, super fast, and catching her with a weird mouth open thing or something. Yeah. That's you can get that picture of literally anybody. I probably can get that picture of you very easily. It's it's not hard to do. And when people are in the public eye and they're constantly photographed,

Sir Ben:

Yeah, but I wouldn't say I'm a good looking guy, so, you know, there's that

Sir Gene:

Well, not compared to AAC or not. She's a much better looking guy than you

Sir Ben:

I completely agree.

Sir Gene:

no. And you know, I don't know. I've, I've always liked chicks with thighs.

Sir Ben:

yeah, I, I, the over plucked look is not a thing for

Sir Gene:

I hate it when they completely go bald in the eyebrow department, it's like, look, there's a place for you to shave and an eight, your eyebrows

Sir Ben:

Well, and not saying we want you to have a uni brow, but you know,

Sir Gene:

Well, no, that's a whole

Sir Ben:

uni brow uni brow does not look good on anyone, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sir Gene:

uni brow that I've seen was when what's that actress's name? Oh, goddamn Hayek

Sir Ben:

Selma Hayek.

Sir Gene:

Selma Hayek. Played what was that movie where she played the chick with a UN bro?

Sir Ben:

I have no idea.

Sir Gene:

Oh, you kidding me? It was God, I can't believe I'm like completely zing. Oh Frida, Frida collo. So Fria collo had a total UN bro brow and, but Selma Hayek is sexy. So you can you can buy those two.

Sir Ben:

Okay.

Sir Gene:

Do you know who Fria colo was?

Sir Ben:

no clue at all.

Sir Gene:

Oh, she was a famous Mexican artist.

Sir Ben:

No.

Sir Gene:

Yeah.

Sir Ben:

Seems irrelevant.

Sir Gene:

Oh, she said she, you said uni brow. So I had to mention a chick with a uni bro.

Sir Ben:

You know, but it, you say a Mexican artist that I would never have heard of in my life, but if I

Sir Gene:

Most people

Sir Ben:

say ALCU,

Sir Gene:

most people that listen to public radio know who she is.

Sir Ben:

okay. So if I sit here and say, ALCU, do you know who that is?

Sir Gene:

It's a cigar brand.

Sir Ben:

No, it's a Mexican physicist, but anyway.

Sir Gene:

It's literally a cigar brand.

Sir Ben:

Okay. Well, his family also does that then. I don't know, but ALCU is a Mexican physicist that, you know, posited

Sir Gene:

Yeah. It's ACU layer drive works. Yeah, exactly. I know that

Sir Ben:

Okay. Anyway so

Sir Gene:

ball. Goddammit. I know all about flying in space.

Sir Ben:

so, on back to guns, but in the personal realm, I finally got an optic on my pistol.

Sir Gene:

Oh, I bought a new gun, but go ahead. Talk about yours first.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. So I ended up going with the CI Romeo one. And before anyone tells me how horrible of a mistake I made one, the slide

Sir Gene:

a mistake? That's not a mistake. That's the isn't that the one that comes with it or the one's supposed to be put on there by from the factory.

Sir Ben:

yeah. Now the us army went with the Leopold, but the problem I have with Leopold is the battery life. You know, when you're giving me less than a year battery life for something that I wanna rely on, that's just not okay. So the battery life for the CI Romeo, one pro that I've got is around 20,000 hours. So if I change the battery every two years, I know it's gonna be ready into work. And I looked at the hoons. I looked at, I looked at Tricon, I looked at all of 'em and the problem I had with all the rest was a, I'd have to put an adapter plate and getting hide overboard, even higher, which just didn't line up with what, the way I shooted. So that wasn't an option. So it was really between the Leopold and the SIG and the battery life was the defining factor. So, yeah, anyway, but I do optics on pistols is a huge thing, especially for something you're gonna.

Sir Gene:

they're very common these days. I, I was shocked at how quickly that became a normal thing.

Sir Ben:

But it's super, super useful. And if you don't believe me, go to a gun store, pick up a gun without one, and then pick up a gun with one and it will blow your mind. I'm not a super great pistol shot by any stretch, but I'm decent, but the ease at which you can be very accurate with that sort of red dot and a pistol, especially at pistol distances is just awesome. It's fantastic.

Sir Gene:

Yeah.

Sir Ben:

I also went with the I also went with the six MOA site versus the three. And my rationale there is, you know, I I'm, I don't wanna be futzing with brightness regardless of where what sort of situation I'm in. So, you know, the, the problem with a three moa.in bright sunlight is if you don't have it, the brightness turned up pretty good. It's gonna be hard to acquire. So anyway, that was the thought process behind it, but I'm pretty damn happy with the results. So,

Sir Gene:

good. I, well, I don't know why you would think that I wouldn't be, or I would at all be negative on this.

Sir Ben:

no, I, I just know some people just hates optics, but you know, it's.

Sir Gene:

I've got Sy. I, I like them. I like that. SIG is even though they're made in China, they're still give you a good lifetime warranty on them.

Sir Ben:

Well, and you know, several brands are doing that. Vortex is doing that, which vortex has come a long

Sir Gene:

didn't know. They had a lifetime. They have a lifetime.

Sir Ben:

Yep. Vortex is a lifetime warranty now. And you know, the first generation of vortex optics, I've talked about this before were trash. I couldn't stand them. The eye relief sucked. My current vortex that I do have on a gun, the one complaint I have about it is the iBox on that scope is not great. And that is a huge departure from like a Leopold or something else. But it's also two grand, less than I would spend on Leopold. And it has a decent warranty and fantastic class otherwise.

Sir Gene:

Hm. Yeah. Leap. Hold's not cheap.

Sir Ben:

no, but I mean, Chipman growing up, I had a three three by nine Leopold on my 30, 30. Right. It was

Sir Gene:

Well, they used to be cheaper.

Sir Ben:

right. But it was also the defacto brand, my dad and grandpa, and everybody went to. Right.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

yeah.

Sir Gene:

I'd say it's probably the best American brand out there.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. And, and, you know, Leopold has done nothing, but get better. And Leopold and Burris in the 1990s were pretty neck and neck, but now Burris has just fallen off to, you know, nothing.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. And I, I think leap hold's gotten beyond Nikon quality.

Sir Ben:

Oh, Leopold's up there with Ze. Leopold is absolutely up there with

Sir Gene:

Well, I don't know about that, but well, I don't know that I would trust you with that then if that's what, you know, cause Ze, Ze quality glass is just, there's nothing else. Like it

Sir Ben:

Schmidt and bender. And I mean, I've, I've shot a lot of guns with a lot of scopes. And what I would say is Zeis actually since their conquest line and everything else has come down a lot and Leopold has gone up a lot. And I, and here here's the other thing, as far as feature sets,

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

let's take glass out of the equation. They're all pretty damn equal, right? It really

Sir Gene:

I think a few brands have, in fact, I think Nikon has a little more,

Sir Ben:

Well, Nikon's no longer making scopes.

Sir Gene:

yeah, but, well, okay, fine. But they had a little more options in their scopes than some of the other

Sir Ben:

when Nikon was making scopes in the early two thousands, the fact that they did not become the Def, I mean, they were inexpensive compared to, you know, Zeis or something like that. And they were awesome. I still have a couple Nikon scopes. I've got first focal plane and second focal plane, Nikon scopes, and

Sir Gene:

well, hold on to those. They'll be going up in, in the price,

Sir Ben:

why?

Sir Gene:

cuz they're not making 'em anymore.

Sir Ben:

Right. But that I think people have moved on to other brands.

Sir Gene:

Eh, I don't know.

Sir Ben:

Anyway, but they're fantastic quality scopes. They were absolutely fantastic.

Sir Gene:

Yeah.

Sir Ben:

their Monarch and FX lines. Jesus, those are great scopes.

Sir Gene:

I think I still have a couple of those. A couple of monarchs. But I don't see anything wrong with using the SIG stuff. I don't think the SIG quality is quite as high, but they're, they're having the lifetime. No questions asked warranty is good because you know that I don't, like I don't even have that on my Tricon stuff.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. Now, to be clear on the electronic optics, like what I just got it is a lifetime warranty for everything, but the electronics. So the

Sir Gene:

it's the same thing. That's the same thing. And the, I thought that was better than that.

Sir Ben:

No. So the glass and the housing and all that is under lifetime, but the electronics is only five year. It's still a five

Sir Gene:

literally the same thing as, Tricon then cuz that's and no Tricon is seven years. And then lifetime and the glass and, and the physical,

Sir Ben:

Right. But there's

Sir Gene:

I, I think is stupid. It ought to be lifetime forever for the price you pay for a Tricon. It is crazy for them not to give you a lifetime warranty across the board.

Sir Ben:

they're definitely taking a premium on that brand. Absolutely.

Sir Gene:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think I mentioned this in the previous episode and I still haven't sent them in cuz I don't wanna pay the money right now, but like I, I need to get the treating replaced on two of my eight cogs and it's gonna cost 700 bucks

Sir Ben:

Yeah. The previous episode that will actually

Sir Gene:

a replacement.

Sir Ben:

and the new, the timeline's gonna get real screwy here, folks.

Sir Gene:

That's right. This is, this is not the new show. This is still the old show. So, but it's yeah, the prices are, so now I'm gonna be in the dilemma as to which site to get on, on my new gun as well.

Sir Ben:

So what did you

Sir Gene:

So, so, well, I actually get a couple guns, but one I got one handgun and one rifle.

Sir Ben:

Did you get the Adidas gun I sent you

Sir Gene:

I love that gun, man. I, I want that gun. I'm afraid that that would be a custom job to make, unfortunately, but that would be a super cool gun too.

Sir Ben:

I sent Jean a meme off of no, into social. It was an Adidas tracksuit themed gun, and then beneath it, it has heavy SL breathing

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

anyway. Yeah. Made me

Sir Gene:

is an awesome no, I totally want that. That would be an awesome, awesome thing to have.

Sir Ben:

the way. Yeah.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. In AK 47 with white furniture, with the Adidas logo on the, but stock,

Sir Ben:

Yeah.

Sir Gene:

you can't get better than that. That's like the rolls Royce again. Mm-hmm the only, the only other thing you could do is

Sir Ben:

A golden that plated desert Eagle

Sir Gene:

If you no, no, no. If you did like the barrel in, in gold, that would be the only thing that would make it.

Sir Ben:

well, the, the barrel are the are the the furniture that wraps around the Woodstock to hold it on. Kinda like a gold chain, you know, something like that.

Sir Gene:

chain, no

Sir Ben:

the best edition

Sir Gene:

gold and white is really the best combination of anything, any colors. That's an empirical fact everybody's studied. This knows this. It's just true. And it's just pure coincidence that my first card and every car I've had after that has been golden weight.

Sir Ben:

anyway. So what did you get?

Sir Gene:

Anyway. Well, I got a I got an iwi Masada, which is a a

Sir Ben:

You actually have it in your possession now.

Sir Gene:

I do not know it's still in shipping, so I've ordered it. I haven't gotten it which gives me some time to think about the optic, but that gun much like every freaking gun is precut. And so it's, it's precut for optics and it comes with four different plates. So you could put anything you want in there

Sir Ben:

cool. What do you know what it's natively precut for though? Without the plate?

Sir Gene:

I do not, no.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. So, and to be clear, this is a nitpick I'm very specific that hide over boar. That 16th of an inch matters for me. It probably doesn't for most people.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

I'm just, if you've been shooting a long time and you've been shooting you, you've trained yourself. It just, you know, you know what I'm talking about.

Sir Gene:

I know, I know what you're talking about. It's it's that portion of your memory that's in your hands and not your eyeballs.

Sir Ben:

Exactly. And I it's some definitely something I could get used to, but it,

Sir Gene:

It would take you more shot. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you're basically, you're having to override your hands through what you see with your eyes now.

Sir Ben:

yeah. It, it,

Sir Gene:

Cuz they used to match now they're not matching. Yep. That is true.

Sir Ben:

The Masada.

Sir Gene:

yeah, so, and I I'm, I'm kind of leaning towards getting a SIG as well. Because I got a few other SIG sites I liked, I liked the, the brand warranties and stuff. Although I didn't realize the, the lifetime didn't apply to electronics, but oh well, but part of me is still kind of trying to find my old my old yeah. Trican thank you. I just blanked it out. My old Tricon I have a Tricon gun site somewhere and this was one they don't make anymore because this used TRID.

Sir Ben:

Hmm.

Sir Gene:

All their new ones are purely electronic

Sir Ben:

So Jean, on that, if you do go to purchase a new site, look at the holo suns because they've got some solar options that are pretty cool that, you know, if there's enough ambient light, even with a dead battery, it will come on and work. And then the, the current Tricon, the RMR type two has decent enough battery life. And that would be a good option.

Sir Gene:

Well, and the, the one advantage of the Tricon is it's it's actually, you can get, they have a variant, which is much like mine, but mine was Tridium and fiber optic. They have a electronic and fiber optic combo as well now, so that that's another option from a practical standpoint, given that these things have like 20 to 50,000 hour lives, it's questionable. Whether anything even matters. Because even Tridium is not, I mean, it's on all the time and it's there, but every 12 to 15 years, I have to pay a bunch of money to get my Tridium replaced.

Sir Ben:

Well, and here, here's the thing. These batteries that you're using have 10 plus year shelf lives. So you could even have a stock pile of batteries for the, you know, five batteries will get you through that 10 years. And that's assuming that you're using it enough because the auto off features that they have for these. And they're so good. I, I mean, I've played with it where picking it up, touching it, bumping at anything it's on way quicker than you're gonna go from your hip to your eye. And by the way, if you're moving, it's gonna be on anyway. So it's fantastic, man. It really is.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, no, that's there's a lot of options. Let's put it that way. I like the way the hoons look, I don't like that. It's a Chinese company

Sir Ben:

I, I

Sir Gene:

I don't, I don't, I mean, a lot of companies manufacture in China or at least use Chinese parts, but actually owned by China. So

Sir Ben:

I, I, and that, that was my problem with it. And my hesitation was Chinese young, but what every gun store guy and buddy that I have and have talked to said, it's still a good optic. It's rugged enough. It handles everything

Sir Gene:

might be here's. My concern is when the war with China breaks out, then that goes away. It'll either get banned in the us side or it'll get banned from China exports one or the other, and same with support, same with parts, same with everything else.

Sir Ben:

Yeah, but it's half the cost of the SIG and Leopold and Tricon

Sir Gene:

half the cost of sick it's it is half the cost of Leopold and the Tricon, but cigs are a little cheaper.

Sir Ben:

okay. It's three quarters, the cost, whatever, it's, it's significantly less it's over a hundred dollars less.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Sir Ben:

Yeah.

Sir Gene:

And they, and they have way more options. Like if SIG made the same exact models as Callon does, it would be a no brainer. They would be leading the market.

Sir Ben:

well. And I think the only reason why Hollon isn't is a, the Hollon glass there, you can tell the difference in the glass. SIG has fairly decent glass. It's not the same as Leopold, but it's decent enough. The Hollon, when I held it up a I saw quite a bit of refraction to me. That was one of the things I didn't like about it now in sub 50 yard engagements. That's not really gonna matter as much. So for this type of Okta,

Sir Gene:

every professional shooter, meaning somebody does a show on YouTube has brought that issue up above Hallon

Sir Ben:

yeah,

Sir Gene:

it's that, that their glass doesn't have the right coatings on it.

Sir Ben:

Well, it, it's just the, the, it's just a slight blur to my eye

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

I find distracting. Now in a real world scenario, would it really matter? Probably not, but

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. CIG is, is good enough and cheap enough,

Sir Ben:

Mm,

Sir Gene:

I think for, for most things, look you're. If you're moving off iron sites, the way that I am anything's better.

Sir Ben:

well, and that, that, that actually is another thing that I liked about the Romeo one pro is because it does have a essentially a backup iron rear iron site built into it that you can utilize.

Sir Gene:

I think even the zero has that.

Sir Ben:

yeah, they, it's a feature that they've had,

Sir Gene:

Now the zero is a little slimmer too, but you

Sir Ben:

zeros also plastic.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. You didn't like the plastic. Okay. Got it. Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

And the zero is way

Sir Gene:

but, but you know, so's my air 15, it's also plastic.

Sir Ben:

I don't know what parts of your AR 15 are plastic,

Sir Gene:

The entire thing, the whole thing,

Sir Ben:

Uhhuh,

Sir Gene:

plastic gun,

Sir Ben:

Uhhuh.

Sir Gene:

my Glock is also plastic.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. This is thin are plastic than, you know, lots of things and your Barrel's not, and yeah,

Sir Gene:

no, it's not a, the bare, but, but honestly I just took apart. My, my old, my old air, 15 style gun took it apart, took a look at it and I was just blown away at how simple it is and everything is plastic. And when I say plastic, I don't mean plastic. I'm just trying to be facetious. What I mean is polycarbonate

Sir Ben:

Like a polymer lower and stuff like that, but your uppers gonna be not.

Sir Gene:

no, it is absolutely plastic. The whole gun is plastic, the upper and

Sir Ben:

calling your hand guard maybe, but other than that, I'm

Sir Gene:

Nope. This whole gun is made of carbon it's it's carbon. It's not, it's not carbon fiber. It's carbonized plastic. It's basically plexiglass or not plexiglass, but it's what do you call that? I'll send you a picture. I, I mean, I, I don't mind taking that part there. The upper and lower are both plastic.

Sir Ben:

Mm-hmm

Sir Gene:

The only metal parts in it are the bolt, the trigger mechanism and the barrel. Everything else was plastic.

Sir Ben:

I mean, I guess you could have a plastic upper, but who, I don't know that I, I, that would be a wear item from hell

Sir Gene:

no, it's an awesome gun.

Sir Ben:

I mean your chamber and everything that's containing the pressures is in the barrel.

Sir Gene:

Yep.

Sir Ben:

but okay. I don't know. I, I guess someone may have done that, but I, I surely would rather have a aluminum.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Well, but this thing only weighs like a pound. It's awesome.

Sir Ben:

You and your ultra light stuff, man.

Sir Gene:

And this, this the, well, I don't know if it's even true anymore, but when I bought it, which would've been about 1996 it is the lightest air 15 ever manufactured.

Sir Ben:

Hmm.

Sir Gene:

It's obviously more than the pound. I think it's about four pounds, but it is easily a pound lighter than the lightest aluminum ones I've seen. and there the, but no parts are interchangeable. Everything is custom. So custom, lower custom, upper custom everything.

Sir Ben:

so it's a AR a AR tens a few years ago and stuff like that. Do you know who manufactured it?

Sir Gene:

Yeah. As a company, it doesn't exist anymore. It was called what was it called? Something ordinance,

Sir Ben:

Huh? So there are a couple companies that are doing something similar today looks like so, okay. Interesting.

Sir Gene:

It's of carbon 15 is the gun. And it was made by so Bushmaster bought the company that actually made it and then kept the name for a much less plastic version of the gun, but oh, professional ordinance. That's what it was. It was made by a company called professional ordinance.

Sir Ben:

where everything goes to die.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, exactly. And I have like serial number 150.

Sir Ben:

Nice. That's a collectible gun.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. So that's probably why I'm gonna try and sell it as a collectible gun

Sir Ben:

Hmm.

Sir Gene:

rather, cuz it's not, I mean, it's not worth selling as a normal gun, but as a collector collector's item,

Sir Ben:

so it's

Sir Gene:

probably worth a few bucks.

Sir Ben:

because I didn't realize this, but a buddy of mine who has an AR pistol has the push master carbon 15 type AR pistol looking at the photos. It's definitely the same thing.

Sir Gene:

yeah. That's not what mine looks like. Mine looks completely different than that. But what you do see in that photo is the upper and lower that's the Bush master version, but both the upper and lower is still plastic on that one. Mine gun doesn't doesn't have a that what's that button on the right side for your, the manual pushing the, the load thing. The

Sir Ben:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The, the slide release.

Sir Gene:

No, not the slide release. You need that? No, no. The button on the right side, the thumb button, like if you're, if you are trying to force the round into your barrel

Sir Ben:

Oh, the forward. Yeah. Yeah.

Sir Gene:

for assist,

Sir Ben:

not a, not a, yeah, it's not a thumb button. It's

Sir Gene:

completely unnecessary part in a well made gun. You don't need that, so it should not exist. So my gun doesn't have that, for example.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. And, and lots of people have argued that it was part of the original stoner design, but you know what I would say there is, so was a, a non Chrome lined barrel. And if you had a non Chrome lined barrel a lot Vietnam, when the first was released, yeah. There was a, there was a use case in a modern gun. I, I tend to agree with you there. I can, I have never used the forward assist on my

Sir Gene:

No nobody's ever used one. You don't need it. None of my AR 15 style guns have a forwarder system. It's just not necessary

Sir Ben:

I'll tell you where I know a buddy who hunts with an AR 15 has used it

Sir Gene:

where

Sir Ben:

when he is walking to whatever stand he's going to. And he wants to put around in the chamber, but doesn't wanna allow the bolt to just go home. So he pulls back and slides and lets the bolt ish

Sir Gene:

you have a friend that misuses it.

Sir Ben:

and then uses the forward assist to get the bolt to lock.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. That's a misuse of it.

Sir Ben:

I, but it's a quieter way of doing it. So for the purpose of hunting and not making a lot of noise and

Sir Gene:

Why would you not just chamber beforehand?

Sir Ben:

that's what I do. I'm just, he didn't wanna walk in with one in the chamber. I don't know why

Sir Gene:

That is nuts. The other thing that's not necessary is a safety. I don't understand why people put those on there.

Sir Ben:

totally disagree with you.

Sir Gene:

Why is that?

Sir Ben:

I like a safety.

Sir Gene:

Never understood it. Don't like, 'em, they're

Sir Ben:

Especially on a long

Sir Gene:

only one safety you need and that one's on your hand. It never leaves your

Sir Ben:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So on a pistol, that's in a holster with a good trigger guard. I can kind of agree with you there. I personally grew up with safeties and that's just part of that mechanics. It's like having the optic on a plate higher, I can get used to it, whatever. But you know, what I would say is without a good trigger cover definitely on a long gun, walking through the woods, things like that, where your trigger is essentially uncovered because you know, your trigger finger should never be inside your trigger guard unless you're getting ready to pull the trigger. So, okay. So brush things like that the mechanism by which the way the AR 15 trigger works, for example I, the, the another great example would be the Remington 700 platform having, you know, slam fire stuff. Yeah. I, I think there's a cause for mechanical safeties. Now, if weapons were designed like modern trucker fire pistols, which, oh, by the way, even some of them when they've been dropped have had lawsuits on them going off when they shouldn't have, so I, a mechanical safety just it's added insurance. That's not a bad thing to me.

Sir Gene:

Well, and, and I would say like on the Remington 700, I, I could see putting a safety in there just because the trigger travel is so small and the, the, if you have a good trigger, the amount of pressure is so small. Like that actually is makes sense. But when you're talking about a military style, six pound trigger

Sir Ben:

Yeah, but when you're talking about a two and a half pound trigger with no uptake, no slop you

Sir Gene:

that's literally what I just.

Sir Ben:

yeah.

Sir Gene:

Yeah.

Sir Ben:

But even on an AR 15, if you've got a decent drop in replacement trigger, you're still talking no, take up no slop and you know, maybe four pounds. So, mm.

Sir Gene:

yeah, well, anyway, so, I mean the, the good thing about safety is there's no, it's not a problem to have one, right. Because if you don't want to use it, you just don't use it.

Sir Ben:

Yeah.

Sir Gene:

Like it's better to have for a gun to have a safety and then not use it. If you don't want to use it, then forget to not have one when you want to use it.

Sir Ben:

Well, literally part of the reason why I bought the M 17 was I wanted a full size gun. That's why I didn't get the 18, but it was the SIG P three 20 that I liked the design of. I liked a lot of the internal flexibility of the gun and it had a external safety and a lot of modern struck fire pistols. These days it's getting harder and harder to find.

Sir Gene:

Yep. Yep. Nope. That is true. So what were we talking about? We're talking about the plastic rifle. What else? Oh yeah. So if anybody wants to buy a collectors in 'em let me know.

Sir Ben:

so, what other gun did

Sir Gene:

shot it

Sir Ben:

you got a

Sir Gene:

a decade more than a decade. Oh. I also wanna sell a Mossberg nine 30. That's never been shot. That was like a backup sitting in the back of the safe kinda gun.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. And that's a tactical version of it, correct?

Sir Gene:

That's the tactical with the BI on top with the full length tube. It's not the pistol grip version. It's the regular version. I've never particularly been a fan of pistol grip shotguns. I don't know why it just like, I'm comfortable with a pistol grip rifle, but a shotgun with a pistol grip just doesn't feel right. I dunno why

Sir Ben:

I, you know, and I also

Sir Gene:

used to, I guess

Sir Ben:

I long barreled shotguns are a thing for me. Right. You know, 20 plus inch barrels is always where I wanna be on a

Sir Gene:

32, man. Absolutely.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. You know, yeah. You know, E E even for a home defense, the 18 and a half inch barrel just feels weird to me that just always has.

Sir Gene:

it it's, it's a little on the shorty side. That's for sure. So I, I mentioned that I got the the 40 caliber folding

Sir Ben:

Mm-hmm

Sir Gene:

last time on the last show. So the other gun that I just got that I physically also got now is a SIG 5 56, right. Now do you know, you

Sir Ben:

the SIG 5 56 SWAT.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. The SIG that's yeah, the SW version, correct.

Sir Ben:

That's a cool gun.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, it's a that one is a rifle. So full length, 60 inch barrel and normal

Sir Ben:

think they made it in the 16 inch barrel. I guess it's a

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm yeah, so this gun happened to actually be a police gun. And so I got it used. But the good news is it was a police gun and therefore it had hardly been used at all.

Sir Ben:

Oh yeah.

Sir Gene:

Uhhuh even

Sir Ben:

rounds down the barrel maybe.

Sir Gene:

It said it 250 total rounds

Sir Ben:

Oh my

Sir Gene:

since they got it, which was, it was better than that. Cuz it was a sergeant's gun. Right. So it's it's basic. It was a guy, it was a, it was a gun for somebody that basically sits behind a desk all the time. So it was the most decked out gun that they had, but it was also the least used gun. So I'm like, yep. I'll take that. Perfect.

Sir Ben:

So you bought it from the police department.

Sir Gene:

I, well, the police department doesn't sell guns to people. They, they contract out within FFL to do that for them.

Sir Ben:

Right. But so this FFL specializes in that sort of thing.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. They just, they just sell guns to cops basically. So they, they it's, it's like a cop supply shop

Sir Ben:

So see if CSBs paying attention, you just admitted your law enforcement

Sir Gene:

I am not admitting anything to anyone of any country, especially not somebody that's sitting in Ireland and is from Poland.

Sir Ben:

well, you just said this FFL sells to, you know, cops, so,

Sir Gene:

yeah, no, they sell to everybody apparently. So anyway, this is a, this is a, a really neat looking gun. It has two grips. So it has a four grip as well as a standard grip. It is a SIG gun. It is essentially an AR lower with an AK 47 upper and it's in 5 56,

Sir Ben:

no buffer tube.

Sir Gene:

no buffer tube. Right? So it has a folding stock of real from the factory folding stock in a lot of ways, this gun is the great granddad of the current MCX line of guns from SIG

Sir Ben:

Yeah. Yeah.

Sir Gene:

three generations back from the MCs,

Sir Ben:

Yeah. The spear,

Sir Gene:

yeah, but it it's essentially that can also has a four grip with an integrated flashlight on it. Which I love the fact that the flashlight has a confusion mode on it.

Sir Ben:

your strobe, you mean?

Sir Gene:

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. My in any home defense gun should have a strobe on it. It's great. I will say that as soon as the spear is offered in a 3 0 8 or 300 win mag, I will be purchasing one

Sir Gene:

it's currently just in 5

Sir Ben:

eight fury.

Sir Gene:

Oh, just the, oh, oh, right, right, right. It's 68 fur eight, right. Yeah. I, I can't imagine that they wouldn't sell other calibers soon.

Sir Ben:

Well, I mean the military and the fury will probably come down in price in the next decade, but it's gonna take a decade to do it cuz the military, if they really do go to deploy that as a, the new battle rifle are going to be purchasing millions and millions and millions of rounds of ammunition,

Sir Gene:

is the spear different from just an MCX you can buy right now?

Sir Ben:

Chamber pressures.

Sir Gene:

But I mean, the chamber pressure, that's only because of the, the six, eight caliber. So,

Sir Ben:

the stroke as well,

Sir Gene:

I, I guess what I'm getting is why would you wait for a spear to be available in 5 56 when you can buy an MCX today? Which is

Sir Ben:

I don't want

Sir Gene:

the Spears based? Uh, Oh, what do you want? Oh, you want 3 0 8. Okay. So you want 7 62?

Sir Ben:

Yes.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. And, and is the MCX not available in 7 62? Right.

Sir Ben:

Don't believe so.

Sir Gene:

I don't know, I haven't checked. So I, you know, I don't know if they currently are

Sir Ben:

all the MCs are pistol variants. I don't want a pistol.

Sir Gene:

Well, the, the, the spear is a 12 inch barrel. Isn't it?

Sir Ben:

Mm-hmm

Sir Gene:

It's not, I thought it was,

Sir Ben:

well, it's also got the suppressor and all that.

Sir Gene:

yeah. So it's a, it's a 12 inch barrel with

Sir Ben:

But I want a civilian version with that, that doesn't require an NFA item here

Sir Gene:

So you want a spear, which is, but you want it in a 7 62

Sir Ben:

with a 16 inch

Sir Gene:

and with a 16 inch barrels, which, and I, you could literally buy that gun today. You don't need to wait for anything.

Sir Ben:

Please show me.

Sir Gene:

A I SIG yeah, I, I SIG with a 3 0 8. You could totally buy that.

Sir Ben:

We'll we'll. We'll

Sir Gene:

we'll have to do some Googling on the websites. I'm pretty sure that that that's available right now. I dunno, every time I go to six website, they try to get me to build my own three 20 and then charge me two grand for it every

Sir Ben:

Well that's because you want the crazy cutouts and the gold and yeah. Yeah.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. who wouldn't want that? I mean,

Sir Ben:

I wouldn't at

Sir Gene:

You, you wouldn't want the white gun with gold trim and an Adidas logo. Are you nuts?

Sir Ben:

Nope, no.

Sir Gene:

That's crazy. Anyway, so I I'm digging this gun. This gun has the, how do I describe it? It is the, my it's a very good trigger. I was gonna say it's my favorite trigger, but I can't say that because my favorite trigger was a gun on the gun that I sold that I don't own anymore. Probably will never have a trigger like that again. I had a mountain Eagle sniper rifle, and that thing had this trigger was like, you could just breathe on it and it would go off. It was perfect.

Sir Ben:

Hmm.

Sir Gene:

It was, it became a part of your finger. Like as soon as your finger was on it, you didn't feel a trigger anymore. It was really good. That was a completely useless gun. That was really cool.

Sir Ben:

What gun was that?

Sir Gene:

what,

Sir Ben:

What gun was that?

Sir Gene:

that was a mountain Eagle, 3 0 8 sniper.

Sir Ben:

Hmm.

Sir Gene:

It was a carbon fiber gun.

Sir Ben:

Shit.

Sir Gene:

and it was pretty heavy. I mean, the barrel was over an inch diameter.

Sir Ben:

Eh, well, with the early carbon fiber barrels, it had to be Cuz of stress. Yeah.

Sir Gene:

Well, the, the amazing thing about it is the heat dissipation was so good that your first and second round hit the same hole that, that gun I had it, so I bought it used, it was part of a matched set of two guns that was sold to a politician and ended up in the shop that I used to buy guns from. And I bought it and I shipped it back to to what's the company up there. I mean, it's basically iwi, but it's the American side of it. It's the same guys that made the desert Eagle and they had them Ize it and go through it and tweak it and everything. And when I got it back it was shooting a quarter, minute of angle. I mean, this thing was freaking amazing. Now that's only shooting, obviously federal gold man Shamo blah, blah, blah. But it was a spectacular gun that I never used.

Sir Ben:

Whoa, there you go. So the SIG MCX patrol version does come in a 16 inch barreled

Sir Gene:

There you go.

Sir Ben:

but it's only available in 5

Sir Gene:

have it in the are all of 'em just strictly in 5 56. They haven't

Sir Ben:

size six and 300 blackout is what they have on their website right now. And that's they don't even have the 2 27 fury yet.

Sir Gene:

So that's interesting. So if they have the blackout, that means they have the barrel that can run 3 0 8 through it.

Sir Ben:

Yep,

Sir Gene:

They just need the lower that'll handle 3 0 8.

Sir Ben:

correct?

Sir Gene:

if you could just take the upper off of that and slap it onto your own lower and have the gun you want.

Sir Ben:

Mm. The upper is what would have to change the upper and the lower cuz the magazine. Well, everything.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. I guess both of 'em would have to change when they, yeah, that's true. Yeah. So they just don't have it. They don't have it in 3 0 8 yet. Well, they will. I'm sure. If there's, yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of people clamoring to buy that gun and something else now. And why do you not want to buy it in the fury? In the six, eight.

Sir Ben:

Reloading the, the biomed metal casing and just the civilian variant of the 2 27 fury is I, I would, I would buy it in six, five CRE more before, before I'd buy in 2 27 fury

Sir Gene:

Oh, okay.

Sir Ben:

And everything else. Just, just not wanting to adopt another cartridge. That for me, my purposes and the way I wanna use it, I don't see a lot of advantage.

Sir Gene:

Mm

Sir Ben:

Now you give me the full on military version of the six, eight, where I can, that I could potentially reload. I'd be all over that in a heartbeat

Sir Gene:

but I guess with biomed cases, it'd be pretty hard to reload anything wouldn't it.

Sir Ben:

currently impossible. Yeah. With civilian reloading equipment.

Sir Gene:

Right, right. You need the commercial quality stuff. Um Hmm. Yeah. Well that, that probably means that they will be,

Sir Ben:

But you know, it's like why the us military and other militaries have used like bean primers in the past. They're not planning on reloading and they want something that it fits their purpose, but you know,

Sir Gene:

cheaper or what's the advantage?

Sir Ben:

it, it it's less likely to have the primer pop out, so it's locked into the case better versus just a pressure fit primer, like the civilian ammo and reloading world uses.

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm interesting.

Sir Ben:

So yeah, I mean, you can reload Dan primed cases, but it literally takes popping out the primer, which is pain in the ass with bean primers, then you have to take a tool and go in and reshape the primer hole. And then if you take too much, it will never fit. Right. It's just not worth it.

Sir Gene:

Hmm.

Sir Ben:

So

Sir Gene:

I, you know, I you've, you've answered a question that I've had for a long time, which is exactly what's different about that primer. So

Sir Ben:

essentially the, the bean primer just has pressure points sticking in that holds it in better. So the thought processes that Burdan primed ammo should have a longer shelf life that under adverse conditions should perform better. Things like that. You can theoretically do a hotter load and a Burdan primed round, even though military loads generally aren't because you're not gonna have enough pressure on the, the, the primer. Isn't gonna pop back into the the chamber of the gun

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

and cause a mal.

Sir Gene:

got it. Okay.

Sir Ben:

Which part of the reason why the six, eight fury round had to go with BI metal is because, you know, a, they had to get around the pressures that they were doing. And then B you know, the brass, the pressures that they were doing on the brass would expand to the point where you were gonna get primer pops, no matter what, that's, why they went with the steel casing on the bottom.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then the rest of it's plastic too.

Sir Ben:

No, they looked at a ammo variant that

Sir Gene:

Oh, they didn't pick

Sir Ben:

would save

Sir Gene:

they went with the other one. Okay.

Sir Ben:

Yeah, yeah, no, it it's brass. And and steel casing.

Sir Gene:

Got it. Okay. Oh, that's that is interesting. So do you just shoot stuff you reload or do you buy am occasionally?

Sir Ben:

I buy ammo. I, I, I definitely buy ammo, but I, and I'll buy be and prime surplus ammo to GoLink and do whatever. But you know, I, I, especially for long range stuff, like my 300, my, you know, I, I will go out and buy a box of hunting ammo every now and then if I wanna do that, but you know, when I'm shooting that gun over 5, 6, 700 yards, it's hand loaded stuff I've done on a single stage press.

Sir Gene:

Okay. Got it.

Sir Ben:

you know, I I'm, I'm the kind of guy when I'm loading something like that, it's, you know, very meticulous, very consistent, well above any match grade ammo I could buy you know, on the market.

Sir Gene:

Yeah. And I think some people reload to save money. You don't care about that. So you're just doing it from a quality standpoint.

Sir Ben:

well, you know, like AR rounds and things like that, or, you know, like something I'm gonna put through my AR 10 or my SOCOM 16, or my six, eight AR those I'm loading in, in much more big bulk processes just to have better ammo, cheaper, you know?

Sir Gene:

So, I, I found the picture without, you know, stopping and taking a photo of my own gun. I found the picture of the carbon 15 online here. So I just sent it to you. And it's the one on top the pistol. I don't have the pistol version. I have the rifle version,

Sir Ben:

Gotcha. Gotcha.

Sir Gene:

but it is literally the whole thing is just carbon fiber, the whole damn gun or, or plastic. However you wanna look at it. I mean, it's not really carbon fiber. It is a carbonized plastic kind of material. That's really like heavy duty plastic, but it's essentially plastic, upper lower everything

Sir Ben:

Everything. But the barrel and bolt

Sir Gene:

Yep. Barrel bolts. Gas tube is metal and the the trigger mechanism is metal. But pretty much everything else, but it, you know, breaks down with two pins, just like a normal AR in

Sir Ben:

about the buffer tube?

Sir Gene:

it does have a buffer tube. Yeah. The buffer tube is plastic. The spring is metal. Spring is

Sir Ben:

and the buffer I'm getting bedding or metal

Sir Gene:

Buffer's plastic. The spring is metal. Yeah.

Sir Ben:

I, I

Sir Gene:

Yeah. I just, I just

Sir Ben:

it heavy enough.

Sir Gene:

It's very light. It's not heavy at all. I think the buffer is bare. I mean, if it's announced, I be shocked. It's very light.

Sir Ben:

Interesting. So that, that is, that is gonna have a weird recoil impulse.

Sir Gene:

It's not. Yes. Yes. It's more Reilly. You feel it more than you do with a typical air.

Sir Ben:

I mean, you'd have to, cause you don't have that weight of that buffer to absorb.

Sir Gene:

Correct. Exactly.

Sir Ben:

is by the way, for those who don't know, that's

Sir Gene:

But look at the length of the buffer spring though, on the rifle version,

Sir Ben:

yeah,

Sir Gene:

it's really long.

Sir Ben:

yeah. Gotcha.

Sir Gene:

And the irony is this is, this is I found funny. So this is a rifle bought, you know, over 20 years ago, the what, what is a stock on that gun today would be referred to as not a stock, but a pistol brace

Sir Ben:

as yeah. Shooting brief.

Sir Gene:

because there's almost nothing there. It's just a slight little sliver of plastic. That's sticking out of the buffer tube. I mean, it's just like, I always wanted it to have a bigger pad in the back you know? But it,

Sir Ben:

More surface area.

Sir Gene:

more surface area. Yeah. Just to spread that impact that impulse. But it doesn't, but the barrel is full length.

Sir Ben:

go ahead.

Sir Gene:

No, that's I was just saying it's it is, it is still a technically an AR

Sir Ben:

Well, Jean, you showed me something new.

Sir Gene:

a plastic gun

Sir Ben:

Well, I just didn't, wasn't familiar with the plastic upper. I mean, I've got a polymer lower,

Sir Gene:

Yep.

Sir Ben:

but,

Sir Gene:

Yeah. And it it's I don't know. I, I think I'm trying to remember how much I've shot that gun. I'd say that gun right now has probably got probably about 5,000 round strip right around there.

Sir Ben:

Well, I mean, if it's worn that, well, then that's not.

Sir Gene:

and it's very clean when I took it apart. I was kind of shocked it's it's direct impingement, so there's no complex mechanism or anything in there, but it was still pretty clean. So, ah,

Sir Ben:

a lot of the problem with direct impingement really comes down to the ammo. You're firing if you're firing decent

Sir Gene:

Oh, yeah. I, I only use expensive ammo and I don't do reloaded

Sir Ben:

and then the other question is, are you shooting a caliber and appropriate barrel length so that the powder is being fully consumed before he hits that gas port? That's another

Sir Gene:

Now, maybe this is something you can control when you're loading yourself, which again, I like my dad used to reload. So I always had a free supply of ammo, but I never really got into reloading myself. But it seemed like for typical federal 5:56 AM that I would normally be shooting the, you don't get a full burn on the powder until about a 14 inch barrel.

Sir Ben:

yep. Pretty

Sir Gene:

Is that still the case? If you're, can you get faster burning?

Sir Ben:

So you can control the type of powder that you're putting in there to an extent, and some of it's gonna be hotter than, or

Sir Gene:

of 'em are faster burning or

Sir Ben:

absolutely.

Sir Gene:

so, so can you get, can you, like, if you were reloading yourself, can you get a different powder that would let you do a full burn in like a 12 inch barrel?

Sir Ben:

I don't know, specifically for 5 56, cuz I have never reloaded 5 56, but for instance, on some of the six, eight stuff for SPC, you could literally, depending on, you know, you could fully consume for a subsonic round powder in an eight inch barrel pretty easily. So there are two, there are two variables there that are gonna matter. One when you're developing your round, choosing the right powder for your application and then two doing chrono graphic experiments so that you realize when you go over X number of grains of powder, you're no longer getting any benefit because you now know that the barrel is not consuming the remaining powder. So then you back down, right? So that way

Sir Gene:

So do, do you bring your rig out to the gun range so you can just make a new round and test it right away? Or how does that

Sir Ben:

no, no, no, no. You develop loads. So you, you start off

Sir Gene:

Oh, so you pre-built different ones and then you test them one at a time.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. Well, generally when I'm doing my load development, I do three rounds of each formula that I'm gonna shoot. And also, depending on the type of application, if you're talking as semiautomatic, like an AR, then you're not looking at grouping near as much as you are outta something like, you know, a, a bolt gun, a bolt gun, first of all, finding the right round for that gun and that barrel and how that's gonna shoot with that particular head spacing that you have actually really matters. I mean, you can get a, at least a quarter MOA difference in accuracy out of that, if not more

Sir Gene:

And this is why the good, like good publications, meaning not YouTube that actually do tests of guns will do that, that test of a particular weapon with multiple brands of ammo, not just the same brand with different weights and then show you like which brand does this gun like?

Sir Ben:

Yep.

Sir Gene:

Absolutely.

Sir Ben:

So anyway, when I'm doing my load development depending on what type of guns for I'll usually start with three rounds of four or five different

Sir Gene:

yeah.

Sir Ben:

plays, whether it's different types of powder, different weight combinations, or even down to, okay. I, I think I've got the powder where I want it. Let me, I'm gonna shoot the same grain bullet, but let me play around with the Sierra match king versus the horny, you know, and find the exact right projectile.

Sir Gene:

Mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

Yeah.

Sir Gene:

no, that's cool.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. And then you start with your dope cards and you start building out, you know, coefficients and everything else, a distance

Sir Gene:

yep. That's I think you could get that on your phone these days.

Sir Ben:

okay.

Sir Gene:

Dope carts anyway. Just look up dope cart app. I think we've got enough, Ben. We, I just realized it's well over two hours that we've been Y.

Sir Ben:

yeah, the only problem is my sandwich theory at the beginning of the show. Totally. Didn't happen on this one. so,

Sir Gene:

Well, you're saying this conversation about plastic guns wasn't serious enough for you. Is that it

Sir Ben:

it wasn't the what I was meaning. No,

Sir Gene:

mm-hmm mm-hmm

Sir Ben:

So

Sir Gene:

well, I think this is a, you know, we don't just talk about guns. Obviously we did more so on this episode than we normally do. We usually get it more into political stuff and other craziness that's happening around the world. But it just so happened that lately, since I've been kind of gun shopping and spending a lot of time looking at stuff, and you went and got a new gun and a new site for it, that this is this has been a topic that's easy to talk about.

Sir Ben:

Well we can just end it by saying the queen is dead.

Sir Gene:

Yeah, that's right. That's a sad thing, I guess. I don't know. I mean, some people think she's dead. I'm not quite sure she's dead.

Sir Ben:

I don't know anyone who thinks it's.

Sir Gene:

just, I think she's just retired, but it is sad. It's the, you really, you would, you rather have Charles than her.

Sir Ben:

I mean, it's like when daddy Bush died, I that, you

Sir Gene:

He's

Sir Ben:

didn't make

Sir Gene:

I don't. Why do people keep saying that he's not dead? He's he's retired. He's just retired.

Sir Ben:

Yeah. Okay.

Sir Gene:

no, I just, I, I know how long lizard lived, dude. And then under a hundred years is not even the.

Sir Ben:

okay.

Sir Gene:

Much much longer anyway, with that. We'll go ahead and wrap it up. And then we will, we'll have episode one as soon as everything is ready, meaning the music, the cover arts, all that good stuff, the website. So, and obviously we're gonna make a big, a big deal about it on Ergen speaks as well. And talk about knowledge on the social so that everybody knows when a new podcast is up, but we're not quite there yet, but we still wanted to get this episode recorded. That's it? No parting words from you, Ben

Sir Ben:

gene as always, it was good. Good talking to you. Good therapy session. Ready for the new show.

Sir Gene:

that's sometimes what I feel like is I'm providing therapy. All right, everybody, we'll see you next time.