Sir Gene Speaks

0068 Sir Gene Speaks - with Dude Named Ben and Dude Named Ben!?

May 07, 2022 Gene Naftulyev Season 2022 Episode 68
Sir Gene Speaks
0068 Sir Gene Speaks - with Dude Named Ben and Dude Named Ben!?
Show Notes Transcript

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Gene:

This is sir gene. And today I've got a special treats. One band just isn't enough. So I got to Ben's Ben, number one, say hi.

Ben:

Patty Jean, you evil he than you.

Gene:

Yes. And then number two.

Ben Australia:

Jane. Nice to be here. Thanks for inviting.

Gene:

That's right. We have two dudes named Ben named Benz. Uh, boy, this is going to be a fun episode. So yes, you may have noticed a little difference in the accent too. So I think we're going to have a perspective from 180 degrees on the other side of the map.

Ben:

Yeah. I'm definitely looking forward to hearing, uh, the Australian position firsthand.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben Australia:

well, it's been a, been an amazing ride the past couple of years, and I'm also in Victoria as well. So we've had a, had a fairly interesting time, uh, of it as well. So looking forward to, uh, seeing what I can, uh, what I can contribute.

Gene:

Yeah. Well, at least you're in Sydney. Not Melbourne.

Ben Australia:

I'm I'm well, technically I'm not in either, so I'm

Gene:

No. Okay,

Ben:

yeah.

Ben Australia:

I'm I'm between the, between the two, but definitely more on the, on the Victorian side than, uh, the new south Wales.

Gene:

gotcha. Yeah. So you're, you're alive at least. So that's good. So the COVID didn't get you what, the five cases, the whole country.

Ben Australia:

No, no. Um, so yeah, no, I've survived the whole. Um, miraculously without getting a jab, a single test being, being pinged, you know, not, not signing in anywhere. So I haven't been pinged with any, uh, um, you've been to an exposure site, thus Moga. You must get tested immediately. Um, yeah, so I've been fairly, fairly lucky in, in all regards, so,

Ben:

so have you all learned your lessons about not giving up your guns?

Ben Australia:

oh boy. Yeah. Um, no, I don't, I don't think most people have most it's, it's a really amazing thing, you know? Um, most, most people think that that we've, we've all done the right thing. Like yes, no giving, giving up our, not just our guns, but our complete freedoms and staying inside our homes for the last two years was, was definitely the right thing to do. We've, you know, even though now that all the restrictions have ended, um, I've known more people who actually, it's very rare to, to know somebody who isn't jabbed these days. Um, you know, everybody's getting it now. Like it's, it's, even though I, we all work remotely at, at my workplace now, obviously. Um, and it's just swept through everyone. So everyone's sort of, sort of got it through friends of friends and, you know, all that sort of stuff. Despite this use jab number, and most people don't seem to put two and two together. Like, Hey, like maybe, maybe this stuff doesn't actually work. Like, you know, that doesn't seem to occur to most people. You know, and then even now our state premier even said, it's just absolutely beside myself, even a state premier said, if you've got the three jabs, you will not get Corona. And, and it's, it's just immediately, instantly provable, not true any to rub two brain cells together. And you can, you can figure out that that is just not the case. And so many people have parishes did that and it's just, I cannot believe what I'm witnessing, you know, going on around me, like, uh,

Ben:

Well, I mean, it's, it's worse than the lack of efficacy. I mean, when you look at what's, uh, what the FDA just released on J and J and then the Pfizer documents that just got dropped, you know, the, the, the Pfizer documents, they said it was completely F uh, affectations for pregnant women and so on, but that was based off a study of on pregnant mice. There was never any pregnant human trials. So, you know, Hey,

Ben Australia:

my, my, my favorite is the D so I, I, you know, when going back to when all this started and the vaccine come out, I'm like, okay, maybe this will actually work. You know, I don't, I don't think it will. And you look at the initial trial data, you know, those 44,000 people or whatever. Uh, and you can see by the breakdown of the, the, the two cohorts that the jab did not chat, that it just didn't work. And the way that the, you know, the, basically they wrote the test plan, I could see how they wrote the test plan was that they. When they were writing the criteria for the testing that they knew it wasn't going to work. Right. And it's just, it's just continued the whole way through. And then the latest, you know, and it's even worse than that, the latest data dump and apparently it's what 12% effective for a week. And then it drops down to 1%, which is just statistically bullshit employers. I forgot to

Ben:

No, you're

Ben Australia:

were. Yup.

Gene:

Yeah, and then you can swear all you want here.

Ben:

We

Ben Australia:

All right. So, um, yeah. So after a week it drops down to two, 1%. Like, it's just, this is, this is a joke, like, and they, they knew this the whole time. Right. And, and what, what was it? Pfizer, who is the corporation that received the largest corporate find in history for literally lying about, um, medical trials? Like, come on, people like, wow, how could you not see all this? Uh,

Ben:

well. That's the thing is, you know, a company that's been fined over a billion dollars G they wouldn't ever do anything wrong. And you know, you, you, your analogy there, and what you're talking about is a good thing. And I don't think a lot of people might understand it. I know you you've got a QA background, so we might want to break it down a little further, but whenever you're setting up a plan to test something and to see if it's going to work, it's fairly easily to manipulate the, uh, the experiment, if you will,

Gene:

Yeah, the test criteria,

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Ben:

Right. So, you know, maybe talk, uh, talk a little more about that.

Ben Australia:

Well, so you mean talk about the, like what, what Pfizer actually did or

Ben:

well, just examples of how things can be manipulated to yield as a desired result. So like, I was a physics and math major, so I can go into that, but then Gino smack me cause I'll put everyone to sleep.

Gene:

you know, everyone knows you as physics and math major. Cause you bring it up on every single episode.

Ben Australia:

Uh, yeah. Okay. So, well, like, uh, so one of my, one of my favorite things is his phrasing. So, you know what you talk about physics and math major. So my, my background, um, is, uh, was originally in education. Um, you know, and that's, uh, that we're going back a very long time now. So one of the phrasing and how you say things, words matter, um, I think is the, is the phrase that I've, I've heard said a lot

Gene:

I've said that phrase a lot, myself.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. So, um, like when you're doing a test plan or test criteria, um, you know, how you, how you phrase things, like what, how do you measure success? What means that something has, has worked well? And you can say that, oh, you know, I'm testing this thing for some improvement. It's like, okay, great. But you know, one, 1% is some improvement, a hundred percent is some improvement. 200% is some improvement. Like what, what actually do you mean? What are you testing for and what is considered to be good? So, you

Ben:

What is that minimum viable difference?

Ben Australia:

Yeah, exactly. So when yeah, so what foster did is they, they basically said we want to measure for some improvement in case numbers, I think was the, uh, was the thing, uh, and what they, what they didn't test for specifically is not in there is hospitalization, right? They did not even measure that the numbers weren't recorded anywhere. Uh, and they did record, uh, death numbers, but out of what out of 44,000 people, I think only three people in the entire trial ended up dying of Corona. And that was also the key word of not with, um, during, you know, during the trial period. So, so the, and the death rate, like 44,000 people, and you get three deaths. So immediately that, that sort of indicates that either this thing, isn't actually a really huge problem at all. So why are we doing this to begin with or something funky is going on? Like, they're, they're twisting the numbers and my other, my other favorite one that's, you know, that didn't make a lot of sense at the time, but is also making a lot of sense. Now is the number of overall deaths. So it was something like, uh, 13 or 14 people. I think my memory is getting a little bit hazy of this now, because this is what two years ago or a year and a half ago. Um, 13 people in the section of the trial died, uh, during the whole, you know, the whole process and 21 people of, of which four, um, were heart attacks, 21 people died, uh, in the jabs cohort. Right? No people died of a heart attack in the unjammed cohort. So you think, gee, that's a bit, gee, that's a bit weird, but no, now year and a half down the track, that seems to make a lot of sense because myocarditus

Ben:

Well, I mean, the, the thing is this has been available to be seen in the data for a long time. And I think the three of us have all been aware of this and been tracking it. And you know, of course we're just conspiracy therapists and theorists that, you know, shouldn't be

Gene:

Oh, I like that.

Ben Australia:

yeah.

Ben:

But, um, you know, the, the fact of the matter is it's, it's something that, you know, it's, it's been out there and for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, but you know, people often just, oh no, no, no. I'm just going to listen to the quote unquote experts. And that's where, you know, you get into a real dangerous situations. It's for me, anytime you put someone so high on a pedestal as that they are an expert, well, they may be, they may know more than you do, but if you're a reasonably educated person and can read data, you can ask questions and, uh, you know, that should be encouraged, not discouraged in my mind.

Ben Australia:

Yep. The other in the, one of the. One of the best thing about the whole pandemic is that it's, it's shown so many experts to just not be very good at what they're talking about altogether.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben Australia:

this is, one of the, uh, my, uh, um, my parents, uh, uh, Greenies you'd call them, um, you know, they've been environmentalist for, for a very long time

Gene:

hippies.

Ben Australia:

well, I mean, no, not, no, not necessarily hippies, but just very environmentally conscious, you know, and, and all of that, I remember even, even way back to the eighties, you know, all of these things, I remember being said, the, the global cooling global warming, uh, you know, making predictions about, you know, sea level rises by the year 2000, all this sort of stuff, none of that's come true, you know? So, so along the same sort of lines as that, you know, the experts who was supposed to be experts in, in that subject, none of them have been wrong over the years on a long enough timeline. Everyone's, you know, predictions fall to zero. Uh, and it's been the same thing now, but it just a much more accelerated timescale. Like it, it took, you know, what, what was that person that, that Adam, um, Adam Curry, uh, host to host a home, you know, predicting 2 million deaths or something in the first six months in America. And it's just not, it just doesn't, it just doesn't happen. And the same sort of people predicted, you know, I think it was like a million deaths in the first 12 months in Australia. And what did, what, what are we, uh, like, you know, even in the extremely dodgy way that they made. Uh, died, died with verses from we're still only what, 2000 or something like that. Not even 2000.

Ben:

yeah.

Ben Australia:

it's just ridiculous.

Ben:

The, you know, the, the lack of excess deaths in general is, is, you know, the statistic I've been following for a long time, because when you look at overall mortality, it's fairly predictable year over year, you're going to have about the same amount of deaths every year. Now with the aging boomer population and here in the U S that may shift some, but that, all that said, you know, people die every year. Lots of people die from the flu. Lots of people die from lots of different things. People who have contributing comorbidities oftentimes get taken out by simple little things. So, you know, I, I think if you're fairly healthy, COVID is not something you necessarily have to worry about, but, you know, if you, if you've got some serious comorbidities, then you might need to take it seriously. But now my, my, uh, my 70, uh, my 76 year old mother went through, COVID just fine. So, you know, I don't know.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Yeah. What was the statistic? The CDC only, only 6% or something of all people in the United States who, who died, uh, from, from the Korea, uh, only had no call, no co-morbidities or, or something like that. Like just 6% like, wow. Wow.

Ben:

Yeah. I mean, that, that number is right in line with like the flu. And I am not saying that Corona is a flu, they are different viruses, but I'm just comparing the mortality

Gene:

No, it's not. It's the cold that's uh, that's the virus.

Ben Australia:

you know, and the, and the, the same, same disclaimer that, um, you know, I've heard elsewhere, like we're not, you know, minimizing the, this is a disease that people get and people have died from it. Uh, just making it that it's, um, a more realistic, um, and sensible, uh, approach and viewpoint of, of what's really happened. You know, I certainly

Gene:

my other show cohost, Darren has it right now.

Ben Australia:

um,

Gene:

So I guess if he dies, then they'll be looking for a people to step up and volunteer.

Ben Australia:

uh, and, and certainly for us down here, like the lockdowns themselves have done just massive damage far, far, far, much more damage than, than the virus itself, you know, and people say, oh, well, you know, it's, uh, it was actually Corona that, that did all this, all this stuff. So, no, it was the lockdowns guys. Like the, you know, the sewer suicide rate is, is something ridiculous. So a friend

Gene:

Um,

Ben Australia:

actually works in mental health in the state. Uh, and yeah, like they're just absolutely absolutely smashed.

Ben:

Well, I just can't imagine, especially given your understanding, you know, how frustrated and frustrating it must be to have the populace given up their freedoms for, you know, what I think we all consider here a fairly, uh, trivial risk, you know, I, I just, I can't imagine, uh, I can't imagine doing that. And I, I was shocked in the U S how much we complied. I

Gene:

Oh, yeah.

Ben:

one of very few people who, you know, went around challenging the mask, man. They it's, um, from the very beginning, uh, when I was living in DFW at the time, and, uh, the mask mandate came in for Tarrant county and it was coming in at 6:00 PM on a Friday. So at 6 0 1, I walked into target here in the U S and you know, they tried to get me to wear a mask and everything else. And I just said, no, and didn't comply and got a lot of shit. I mean, I had people yelling at me. I had, uh, one person from their car, just scream obscenities at me as they drove past me because I wasn't wearing a mask. And, you know, it's just astonishing to me how readily people just complied.

Ben Australia:

yeah, yeah. Well, it's, uh, to, to highlight a bit of a different, like it hasn't, you know, maybe it's because I don't live in a major city, like I'm, I'm a fair bit. Um, and for like, um, I had some, some surgery on my face, um, a little like, uh, about 12 months ago or something. So I actually had a very good reason to not wear a mask for, for a while, uh, after having a skin cancer cut out. So, um, and in, in that case, like I was going everywhere including into having to travel into the major city to do stuff. And I never once got abused or somebody, somebody even said, you know, just don't please put your mask on or anything like that. Like it never, uh, it's, it's never really happened. So, so that side of things, you know, I'm, I'm glad that the Australia seems to be well in, in my experience. Um, you know, uh, Australia seems to be a little bit better, but people, I have been very disappointed at the general level of, of how, of how compliant, you know, people have been. And we've, we've got this, this, um, people think of Australia as being a larrikin nation, a slightly rebellious, you know, we've got the Eureka stockade as a, as a piece of history of ours, you know, standing up to authority and that sort of thing. And it's just not, it just doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Like, it's been very, very disappointing for, for me to, to learn these things about, about my nation.

Ben:

Yeah. Well, I think it was someone early on used the analogy of, uh, you know, talking about, uh, former prison colony and everything else and,

Gene:

Yeah. Like I use that all the time.

Ben:

right. But you know, some of the descendants were the guards, so,

Ben Australia:

Yes.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Australia:

I'll actually stick my hand up for that one as well. Um, yeah, no, from the original red code on the, on the first fleet is one of my, one of my ancestors as well. And then also, um, you know, not, uh, I mean, obviously there's a lot of prison descendants in there too, but yeah. Then, uh, the other ones are, um, other notable ones are from Denmark, uh, in the 1850s, 1860s or something or other, so, yeah, there's a, there's a few of us that are, uh, directly prison colony stock.

Ben:

Yeah,

Gene:

Hm. Yeah. And it's, it's sad to have watched Australia change their image from that sort of rebellious. All the poisonous animals live here, kind of spirit

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Gene:

to one, very consistent with that sort of joking image of prison island, where people are, are told what to do. And they actually comply and get mad at others who don't comply, uh, which is a pretty bad,

Ben Australia:

the, yeah, the, the, I mean, yeah, they're getting mad at other people who don't comply it doesn't really, hasn't really sort of happened, but the, yeah, geez.

Gene:

oh, I dunno, man. There's a lot of videos online. I mean, if it hasn't happened to you, I think you're pretty lucky, but there's, I've watched a ton of these videos of Australians that have, uh, been filmed.

Ben Australia:

the government getting, getting mad at you for not complying. Like that's yeah. That's, that's certainly happening. Like the, the stuff that happens in the protests around Melbourne, just absolutely disgraceful

Gene:

Um,

Ben Australia:

could not. And there's been, there's recently been an ad campaign. That's that started up as well. So the, the police are also like, starting to say, oh guys, like we we're cool. Okay. Right. Everything's cool now. Okay. Like we'll be serving your community. Right. You know? Um, they're, they're, they're literally putting out ads saying, Hey, police are here for you. And I'm like, wow. I've, I've had eyes for the last two years guys. Like you are not, you are not on our side. Like, come on. You know, and especially now we've got a federal election coming up and then a state election happening

Gene:

Yeah, you guys should defund the police is what you should do.

Ben Australia:

oh,

Ben:

you know, you joke, but given the way the police have

Gene:

I

Ben:

across the Western world, I'm not opposed to it. I I'm, you know, I'm, I'm much more of a anarchistic guest. Most people are, but you know, it's really astonishing to me because it isn't just Australia. It isn't just the us, it's the entire Western world that just reacted to this in a very authoritarian Chinese way. And you know, part of me really is depressed about that, but I wonder if it's not, you know, just, you know, Jean we've talked about how China is on the ascent and the U S is on the decline. I wonder if that wasn't a major contributing force to that and had this happened, let's say I'd like it, if this had happened in the nineties, even, I don't think the reaction would have been.

Gene:

No, no. And then the eighties politicians would have been shot. I mean, this is, this is definitely, it's been a wide swing to the left for the United States. And I, I, I think I might even mentioned this cartoon on the other episode is, um, Elon Musk tweeted a cartoon with the person sort of standing between somebody on the left and the right, and this person was a little bit on the left side and then the rights just standing there. And then then on the next cartoon, the frame, the, the guy that represents the left is walking away and moving further to the left. And now this person that was slightly to the left is in the middle. And the third frame, the, the left, he keeps watching further left this person that was on the left. And then the middle is now on the right side of the middle. And then the, the left he's yelling at him fascist the, the movements of politics, not just in the U S but globally to what would have been considered extremist far left agenda 20 years ago. And now the mainstream left agenda has left a lot of people that were sort of. Middle of the roaders people that were, you know, pro-abortion, they were, uh, pro uh, environment. Uh, but they also were somewhat individualistic and didn't think that people ought to be, you know, telling others what kind of language to use. They were against burning books and burning records. These people have now solidly found themselves to be considered right wing, which is not anything that they would consider themselves or, or would have been considered 20 years ago.

Ben:

Well, I, I mean, I think it's even further than that, you know, we've, uh, for instance, I have most people today would call me a conservative, but I'm not a conservative, I'm a classical liberal, I'm very much a, you know, leave me the hell alone type person. I'm the kind of person who, you know, gay marriage, for example, there's no issue there. Government has no business in marriage, just,

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

get the hell out of marriage. So.

Gene:

the apps at the same thing as like a, that the problem with gay marriage is marriage,

Ben:

Yes.

Gene:

not gay. It's, it's the idea that somehow the government, rather than a church is sanctioning a marriage. That's ridiculous. That should not be in place.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

Well, I'm curious to see what, um, uh, what Ben, number two. Uh, what your sort of prognosis is, uh, both for Australia and what you're seeing in the news. I don't know if you watch the news, because out here in the U S with the president that we have, the prognosis is not good at all

Ben Australia:

Yeah, well, I suppose. Yeah, so watching, um, no, I don't, I don't really watch a lot lately. I mean, let me clarify that. I don't really watch a lot of broadcast TV. Like I don't think I've watched anything that that's come over the airwaves for about 10 or 15 years or something I've been, you know, typically watch everything online and download a TV shelf. I really want to watch it or stream it or anything like that. So, yeah. So the news, um, also maybe why I'm resistant to a bit of the propaganda because I don't, you know, watch the, the, uh, yeah. Watch the news, which

Gene:

propaganda.

Ben Australia:

I don't watch the propaganda here. Um, yeah, so like the prognosis jeez, um, for America is because American politics ever since, you know, 2015 has just been absolutely fascinating. So I've definitely got into that a lot and probably no more, um, than, than just about anybody I've come across in my,

Gene:

It's a TV show

Ben Australia:

ah, arts fan, you know, it's better, it's better than TV. It's like, you just couldn't write some of this stuff. It's just amazing.

Gene:

chow. That's true.

Ben Australia:

my God. Like the, and now that the Durham investigation stuff, like, I just, I just can't get enough of it.

Gene:

Yeah. The house of cards like really portrayed government does a lot more.

Ben Australia:

I mean, yeah.

Ben:

Oh, the house of cards.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah,

Ben Australia:

if, if, if, um, if, if Kevin Spacey was w was the precedent, like you'd be in a lot more trouble right now, you know, because he could eat one, like he can actually string a couple of sentences together. Number two, you can remember his lines, you know, like jeez. Um, and

Ben:

you know, Biden, it's just at this point, it's, it's fricking elder abuse and Pelosi, same thing, you know? I mean, the, the fact of the matter is. they are not the driving force. They are puppet pieces and it's, it's, It's just astonishing to me that people, people can't look at Viden and go, okay, this, this, this is a problem, but there are some people

Gene:

totally a problem. We need to get rid of Biden and put AOC and

Ben:

Got it.

Ben Australia:

Wow. Wow. Jean that's

Gene:

she would be a much prettier president to look

Ben Australia:

mean, it would, I cannot wait for that episode. I mean, it's going to

Gene:

Yeah, exactly.

Ben Australia:

Yep. Um, yeah. So, sorry, going, going back a

Gene:

Everybody knows. I like AOC,

Ben Australia:

It's this is this, that, that Amish thing again, isn't

Gene:

especially when you put her in a bonnet. Oh my God. Don't even get me started on.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. So, so going back, like the, the, um, rise of, of, you know, it does the rise of China impact all of this, like, ah, for, for certain, uh, definitely our, our state premier here. I, our fantastic, um, Daniel, you know, you can hear the gritted teeth, Daniel Andrews, um, Has all had, had a fair bit of a lean towards, towards China. Like we were going to manufacture some trains in Victoria and he's like, no, no, no. We'll just get China to build them for us. Like, wow, buddy. Like, that's really not the latest thing, you know, uh, has been, he's ordered however many million, uh, rat tests they're all made in China. You know, you could, you could have bought some, could have bought them from however many countries that are manufacturing

Gene:

What's a rep test.

Ben Australia:

Uh, yeah. Well, I wish I didn't know that either. So the rapid antigen test is that, is

Gene:

Uh, okay.

Ben Australia:

a, yeah, I couldn't tell if you were making a, uh, uh, making a

Gene:

No, I thought, I thought he said rat R a T. I was like, what are you testing the rats for?

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Well, I mean, geez, any, anything as long as we can get those case numbers up, gene we'll we'll test

Gene:

Yeah. Well, didn't you guys. Cause I felt like weren't the rats imported to Australia. They killed the frogs or something.

Ben Australia:

No. So that was, yeah, the cane toad. So the cane toad was imported to, to, to kill the

Gene:

Oh, kill the mice.

Ben Australia:

now the cane beetle, um, you know, which I think, I can't remember if that if the cane beetle was an accidentally imported pest or whatever, but

Gene:

And what were the dog's important for?

Ben Australia:

uh, uh, no dingoes mate Dingo has always, always been around, you know, they ate, they ate the babies. Um, yeah, over the keto. Yeah. Amazing story about the keto. Like it, it was a failure on so many levels, you know, obviously it was a massive past and also it didn't even kill the cane beetle because the cane. Uh, the cane toad couldn't jump high enough to actually get the cane beetle. So it was just, it's just a failure. And then, you know, it was, um, uh, there was some other, some other animals that there were, that, that naturally ate the cane toad and they were, there was a debate about whether we should bring this thing into, to try and cure the cane toad problems. Ah, come on guys. Seriously? What?

Ben:

have

Gene:

These are all government pro

Ben Australia:

Yeah,

Ben:

consequences?

Gene:

yeah. Or lessons about government programs working.

Ben:

Exactly.

Ben Australia:

yes, yes, I'm I'm from the

Gene:

Yeah. But weren't there other animals. I mean, Australia has got a problem with imported rabbits or something to now,

Ben Australia:

or, I mean,

Gene:

or maybe I'm thinking of a different animal,

Ben Australia:

uh, yeah, I mean there's, yes, there is a lot of rabbits and rabbits do

Gene:

maybe crocodiles.

Ben Australia:

No crack crocodiles have always been around. Um, they, they're definitely not imported and we don't really have a problem with them. Just don't just don't go away.

Gene:

Now why don't the crocodiles eat, eat all the, uh, uh, you know, the koala.

Ben Australia:

Uh, well, cause yeah, cause the koalas are in the trees. Like we, yeah, there it's a little bit. Yeah. Crocodiles. Not, not, not the best climates.

Gene:

But then

Ben Australia:

I mean, we did have a, um, we did actually have a problem with, with koalas, uh, nearly going extinct because in the, I think it was in the late 18 hundreds for,

Gene:

yeah, too many Chinese buying the for toys.

Ben Australia:

yeah. Well, for some reason they, they legalized, um, killing koalas for

Gene:

That's cause they make call toys in China that they saw all over the world for how cute those are and they use real for,

Ben Australia:

Yeah. And because they, they sleep during the day. Right? Like they, they just nearly got wiped out overnight hate. Like, he's just it's mind boggling the toady, wait. Oh yeah. This is going to work out. Sure. Yeah. And then, yeah, they nearly got wiped out. So they actually went extinct in Victoria, I think. Um, and then I, you know, obviously after a little while I realized that this was not a great idea and, and put a ban back on it. Uh, but it's still the numbers still aren't anywhere near what they used to be, you know,

Gene:

aren't there like killer call us too. I've seen these videos of koalas attacking. Yeah, that's right.

Ben Australia:

Yep. I mean, drop bears are definitely real. Our national museum has a, um, a page on drop is if anybody wants to, wants

Gene:

Droppers. Yeah. Cause they, I understand they they're mostly attracted by the colorful clothing that Americans were walking around.

Ben Australia:

Um, I mean, really it's, it's, it's really hard to know because there's, there's very few witnesses left alive. So, you know, pinning down who, who gets, uh, you know, who gets targeted and, and who does it is, is, you know, it's challenging at the best of time.

Ben:

You know, my first exposure to the word drop bears was on a blue episode, man. And I was like, what the heck is drop bears. So I started Googling and yeah, it was, it's an interesting thing, but I got to tell you out of all the shows, my kid watches that's, that's a good one. It really

Ben Australia:

Yup. Yup. Blue blue is definitely on, on repeat around here. Like it is just nearly, nearly 24 7. Yup.

Ben:

Yeah. We still haven't gotten season three in the U S so that's, you know, we're feeling it here, but,

Ben Australia:

Oh really? Well, you can, you can find it like it is. I can, you know, I can send you links and things if you really want it,

Ben:

yeah. Yeah, I know. I, I can, I can pirate it too, but you know, uh, yeah, uh, I tend to pay for my media these days. I mean, back in college, man, I back when, uh, Netflix and blockbuster were doing the DVD programs and sending DVDs out, I was ripping and copying. I was copying labels. I was producing some pretty decent bootlegs back in the day,

Ben Australia:

Oh yeah.

Ben:

but

Gene:

allegedly.

Ben:

allegedly.

Ben Australia:

Yep. Oh yeah. Back like I was the, I was back in, in when, when MP3s first even even came out. Yeah. I was a huge MP3 collector and have been sort of ever seen, but I've definitely tried to, to purchase anything that I like, I do purchase it, but I definitely have a digital copy of everything because you know, you just want to save the physical media so it doesn't get damaged or anything like that. But yeah, certainly run a, run, a huge, you know, Plex instance with, with all of the, all of the stuff that I like, you know, but yeah, definitely try to purchase things when I, when I like it.

Ben:

Well, you know, I, I just, the thing I don't like about the way the licensing structure is, is, you know, it's a license that can be revoked. So for instance, all my audible, uh, You know, I've got probably 400 plus books in my audible library and my Kindle library and so on. Um, I have, you know, D D uh, DRM copies saved off on an ass somewhere, you know, just because I, I, I bought that. I want to

Gene:

You mean D dear EMD.

Ben:

Correct. Removing the DRM. Yes.

Ben Australia:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For, so

Gene:

yeah. It's interesting. I've done the exact same thing from my audible books as well, because, uh, honestly the audible price is exactly the same as a physical copy anyway. So it's not like you're getting some kind of bargaining that I'm ripping. Well, I don't consider that to be at all. Uh, you know, unsavory, I think, uh, getting a removing DRM from anything that you own, that you paid for is perfectly legitimate.

Ben Australia:

yup. Yup.

Ben:

Well, and

Ben Australia:

are a little bit different for, for us. Like we've still a lot in actual physical like books, whenever, whenever something's, you know, educational, we've tried to, um, you know, get, get it so we can stick it on a shelf. And so somebody else can pick it up at any point in time and, and read it. But you know, the entertainment stuff like ma.

Ben:

Yeah, Jean and I were actually talking about that a while back because I'm the same way. If I, if I had like a book, if there's a book that is important to me, uh, you know, first of all, I'd probably have an audio copy. I'll have a Kindle copy and I'll have a physical copy sitting on my shelf. So, um, I'm the exact same way. Any, anything that's of any import is a physical copy, but to your point, like a lot of the pulp science fiction or stuff like that, that doesn't really matter, you know? Oh,

Gene:

Yeah, I I've moved too much. I got rid of all my books about 10, 12 years ago, after moving a number of times with books, it's just, there's so damn heavy

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Yeah. We, we have

Gene:

and I'm not like Ben real reread stuff. I don't reread books. So if I read it once, that's the one time I will have read it. So holding out to a whole bunch of paper books that I'll never do anything with got rid of them.

Ben:

you also don't have. kids though to

Gene:

I don't have kids. That's

Ben:

this.

Ben Australia:

Yes, yes. Yeah. Definitely looking forward to that, like,

Gene:

I would never say you should read this to a kid kids. No better than three things. These.

Ben Australia:

uh, or look very much looking forward to, to handing the kids a copy of 1984 and saying, Hey guys, this

Gene:

Instruction manual 1984

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Gene:

only implemented in 2020. So with a slight 40 year delay,

Ben:

so Ben, how many kids do you have, man?

Ben Australia:

To.

Ben:

Yeah. Cool. I've

Gene:

he starts asking you for your wife's maiden name, don't answer it please.

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Ben:

no, I've got,

Ben Australia:

I met, this really great person online. They want to know my, all this stuff about me already.

Gene:

Uh huh.

Ben:

Yeah, we we've. So we've got a, in my house here. We've got, uh, my, my two step kids, so we've got a 20 year old and a 16 year old and then we've got a two year old and a five month old. So we've got quite the, quite the gap here,

Ben Australia:

yeah, yeah. Jeez and four, four kids in the house. I grew up in a four child household, so yeah. Good on you could only have been, uh,

Ben:

Well, we've got to, man. All I can tell you is it's terrorism at both ends of the spectrum, so

Ben Australia:

Yes. Yes.

Gene:

there might be something in common there.

Ben:

yeah, but uh, yeah, the,

Ben Australia:

something in common, is that, is that the, you know, the, the only, the only common factor in all your failed relationships is you.

Ben:

indeed. Yeah, Ben, if you. have, I don't know if you grew up reading it or not, but a good kids series is the Chronicles of Narnia,

Ben Australia:

Oh, for sure. Yeah. It was a massive, uh, a TV phenomenon when I was growing up. I think it was a BBC series that was shown, uh, when I was a kid here and oh yeah, no, fantastic. Yes. I think we, we definitely have, yeah, we've got a huge collection of all of the original, you know, Hans Christian Anderson. Um, you know, now, now are definitely the kid of the best kids books game of Thrones. The series is

Gene:

Yeah, that's a great kid's book

Ben Australia:

Countless.

Gene:

of that crap from Disney.

Ben Australia:

Oh boy. Yeah. Geez. What an M what an amazing couple of weeks for dinner Disney. Now that you've, you've brought that up. Like what a, what an incredible cellphone.

Ben:

Well, I mean, it's going to be real interesting to see what the lawsuit in the case, because Disney saying that, you know, the Florida state government cannot dissolve their special governing powers without paying for the debt. But I,

Gene:

you want to bet?

Ben:

Yeah. that's what I'm saying. I think I'm about ready to sell them a little bit of Disney stock that I, I mean, I've had Disney stock for forever and it's been

Gene:

No, I would get rid of it. It's they're going to go down.

Ben:

it's about to tank, man. I think they're going to have, uh, an additional billion dollars, a debt added to them, and that is going to hit the stock price hard.

Ben Australia:

And, and how much, you know, and how much of their profit margin is going to be evaporated, you know, once they're actually paying for all of the stuff that they should have been paying for, you know, on, so they've got this massive debt, despite not having all of the bills that they should've had during all of this time, because they run their own government, you know, once they actually start paying, you know, council rates and, um,

Ben:

property taxes.

Ben Australia:

you have property taxes and all these other things like that, they just, wow.

Ben:

well, here's the thing that people haven't did. I don't think a lot of people in the U S have really clicked to and understood about this. So Disney has been, had this special governing body. So they, they literally did not have a tax valuation. So when this is resolved, the state's gonna come in and do an evaluation of the worth of that property. And then they're going to be taxed on it.

Gene:

Um,

Ben:

How, what do you, what do you think Disney world's worth?

Ben Australia:

Mm

Ben:

imagine what that tax bill is

Gene:

well, Disney's going to say it's worthless.

Ben Australia:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene:

Yeah, no, it's, it is a, they're trying to play it up. Like it's going to be a loss for Florida. It's anything, but Disney has been getting away with murder for so many years, you know, they're, they, they treat almost every employee as a performer, so they don't have to provide any benefits.

Ben Australia:

Yup.

Gene:

Uh, and then he can force them to work 14, 18 hours a day without, uh, you know, any consequences because they're special exceptions in the us for performers versus normal employees.

Ben Australia:

And the staff will also do it because they, they just want to work for Disney and they just want to be, you know, a little Royal princess,

Gene:

Well, if you just, if you live there, they're the biggest employer, so it's, uh, I'm, I'm very happy to see this happening. I think Disney's been an evil company pretty much since its inception. Uh, so it's nice to see things moving in the right direction.

Ben:

Well, I mean, so, you know, been, we talked about bluey, but I'm very careful about what I allow my two year old to watch. And we were, I was sitting down and watching and we had put on, uh, someone had put on a movie for him and it was inside out. And this movie it's, uh, you know, it's all about feelings and, uh, the, the characters are, uh, the different emotions in the kid's head, right? So there's

Gene:

That's a chick movie.

Ben:

There's lots of stuff about it, but it's interesting. And what I immediately said, well, we're not playing this movie ever again. You know, you pick up on things, but so in the mom's head, all her emotions are. And the dad's head, all his emotions are male, but in the little girl who is drawn to be somewhat androgynous in my mind and view has a mix of male and female emotions.

Ben Australia:

Hmm. Yup.

Ben:

So what, what is that telling your kid

Ben Australia:

it's not, it's saying, trying to teach your kid without openly, you know, saying stuff. Um, yeah, no, I completely agree. Um, you know, we, we are very careful with, with what, um, they watch and that's why, you know, one of the reasons why either bluey or, uh, poor patrol is, is on nearly 24 7 because they both, um, they're both very, very benign and, and have a lot of good messaging and, you know, they, they're not, not filled with, with, um, subliminal wokeness,

Ben:

Yeah, the only thing,

Ben Australia:

stuff does.

Ben:

the only thing I've caught in bluey is just some of the environmental ism and, you know, I'm just not really pushing, uh, you know, very atheist view, which that's fine. Um, but it, anyway, it's just, it's, it, it, but, you know, bandit and chili and everything that this is just good parenting and, you know, I, I, I think pretty highly of it.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Well, the, yeah, the, the atheism, because Australia is, is basically, and, uh, over the last couple of years, I think the last census, um, is where we crossed over from being a, a Christian nation to being an atheist nation. Uh, so yeah, that's, you know, sort of, sort of expected for us, but yeah, the, the environmental ism also is a bit, is a bit hard to, to get away with the green lobby is very, very strong, uh,

Gene:

why do you think that is the case? Because it's a country that has a lot of land. That's not like everyone's living in a New York like environment where you barely ever see a, a green park. Um,

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Well, it's probably because that's not the case because a lot of, you know, like, like both of my, um, both of my parents grew up on farms, right? So, you know, that's and most, most people my age, you know, and my parents are in their seventies now as well. So, and that was the case. We were an agrarian nation up until sort of 1980s ish. You know, so most people, his parents grew up on farms and everything around them was extremely green. Um, you know, and they, they remember, you know, everything being, you know, baby boomers, remember everything being plentiful and, and they, they never remember the bad weather or the, the massive floods that they had when they were little kids. And now all they hear about is, is, you know, how bad the weather is. And they live in a big dirty city and all this sort of stuff. So it's, you know, it's a little bit sort of top of mind awareness stuff, I think,

Gene:

Oh, that just seems so weird to me because I totally see if you grew up in like, uh, you know, 1800 London where you couldn't breathe because of the pollution, because of the sweat from all the coal, coal plants there. Uh, but if you, if you grew up someplace with clean water and clean air, what the hell would ever make you become a grain? Because it seems to me like

Ben Australia:

Well, if we don't, if we don't all become green Jean, then we could lose all this clean water and clean air, you know, despite the fact that that might not actually be true. Um, yeah, the, the fear, fear of missing out.

Gene:

it's a weird thing for me. look, I think everybody enjoys nature. At least most people do. And the, having a good clean environment, like the thing that I've always hated is going camping somewhere and then seeing trash that people love.

Ben Australia:

It's the

Gene:

You know, in the middle of the woods that hasn't dissolved completely yet. Like beer cans, like they're gonna probably last a few hundred years.

Ben Australia:

yeah. Yeah. So I, I don't class myself as, as an environmentalist, but definitely I don't like air pollution because having Brown's guys is just, just looks yuck. You know, like you don't, you don't want that.

Gene:

well it actually looks kind of pretty, it's a neat look, but it doesn't, it does not, it doesn't smell good.

Ben:

so, you know, Australia, the thing that just shocks me is the, uh, Australia should be a much more wealthy nation than it is if the resources were utilized in, you know, I,

Ben Australia:

I, yeah, so

Gene:

China takes over, they'll know what to do with all your resources.

Ben:

yeah,

Ben Australia:

so, so what, well, boy, yeah, I have a lot to say about this.

Gene:

I bet you too.

Ben Australia:

Uh, well, no, the, the resources thing. So we, yeah, definitely. Um, and if you are aware of Norway and the sovereign wealth funds that they have, um, yeah. And you know, how they built that up, right. By basically taxing the, the exports they have. And it's now what the world's first trillion dollar, uh, sovereign wealth fund. Um, we, we could have done a lot better than that, basically. If, if the governments, uh, if the, the, not just one side of politics, if all sides of politics had of had, have done it a little bit better, uh, because what's something, something like 40% of the entire world's, uh, iron ore has come out of Australia since the nineties or eighties or something like that. Uh, 60, 60% of China's, uh, entire iron also supply comes out of Australia and they keep talking about, you know, and there was this little political stature stash recently, which I was like, Ooh, we're going to borrow a few guys anymore. And they couldn't, they couldn't last a couple more than a couple of months with that, because there literally is not iron or anywhere on the planet that can supply it, like we can supply it.

Gene:

Well, not now there will be.

Ben:

and the coal and everything

Ben Australia:

yup. Yup,

Ben:

know, and uranium alone.

Ben Australia:

Yep. Uranium like, jeez, you know, the, the, what, you know, and the, um, the, the Howard government, uh, which was in the nineties and early two thousands, you know, they, there, they set up the. Uh, the, the, they fabricated the idea that, that the liberal party, which, which are not the liberal party, they're the conservative party for anybody. Who's not familiar with Australian politics. So the liberal party, um, you know, we're in power during the mining boom, when the mining boom started. Uh, and instead of, you know, uh, starting up a sovereign wealth funds, you know, they, all they did was just spent all the cash. Uh, and what's more, um, you know, and, uh, I know that back in the nineties, um, if you guys heard of the, the NBN, is that, is that a term that you're familiar with? So,

Gene:

I have that.

Ben Australia:

yeah, so the NBN, uh, national broadband network, um, is so recently in the, in since 2010 or something or other, um, basically building fiber to the home for 98% of the population, Australia was a thing. Uh, it was going to be the, the labor government was going to do it, but they lost power halfway through, or not even halfway, like one third of the way through the building of this project, you know? Um, and the liberal party, just in the hole where the superior economic managers, um, uh, said, oh, this is too expensive. We're just going to do it cheaper and make it shit. So now it's a mixture of, of, uh, copper, you know, eight ESL, uh, satellite and, um, Fixed wireless and some fiber to the fiber, to the home. So liberal government back in the nineties, you know, in the, in the same sort of thing, they were going to do fiber to the home in the nineties to 99% of the Australian population back then. Right. So it would have been just, just amazing, like you knew him. Can you imagine, like we would have had the best internet on the planet for decades that earlier, earlier than anybody else,

Gene:

that sounds,

Ben:

the, you still have to get off the continent though.

Gene:

yeah. Yeah,

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Well that's, I mean, yeah. That's, you know, we can worry about that later.

Gene:

Man. You can just hear the latency in this conversation. Holy cow.

Ben Australia:

Oh, really? That's okay. Maybe I'm just used to it. Cause I, I work with people overseas all the time, so yeah. I haven't really been able to tell, but anyway, um, yeah, so they were going to do it back then, you know, so instead of, uh, and they, they didn't do it because, um, a guy called soldier Helio, um, who was a Mexican national, who was brought on board, um, by, by John Howard to run Telstra, our one and only, uh, telecom provider back then, um, who was recommended by Bush, I think, um, at the time, you know, Hey, give this guy a job. He's pretty cool. You know, he knows about telecom. Um, so he was brought on board and they were there in the middle of, of doing the, the project planning, um, for this, this massive national broadband network. And he went, no, no, no, you don't want to do that. Um, because you know, if you set up the physical infrastructure, you're gonna have to pay to maintain it. You know, again, you're going to

Gene:

Um,

Ben Australia:

and trenches everywhere and what's more, you know, because of the Australian laws and we only have one telecom you're literally going to have to give your competitors access to it. You know, that's not how you run a good business and it's just like, wow. Okay. Right. So, yeah. And then, you know, obviously that, that harmed the, uh, the, the, uh, it, you know, world in Australia for a long time. Yeah. But going back to the point, so they, they, you know, the liberal party stuffed up that they stuffed up the, um, the, the mining. So we could have had a. We could've had a sovereign wealth fund that would have been better than Norway. Um, and then also the, the Telstra, uh, when it was privatized. So it was, it was sold to the stock market, you know, a, a shareholder, a, um, uh, an Australian taxpayer funded business was sold back to the Australian taxpayers and that billion dollars that was used, um, or however much it was sold for. I can't remember now that was used to start what we call the future fund, which was the sovereign wealth funds. But then it basically hasn't been contributed since then. So it's sort

Gene:

Billion dollars. That's like

Ben Australia:

oh, this, I mean, this is, this is in the 1990s, you know, that was a lot of money for us back then, you know? Um,

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

clarify a billion us dollars or a billion Australian dollars

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben Australia:

yeah, I think it was, I think

Gene:

they're both nothing.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Um, but this is, this is the nicest, that was a lot of money for us back then, you know, I might even, might not even be a billion dollars. I can't remember the exact figure, but that, that money from selling Telstra when it became the sovereign wealth fund, instead of the, the tax, um, you know, instead of the tax on the resources, uh, and, and because the choices of the government, you know, that, that money could have been worth a lot more if they had have done, you know, fiber to the home back then as

Gene:

well, and it was worth a lot more to somebody. Yeah.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Yeah.

Gene:

Hey Ben. So how many people live in the interior? Cause it seemed to me like most people in Australia live over by the water.

Ben Australia:

Uh, yeah, so like the three, the three major capitals. So Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, um, uh, where the you'd call the majority, I think what have we got 25 million people or something in the whole country? Um, I think Melbourne is three or 4 million. Um, Sydney is about the same. I think Brisbane is a one or two, I think. Um, you know, and there's, there's a very big, so I've, I've lived in, um, I grew up around Brisbane, um, and I've all now live around Melbourne. I have lived in right, right in the middle of Melbourne, uh, before as well. And I've got family who's in, you know, who've been in Sydney, south Australia,

Gene:

how many people in Australia total? You said

Ben Australia:

twenty-five million about

Gene:

so less than Texas.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Yeah, probably.

Gene:

That's funny.

Ben Australia:

Yup. Well, I mean, you can't actually, you know, I don't don't really compare because the 70% of Australia you can't actually live in, like, it's, it's

Gene:

Well, that's why I'm curious about like, you know, when you say you can't actually live in, I mean, you could, you just need air conditioning.

Ben Australia:

no, no, no, you, you, wow. Yeah. You, you literally couldn't couldn't live in it without a massive basically. It'd be like living on the moon. You know, you you'd be in a, in an enclosed, you know, um, structure, um,

Gene:

Yeah, that's called Arizona.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

So

Ben:

of the desert or, I mean,

Gene:

yeah, I mean,

Ben Australia:

Yeah. So it, it literally doesn't rain. It's desert there's no, you know, you, um, you can, you can watch some YouTube videos about the GaN. There's a train, uh, for all you foams out there called the GaN, um, uh, the travels from south Australia, from Adelaide to Darwin going via Alice Springs.

Gene:

yeah. I watched that, uh, Alice Springs, when you, yeah,

Ben Australia:

So you look at like, what goes past the train, you know, during this trip and it's, it's really nothing it's it's bushes that might be, might be waist high, uh, scattered around and that's pretty much it.

Gene:

I mean, that's Arizona.

Ben Australia:

yeah. Yeah. So, uh, and

Ben:

parts of Arizona, but I mean, is there not even groundwater?

Ben Australia:

uh, not in that part now. So definitely Queensland is the great artesian basin, uh, basin, which is, um, Queensland, new south Wales and Victoria, which is a massive underwater, um, you know, reserve that just never seems to run out no matter how many, um, uh, no matter how many holes we put in it. Um, but yeah, definitely the, the west Australia Northern territory in, uh, south Australia, uh, is inhospitable. Yeah. So, and, and to an extreme, because you get like, you know, 50, 50 degrees Celsius, which is 100 and 110 or something Fahrenheit. I can't do the math quite quickly in my head.

Gene:

Yeah, I think it's more than that. Uh, cause it's, it's 110 here where I live for a good

Ben Australia:

two. Yup.

Gene:

two months. Yeah.

Ben:

I

Gene:

So it is Arizona.

Ben:

degrees here today. So.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Um, yeah, and the, the extremes are also pretty, so even, even where I live here, um, which is, uh, what are we 60, 70 kilometers from, uh, from the ocean. Um, the temperature ranges that we get here are the highest that it's been, it's been 45. Um, so what's that, that is the 110 or something. And it also gets into the negatives as well. So I think yesterday morning was, uh, for three or four degrees Celsius or something like this, just huge, you know, huge swings, uh, huge extremes. So, and it's, and it gets sorta sorta worse as you get into the desert as well.

Gene:

Yeah. Well, that's definitely true when I lived in Minnesota, that definitely was the biggest temperature range I've ever been in, uh, in the winter. It could get to 40 below zero and in the summer it'd be 110.

Ben Australia:

Yup. Yup.

Gene:

So you got a 150 degrees Fahrenheit basically is the range from one peak to the other.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Yeah. So that's pretty,

Gene:

Yeah, but there's some lakes in middle of Australia that I've seen.

Ben Australia:

like air. Yes. Um, yeah, there's, there's some, but again, you, you get up, you know, have a look at a map of, of Western Australia. Like it's just, there's just nothing it's. Yeah, really. It's very harsh.

Gene:

So, but that's where are there natural resources there? Is that where you go for that?

Ben Australia:

Yeah. So we do, um, that's where all the mining happens, you know, Northern territory, south Australia, west Australia, um, where the really big mines happen at night, they have, uh, the workers are all firefighter. Uh, we call it so fly in, fly out. Uh, so they, they, you know, and, and yearn like massive amount of money there as well. Like a, an electrician can get paid $200,000 a year doing, doing those things. So it's, you know, trades people, they, one of the things that a lot of people are very amazed about with Australia is exactly how much I'll try. These people are paid. Like it's, it's pretty ridiculous. Um,

Gene:

Now is that the Australian dollars then?

Ben Australia:

yeah. Yeah. Dollar reduce.

Gene:

Okay.

Ben Australia:

Yep. So.

Ben:

I mean, it's similar to Northern Alaska, right. And the oil

Gene:

Oh yeah. Then they get paid a lot. Yeah.

Ben Australia:

Yup. Yup. So yeah, in the, and you have, um, you know, whole communities that are, that are the FIFO workers, you know, and the, you get these tiny little like shanty towns and stuff that are set up just outside the, when I say shanty towns, they're, they're pretty well built, um, and, and fairly expensive, but the, you know, they, they pop up for the existence of the mine and then just evaporate once the, once the mine, uh, is all finished.

Gene:

now why don't they just like dig a canal from the ocean

Ben Australia:

yeah. There's

Gene:

to the middle of the,

Ben Australia:

seriously, this is, this has been a, um, a suggestion a very long time ago. So the

Gene:

yeah. Ben,

Ben Australia:

yeah, the same guy who, who did the, um, uh, we have

Ben:

Environmental impact.

Ben Australia:

uh, snowy.

Ben:

why.

Gene:

ah,

Ben Australia:

Well, no, so we've done that. We've done this sort of geoengineering before, so the snowy mountain, um, hydro project, if, yeah, if anybody have you guys heard of that before? Yep. Cool. So we

Ben:

One of the, several of the, um, I think there's three power companies in Australia if memory serves,

Ben Australia:

Uh there's there's a few more now. So we privatized, um, a while ago. So, um, or the it, or each of the state governments who used to do the, the power generation they've they've privatized everything. Um,

Ben:

I'm talking transmission and distribution, but, um, we we've got my, my company has several, uh, power companies in Australia. So as clients.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Cool. So, so the same guy who designed the snowy mountain hydro project, um, did do, uh, basically the, uh, a similar sort of thing, but for Northern Queensland. So there's a, a, um, a town called Glen Innes, or might be Innisfail, I can't remember. And they've got the highest average rainfall of, uh, anywhere in Australia and basically digging a tunnel. You know, that is a massive water pipeline from, from that town, which is on the coast. And then there's this, uh, great dividing range, which is a massive mountain range that goes down the, the, uh, east coast of Australia digging a tunnel from one side to the other, and basically setting up a series of dams and irrigation stuff. Um, that would then irrigate, you know, inland Queensland and Northern Southern, Northern territory and south Australia and stuff. So it has, it has been suggested. Um, and you know, it's just, it's just a lot of work, um, you know, in the, the environmental impact, like, uh, I'm sure is going to be concerning for, for a few people, but the benefits that we get, like the actual, inland being habitable, like, geez, come on.

Ben:

Well, and the problem you also have though, is the population size, you know, and Australia has been historically pretty, pretty against immigration. You know, it's not exactly an

Ben Australia:

Uh, well,

Ben:

immigrate, to

Ben Australia:

uh, well, yeah, it's not, not an easy game. Well,

Gene:

well, it'd be a bunch of Europeans looking for a place to live soon. So

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Well,

Gene:

might be a good source of free labor or cheap labor.

Ben Australia:

yeah, we went always against immigration. Like we used to have this, this thing called, uh, the 10 pound poms. Um, so back in the 19, uh, forties and fifties, I think it cost it. You could have bought a ticket, uh, as, as a UK citizen, you could've bought a ticket to Australia for 10 pounds, which, you know, might've even, even, uh, taking into account exchange

Gene:

a one-way ticket then

Ben Australia:

There's a one way ticket. Yeah. So you could become an Australian citizen with

Gene:

that's how you ended up in prison.

Ben:

Yeah, but that you're also still part of the Commonwealth at that point.

Ben Australia:

yeah. Yeah. So it was an, it even still is now, um, you know, relatively easy for that sort of thing. And there was this thing called the white Australia policy as well. So we made it really easy for, for white people to immigrate to Australia. Um, and then that was, seemed to be, you know, like racist and unfair and, and stuff. Uh, so we basically had to, had to can that and make it equally difficult for everyone to come to Australia. Yeah. Yeah.

Gene:

Actually. I remember now this is a few years back. I want to say around 2012, I remember at south by south west Australia had a booth encouraging people to come and move to Australia. And I think that the requirement was something like you had to bring $250,000 U S money.

Ben Australia:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you, if you pay for it, I'm like, sure. So there's, there's an accelerated visa program. Um, so yeah, and we should, oh, actually, so the most popular way people come to Australia migrate to Australia is by marrying an Australian. So 30% of all Australians have married somebody from another country and brought them here. Um, you know, so I've been through this as well. I, my wife's originally from Peru, I suppose I should, you know, disclaimer, so we've done this whole like visa thing as well. Uh, and we've looked at it like, you know, cause her like everybody's parents are getting a bit on and we'd like to, to, you know, live in a, in a, um, you know, w we've got a lot more benefits here for, for the elderly. So it's obviously very inviting to, to try and get them to come over as well. Uh, but it's just, yeah. Wow. So it took like, um, yeah, even, even for her and considering that I'm basically, you know, sponsoring her to come over, it was basically still $10,000 to, to get the permanent residency. And then, um, then the citizenship and he can, and that's still took like that's taken 10 years or something. Yeah.

Gene:

Oh, wow.

Ben Australia:

can get, there's an accelerated visa program where yeah. If you just make like a cash payment of $200,000 or something like that, boom, 12 months you can be an Australian citizen. So like it's a, it's a bit of a scam, you know, obviously just trying to suck money out of, uh, you know, making sure that only rich

Gene:

Yeah, Canada's got the same thing. And a lot of people from, uh, from China are doing that. Now. They're just buying Canadian citizenships.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. I mean, of course. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't Justin Trudeau who, uh, who said the, the admired, um, candidate, uh,

Gene:

Oh, he's a big admirer. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Australia:

of Chinese simple dictatorship because it

Gene:

Um,

Ben Australia:

it just makes crushing people so much easier guys. Like, I don't know why everybody at why all governments aren't dictatorships. It's just so much easier on me.

Ben:

so let me ask you this. Um, what, what presents the Australian people after just a handful of incidents to just totally give up their rights to firearms? What, what was, what was the psychology

Ben Australia:

yeah,

Gene:

are one incident.

Ben Australia:

was one incident. Yeah. Um, and, oh boy, if you want to, if you want to go down a conspiracy therapy, um, rabbit hole, then going, talking about port Arthur, there is a, there was a whole heap of really weird stuff. All, all surrounding, uh, yeah, surrounding that. So I don't know if you guys familiar with the conspiracy angle to the, to the, um, to the port

Gene:

I'm not, no.

Ben Australia:

Oh boy.

Ben:

I'm not either. And that's part of the reason why I'm bringing it up is I am aware that there's definitely some. Some shading is there as far as you know, what happened and the response, because you know, here in the U S we've had several school shootings, we've had some similar size incidents and, you know, we haven't had the same reaction you all have. Um, there's been definitely the push for it, but I think y'all were kind of the template for what was tried here in the U S.

Ben Australia:

yeah, yeah. So, I mean, in the U S also has a, there was a lot more, you know, sort of, I remember life back when, when guns were a thing in Australia and they're, they're just, they just isn't the, they would never was the same gun culture that the America, uh, has had. And like, it just, it just hasn't been a thing, you know? So that might be a bit of a, uh, um, a

Gene:

Yeah. You think that's because there's not enough prison guards and too many prisoners are

Ben Australia:

yeah. They, they, they, everyone was just so used to not having guns, you know, like it was just, yeah. Um,

Gene:

to warrants a loud.

Ben Australia:

yeah, so, so again, John Howard that's, I talked about John Howard before and now he's, he's did a lot of stuff to ruin things. Um, but, uh, portray himself and his government as, as, you know, superior economic managers and, you know, making the best decisions and blah, blah, blah. And he actually was ruining things, you know? Um, so yeah, he, he was also responsible for the gun gun grabbing Johnny. So, um, the. The conspiracy, uh, angle. And, and you know, I'm not, I'm not saying that I, I believe any of this, but people have highlighted how weird a lot of these seems, um, over the years, uh, and you know, there was a lot of media, you know, you could never talk about any of this. And there was a lot of media blackout about any of these sort of things. So, um, number one, so there had never been a, an event like there basically wasn't really gun crime before this, there wasn't there wasn't mass shootings. Like, this is the one thing that happened. But a couple of months before this happened, the Tasmanian government, which is where port Arthur is bought a mobile morgue vehicle, right. To, to hold something like 40 bodies or something like that. Right.

Gene:

Uh, that was at 96, right.

Ben Australia:

Yes. Yeah. 96. Yep. Um, yeah. So, so why, why would you, why would you do that when something like this has never happened before, and it was completely unexpected and all that sort of thing. So, you know, there's something dodgy there. All right. Number two, Martin Bryant, the guy who, the guy who did it was, was, uh, functionally, like, um, you know, IQ of like 85 or something like that. Like he, he just, he just could not live life on his own, you know, which is where he got the guns because the family has his grandparents or something that he lived with. Hadn't had a bunch of them and, you know, that's why. Right. So, uh, you know, he, he just. Uh, should have been nowhere near intelligent enough to actually pull this off to, to the extent that he did. Right. So number three, there's there's some of the surviving witnesses say that he did, uh, that the, the gunman, uh, when doing this, uh, pulled off moves like called the Beirut triple. Right. Uh, if anybody's heard of that, which is, which is a way of disabling a vehicle, um, that's, that's very sort of, uh, special forces. So, you know, one shot to the engine, one shot to each front tire, I think is what it is. Somebody who's more of an expert at this will probably probably correct us later on. Um, you know,

Ben:

and and just to clarify, so in the United States, for instance, it is illegal to draft someone into the military with a IQ less than 85, because literally you're not even good for cannon fodder, uh, at that point. So just to, just to, just to open up and say that, you know, uh, even with training, uh, uh, uh, an individual with that level of IQ just cannot function at that level. Like they cannot do something and even in a repetitive nature, To, to that

Gene:

Ben. I can't believe you would say that. I mean, everybody knows like you tests are racist, they're biased towards white people.

Ben Australia:

yup, yup.

Ben:

you know, I, all I can say is we can get into the ICU literature and how scary it is, but, Um, you know, it's, uh,

Gene:

It's your emotional quote in that matters. Not your intelligence quotient.

Ben:

I think both matter, but regardless I, my, my point in saying this and bringing this up was just that people understand that someone with that level of IQ, no matter how much training they had would not be able to do something that complex. I mean, even, even to the point of reloading, the rifle would probably be a difficult task for

Ben Australia:

Oh, and, um, I'm going to get to that in a bit, so yeah. So put, pulling off moves, like the, the Beirut triple, um, and also talking about reloading. So he was doing a, I can't remember what you call the reload, but basically firing the magazine until the magazine is empty, but there's still one bullet left in the chamber and then reloading. Right. So you never, you never technically unarmed. Right. So that's, uh, and then

Gene:

It sounds like the guy was autistic.

Ben Australia:

yeah. Um, and then, then also, um, pulling off multiple headshots, uh, uh, from a a hundred meters. Right. And so

Gene:

Well, that's not that hard actually.

Ben Australia:

that is, well, I mean, for, for a guy with an IQ of 85 and no, no training whatsoever, right? No evidence that he's actually fired a gun at all before, before this event. Like, no,

Gene:

lots of video games maybe.

Ben Australia:

uh, I mean, in, in, not in 1996, like the, the resolution of doing wasn't that great back

Gene:

Yeah, that's true.

Ben Australia:

Yup. Yup. Um, and, and one of the, uh, I think that there's this, I can't remember if that was before quake. It might've been the

Gene:

No, 96

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Okay. Oh boy.

Ben:

the original.

Ben Australia:

uh, oh yeah. Anyway. Um, yeah, so, and

Gene:

doom was the early nineties.

Ben Australia:

the really, yeah, so, um, I mean, we're getting off a little, I remember playing doom early 1994 was a game called descent. I remember that very well because man, I sunk a lot of hours into that thing. Um, and yeah, I can't remember when quake was, but we yeah. Quake and then juke Newcomb was the other big multiplex, but anyway, I'm getting off track. So the, and the real, the real big kicker. Right. Um, so after all of that, you know, the, the, the reloading, the, you know, the accuracy staff, all of that, when, when the police turned up to his house, um, where he, you know, of course after doing this thing, you would go back to your own house and just sit at, sit on your couch and watch TV. Right. Uh, when they, when the police, uh, burst in, um, he had his hands in the air and he's going, I'm the hostage, I'm the hostage, you know, apparently. So like, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of very suspect stuff that people have pulled up

Gene:

And let me guess there's no actual video of him shooting anybody.

Ben Australia:

Nope. Um, yeah, so it's all very, very suspect. Um, and, and so I'm going back to Johnny Howard. So Johnny Howard, um, one of his, his great, um, idols or somebody who he idolized, uh, it was a guy called Menzies, Robert Menzies, who was the founder of the liberal party in Australia. Right. So, and Robert Menzies also hated gun ownership. So one of the reasons why Menzies hated gun ownership is that, that the, in the 19, uh, I think it was the 1960s. There was, it was a rumor in one country town that there was, there was going to be a meeting of a political party that was basically the communist party of Australia. Right. So, and this is, this is before the internet, you know, this is before mobile phones. This is, you know, this is a country town as well. Uh, and within, I think it was 48 hours, um, that rural town was, was flooded by a thousand people all with guns who were there to, to protest these, these damn commies. Right. And that, that absolutely terrified Menzies because that showed that, that the, the Australian people could mobilize, uh, a hell of a lot quicker and a hell of a lot better armed than what the government themselves had, uh, were, were able to do. So he started enacting laws that basically prevented, uh, militias from, from gathering.

Gene:

And this guy was a conservative.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Well, I mean, but the,

Ben:

Well, depends on your definition.

Ben Australia:

yeah, it depends on your definition because one of the tenants of the liberal party of, of Menzies, uh, liberal party back then was to have a really good social safety net. Right. So, so

Gene:

That doesn't sound like a conservative,

Ben Australia:

I mean, it's, it's yeah. Australians and conservatorship, like, you know, w where you think of Australia is, is like, um, meant to be a. A progressive nation. Right. Is that, is that the overall opinion that we're a bit of a

Gene:

well, I just think of a prison mostly, but yeah, go ahead.

Ben Australia:

so, so, um, you know, for example, we meant to be a progressive nation, but marijuana is still not legalized. It's only just barely medically used in some states, you know? Um, again, like we're not people think of us as a progressive nation, but we're actually not, you know, it's fairly conservative, but then the type of conservative, um, that we are is also, doesn't really sort of quite fit into the classical definition of conservative

Gene:

really backwards. It's like socially conservative and fiscally liberal

Ben Australia:

down, typically everything, you know, cause we're down here,

Gene:

upside down. Yeah.

Ben:

well, you know, what's interesting is that it really strikes me as the typical Australian is like, uh, the, what I would say, the blue dog Democrats in the south, right. Where they're very, they should be more on the conservative side, but for whatever reason, typically vote liberal. So anyway, I'm sorry. Continue.

Ben Australia:

yeah, no. So yeah. So Menzies, um, did this thing too to reduce, you know, he didn't want, um, gun ownership in Australia, but he had absolutely no way of, uh, of doing that. The best he could do was try to wind back, you know, militias and the ability for the Australian people to, to organize in, in some sort of.

Gene:

Um,

Ben Australia:

know, unrest resting and Johnny Howard being, um, you know, uh, being worshiping, you know, Menzies, uh, he then seemed to take that, that idea as much as, as much as possible. So he wanted to, he wanted to do it, uh, but didn't really have a reason or an excuse. And then this incredibly suspect, you know, single event happened. Um, and, and that gave him the perfect excuse to do it and hell or high water. Like there was, there was a lot of, there was a lot of protests back then. A lot of people were extremely unhappy. Um, you know, a lot of people like, you know, still, still, uh, yeah, a lot of people still unhappy about it now.

Gene:

So that I was gonna say, is there a party in Australia that is actually pushing to get gun rights back?

Ben Australia:

yeah. So, so I mean, it's, it's an aspect of, of some parties, like the national party who, who, uh, the, you know, they own the, the interior of Australia that the farming communities is owned by the national party. it's just, if you, if you get a, a seat in a, if you're a member of the national party and you get a chance to, to be in a seat, um, in a farming community, like it is just, it is just a, uh, a cakewalk, like it's just guaranteed that you're going to win.

Gene:

So then the people live in the interior, want their guns back?

Ben Australia:

yeah. Well, cause they need them because rabbits and toads and you know, like

Gene:

Yeah. Tote. Exactly.

Ben Australia:

Oh,

Gene:

That's still your baby.

Ben Australia:

So much, so much fun. Yeah.

Ben:

has there been any movement in Australia to try and move away from the parliamentary system? Because it seems to me that when you look at the major differences between the politics of the us and then Canada and Australia, it really seems like that parliamentary system is what kind of does you mean.

Ben Australia:

Well, I mean, so if. The, the only moves have been a Republican, you know, like trying to, to get rid of the queen as a, as our head of state. Uh, and again, the last moves that were were about that were during the John Howard years. Uh, and he basically set up a, you know, let's, let's discuss, let's have a national discussion about whether we should be a Republic or not any, any basically set it up to be a lose, lose proposition because the, the, the, you know, the, the, we love the queen movement was, um, actually headed by a guy called Tony Abbott, uh, who later on became, uh, possibly our worst prime minister in history. Uh, and then the, the Republican side, um, was, was headed by a guy called Malcolm Turnbull who also became a future, um, uh,

Gene:

that's right.

Ben Australia:

who also became a future national leader, um, who was, who was up there with our, with our worst, um, you know, with our worst, um, prime ministers purely for one reason, because he was the guy who ruined the NBN and that's, that's why I'm, I'm not happy with, with him in particular. And this is after he he's, um, you know, became a millionaire, uh, by, um, uh, by being involved in a business called Ozzy mail in the early days of the internet. Um, you know, so he, he made all of his money because of the internet, and then he goes later on as a politician to, to ruin the, the it infrastructure, um, in Australia. So just, yeah. Amazing, amazing stuff. So anyway, um,

Ben:

even the, Canadians ended up doing it by the eighties, you know, go on guys, you look, Canada, beat you out.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Well, um, so yeah, and then the way that the Republican, um, model that they wanted to use was basically the, the, the president or whoever the head of state was going to be, uh, would have been voted on only by the politics. Right. So, I mean,

Gene:

Mm.

Ben Australia:

kind of worse than the, than the queen being our head of state. So anybody who actually knew, you know, what, what it meant to be the Republican model, uh, or the real, you know, United States, constitutional Republican model, uh, Republic model, uh, versus the, the Commonwealth, you know, anybody who knew the differences between the various Republic models went, oh my God, this is the worst thing that we could do. We have to vote against it anyway.

Ben:

I want to push back on that because I actually disagree. Um, so the United States, just to him, because I'm, I'm, um, I grew up in a very political family and I am very into us politics and I, you know, part of my education early on that my parents made sure of, as I was reading the ratification debates on the constitution. So I understood what was going. So the constitution, when it was originally written, senators were not elected by the people they were elected by the state legislatures. Um, the presidential election, uh, originally was done by the electoral college. So wow. States may have had votes to, um, you know, uh, say, Hey, who should the electoral college vote for that sort of thing? The electoral college is not bound legally in most states to vote for who the people of the state voted for. And the electoral college is usually appointed by the individual states legislature. So, you know, it's somewhat of a misnomer that the U S president is popularly elected because they're, they're not, we do have the electoral college system. And, you know, you do have the concept of faithless electors and things like that. In some states, some states have done more to move towards a popular vote by making their electors vote, uh, for the, uh, the winner. Some have even said that they will divide the electoral votes, uh, based off of percentage of vote. So moving towards that idea of a popular vote, but the, the, the entire United States system of government, whether under our articles of Confederation or the constitution was meant to be a representative Republic, meaning it was that disambiguated, uh, that disambiguated vote, not a direct democracy.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Yeah. So understand the, the, the electoral college, um, you know, the way in which the electoral college works, uh, you know, it's not necessarily the people who are, who are doing the electing, uh, but in my, my understanding, and this is, you know, 20, 25, 30, yeah, shit, 30 approaching 30 years ago, uh, from when this debate was happening, was that the, the, it was going to be even more disconnected, uh, from, from the people voting on the politicians. And then the politicians voting on who the head of state was. So at least there were, there were some, you know, there's some states in the United States that, that, uh, have, have ratified the electoral college way. And the, there seems to be like a Q uh, at least a consistency with how the people vote and the way. Um, the state votes for who the president is, uh, that wasn't going to be the case in, in Australia. So, I mean, I

Gene:

The prime minister is the same way though. Isn't it? The prime minister is elected or selected whatever method by the legislature.

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Gene:

the party in control.

Ben Australia:

it's yeah. Uh, it's, it's sort of, yes, it's sort of, um, similar, but, but again, like it's yeah, not,

Gene:

mean, there's no popular vote for prime minute.

Ben Australia:

no, and I think even two elections ago, the, the labor party got the popular vote, but the liberal party actually won the federal election. So, um, yeah. Yeah. So that is the.

Ben:

You know, re regardless in history, there was the leading up to the American civil war. For instance, there was a lot of things with the electoral college, um, that were, you know, the reason why Abraham Lincoln was elected was a fluke of electoral college politics, to be honest with you. Um, so there's been historically some stuff, but yes, in recent history, we have moved far and far more to a direct democracy. Um, you know, part of the reason why the, where the United States with a capital S and the Senate was originally appointed by the state legislatures is because we're really supposed to be in a much looser Federation than we are. So, you know, for instance, I'm not an American, I am a Texan. Um, uh, Texas is my country. America is, you know, like saying I'm European. Um, we really are supposed to be a far more individualized set of nations. Uh, that's why it's a capital S not a small. So when we think of the Australian territories or the Canadian territories in your states, they're very, they were not set up to be as autonomous as our hours were originally, but we've lost that since the turn of the 20th century and

Gene:

Well, With Lincoln. I mean, that's really, I think the pivotal point for the loss of, of real federalism.

Ben:

Well, Lincoln, certainly, you know, did his damnedest to destroy a lot of things. And then his successor in grant during reconstruction Absolutely. destroyed the, the state's ability to be autonomous. Um, you know, the rewriting of state constitutions, and essentially the Southern states, not having any rights during the reconstruction period. Uh, it's, it's a, it's definitely a damning thing. Um, you know, the, the force bill that Lincoln passed that allowed him to raise the armies and do things. It's interesting because if Lincoln's opinion is held as sacrosanct, that the states are in rebellion, well, then he didn't have a quorum for Congress. Those he couldn't have passed this legislation. So it, he, his argument is two-sided well, the states are just in rebellion. Well, then you can't pass any laws because you don't have a quorum quorum for Congress. Oh, well, w we're going to do it anyway. Okay. So then they are a free and

Gene:

Yeah, no, he's one of the worst presidents the country's ever had and it's,

Ben:

but he is the most tyrannical president. And the fact that he is worshiped today

Gene:

it's crazy. It's insane. Yeah.

Ben:

Sorry. That's my Southern boy rant for the day.

Ben Australia:

Well, no. So, uh, yeah, I've been talking about John Howard is still, is still worshiped as a fantastic leader in, in Australia as well. Uh, because of all of these, you know, oh, he's a superior economic manager. Well, he had a

Gene:

So, do you think there's anything Australia can do to prevent China from just completely taking over? Because it seems like things are moving in that direction.

Ben Australia:

I mean, that's, you know, so yeah, I mentioned a little bit before, like Dan Andrews seems to be doing whatever he can to help trying to get inroads. He, he, you, um, you know, uh, basically signed a, a deal saying that the, the belt and road was a, was a done deal for Victoria. You know, he's, he's making international relations as a state premier. Luckily, luckily the, the liberal party can that, and basically banned any state from making international relations, um, or international agreements without the federal party being on board. Um, so I think, I think at least nowadays, at least some of the liberal party can see that, that China, you know, China bad, um, at China man, bad, no wait. That was terrible. Yeah, I was trying to make an orange man, bad joke there, but it didn't quite work out. Um, so yeah, the, the, um, you know, we've gotta be careful with how close, um, our relationship with China, uh, gets, but they're still not, not doing things as, as they're still not taking as much care. Uh, I think as, as what they should be. Um, yeah. And the, and the labor party, um, is yeah. All, all in with, um, with China being a great strategic partner, you know? Um, so can we, yeah. W what can we do from here? Jeez. Like, it's really hard. It's, it's basically to, you know, it's, it's a bit like the United States where it's not really a two party system, but it's basically a two party system.

Ben:

So, so let me ask you this, given that Australia has, I think it's somewhere around 30% of the world's uranium. Why has Australia never become a nuclear power?

Ben Australia:

oh, cause, uh, cause Greenies

Gene:

The greens. Yeah. Which is crazy.

Ben Australia:

Like,

Ben:

But I mean, I, I'm not even necessarily talking power production, even though I think that that's absolutely the way to go, but you know, why has Australia not especially given the threat of China considered nuclear arms?

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Cause, cause. Cause you got to, because you have to start out like you, can't just, you just go straight into nuclear weapons. You gotta do power generation first. Like they, they're starting to turn around that now, like this orcas, uh, thing is getting nuclear submarines, not nuclear powered, not nuclear weapons submarine. So that's, that's uh, the first step. So obviously we need the expertise to, to run and maintain these nuclear submarines that gets the expertise with, with nuclear power on shore. And then we, then we get the nuclear power plants and then we get, you know, the,

Ben:

Well, you can skip the powerplant phase and go straight to refinement.

Ben Australia:

well,

Ben:

know, the, the U S for that more war

Gene:

well, I'm not sure how Australia is allowed to become a nuclear power dude,

Ben:

Y under what international agreement we've, we've.

Gene:

the international nonproliferation treaty.

Ben:

That has been backed out of by many nations and

Gene:

fair enough. But it can still be enforced by the ones that are in it,

Ben Australia:

and enforced how by.

Gene:

uh, while the U S was doing it to Ron right now for the last decade.

Ben Australia:

we're

Gene:

That's unfortunate,

Ben:

signatory and.

Gene:

but there that's. My point, dude is the U S was, is enforcing a treaty that they were not as secondary to,

Ben Australia:

Yeah, but Australia is

Gene:

and China could enforce it with a.

Ben Australia:

Well, all we have to do is just stop selling them coal and that well, you know, that'll, that'll kind of

Gene:

Oh, that's not going to matter, dude. They just got a fresh supply of Russia and coal and gas and oil because Europe doesn't need any,

Ben Australia:

Yeah. So my, my interstate, like, okay, fine. We stopped selling them on. Or like they still, they still need us. This is, this is why they had to back down on their, on their harsh talk on us. Um, I think it was nearly a year ago or something and it, uh, the, uh, Adam and John talked about this a little while as well, uh, for a little while as well. Like they, they still need us, um, uh, at the moment a lot more than, than we need them. Like, they, they need our resources more than we need their, their dollars. So, so that's still safer for a little while. Um, yeah, the, the

Gene:

but that also paints a target on you

Ben Australia:

Oh yeah. Like, no, no, I'm, I'm fully, like, we need to, we need to try and stop doing business with China. Like I'm, I'm fully on board for that. Like there's no, um, you know what, unless the Chinese government changes their, their tact, uh, quite, quite significantly, you know, moving away from, from, you know, a full-blown dictatorship and, and, you know, the, what is it, the tiger Wolf diplomacy or whatever they call it, you know, which is, which is basically being a schoolyard bully, you know, to, to other nations. Um, yeah, so, so yeah, it's, it's definitely, we need to try and distance

Gene:

it's interesting because China themselves, they're the third largest iron ore producer in the world.

Ben Australia:

uh, iron or, or, or steel producer.

Gene:

I don't know where.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. So, but like I say, with Australia being 40% of the entire world's supply, like it's, uh, it's, there's some pretty big steps

Gene:

Yeah, well, it's a little less than that, but yeah,

Ben:

So it's interesting.

Gene:

a big number.

Ben:

You know, three of the non signatories that, uh, have nuclear weapons is, uh, India, Israel and Pakistan. So, uh, just, uh, that just is in an interesting thing. So

Gene:

So all of all three were sanctioned, even though they're not secondaries, they were sanctioned by the United States because they're con

Ben:

when has Israel been sanctioned?

Gene:

no, I don't mean sanctioned as in bad. I mean, sanctioned, isn't allowed to

Ben:

Yes,

Gene:

this a sanction, meaning the United States has blessed or anointed them.

Ben:

okay. But my point is, um, I wouldn't, I'd have to look it up. When did India and Pakistan get nukes, you know,

Gene:

Uh, it was in the eighties. I believe

Ben:

okay. So it was, pre non-polar non-proliferation um, I mean,

Gene:

it was, it was one of those deals where if either India gets it, then Pakistan has to, or if Pakistan gets it, then India has sir,

Ben:

Yeah. So

Gene:

because there's too much real risk of use there.

Ben:

we, we have a world that is dramatically shifting from when this was done right after the fall of the Soviet union. And, you know, with the rise of China, I think it would make more sense for the west to allow, Uh, states like Australia and New Zealand, certainly to step up and become nuclear powers to reign in China. Uh, I think Japan should be as well.

Ben Australia:

I don't know if I trust New Zealand with them though.

Gene:

Yeah, I don't trust Japan. Um,

Ben:

what you don't, you don't you think their, their, uh, Imperial spirit lives on.

Gene:

Yes. I think that there are people. Have you not read any Clancy books, man? I think there are people in Japan just waiting to get their hands on a new for payday back.

Ben Australia:

Oh boy.

Ben:

Yeah, but do you know, man? I think the, I think the, the Japanese, the hatred between the Japanese and the Chinese is so, ingrained. I don't know that we would be the target of that.

Ben Australia:

Hmm.

Gene:

Oh, we would be. Cause we're the only country that's ever used a nuke

Ben:

I understand that I I'm aware of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yes. Thank you. I'm aware. Um, but I, I don't know. They've been, there's been, they've been such a good ally ever since, and we did such a good job, uh, during our occupation of Japan, of, you know, rebuilding their country, uh, come on

Gene:

Um, yeah, there, there are plenty of people that did not like and continue to dislike the American it takeover of Japan.

Ben:

I mean there, uh, so my grandfather, uh, he served in Korea and then he was, uh, after he was in Korea, he was stationed in Japan for a long time during the occupation in the fifties. And, uh, You know, he, he talked about the resentment and the absolute hatred that they felt, uh, over there. And he even told stories about, you know, when you were, uh, on Liberty and going out and around in the bars that, uh, everybody had to stay in groups and be careful because if you were poor peeled off alone, that, you know, there, there were several

Gene:

Um,

Ben Australia:

Hm.

Ben:

occupying forces, you know, it's, it, it doesn't exactly breed, love, and, uh, engender, you know, warm and fuzzies.

Gene:

yeah, well, it's, I think that right now we can't roll back the time, but certainly my personal preference would be that nobody else gets the bomb.

Ben Australia:

Um, well we

Gene:

I don't care how friendly they look. You just, you know, and these Australians are just waiting to get back at England for something.

Ben Australia:

oh.

Ben:

Well, and that might be okay.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. mean, you know, like we're really gonna, uh, you know, nitpick on, on details of who, who gets bombed, who doesn't. I mean, it's, it's a hard conversation when you talk about the UK, you know? Um, yeah, definitely

Gene:

I think everybody's targeting the UK this point.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. They're not, yeah. The, the, the European union hates them

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Australia:

like everybody. Um, yeah, but definitely like, like not, you know, I'm not, I'm not advocating for Australia getting, getting nuclear weapons at all, but definitely like nuclear power, um, to, to, uh, as

Gene:

Yeah, I think everybody should have nuclear

Ben:

So I'm going to play devil's advocate here and challenge the ID.

Gene:

reactors.

Ben:

going to, I'm going to challenge the idea. So tragedy and hope, Uh, have either of y'all read tragedy and hope by Carol Quigley.

Gene:

Uh, the book for the episode. There we go.

Ben:

So it's a big tome, uh, Carol Quigley is the guy who got Clinton to be a road scholar and Carol Quigley really pushed for, you know, there not to be any more outright wars like world war two. And he basically said through the man principle and through globalization, we can re re really limit this to nothing but proxy wars. And that's kind of what we've seen since world war two.

Ben Australia:

yup.

Ben:

The problem with that

Gene:

Sex to be the proxy

Ben:

yes. Uh, and I guess that's the that's the problem is, as we see the devolution of this, I don't think mad is a real thing, right? The idea that we would bomb cities or that nuclear weapons would be used in the way they were during world

Gene:

or even nuclear weapons.

Ben:

Jean anyway, the fact is we wouldn't go in and carpet mama city today for production reduction. Right. We would very strategically target factories. So the idea that you're, you're going to have bombing campaigns like we're done in world war II, uh, whether that be a bomber or ICBM. I th I don't think is realistic. I think the, if you are going to be used in modern warfare, I think it's going to be at the tactical level. Uh, not, not the big ICBM's.

Ben Australia:

yep. Yeah. All

Gene:

Well, it depends. It depends what, why you're using them

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Ben:

I mean, if you are losing badly enough that you are going to be vengeful and wipe out a city. then yeah. You

Gene:

wipe out a city. No, you wipe out the planet.

Ben:

but who

Gene:

don't wipe out a city. I would, I would absolutely. It's the next essential question. The whole point of mutually assured destruction is mutual. So if, if I'm at a point where my existence is in question, then I'll ensure that everybody else's as well. This is a point that people don't understand about Russia. Russia is willing to finish the planet off if it gets to it and anybody that thinks that's not true, isn't it.

Ben:

I guess I have a hard time understanding. Yeah. I,

Gene:

There is no, there's a saying, there's a saying there is no earth without Russia,

Ben Australia:

Yeah. I've heard

Ben:

so if I can't have it, nobody can.

Ben Australia:

Yup. Yup.

Gene:

Yep.

Ben Australia:

So the,

Gene:

And this is why it's worked so well in the past. When we had a bipolar world to balance things out, to be able to say, well, Russia, you can't do a first strike because then there will be no more Russia. And conversely, with Russia, it's not the threat of a, of a us second strike. That is the worry. It's the threat of the U S first strike that doesn't give enough time for retaliation. And now that, that problem's been solved, at least for now, uh, with, uh, well, the hypersonic missiles coming out of submarines, then there is no first strike from the U S that can't be retaliated against.

Ben:

Hmm. Well, we'll

Gene:

And I mean, people think I'm kidding when I'm saying, make sure you have your eye then pills. And that you're, you're set to go hunting for animals to survive on because, uh, the odds today are absolutely indisputably higher than they have ever been, including the 1950s for a nuclear. Now you think that might be a couple of nukes here and there strategically. I think that's how it starts, but it does not stop.

Ben:

So, I mean, I can see as the Ukrainian situation continues to unfold, if Finland and Poland really make the push that they have said, I can see Putin setting off a strategic nuke in the Ukraine to just end the discussion.

Gene:

no, there's no reason to the whole, the whole point of being in Ukraine is to, but, uh, but you're misunderstanding the relationship between Ukraine and Russia. Uh, Ukraine, if you want to look at it from a, uh, perspective that Putin is looking at it from not the west Ukraine has been hijacked by the west and Putin is freeing it from the west.

Ben:

Fair

Gene:

He doesn't want to be killing Ukrainian people. There will be no nukes by Russia in Ukraine. There may be a new that the, the west blows up in Ukraine, but there sure as hell won't be any nukes that are blown up in Ukraine from Russia. They're targeting England right now.

Ben:

I think Finland and Polander a bigger target right now, but given

Gene:

is nothing. Finland is just hot air. There's like population of 20 people that live in Finland. It's really not.

Ben:

ah,

Gene:

is definitely making headways here. Poland, really? Once world war three,

Ben Australia:

Finland, Nike, if they joined NATO that they actually do share a fairly long border with Russia

Gene:

they do share a long border that, no, that is true. But the thing about Finland is, um, there Finland is very different from Ukraine.

Ben:

Finland also pushed back against Russia before, without being in NATO. So

Gene:

Well, what do you mean push back?

Ben Australia:

Yeah. So the winter war,

Gene:

Well, I mean, Finland used to be part of Sweden and then Finland was part of the Russia and then Finland got independence. So Finland's got a long history, but basically they're, um, uh, th they're not of much concern to Russia. Now you put nukes in Finland that certainly language changes. And that was a big concern with, uh,

Ben Australia:

but if,

Gene:

with Ukraine as well.

Ben Australia:

United States has got submarines with hypersonic, uh, new extent, like it doesn't, it doesn't sort of matter if, if nuclear in

Gene:

Well, USAA doesn't have fiber Sonic new hypersonic missiles right now. We're doing production testing on those, but we don't have them. It'll be years before we have them on submarines.

Ben:

yeah, China and Russia

Gene:

but China have, yeah, China has the most right now, and us has the longest distance Sadik. Um, so it's a. The two countries that you don't want teaming up, the us has really pushed the team up as much as possible

Ben Australia:

The massive,

Gene:

Russia. And this is another thing most, you know, Western is don't really understand is that Russia, um, has hated China since the mid 1960s in the mid 1960s. There's a big break between China and Russia, and they have not really seen eye to eye since, until now. Like they finally have something that's worth, uh, forgetting all the, the disagreements of past politicians about now. But up until this happened this year, uh, you know, one of the big things that, that is absolutely true. I I've spoken to multiple people that, uh, have worked in their Russian, uh, nuclear arms industry that Russia has historically had about a third of its nukes, trained to China throughout ever since the 1960s, because they saw China as a, as a potential threat to Russia. Uh, Europe was something that the Russia, uh, saw as a. You know, potential expansionist kind of goal, and really USSR at this point, I'm calling it Russia. But back then, obviously it was USSR. And the, the, uh, the big threat to Russia was always the United States because United States back then had a strong, uh, hatred of communism, which they do not. Now, now they have a very strong like of communism, but to the USSR, Europe was a place that you can kind of get more, um, more countries sympathetic to communist cause in the U S would never become a communist. That was just an enemy. And China may have been communists, but you can't trust them further than you can throw them. And they were likely to just say one thing and do something completely different. Uh, that changed drastically obviously with the fall of the USSR, where the positions, uh, had to get shifted very quickly. United States became a big investor and friend some. Now looking back would say the United States did a great job of raping Russian resources for pennies on the dollar, uh, including both manufacturing resources and, uh, natural resources. So there was a lot of American companies that came in to buy. Literally what they could not have bought anywhere else for as cheap as they were able to buy in Russia, both in terms of factories, in terms of grip, in terms of land. And,

Ben:

known for the real quality manufacturing base,

Gene:

uh, they are in fact, yeah, the engineering work in Russia was a, the one that put people in space first. And even to date dominates,

Ben:

you're going to argue that Russian manufacturing, tolerances and practices. I mean, they've produced, let's just look at the Russian cars, you know, but

Gene:

oh, you're talking consumer goods or military goods because the U S still uses Russian rocket engines because until Musk created something better, there was nothing better than the U S could use. And so they were still buying under contract.

Ben:

we ended our own space program and that's the problem. I mean, this is you cannot compare.

Gene:

Well, that's correct. And the Russia didn't

Ben Australia:

story behind the Russian shuttle? The Russian space shuttle though?

Gene:

oh Yeah.

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Ben:

The copy that never worked, uh,

Ben Australia:

work. It got one, it got one flight. Um, and I remember this because the, there was a, I can't remember one of these, um, Oh, I can't remember what the big deal was, but the, the software engineer, uh, was, uh, a female software engineer. She wrote, uh, it was like a hundred megabytes of code using punch cards. Uh, and this, this operating system, you know, a hundred megabytes in punch cards is a lot. And that the operating system that it's, um, that ran the thing, um, did, did an amazing job. So I think the one test flight, it went up, um, and it, they, they thought they knew the route where it was, um, uh, an unmanned flight, I believe. Um, Jean

Gene:

Yep. That was on Amanda.

Ben Australia:

So this went up for this unmanned flight, uh, and they thought they knew the route that it was going to take when it, when it came back down and landed and it actually took a completely different route. And the reason why they went and had a look at the logs, um, afterwards, uh, is that it made, you know, the, the, the code, you know, made a decision based on, uh, where the patterns, I think it was, um, the, the, it was best to not use the, the default route to come in, um, on a, on a different angle, different trajectory, and then hit the same, hit the same landing pad. Like I think it came from, uh, the, the north instead of the south or, or something or other, so, yeah, I can't remember the exact details, but it was like, it was an amazing achievement. Um, it was going to be bigger. It was bigger than the, than the American shuttle, um, the American shuttles. Um, it's just that the Soviet union collapsed at the, at the

Gene:

Yeah, exactly. There were two factors that, that were the downfall of the brand. One was the, the lack of funding due to the bankruptcy of the USSR, which was very well orchestrated by Ronald Reagan. I gave him a lot of credit for, uh, for making the Soviet union collapsed by effectively, bankrupting it by, by creating an image of what the us was doing, whether real or not with star wars, for which the USSR was spending a bunch of money, trying to create technologies to prevent from happening.

Ben:

But so why did the USSR, especially in the sixties, you know, after the success of the Saturn five and the moon landing, why did the USSR never follow up with that?

Gene:

Yeah. So there's actually YouTube videos that talk about those exact things, where they interview these, you know, 80 year old dudes that were young back then and working in the program. So that's pretty, pretty interesting stuff. Um, most of it has to do with politics and that's w there was no money given for being second. There, there were programs designed for all this. There was a, uh, there was a moon landing program. There was a, uh, even the Mars landing program that were designed in the USSR. But, um, you know, the, uh, the, the funding very often was discretionary at the whim of politicians. And I don't care what country you're in. Politicians change their minds faster than, you know, I could use a sexist joke here, but you know what I mean? It happens quickly. And so when you have a program that is going to take four to five years to build out, and obviously you're not getting the full funding day one, you're kind of at the mercy of the politicians trying to convince them that this is still worth going. Meanwhile, there's somebody else that's competing for that funds for that, for that money, uh, in a totally different program. So, uh, you know, I totally agree with you. Like Russian cars were total crap. Most Russian manufacturing for consumer goods was absolute crap, but that's because all the good engineers, all the good designers were working on government, military product.

Ben:

You know, I, I think there's a, my, my point is I don't know that, um, Russian manufacturing in general was all that big of a prize was what I was getting at there, Jean, but you know, the, some of the Russian achievements, uh, the first problem, Venus, et cetera, you know, there was definitely some pretty cool stuff there. Um,

Gene:

Well, and we're coming up to victory day where Russian manufacturing, one world war II, Russia at the peak. And I'm probably often the exact number, but it's in the same in the general vicinity of ad, the peak of production. Russia was manufacturing around a thousand tanks a day. They were crappier tanks than the Germans had. They were smaller. They had a fewer crew, but there were so many of them that were being manufactured and they were able to run in cold climate conditions, unlike the Panzers and the tigers.

Ben Australia:

Yeah, it wasn't the, the designer of the, um, uh, of that tablet, the T 34, was it, um, the designer of that tank like drove, uh, his, his pre production model, uh, halfway across Russia to, to demonstrate it for the Russian government. Uh, and I think if I

Gene:

Yeah, I've heard that.

Ben Australia:

If I think if I remember the story correctly, like the, in the tank performed, performed flawlessly across that whole, that whole big trip. Uh, unfortunately the guy died of pneumonia because of the trip afterwards though. So you can see, you know, the, the tank was, was fast earlier than the, than a human being. And in that case,

Ben:

Well, it's astonishing to me that, uh, Germany fell victim to the same thing. Napoleon did.

Ben Australia:

yeah, the winter,

Gene:

The weather.

Ben Australia:

yeah. You can't win a winter war in Russia. Like geez. Some of the, some of the amazing tactical, uh, failures of, of Germany and that time is just, it's just unbeliev.

Gene:

Well, as it comes to two things, technology, certainly one, but the other one is logistics because most countries assume a certain level of civility towards logistics. Like there's roads there's. If you're occupying a place, you could use their railroads. Uh, but, uh, Russia always had a, uh, a burned ground policy. So if you're retreating, you destroy everything, you don't save it for when you get the land, the back you destroy infrastructure, you destroy from land. You leave nothing to the enemy moving towards you.

Ben:

Which is pretty harsh on your own citizenry,

Gene:

extremely harsh. And this is this counts. The Russia has a long history. I kind of make fun of Australia, right. For being prisoners. But Russians were serfs, which effectively is just slaves for the vast majority of the history of Russia. And, uh, the, the whole, uh, you know, country comes from Eric Roos, who is a Viking that had conquered the Russian people and was so beloved by the people he conquered that they, uh, they, you know, effectively wanted him to be king over them, uh, to be a Tsar, the word Slavic or Slav again comes from the Viking word for slave. So they, they saw everybody that was living in the east as simply slaves. Like, that's just how they refer to them, even though they may not have been proper slaves per se. But if you live in this part of the world to the Viking conqueror, you're a slave. Whether you know it or not, and that word is still with us, even, even now, even today. And it describes a whole region of people that includes Russia and, uh, uh, you know, a lot of other countries of Eastern Europe, there's a Slavic heritage and something that I've always kind of thought, and I've pointed us out to, uh, focuses. Um, the Russian people are closer in temperament now forget about the technology they use. Cause we all have iPhones and things like that. But in terms of temperament, the Russian people are a lot closer to the, uh, probably I'd say the Americans of the, uh, of the early 19th or yeah, early 19th century. So the, the early 18 hundreds people that have only been really out of slavery for less than a hundred years, people that really understand and value, what kind of sacrifices need to be made to move ahead? People that haven't gotten fat and lazy.

Ben:

Well people that were under a dictatorship under the czar for a

Gene:

And then the dictatorship on their campus. Exactly. Yeah. And that dictatorship was in some ways, much more cruel to the people than what was happening on their desires. So the country was involved in both world wars and it lost a lot of people in both world wars and. There's a lot of, um, a lot of patriotism and nationalism that exists even after the massive brutality that happened under the communist rule. And by, uh, I think by changing the, the, the name of the country, right. Used to be the USSR. And then, I mean, Russia was part of the USSR, but now it's just Russia. I think people think back to Russia as a continuation of what was the Russian empire and not so much as the USSR, the USSR was sort of a dark spot on the history of Russia to the modern Russian, but nobody thinks that their country sucks contrary to what us tries to portray there. Aren't millions of Russians waiting in the wings to get rid of Putin.

Ben:

Well, I think that's something that has been highlighted, uh, here recently, and even with the world economic forum and everybody making moves to deglobalize because I think there's been a realization. You know, uh, national identity does matter, um, that people are proud of their national identity and that merely wiping that away through globalism isn't as effective as they might've otherwise thought. And now with the great reset and this, uh, controlled meltdown of the west, they're trying to, uh, you know, try and control a, the fourth turning as we've talked about before and really guide It in the way they want, um, whether or not there'll be successful in that is another story.

Ben Australia:

It is there also a realization on their part that they, they thought that the population was going, even though places like New Zealand, Australia, Canada were ended up being very submissive to, you know, to, to all of these stupid things that they wanted to do, mass jabs, whatever. But there was, there's a huge section of the population in the world that is not nowhere near as compliant as what they thought, you know, United States, Italy, Germany, while, while they're not, while they're not, um, uh,

Gene:

There there's a lot of very interesting things like that. If you look at the COVID because, uh, for Putin being called a dictator by the Western media all the time, and I mean, frankly, you guys have been in office for, you know, 20 plus years, so it's hard to argue,

Ben Australia:

he is,

Gene:

but, but as far as COVID is concerned, um, he also along with rolling out the vaccine that was developed in Russia, uh, also issued a statement saying that no Russian citizen may be forced to take this under duress. Everybody should take it. He's taken it, but nobody is allowed to be forced to take

Ben Australia:

Yup. And definitely

Gene:

This is what a dictator is saying. Hello?

Ben Australia:

And, and, and definitely a lot of the footage coming out of, of Melbourne and the protests and things are, it is literally exactly what you see in, in dictatorships. Like it's just, just, uh, um, staggered, staggered, but that, that has happened in, in my country. Like absolutely staggered.

Ben:

Ben. Have you ever read much iron Rand?

Ben Australia:

Uh, yes. Jeez.

Ben:

ever read, Uh, we, the living,

Ben Australia:

Uh, no, I'm pretty much I Atlas shrugged, so yeah. Read the book, watch the movies.

Ben:

Yeah. I'm a big fan of Atlas shrug and the fountain head and, uh, and Anthem. Uh I've.

Gene:

Yeah. Anthem's great.

Ben:

But um, if you ever get a chance to read we, the living, it, it talks about life in the USSR from her point of view, which I think is pretty interesting, even though it's her first English language book. So it's a little rough to read. Um, it's worth it.

Gene:

Um,

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Okay. I'm just writing it on my to read list now. Alright cool.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

Yeah. That's our second book for the episode. So every episode of Ben, who is an avid reader, a lot more so than I am, I listen to stuff and mostly science fiction these days, Ben always has great suggestions for books, for people to read.

Ben:

Yeah. I, I, I just grew up reading and I find it extremely valuable, so, you know, Hey,

Ben Australia:

Yes. Uh, definitely, uh, try to try to be a bit of a reader. Don't get too to do it as much as I used to or would like, uh, yeah, so really appreciate the, the recommendations.

Gene:

Yep. All right guys. Well, we're coming up to two hours, so are there topics we haven't touched on that we wanted to make sure we, we do touch on. Did you have any questions about Texas? Maybe you could ask those Ben.

Ben Australia:

Uh, oh, geez. Like, I mean, when, when will, when will it be possible for, for the unjammed to, uh, to come visit? Because definitely I have a, I'm a, I'm a

Gene:

Oh, you come right now. You just have to come through Mexico.

Ben Australia:

yeah. And I'll get a free phone while I'm at it. Um,

Gene:

Yeah, exactly.

Ben Australia:

Matt massive fan of the, uh, the Texas smoker style. I have a reverse, uh, cross flow smoker, myself that I, I do brisket on regularly. So yeah, definitely getting to places like, uh, Franklin barbecue of

Gene:

like Rue brisket or RW brisket?

Ben Australia:

Uh, okay. I don't hear there's a joke there that I'm not getting

Gene:

Kangaroo. Kangaroo. Yeah. What else would you make a brisket from in Australia?

Ben Australia:

kangaroos. Terrible. Yeah.

Gene:

It really is. I've had kangaroo when I was in Australia and it is not a good tasty meat at

Ben Australia:

crocodile crocodile is fantastic.

Ben:

Yes,

Gene:

they all,

Ben:

alligator up

Gene:

yeah. They all taste like chicken man. I've I've had,

Ben:

not doing it right

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Gene:

well, I don't know,

Ben Australia:

depends like if you get, um, like a wild crocodile, they, they end

Gene:

And it tastes better.

Ben Australia:

They ended up tasting more like fish. Uh, whereas the, the capture ones, they feed them on chicken. So they, they naturally end up

Gene:

tastes like chicken,

Ben Australia:

Yeah. It's like the corn, corn fed versus grain fed, you know, like it just, yeah. Um,

Gene:

So it just to interrupt that thought, but continue with what you said before we get back to Texas in and crocodiles is, um, you know, I have to say that I liked the concept of grassfed better,

Ben Australia:

Hm.

Gene:

but I have to say I actually like the taste, the corn fed better.

Ben:

really?

Gene:

I do.

Ben:

I

Gene:

I've had them side by side on the same plates and I got, gotta hate, I hate saying it, but I actually like the taste of corn fed butter. I know it's horrible for that.

Ben Australia:

Um,

Ben:

So I think the grass fed always has a stronger beef flavor and also depends on. Subspecies a cow you're talking about, right? Because Angus

Gene:

That's true.

Ben:

Angus is just, you know, Angus isn't is not the best flavor beef out there. It's just the most popular in the U S I mean, you take a Texas Longhorn, that's grass fed and finished, and then you compare that to your grass fed and finished Angus. And it's entirely two different types of meat, a fundamentally,

Gene:

I, I, as you know, recently been, I actually prefer bison over both of those.

Ben Australia:

uh, yes, I have heard I'm a little bit behind on, on the no gender listing, but I know that they've, they've been talking about, uh, a yak recently. Do they, have they moved on to bison?

Gene:

no, no, no. I don't know if Adams has an, I know John's praising yak meat. I've never tried yak, but I, but I love bison. I buy by snow.

Ben:

Yeah. And here in the U S been, you know, I grew up on venison, whether it be elk or deer, or, you know, in wild hogs here in Texas. And, you know, there's, there's lots of meat options that we, you know, the typical American diet of beef and chicken and, you know, maybe a little bit of fish, but there are those of us that have a pretty expanded pallet to.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Yeah. So I haven't, yeah. Unfortunately I haven't really made it to the U S but definitely a lot of that, that, and fitness and, you know, the, the wild deer sort of stuff, um, went to South Africa a number of years ago and ate just about every animal I could get my hands on and yeah. Uh, lots of, lots of good choices

Gene:

even though we have more of them here in Texas and they do in South

Ben Australia:

no.

Ben:

Well, you know, that, that, that was a point I want to talk about earlier, you talked about the koala's, uh, going nearly

Gene:

we have koalas here in Texas.

Ben:

W w what's fascinating is in Texas. Uh, there are more endangered species being raised in captivity, uh, to a higher degree, you know, and when you look in Africa, even where people have been allowed to go in and hunt an elephant, for example, that may be destroying crops and so on. If you manage the species correctly, they will thrive. It's when you just make it either totally illegal or totally unmanaged where you have, uh, have that be a problem. In fact, the bison, bison, what made bison come back was private industry in the U S um, you know, farming and raising bison. Uh, and now we are getting close to, you know, having bison herds that are self-sustaining. So.

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Gene:

Well, I think we have self-sustaining uh, I know I've been in a couple of those herds in, uh, South Dakota and Wyoming.

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Ben:

I don't think the American Buffalo has outside of the Dakotas though in Wyoming. I don't think It's reached the plain states yet. So

Gene:

No, no, well, there's a lot of farmlands, but I mean, and when they have expansive areas of federal Parkland where the Buffalo roam, the Buffalo are definitely roaming,

Ben:

Absolutely.

Gene:

they're breeding, uh, and sustaining populations and increasing.

Ben:

Yes. So regardless the point is the privatization and the private utilization of wildlife can be very beneficial. So

Ben Australia:

Yeah. It's like the, the old, yes, the, the old saying that's appropriate for a lot of, uh, a lot of aspects, you know, the, everything in moderation and just, just completely, you know, are unbridled, you know, wild hunting of, of everything is not, you know, is not, is not great. So is the complete and utter banning of, of any of that sort of, uh, you know, any wild hunting is,

Gene:

Same thing with fishing.

Ben:

yeah, and I, I think the goal should be conservation, not preservation. Right.

Gene:

Exactly. That's

Ben:

and that, that That's the big difference is you're going to conserve and utilize a resource versus we're going to just not touch this. And I think, you know, in any country.

Gene:

why I have like ducks unlimited.

Ben:

I can't stand ducks unlimited,

Gene:

My

Ben:

it's like the NRA, the reason why I can't stand the NRA, Jean, same sort of thing.

Gene:

what? Bad politics.

Ben:

Extremely

Gene:

Yeah. Well, the concept's good though. You buy land so you can have more ducks to go shoot at

Ben:

Yeah. But then they also, like we were talking about last time about the steel shot, you know, requiring steel shot, uh, because the idea that we were creating an

Gene:

well, ducks unlimited isn't requiring it. The states are

Ben:

part of the law. No, that this was federal and ducks unlimited was part of the lobbying group on it.

Gene:

Brilliant to have steel shot instead of led

Ben:

Yep. And the entire idea was that there are so many damn dot Connors and everybody out there that, Uh, they're literally causing lead poisoning and which is absolutely

Gene:

well, ducks eat everything. I mean, they could certainly eat pellets of pellets on the ground.

Ben:

yes. And, but the fact of the matter is the unleaded gasoline did more to poison the world with less or leaded gasoline rather did more to poison the

Gene:

Yeah. It was good. Let it do.

Ben:

Yeah. I mean, th th the global IQ was reduced by 10 to 15 points due to let a gasoline,

Gene:

Yeah. That means everybody had an IQ of 85

Ben:

well, I, not quite, but we're we're since

Ben Australia:

get Colback. Yeah. Nice.

Gene:

callback. Exactly. He gets it. He gets a dense. Got it.

Ben:

Yeah. Anyway.

Gene:

All right, Ben, go ahead and wrap up your point about stuff you're mad at.

Ben:

No, I just, yeah. See, this is the problem with two beds. We let them figure it out

Ben Australia:

so much we're mad at know.

Gene:

Ah,

Ben:

we'll have to use the Ozzy in the text or something, but yeah, go ahead, Ben.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. No, well, I don't know. I was, uh, uh, I think a, oh, what was I last mad at? Um, no, no, it's all gone now. Yeah, I think, well, the last thing you're talking about, the, the, um, all the topics that we wanted to wrap up, um, yeah, and I think that's really the, the, the only, you know, the questions I had from, uh, from Texas is how to yeah. How to get there these days. Um, have to try and try and figure out that one. Um, it's definitely on my, on

Gene:

If you can get to Mexico, you can definitely get the Texas.

Ben:

I mean, we might have to ask, Uh, you know, how certain people are getting in, but, um, you know, unfortunately the, the travel restrictions that the Biden administration has put in there, uh, absolutely insane. In fact, I don't know if you've been tracking this Ben, but a federal judge, uh, struck down the mass mandate on planes recently

Ben Australia:

Yes. The

Ben:

the CDC, the CDC actually just renewed that mandate so that they could maintain standing in the courts to try and fight it.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. It's just the, yeah. And the, the CDC and I heard the Fowchee quiet of like, no, we can't let, we can't let courts decide health policy. We need to be in charge. I was like, wow, man, like you just just know self-awareness uh, well, I mean, he might have to have self-awareness and he realizes that as soon as people stop listening to him, that's that's it, he won't get any more TV appearances, which

Gene:

That guy should be in prison,

Ben Australia:

Oh

Ben:

Well, I mean, I, I, my wife gets mad at me and, uh, you know, uh, Adam always talks about shaved heads are coming and, uh, she gets mad at me for saying it, but, uh, I, there's a list of people who I keep repeating should be drug out in the street and shot,

Ben Australia:

Yup, yup.

Ben:

you know, don't say that,

Ben Australia:

Uh,

Ben:

you know, it's.

Ben Australia:

my, wife literally grew up in, in, you know, a dictatorship, um, what, what you would call a dictatorship. So she has, she has very firm views on, on how not cool. Uh, so much all of this, all of this stuff is so yeah, I mean, it's, it's pretty amazing to, uh, to, uh, I'm I am somewhat glad to have been alive during this period to, to witness, you know, all this sort of stuff. It's very, very 1930s, Germany, you know, perspective that, that I think we've, we've been given. Uh, but I'm also not, not particularly happy about having to have lived through, you know, all of this, this insanity, but yeah. Geez, if you ever, you know, uh, heard that, heard that saying if you ever wondered, you know, what you would have done in 1930s, Germany, like now, you know, you know, if you've been alive during this period of you've been an adult during this period, you, you, know,

Ben:

Yeah. And you know, good on you for having walked that line and been able to resist, especially given, Uh, you know, what a dictator Dan and everybody down there have really pushed so good on you, man.

Ben Australia:

a combination of, of strength and luck. So I, luckily, because I work in the, in the it world, because I'm, you know, one of these dudes named Ben named Ben, um, you know, it's, it's given me the opportunity to, to, you know, work. And luckily I was actually working remotely, like before the, the world start, started going mad as well. So yeah, it's been, um, been very lucky and, you know, I, my, my kids aren't quite in a, in school age as well, so we've, we've been able to shelter them from, uh, from a lot of the insanity, uh, as well. Cause G is the amount of psychological damage that's been done to, to kids these days is just, is just unbelievable. I think we've, um, I'm pretty sure that we've, we've ruined a generation or at least ruined them for most of their lives. You know, I don't know if anybody knows about, um, you know, uh, developmental psychology and stuff, but a lot of what happens to somebody under the age of 10 is, is really what sets them up for, uh, for the rest of their life. So, so this whole, like forcing kids under the age of 10 to, to wear masks constantly in school, like you, you just have no idea of the damage that you're doing to them.

Gene:

Well,

Ben:

Well

Gene:

I think, yes, but. That may create a whole generation of people that have bad memories of their childhood, and we'll do everything possible to prevent their children from experiencing.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. Hopefully yes. But the, the, like, you know, and again, part of my, my education in university was like, I did do, um, developmental psychology as, as one of the subjects at university. And yeah, the statistics like you get, if, if somebody is, is self-aware enough where, where you can actually look at at your own behaviors and go, right, right. This is why I feel the way about the things that, that, you know, the things that are happening in the world. If you can disconnect, you know, your, your just emotional reaction to stuff and think logically about things, you know, then you can change your behavior. You know, you, you can change the person who you are, but unfortunately that's not, you know, that's not most, that's not most people.

Ben:

well, and people. only changed for one of two reasons because they're that intro introspective and they want to, or they've hit rock bottom and they have to

Ben Australia:

Yeah.

Ben:

um, you know, Ben, one question I have for you is, you know, whether the homeschooling laws like.

Ben Australia:

Uh, yeah, so homeschooling, it does happen. It's very rare because generally we, we actually do have a very good education system. There was a, there was a study done a while ago and, and it really doesn't matter due to the consistency of, of the education system and how it's mostly pretty good. Uh, it really doesn't matter what school your kids go to. Um, the, the, you know, or what university they go to the unlike the United States where, you know, what university you go to kind of dictates how a lot of your life is going to work out, uh, because of the friends and connections and reputation of the school and whatnot. It's really not the case. Like what makes a difference to somebody's life in Australia is, is who your parents are. Are they good people, you know, rather than, you know, the, the schools that you turn up with. So, uh, yes, I have, uh, I had some friends when I was going through school, they went to, to homeschool or they were homeschooled as well. Um, you know, and they, you know, it is, it is possible and it's definitely become slightly more popular now than, than what it was, but it's still, it's still, doesn't seem to be. Maybe I'm only, you know, I think that it's very prevalent in the United States because of, uh, John. Um, but you know, it's, yeah, it doesn't seem to be as prevalent as, as United States.

Ben:

yeah. I I, I grew up, uh, homeschooled and, uh, I'm planning on homeschooling our younger two. And the main reason why is because of, um, Well, my own politics and being able to, you know, it's not from a religious standpoint or something like that, but it's wanting a deeper level of education than I think the state can and should provide. And also just the ability of the student to not necessarily move to the sets, set pace, but allow a student to, you know, let's say they're, they're very interested in history go further and deeper than they otherwise would.

Ben Australia:

Oh yes.

Gene:

I've never met somebody who is homeschooled. We didn't end the. Uh, finishing high school early or getting a really high sat act score.

Ben Australia:

yup. Yeah.

Gene:

it's just, it seems like everybody that was homeschooled has a leg up on all the other kids.

Ben:

Well, I, I think it really, I really think it's more the involvement of the parent, because I think if the parent is highly involved in the kid's education, they can go to public school and have the same results. I think it's about whether or not the parent is involved or not or not. And one of the things you have to also consider is That, you don't have parents who just don't give a shit homeschooling, right? That, that, that just doesn't happen. The type of parent that sends their kids to school and doesn't really care about what, you know, that parent, isn't the kind of parent who's going to homeschool. So I think there's a selection bias there.

Ben Australia:

Yeah. The, the, the

Gene:

Well, that's fine. I'm not ascribing a causation. I'm just noting the fact that there's a correlation

Ben Australia:

yeah, the typical, lazy parent, like the lazy option for a parent is just to send this kid to school and, you know, they can, they can deal with it there, you know? Um, whereas if you actually like care and, and we've, you know, my wife and I have been discussing, like, should we, you know, should we consider homeschooling because the world seems to be going mad, you know? But, uh, yeah, I don't think that, um, we're going to be moving soon as well. So we get out of, uh, get out of Victoria. Um, so hopefully any of that, uh, yeah, even further away from the, from the

Gene:

going into the Western territories.

Ben Australia:

Uh, no, no, it was about as far south as we can, as we can get, you know? Yup. Yup. Um,

Gene:

the gold coast.

Ben Australia:

no, I mean, yes, I love the, uh, the Australia joke that it was, we're all, we're all upside down. Yep. Um, yeah, so, but I don't think that that's, you know, um, we, we have to have to go that far as yet, but yeah, you're definitely right with the, you know, people who, who want us go home school, aren't doing it because they're lazy,

Ben:

Yeah. And you know, I, what I would say is at the very least what we're going to do is, uh, potentially in Texas, there's this concept of core where, you know, for few hours, No, no, no core. So for instance, there's public school options where you can send your kids for, you know, just basic subjects, math, English, history, and so on. And then outside of that, you add all the supplemental stuff in. So there's lots of different options. Um, you know, you have lots of accredited homeschooling options as well. And, you know, it's the U S really when I was growing up in the eighties, it was pretty uncommon. And other than very religious people that, you know, there, weren't a lot of secular homeschoolers. Uh, and that's really shifted in the nineties and early two thousands. It's really shifted to, um, a larger and larger percentage here in the U S and a lot of people who were, uh, were, or would have done a private school, you know, are also considering this. And I think when you look at the tech talk, you know, uh, the teachers on tech talk and what they have been saying, and especially with the, don't say, gay bill and Florida, and the reaction and the realization of parents of what is actually happening in the school systems and the conversations that are being had. I think it's a pretty, uh, pretty, uh, I think it's going to drive a lot more people to consider the options.

Ben Australia:

Yeah, well talking before about, you know, the, the good things that came out of the pandemic, as one, as X experts being exposed for, for being just complete frauds and then also people actually paying attention to, to what their children have been taught. So, um, yeah, it's definitely, hasn't, hasn't been as bad, um, in Australia, but yeah, the stories coming out of the United States of, of this stuff and the Tik TOK videos and, you know, libs of Tik TOK, all they're doing is shining a spotlight on, on what these people are saying. And the libs of Tik TOK are the bad ones. Like it just, just mindblowing.

Ben:

Well, and you know, here, here's the thing, the left's reaction to the quote, unquote, don't say gay bill in Florida. It's not about any driving, any one thing it's about saying, Hey, this, these sorts of discussions are not something that should be covered generically in the classroom. In fact, the bill doesn't even prevent a teacher from going up to Johnny and saying, Johnny, I noticed you're playing with something pink there and in a private conversation, having that conversation, which is absurd to me. But you know, the idea that this should, these sorts of subjects should be covered in school at all is just asinine. Um, I personally, and Jean and I have had arguments about this, but for me, I don't believe government has a role in education. I don't think it's the government's

Gene:

No, I totally agree with you on this. We didn't, we didn't have any arguments on this.

Ben:

I will leave it to people to go back and.

Gene:

We talked about drunk driving laws, where we had an argument that we had no arguments on government having no business education. You're misremembering,

Ben:

Okay, well, yeah. Yeah, I

Gene:

you're spreading disinformation. Ben,

Ben Australia:

been educated wrong on this conversation has one. Yeah.

Ben:

So I think that, uh, the disagreement there, Jean was that whether or not, you know, the government should be able to fire teachers because parent parental involvement. And my point was that we should devolve, uh, things back to the individual. Uh, you know, I think a lot of the world's

Gene:

think I literally said the government has no business being in education department. Education should not.

Ben:

100%.

Gene:

you can listen to that. That was a quote from me.

Ben:

Yeah, I'll go back and pull out a clip or

Gene:

Yeah, you do that.

Ben:

anyway, regardless. Uh, I think a lot of the problems that we're seeing in the world, regardless of what it is, is really a lack of individual responsibility. And I think if we push the individuals to be responsible and those who aren't, uh, you know, we'll have somewhat of a Darwin effect and we can move on with our lives.

Ben Australia:

Uh, no, but if it, if, if everyone's responsible for, for themselves, like what will, what will the government do? Like, there'll be nothing for them to do. We can't allow that then.

Ben:

Well, then we can start getting rid of some of the government, you know, that would be my preference is called me crazy. Abolish the FBI, abolish the ATF, uh, you know, get rid of, uh, get rid of a few things. You know, that's The other thing is that the FBI, how, how, how the hell does the FBI exist? Show me anywhere in the U S constitution where there's a federal police power does not exist.

Ben Australia:

Well, the, the, I mean the idea. Yeah. The ATF, like that's, I mean, for me looking from outside the United States, the ATF seems to be purely an anti-constitutional thing, right? Like it's

Ben:

Absolutely.

Ben Australia:

like a, a, you know, two firearms, like you're saying there's no limits on firearms. Oh. But we have to have this whole federal branch that's about limiting firearms. Like what, hang on, what the FBI, like I do understand. The need for a federal, you know, investigative, you know, thing to, to happen. Um, you know, because of, you know, the, the people crossing borders and committing crimes and all that sort of stuff. But the way in which it's evolved is just very like, oh, geez. It seems to be, you know, the, the, the J Edgar Hoover, you know, it would be loving the current, uh, FBI. And that, that seems to be the, the, not the way to go, you know,

Ben:

Yeah. The, the history of the FBI in the United States is literally the history of abuse of power. It is the first of all, it, never should have been established in at all because there is no federal policing power, the reasons why it was established and the, uh, you know, combating the mob and everything else that, you know, rose to power because of, uh, ill-advised, uh, moral laws. Um, you know, when, whenever you prohibit something you allow for organized crime to yes,

Ben Australia:

in moderation. Yeah.

Ben:

Well, and if you believe in sovereignty and the sovereignty of the individual, then who the hell has a right to tell me what I can or cannot put in my body. Um, but that's neither here nor there. But when you look at the

Gene:

a who or what?

Ben:

what I can put in my body, uh, our, who it doesn't mean, do whatever, you know, whatever, you want there June. um, but regardless, I mean, Hoover was a prime example of abuse of power. And, you know, the, the, the power he wilted was extraordinary. And I don't think the FBI has ever grown out grown out of blackmail. I think the FBI is essentially nothing but a black male organization.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben Australia:

yeah, it's with, with recent developments, it's hard to, um, I would, I would really, it would be very nice for the FBI to be a proper altruistic, you know, um, uh, non non-partisan investigative body, but it just, there is, there is, there is no evidence to support that as, as John's favorite. Say, there is no evidence to support that, that, that is currently the case at the moment. Like, geez, I really, I really wish if somebody does have any evidence that, that is the case. I wouldn't, I would love to, I would love to know about it, but had just war boy just doesn't seem to be there.

Ben:

well with that, Ben, I really appreciate you joining us, man. It's been a fun talk.

Ben Australia:

Yeah, no, it's good. I, uh, yeah. Um,

Ben:

Sorry to keep you up. So late.

Ben Australia:

Nah, nah, it's been, uh, it's been good once a little, little bit of a struggle at the beginning, but my, my massive pot of coffee has, has helped me through and I'll probably, probably won't be going back to sleep now, unfortunately, but now it's been really great. I really appreciate, um, coming on as.

Gene:

Yeah, it's been great having you on here, Ben. And, uh, I've, I've been somewhat over bend in this episode, but, uh, I I've pulled through. Yeah, right. You'll never find another one like me. All right, guys, with that, I think we're going to wrap it up. Hopefully you enjoyed this episode of surging speaks with a dude named Ben named Ben squared.