0067 Sir Gene Speaks - with Dude Named Ben (guns... lots of guns)

Gene: 0:15

Okay, There we go.

Ben: 0:17

Well, good morning, Jean.

Gene: 0:19

Good morning. How are you today? Sir. Ben Dude named.

Ben: 0:25

Well, other than, you know, the few things that have been in the news this week, I've kind of got me in a little riled up, but other

Gene: 0:31

There's been a lot of stuff in the news, which particular things.

Ben: 0:34

You know, the whole we are now following 1994 as an instruction manual to the T sort of, you know, development of in SOC as a federal agency, kinda got my attention just a little bit.

Gene: 0:48

That's right? Yes. Well, I mean, it was time.

Ben: 0:52

Indeed. If we want to control the downfall in a meaningful way, we, we had to control the language

Gene: 0:58

Yeah. Controlling the language that you control people.

Ben: 1:02

well, and he who controls the past controls the future.

Gene: 1:07

Exactly. So that's the next phase is to get rid of everybody that has a memory.

Ben: 1:12

Well, I mean, you know, the next phase is double think. So being able to hold two income in controvertible truths in your mind that disagree at the same time while not losing your mind.

Gene: 1:25

doing that. That's not a problem.

Ben: 1:27

I mean, it's just so absurd that that press release would come out, especially in light of Musk buying Twitter and everything else, which that has been covered to acknowledge them. But you have an action and that, that is the reaction and the, they think that this is a justifiable normal. No, no, there's nothing wrong here. Of course, we're going to monitor this information, which he knows a pet peeve of yours, you know, is just so absurd. I don't know how the average American. Can can, can square the circle. I mean, how can you acquiesce to this and think that this is okay to anyone who's paying any attention at all.

Gene: 2:16

Yeah, it's. I think unfortunately, The term fake news opened the door. for disinformation. It's something that while possibly true. It. Normalize this idea that. Massive amounts of the U S Are engaging in lies. And there's a reason they don't just call everything lies is because then. lies are verifiable. Disinformation is not verifiable. This

Ben: 2:47

That's nebulous. yeah. And, you know, fake news. And what Trump did there. The, the unfortunate fact was that there was a lot of it they were in, I guess your point is that instead of using fake news, what he should have done was say lies, they're lying.

Gene: 3:06

Exactly.

Ben: 3:07

And point out where they're lying and I can agree with that. But you know, that's not his style and he is, he does take the easy way out on some forms of communication.

Gene: 3:18

he is a bull in a China shop.

Ben: 3:20

Yeah. I mean, there's nothing graceful about Trump, for sure.

Gene: 3:25

No, not at all. Oh, I have seen him golf and he, he that's about as graceful as you get drunk acting.

Ben: 3:33

Really?

Gene: 3:33

Yeah. Yeah, he's a good golfer.

Ben: 3:36

Hm.

Gene: 3:37

I hear a he's

Ben: 3:38

What, what

Gene: 3:39

some of the pros Yeah.

Ben: 3:41

what'd you think he shoots on a regular day?

Gene: 3:44

Ah, I don't know. I don't know that he completes a course. often,

Ben: 3:49

Gotcha. Just go out like the ball a little bit.

Gene: 3:52

probably seen four or five different videos of him golfing. And I mean, the guy is clearly put in his, 10,000 hours of coughing.

Ben: 4:00

Yeah. Well, I mean you can, and you know, it's, it's funny because the majority of the video I've seen is of him teeing off and you know, that ING and golf, that's not the, the generally you're, you're teeing off. Your long shot is not the most skilled shot you're

Gene: 4:21

Well, he gets those holes in ones, you know? It's the Eagles.

Ben: 4:26

Well, the hole in one in Eagle are two drastically different things,

Gene: 4:30

Well,

Ben: 4:31

you know,

Gene: 4:31

saying he's a, that I'm trying to make a joke that that's what he's going for.

Ben: 4:37

I got ya.

Gene: 4:38

But no, he's a in, In most other aspects of life. I think he's definitely a ball and chain shop and languages by all means part of that.

Ben: 4:48

Well, I mean, language language matters, and it shocks me how much we have allowed a very vocal minority to control the language. You know, I must tweeted the cartoon of

Gene: 5:08

Yeah. I thought it was pretty funny.

Ben: 5:10

yeah, the three panel cartoon of the guy running left and the center shifting as a result. And what's unfortunate is

Gene: 5:21

to the center. Now, as though they've moved to the right.

Ben: 5:24

exactly. It's sadly true of our society. We have allowed a very vocal minority and I think, you know, one of the things we were talking about last time is those useful idiots. Well, those useful idiots are growing in population dramatically. And if we allow this to continue how long before, you know, a night of the long knives?

Gene: 5:46

Yeah. Well, and I. This is something that I've, I've talked to my other hosts there in about, as this idea of how small is this vocal minority, because I think it's a lot bigger than people on the right. Think it is. I think that it encompasses a much greater. Girth of the Democrat wing. than simply college students that are running

Ben: 6:11

Oh

Gene: 6:11

You know,

Ben: 6:12

yeah. As some, as someone who works for a fairly politically correct corporation I, I mean, it's easily, easily, 25, 30% of democratic voters.

Gene: 6:27

Yeah.

Ben: 6:27

it easily, it's not, I would not consider it a fringe minority. when considered as of the whole, I mean, you're talking 10, 15% of the whole us voting public, but, know, that's, that's significant you know, people don't remember, but you know, the term 3% or is around for a reason. And it, you know, 3% of the us population at the time were engaged in active conflict with the British, during the American revolution. So the fact that this minority is 10, 15% of the us voting population. I mean, that's.

Gene: 7:07

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, and the. The founders of the socialist party and in Russia that caused the revolution a hundred years ago. They. I mean, they were more than 3% bites. I don't think they represented more than about seven or 8% of the population. And they're the ones that got the government in place for the next 80 years.

Ben: 7:32

Yeah. I mean, we are at that point in time in history where a turning can occur and a fairly small minority can affect large events. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see

Gene: 7:48

office right now, effecting pretty large events.

Ben: 7:51

where's that?

Gene: 7:52

pledged 33 billion to Ukraine.

Ben: 7:54

Yeah. Half of Russia's military budget in 2021. Yeah, it is.

Gene: 8:00

Ukraine's GDP. I think if I heard the number, right, it was a a hundred. 50 million last year.

Ben: 8:09

No, that can't

Gene: 8:10

A billion billion. 150 billion last year. Yeah. But I think it was a hundred. Yeah. And hundred 50 billion. So basically. About a third of their own little list, about 25% of their GDP. It just is getting provided just by the U S this

Ben: 8:25

For free

Gene: 8:26

For free.

Ben: 8:26

here, have this,

Gene: 8:27

Yeah.

Ben: 8:28

but you know, one of the things that I haven't been tracking and maybe you have, is this just blanket aid or is it loan?

Gene: 8:38

It's Predominantly contracts, the U S military industrial contract manufacturers.

Ben: 8:44

Oh yeah, a hundred percent, but the Ukraine,

Gene: 8:47

Oh, they don't have to pay back. These are gifts.

Ben: 8:50

it is guests. Okay. That was the question.

Gene: 8:53

Yeah, I think when they go for loans, there'll be in the 150 billion

Ben: 8:58

Yeah. So that's interesting in that we're giving them this and given our current economic state and the news also this week that the U S retracted by 1.4%.

Gene: 9:10

Yeah. More Russia economy is actually growing. Now does amazing. Cause the sanctions are supposed to do the opposite.

Ben: 9:18

Well, it's not just that but adjusted for inflation. The Washington post had a story where they were saying adjusted for inflation. The retraction is only 0.4% to any, any thinking person you're going, holy shit. Inflation's that? They're right over their heads. They thought they were saying it. Could they.

Gene: 9:41

Well, and speaking of inflation, my. My favorites. Middle Eastern restaurant here in office. Well, It's more, take out the restaurant, but they have really, really good marinated shish, kebabs. Their prices just increased last week. 20%. Across the board. Every food item just went up 20%. So stuff that used to be five bucks now, like seven bucks.

Ben: 10:07

Oh, I'm not surprised. We've got, you know, we've got a pretty good little middle Eastern place here. I always like finding those little places because anyone who hasn't tried it middle Eastern food, it

Gene: 10:20

love it. Yeah. I

Ben: 10:21

Oh God, you get some good shawarma or kebabs and just, yeah.

Gene: 10:29

yeah.

Ben: 10:29

Good stuff.

Gene: 10:30

it's usually the ones I like are usually either Lebanese. Or Iranian.

Ben: 10:36

Yeah. Iraqi is pretty good too. Rocky's pretty good. So we've got we've got two restaurants in here in college station. We've got Babylon, which is owned by an Iraqi guy and it's pretty good. And then we've got Shiraz, which is owned by a Jewish Urani and family that I have known for a very, very long time. And it's absolutely excellent too. And it's very, it's interesting because you'll have the same dishes, but totally different takes on them.

Gene: 11:04

Oh yeah.

Ben: 11:05

Yeah. Yeah. And then one of my good friends, even from back in college who, the guy who taught me how to make grape leaves is Lebanese. So, yeah, it's a interesting world.

Gene: 11:17

is the lightest of middle Eastern food.

Ben: 11:20

Yeah. Yeah, You want to know something. This, this old Texas boy, I I created a, so you know, the word for great stuff. Grape leaves is DOMA. And DOMA sounds like a name to me. So I, we were putting together a family recipe book just for Christmas thing. You know, everybody's contributing recipes and I had made grape leaves instead of using hamburger or ground lamb. I used some, my venison's some, my pan sausage and anyway, I called the recipe dear Domo, but above anyway, it turned out great. Oh, excellent.

Gene: 12:01

didn't overpower the other flavors.

Ben: 12:03

No, No, no, no, So if you handle your Venice in the way I do you, you don't have a road gamey flavor anyway. So I mean, it was no stronger than like a lamb would have been or anything else by any stretch. It actually came out.

Gene: 12:17

Nice.

Ben: 12:18

definitely not traditional, definitely not, you know, your standard stuff, grape leave, but it was fun, you know, but I liked doing stuff like that. And you know, I also makes a VJ with catfish and shrimp, so,

Gene: 12:28

Yeah, catfish is another thing that usually has a very strong flavor.

Ben: 12:32

well, the catfish has also one of those fish that works fantastic. And the CVG because of the way the muscle firm's up. So, anyway, I don't know, I like cooking. It's, it's a fun thing.

Gene: 12:45

awesome.

Ben: 12:46

And I I take my redneck spin on it and it's fun.

Gene: 12:50

You're watching cooking shows.

Ben: 12:51

No, not in years now. Now out in Browns. Good eats was definitely one of my favorites. My wife is funny, so my,

Gene: 13:00

of food.

Ben: 13:01

yeah, exactly. My wife, she watches network religiously, like all the time. I'm the one.

Gene: 13:08

Hmm.

Ben: 13:09

Yeah,

Gene: 13:10

The only one that I couldn't really get into is the British cupcake show. To me, that's just not interesting. But I I've always enjoyed watching a lot of those cooking shows. Is

Ben: 13:21

the competition shows I don't really, other than like that, doesn't do it for me. Iron chef is different. Iron chef is totally different than chopped or, you know, guys, grocery game, just because of guy Fieri and his personality. He makes that show. And you know, there's a lot of what I would call dicking around in that show that makes it somewhat you know, okay. But stuff like chopped, just retarded ingredients in this super serious nature. Now. Fuck you. That's stupid guy out over there, joking around and making ridiculous things. Okay. That's hilarious. I can handle that. But yeah, no, I, anytime my wife. network, I'm typically annoyed, but it's okay.

Gene: 14:06

That's funny. Yeah. I love kicking you. I've Always. Always really been into it. And in fact for. You know, Adam's wedding, my my present sales guys was I cooked them a five course meal.

Ben: 14:19

oh, there you go. Yeah. I, I, I, I grew up with both my parents cooking and, you know, we, that was just par for the course, you know, that's what we did. And I grew up with my parents and involving me in cooking and showing me how to do things. And we were never a recipe family, you know, it was just, you learned how to cook and you waned it and you experimented and you tried different things and it worked out.

Gene: 14:48

There with you

Ben: 14:49

yeah, so.

Gene: 14:50

never followed recipes. I, I. Enjoy cooking as a form of art too much to just do it as a fill in the number.

Ben: 15:00

Yeah, exactly. So I've got a recommendation for you, especially on your all meat diet. So, do you, do you have a charcoal or pellet grill or anything?

Gene: 15:11

No, I just have a gas one.

Ben: 15:13

Oh, wow. So either way, just a recommendation. Start your stakes low and slow. Like Lola low, like 200, 2 20. And once they start getting up to temperature, let's say about one. What do you like your steak at medium rare. Rare what?

Gene: 15:31

Blue.

Ben: 15:32

Okay. well, if you like blue, then screw me in this recommendation other than this. So if you like your steak blue, then what you need to do is you need to get you some good beef. And this is a good recommendation for anyone. If you're cooking a steak to a normal temperature, like rare, medium, rare, it started low. Once it starts to get up to for rare hundred and for medium rare, one 15, take it off, let it rest and have some melted beef tallow with whatever seasoning you're putting on the steak. you've got a charcoal grill or a pellet grill or smoker or whatever, heat up the tallow in the smoke. So it's absorbing some of that flavor. And then while your steaks resting, while you get that fire ripping hot for your searing, take that melt the tallow and base the outside of the steak with it, let it rest. So you've got that fat just sitting on the outside of the steak, and then when you go to sear it and for you, you'd just be melting the tallow, you know, covering the steak. And then when you go to sear it, having that fat on that. You get amazing sear very quickly, very easily, and the mouth feel. And the flavor is just awesome. The having that added rendered fat on the outside of the steak is just, oh my God. It's amazing. You're you're basically making any steak into something similar to Yeah. exactly. Because you've got so much rendered fat and it's just a, it's a good cheat.

Gene: 17:02

Yeah, no, that's, that's a good point. So I I've got tallow in the fridge. So I can actually try to pretty quickly, but actually this brings up a good question for you. How long do you keep your Tello? Like, if you don't use it up. Do you Chuck it after a certain amount of time?

Ben: 17:17

I, know, I mean, I don't even keep it in the fridge it's

Gene: 17:22

Oh, really?

Ben: 17:23

Yeah. I mean, if it's, if it's good, I mean, this goes for lard or any other rendered.

Gene: 17:29

it like butter. So I kept it in the

Ben: 17:31

I keep better out on the, on the counter.

Gene: 17:35

That's

Ben: 17:35

Yeah, it, I mean, we use enough butter and fast enough that it's shelf stable for us. You know, it can fats and butter and things like that. Go rancid. Sure. But a you're going to know it. And there, there will not be a question if something starts to turn. But as long as you're not, as long as you're clean about it, not letting stuff in there, that's going to turn it. I mean, butter will stay shut shelf stable for a week, pretty easily. Tallow and lard and things like that. Shelf stable for six months easily, as long as there's not a contaminant

Gene: 18:15

right?

Ben: 18:16

And if there is a contaminant in there, it will turn and you will, like I said, know it, But as long as there's no contamination, You know, careful with it and all that. It's not, I've got some tallow downstairs. That's probably three or four months old. That's sitting in the pantry. That's

Gene: 18:32

Well, and something I've done quite often is I will cook. I will cook like a A high-fat steak. Like a Oh, God damn it. I'm blanking out. What's the, what, what? The

Ben: 18:43

Y

Gene: 18:43

one. Yeah. no, and That way. you know, the type of meat, but the cut. Yeah. Ribeye. Exactly. So I'll do like a ribeye. And that will leave a lot of rendered fat in the pan. And then the next, and I'll just cover the pan. leaving, leaving overnight. And then the next day. I'll cook. A low fat steak, like a yeah. And then in the leftover rendered fat. Yeah. And you could do like two, three steaks after a FA a fatty steak.

Ben: 19:16

Yeah. And it, it, totally changes the mouthfeel of the leaner steak.

Gene: 19:21

Yeah. Yeah, it does. But I will say I'm not as much of a fan of. Fatty meat as a lot of people, like I'm perfectly fine eating. A very clean cut. Filet with, you know, that was just grilled with no fat or butter or anything else It tastes good to me. One of my buddies One of my best friends. He, he can't do that. Like to him. That just does not taste a good as a steak with fat. So he'll, he'll always try and go for

Ben: 19:50

Yeah.

Gene: 19:50

a fattier cut.

Ben: 19:52

Yeah, so like, wife and kids, they, they they're the lean steak people. I'm the ribeye person. The. You know now, do I like a filet minion? Absolutely. I just prefer a ribeye. But that's me, but I also, you take, you know, Deere for example, venison and you take backstrap and you do a good. backstrap. I mean, that's about as lean as it gets

Gene: 20:14

Love it I've eaten that raw. I mean, that was good stuff, man.

Ben: 20:18

Oh, w I mean, I've done some deer tar tar. Absolutely. You, you get a good, healthy animal. It's fantastic.

Gene: 20:25

Yeah,

Ben: 20:25

actually, you know, JCD me interested in finding some yak. Uh I'm I'm I'm going to have to try this yak out.

Gene: 20:33

think I've ever had yak.

Ben: 20:35

I haven't either, but he brought it up and I started

Gene: 20:39

There's got to be acting in Texas. We have farms for

Ben: 20:43

there is yak in Texas.

Gene: 20:44

Yeah.

Ben: 20:45

I'm going to have to try This out. but it's a very lean meat, but very, very dark red. I mean, it, it looks borderline like venison.

Gene: 20:56

Yeah.

Ben: 20:56

But supposedly has a beefy flavor, not a gamey

Gene: 20:59

Hmm.

Ben: 21:00

So, I mean,

Gene: 21:01

like elk more than deer is because it's less gamey.

Ben: 21:05

Yeah. It's B it's more beefy. Absolutely. In, in, you know, a tip anyone who, this is something that I've done ever since my dad started trying this in the early nineties, we had we used to hang our deer up, you know, everybody hung their there. And one of our neighbors said out here, try this. So what we have done since is take the deer, quarter it out, you know, everything, throw a nice chest with ice and water or several days changing the water every day and adding ice. So it's just bleeding out into that water and clearing it out and it totally changes it mellows out venison to a very high.

Gene: 21:48

Hm. So it's like washed deer,

Ben: 21:51

Yeah. Yeah. You're just soaking it in water. And, but that it bleeding out it getting rid of, you know, whatever, cortisol, everything else, just not soaking into the meat versus hanging it. It's a tremendous difference.

Gene: 22:06

I mean, I wonder if, if you could just use like a like one of those mortuary pump systems that like, flushes your blood out. And, then do it with something tasty, like vinegar. You know, something that'll add a little bit of natural,

Ben: 22:21

or garlic or butter.

Gene: 22:23

That might get stuck in the vein. That's a little too much cholesterol there, buddy. But yeah, some. something. Yeah, it's tasty. There is something to. do with soy sauce. Yeah. You do it with a bunch of stuff that a lot flavored.

Ben: 22:38

I mean, I don't, I don't know if you want to use them more.

Gene: 22:42

Well, you don't use a used one. You get it brand new on Amazon.

Ben: 22:46

Well, if you go to try that gene, let

Gene: 22:48

them. I just don't know what the name is for those things.

Ben: 22:52

Yeah.

Gene: 22:52

it's like, it's got a. I think it involves like an inlet and an outlet so that it's feeding liquid in one end and then sucking liquid. up The other end. So you, plug one into an artery in the neck, and then the other one that you put into a vein in the leg or something, and then you just replace the blood

Ben: 23:09

have zero, zero knowledge of this

Gene: 23:12

Yeah.

Ben: 23:12

I'm happy to have zero knowledge of this.

Gene: 23:14

You went out sources, one of the fastest growing professions and one of the businesses are completely exempt from recession.

Ben: 23:22

Oh, absolutely.

Gene: 23:23

Yeah.

Ben: 23:23

People die and not

Gene: 23:25

And they pay money when they're dead, which is crazy to be I'm like, dude, if I'm dead, It literally does not matter what happens. You can check me in a fireplace. That's good enough.

Ben: 23:35

Yeah. What'd you get to remember those a funeral isn't for you?

Gene: 23:38

Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I kind of don't think funerals are, I dunno. I mean, It seems like a stupid from an intellectual standpoint, it's a stupid waste of money.

Ben: 23:50

Well, from an intellectual and societal standpoint. So you got to do something with it in an inappropriate manner. And then two, if you are a,

Gene: 24:02

green, my friends. So the green.

Ben: 24:04

if you are God, it's not even sir, that if you are a decent person, you are going to have people whose lives you have affected that probably are going to outlive you, and they're going to miss you, and they're going to care about you. And they're going to want to have a symbol for you at the various. And this just, you know, normal human behavior gene,

Gene: 24:28

Yeah, it's stupid. Then it's going to call it.

Ben: 24:32

right?

Gene: 24:33

you know, You want to remember somebody have fond memories of that person you want to celebrate it and have a drink. You don't need to be in a room full of people. At a party where people. Half of whom are crying and half of them who are, are like trying to calm down the ones that are crying. And then Having some company. this you're spending literally. As much as a car. On a piece of wood that will be housing. them a deadline.

Ben: 25:03

Yeah. I, you know, and I agree with you there, you know, why people spend the money that they spend on caskets and things like that is insane.

Gene: 25:12

I there like. I think that there's a lot of good traditions from the old days from either sending people off on a burning boat to just putting them on the campfire. There's no reason to bury people. There's no reason to do any of this stuff. It's just.

Ben: 25:29

Yeah. Yeah, I could, I could do a Viking funeral. That'd be fine by me.

Gene: 25:33

yeah, exactly. From a. Tradition of while we've always done it. Sandpoint. I get it. I understand why people do it. I just think it's stupid. That's just my take on it. And I think my whole family kind of the same with everybody. We all talked about it. It's like, yeah, we all want to just get cremated. No expensive shit. Just get whatever the cheap option is.

Ben: 25:53

Yeah.

Gene: 25:53

It does not matter.

Ben: 25:55

I, even, as a Christian, I have no problem with burning. You know, you cremating my body has nothing to do with that. That doesn't bug me.

Gene: 26:03

No. Well, it shouldn't as a Christian. You don't think you're your body. You are the spirit in your body.

Ben: 26:11

Well, there's some dogmatic law and one things I would say is that the Catholics, well, I don't want to piss off a lot of people off,

Gene: 26:20

Oh, come on. We do. it

Ben: 26:21

when we start getting into dogmatic law and cath Catholicism, and some of the, some of the, what I would say just to me, the main point of Christianity especially, you know, to me, Christianity and I was raised Southern Baptist, grew up in a, not actually in a non-denominational household and

Gene: 26:42

They have Southern Baptist

Ben: 26:45

Well, I lived in Idaho for 10 years. Not not. Yeah. So actually what's interesting is I grew up in Texas, moved to Idaho for 10 years, came back to Texas and the church we went to up there was actually a friend's Quaker church and Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very, very interesting. So that, that changed my dogmatic view quite a bit. And interestingly enough, it's Quaker church up there, you know, they, they do not believe in baptism by water at all, just spiritual baptism. But to me given some of my beliefs and everything else, it was something that I wanted to do as a profession of my faith and the entire church, the pastor and the entire church ended up showing up at the Clearwater river and Idaho to a. You know, the pastor's there to baptize us, even though he didn't believe in it necessarily. And the church was there to support us. And that, to me, that is why you go to a church. That's why you find a good small church that you can have a community with, that are there to love you and support you. That is what that's about. Not anything else. I refuse to go to big churches, anything over 200 people. It's just that that's the

Gene: 27:56

person.

Ben: 27:57

no, no. If I don't, if I can't know everyone in the church or damn near everyone in the church, it's too big

Gene: 28:06

Yeah.

Ben: 28:06

in my opinion, because what I'm looking for in that is a supportive family sort of environment fellowship as it were.

Gene: 28:16

Yeah, fellowships are good. as a concept. Having yeah. and I would argue that, you know, even for the the heathen left. There are, there are definitely fellowships there just without that

Ben: 28:31

Yeah. I mean, we find it all the time. It can be in

Gene: 28:35

No

Ben: 28:36

groups or we're going to same sort of thing,

Gene: 28:39

a fellowship for sure.

Ben: 28:42

a hundred percent, you know, you, you and me sitting here talking, this is that same sort of thing.

Gene: 28:48

Yeah.

Ben: 28:48

You know, and I, you and I have met once at a meet up in person

Gene: 28:55

and I, don't even remember you.

Ben: 28:56

exactly, and you. know, but what I was saying. We were developing a friendship and this friendship is, you know, nontrivial and that those are the relationships I would look for in life, whether you're religious or not, where that it takes places, materially irrelevant, this, having that sort of relationship, I guess, is what I'm

Gene: 29:20

Yeah. Yeah. It's you, you found that or you. You start a friendship on the basis of commonalities. And then eventually there are enough. Shared experiences built over time. That it's not just the commonalities and sometimes friends will find things to disagree on. And yet you still remain friends because of the shared experiences.

Ben: 29:43

Yeah, absolutely. You form that bond over time that and you know, I'm, I mean, I've got a great example of that in my life. One of my best friends, he and I met and as kids playing. And then I moved to Idaho for a long time. And then I came back to Texas and we picked back up and, you know, he and I have just, we grew up together for a long period of time. We were apart. We were in college at the same time went to the same college, bonded back, know, and he and I are just, he's one of my best friends, you know, and he, and I will go months and months and months without even saying a word to each other and then pick right back up like nothing ever happened. And it's just those sorts of human relationships that are important. And you know, what I find is looking at some of the kids these days, I don't think those sorts of relationships are being formed near as readily as they were in the past. And part of that is, I think is because they don't have very many shared experiences or at least what I would call experiences.

Gene: 30:46

Yeah. it is online. I, so this is where I would maybe disagree a little bit, I would say. They don't have. The type of shared experiences that United. Even though we grew up at a different points in time as well, but. I do think that they're having. Other types of shared experiences you and I probably didn't have, which is the online stuff. And I actually kind of have had that there's a. So I have a couple of friends that I exactly the way you described one guy I met in like seventh grade in school and we've been. friends ever since. Even though we haven't lived next to each other since college, like that was the last time we were. living close by. Moved all over the country. Both of us, I moved north south. He moves these West. But we still talk. Maybe at least once a week. I definitely would consider him a brother as much as a brother from another mother. as much as a friend and, you know, he. Like we've known each other longer than we haven't known each other. And then another guy that I met when I was 16, that's a little bit older. That was a computer guy, computer nerdy kind of geeky guy then. And he's a guy who I've, I've sold three of his businesses. I've ran one of his businesses and. He's flying out here for my birthday. Next month. So. You know, it's like a, there are relationships you build over decades. Where you're absolutely right. We can go for months without talking to each other. And then pick right back up and, you know, we. When we first met I was a high school student and he was. Just in his first job making probably 25 grand a year. And you know, now he's multi multimillionaire, so bunch of businesses. I'm not anywhere near that, but I'm, I'm comfortable enough. And You know, we still pretty much Act the same way as a, Hey let's, let's go to an arcade. Let's go play a bunch of video games, you know, stuff like that.

Ben: 32:52

Yeah. And, you know, I guess my issue with what the kids are doing these days online, you know, and I I'm going to sound like the Vorax, but you know, I, I don't think that's a real enough shared enough experience to drive home and really cement a meaningful bond personally.

Gene: 33:13

I will, say you're wrong for this reason is that neither you nor. or gamers. I, I had met a guy playing a video game in 2005. And we played in this game called Eve online.

Ben: 33:30

Yeah.

Gene: 33:31

Which really sucks you in.

Ben: 33:34

And to be clear, I was a gamer for a very long time.

Gene: 33:38

fair enough. No, we played every day together. For a long time. We stopped playing that game in 2008. We still talk. I went to his wedding six years ago. 5, 5, 6 years ago, whatever it was. you know, and after at that point, we hadn't like played video games together for many years. And even now, I mean, I w I certainly wouldn't say we talked like once a week, but. Certainly once a month. we were definitely what I would consider friends. And we'd only met for the first time. After about six years after talking together for a long time in video games.

Ben: 34:18

Yeah, but I mean, which bond is stronger and I've known people in my life. And I think that is an exception that proves the rule. Not necessarily the proof. For instance, I had teachers in high school, the brief stint. I went to public school that they met playing a video game online literally. And they ended up married, you know, the that's of an exception. I actually, I had a friend of mine in college, him and his now ex-wife, which maybe that says something, they pled they met playing gears of war, you know? Okay. I mean he literally moved across the country to meet her, which says something I guess about him, but, you know,

Gene: 34:55

common, I think. And you can make the arguments of, well, the in-person experience is always going to be stronger and I will. I will agree with that, but there's an asterisk here and that is. Only so far as the online experiences. Don't. fully envelop. you as much as they real experiences. If you go on a plant tour, guided vacation with somebody, or let's say a cruise with some. Versus playing a VR 3d game. In a virtual world where your survival depends on the other person. For the same duration of time, I will bet you dollars to donuts. That the people that were playing the video game are going to have a stronger connection than the purse. than the people that went on the cruise.

Ben: 35:48

Yeah, but what I'm talking about is growing up as kids. Me and my buddy, you know, getting in fist fights with other kids, having each other's back finding you know, explosives and not realizing in detonating a quarter stick of dynamite you know, breaking windows. I mean, so funny story his, his stepdad was yeah. Oh, well, close enough. His stepdad was a chief. of the the town. I grew up in a volunteer fire department now. And there were a lot of oil Wells where I grew up and so did put out, Oh, well, fires, literally. They had dynamite to throw in there, starve the, the, the fire of oxygen and put it out. Well, we just thought it was a fucking big image. we found this thing and we thought, oh, cool. I mean, we're seven, we're complete morons. We know what we're doing. So we lied it and we chunk it off in the field outside of his house. Boom. Knocks us over breaks. Windows were deaf for hours.

Gene: 36:54

God.

Ben: 36:55

And I mean, it was just,

Gene: 36:58

well

Ben: 36:59

just set off.

Gene: 37:00

the boom. It was probably quite a crack cause that's the thing I've

Ben: 37:03

Oh yeah,

Gene: 37:03

is. With those high explosives. It. It's not the way that Hollywood movies portray it with

Ben: 37:10

no, no, no, no.

Gene: 37:11

It it is literally a crack of a whip right

Ben: 37:15

Oh Yeah. Anyway. I mean, we, we had thrown it far enough away, but I mean, it had leveled in this hateful. It leveled about a six foot circle of hay down to mineral soil. And then another 20 foot was just absolutely knocked over. And you know, of course we luckily had run far enough away that

Gene: 37:37

Yeah,

Ben: 37:37

up hurt really other than hearing loss. But Yeah. it, it was quite an event.

Gene: 37:45

Yeah, no, that's a. You're right. Shared experiences that are dangerous, physically dangerous will have a greater impact for sure.

Ben: 37:55

I mean he and I just, we, we got in trouble together. We fought together. We, we fought each other. We, we had a lot of things that ended up. I mean, I can remember one argument. He and I had, and this, this is, this is why I'm saying that in-person experiences are more important. We must've been 5, 6, 7 years old. And he was really into the power Rangers in the day. And I was into star Trek and we had this argument

Gene: 38:22

Nerd.

Ben: 38:22

He, we had this argument and he's like, well, star, Trek's not real. And I'm like, well, power Rangers, aren't real. And anyway, we had this argument going back and forth about it and having that experience. It's something that I remember to this day. Whereas other people I interact with, I can't remember what I talked to them about last week, you know? And

Gene: 38:42

That's that's funny you say that because my buddy that I was describing that I've known since seventh grade, I, my, one of my oldest memories with him. Was actually arguing about star Trek.

Ben: 38:55

There you go.

Gene: 38:55

Yeah. And cause he was a he was one Kids that have the star Trek books. Like, the enterprise manual and. You know, it's like all the minutia and I was just going off of what I saw in the episodes. So I remember having those arguments, he also ended up back when it was being played live. He got all the next generation. Videos on tape. So I, that was, so if I ever missed an episode, I could rewatch it as house.

Ben: 39:28

Yeah. I, I am definitely a scifi guy. I I grew up on lost in space, the original series and T and G

Gene: 39:38

Okay. Lawson space, original series. What's the bad guys named doctor.

Ben: 39:43

At Smith.

Gene: 39:45

He was gay. Right.

Ben: 39:46

Yeah. I would say

Gene: 39:47

Okay. Okay. That's that? Yeah. I mean, He

Ben: 39:51

at least very, a feminine

Gene: 39:53

Yes. Yes, exactly. Like he wasn't, he was somebody you would suspect of being gay. Maybe not somebody that came out of the closet.

Ben: 40:01

In the sixties. What you would call a habitual bachelor

Gene: 40:04

Is that what. it would be called. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I, it was a little creepy that he was hanging around with the kids.

Ben: 40:11

indeed. And it's kind of weird that in the modern Netflix reboot which the movie out of the nineties, I think is underrated by the way, but totally should have got a series after that movie, but the.

Gene: 40:23

must be a Mimi Rogers fan. because you liked that movie.

Ben: 40:29

I don't even know who Mimi

Gene: 40:31

That's the chicken, the movie, the model.

Ben: 40:34

oh, no, I, I, you gotta remember my age. I'm thinking that the,

Gene: 40:40

Great. Okay. I see. Okay. Okay. You're right. Yeah. Now Mimi Rogers was she was the the first wife of Tom cruise.

Ben: 40:48

ah, gotcha. I don't track any of that. I, I know nothing, but anyway, then they Netflix reboot the Dutch message check and that's that's an interest.

Gene: 40:56

Parker,

Ben: 40:57

Yeah. she,

Gene: 40:58

hers forever.

Ben: 40:59

She did a great job portraying the duplicitous nature of that character,

Gene: 41:04

Women are better at that.

Ben: 41:06

Jean. What's your email address again?

Gene: 41:08

Jean answer Jean that com.

Ben: 41:10

There you go.

Gene: 41:10

It's true. I mean like a, every woman will agree with me soundly. She may publicly disagree, but she knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Ben: 41:19

Yeah.

Gene: 41:20

I'm not touching that with a 10 foot

Ben: 41:21

dude, after, after you posted the last episode, I went back and re-listened to certain arguments and you, you definitely let me dig a little bit of a hole. So I I'm I'm about out on that one. Okay.

Gene: 41:36

Oh, That's too funny. Yeah. What's a good thing. Your wife doesn't listen to.

Ben: 41:39

You know what it wouldn't matter. It really wouldn't she, she knows my opinions and I, if you think I'm vocal on this podcast, you know, get me at home I'll, you know, with the family and a few drinks in, and you'll really see a rant.

Gene: 41:57

AM with a few drinks in.

Ben: 42:00

Well, that's too far, then you've gone a little too far.

Gene: 42:03

like, hold on, dude. You are so fucking drunk right now. No. It was funny because

Ben: 42:08

Here's a balance.

Gene: 42:09

when we were, chatting with what's the get your buddy

Ben: 42:12

Josh.

Gene: 42:12

Yeah. Who is an avid listener? Hey, call out I would, I thought it was. Like I was literally listening to you getting progressively more drunk as time went on. While I was playing a hunting video game while we're talking. And you know, Josh is talking about history and all this stuff he's really interested in. And then you would chime in. Now, and then with a non-sequitur.

Ben: 42:36

that that was that night was a little too far. There, there are those that happen, but generally, you know, that that is the exception, not the rule. And as long as the, this is this is a pro tip. As long as that as the, the rule,

Gene: 42:52

Yeah.

Ben: 42:52

when that becomes the rule that you get into dangerous.

Gene: 42:56

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there is something to be said for winding down and relaxing like that, but I. I have found for me over many years that. The only reason that I ever drank in the past was social. I, I didn't really drink more than five times last year. Which is why I decided to do this. Experiment this year of just not drinking at all for the whole year. And we're like what a quarter of the way through. And just to put it in context. I was a bartender years, like in my twenties. And learned a whole bunch of cool drink recipes that I've always had. You know, I can make most. Most mixed drinks at home. I've probably got anywhere between 50 and 150 bottles of different things at home. Still do. They're just collecting dust right now. I've got A lot of high-end scotch whiskey. I've got fridges like wine fridges full of 30 and 40 year old ports and a other drink. I mean, I have a lot of really good stuff. But I have no interest in consuming it. And it's interesting. because I've always kind of thought I was more of a social drinker. But I think the last couple of years with Kobe, they've absolutely proven that as the case, I just have no. Like whatever you would call an anti-alcohol like, like somebody that has no deep desire to drink at all. But will drink if in the company. If people just to kind of, you know, be part of the group, I guess.

Ben: 44:35

Yeah. So it's, it's interesting because I do not have an addictive personality at all. So for instance I got into hookah in college And I smoke hookah almost every night. I'm sitting outside, enjoying my evening, winding down, but at the same time, the, when we first moved into the house and before settled into routines and everything was busy and everything else. I didn't smoke for months and never, never flinched didn't have a desire. Didn't have a, oh God, I gotta go do that. Or anything like that? Alcohol, same thing I can, you, know, just

Gene: 45:10

say, hookah, you're talking about? Like flavored.

Ben: 45:13

tobacco

Gene: 45:14

not like hash.

Ben: 45:16

Yeah, Yeah. Tobacco. So w which is totally different than smoking a cigarette in many, many different ways, but, you know, cigars pipes who go that's, that's what interests me. I've never smoked cigarettes other than at a few college parties and getting into fights. But that's neither here nor there. So I, yeah, it's one of those things. I'm not an addictive personality, but I am a habitual personality, so I will fall into routine, but when something happens to break that routine

Gene: 45:47

Yeah.

Ben: 45:47

whatever, you know, not a big deal. So.

Gene: 45:51

Yeah.

Ben: 45:52

interesting because for some people quitting drinking, quitting smoking, quitting eating a cookie can be very difficult. And it it's an interesting personality trait. It really is. And I, I guess I kind of, I'm sitting here thinking, what does that say about you? That if you are someone that has an addictive personality, I think it comes down to willpower. Really? How strong of a, how strong-willed of a person are you, if you're a strong-willed person, does that mean that you're not addictive or, you know, how does that relate? I think that'd be an interesting topic of recent.

Gene: 46:31

are two different aspects because you can, you can be either strong-willed or not strong-willed which effectively. To me, strong-willed simply means that your conscious mind is going to make a decision and then you're going to stick to it. Whereas non-addictive is that your subconscious mind? Doesn't really push you towards any decisions. So. a, I know some. Some substances are physically addictive. Like I've, I'm kind of with you, I've maybe smoked five cigarettes in my entire life. Although I will say I do like the flavor. I haven't smoked one in ages, but I remember I always liked the flavor of clove cigarettes because it's, it's, it's like sucking on a a cinnamon stick. Like, you know, it's just, that's the only flavor you get. You're not getting tobacco out of it. You're getting cinnamon. Or cloves obviously in. Which I can't believe they banned those stupid things. That's just crazy. But Cigars took a while for me to develop a flavor for, but by my late twenties, I was. Smoking and buying a lot of cigars and really get into. Figuring out what my favorites were. I was probably going through a box of cigars a month, right around

Ben: 47:51

well, I've probably got 500 plus cigars sitting in the humidor next to me here in my office. So yeah.

Gene: 47:56

Yeah, and I, I, while I may not be drinking this year, I'm definitely open to smoking cigars. I. don't

Ben: 48:02

Well,

Gene: 48:02

near that. I've probably got about a hundred here in mind.

Ben: 48:05

Well, I've got a big nightstand, nightstand size humidor, and,

Gene: 48:11

w what do you like? What's your favorite?

Ben: 48:12

I like a lot of the league of provato stuff. That's fine. In fact, I have a box of dirty rats in there from the first year that they were out.

Gene: 48:22

Are. So.

Ben: 48:24

really you don't know Liga Parvata okay. Well, Liga provato is.

Gene: 48:28

smoking cigars in the nineties up until about 2006, seven. And then occasionally after that, not with, but back then I was smoking a couple

Ben: 48:40

Do you know LFD or Pidea

Gene: 48:45

Yeah Sure.

Ben: 48:46

Okay, so Pedea the night 19. 20 eights one cigar of the year in 2003, and I still have half a box of those. So yeah, I, I usually, when I first get a box of cigars, the way I have operated for years is if I get a box of scars and I like that cigar, first of all, try a stick here or there.

Gene: 49:10

or a couple.

Ben: 49:11

Well, what I'll do is I'll that first box, if I decide, I like it, you know, by the time I'm halfway through that box, it stashed away and I'll get whatever I can. Yeah. And, and, you know, and I'll keep that. And you know, I maintain my humidor religiously, so no mold issues, no mites, none, none of that. And you know, in a year, two years or three years, I'll pick that cigar back up. But from that original box that I like and see the difference and it can be pretty, pretty, pretty drastic. Yeah.

Gene: 49:44

Oh, yeah, yeah, no, you most cigars that over sold after. I'd say the mid nineties were under aged because the consumption was so high.

Ben: 49:54

Absolutely.

Gene: 49:55

I started smoking cigars were not particularly popular. It was, you know, Like 1990. It was the, the absolute worst year for cigar sales, I think was 84. Yeah. I actually have a photo of Adam in a cigar club that I was, I've always been in the cigar clubs up until Austin and Austin. I couldn't find So I, I never joined one, but I always been in clubs so that, you know, I can. Outsource the humidor, keeping to somebody else. And just have a locker in the club. But My God, if I still have one, I will totally give it to you Cause you will appreciate it. But I don't know if I have any of these left. Best cigars. Ever made. As far as I'm concerned. We're 87 downhills.

Ben: 50:41

Hmm,

Gene: 50:42

And it's not a name. That's the year it was manufactured.

Ben: 50:45

Yeah.

Gene: 50:45

When were you born.

Ben: 50:47

86,

Gene: 50:49

And

Ben: 50:50

that personal information leaking

Gene: 50:52

Yeah, exactly. Well, You know, every episode we get a little tiny little. little tidbit and mother's maiden name birthday. Okay. Anyway. You gotta realize this whole podcast. It's just a social engineering scam. That's all it is.

Ben: 51:05

Percent. You're just developing that voice pattern. So you can deep fake me and say whatever I need to say.

Gene: 51:10

it. You think, you think you're kidding? you're not that's software we're using is the deep fake one.

Ben: 51:15

Yep.

Gene: 51:17

Anyway, these were cigars that were premium cigars at a time when cigar sales were some of the lowest. And so what you have is absolutely perfect. The backup. It was the stuff that is the top of the top. and. As demand started increasing the quality of tobacco started. Shrinking. I've got a bunch of others good cigars, but these were sort of the. The really special. Cigars. was at 87 Dunn Hills. They came in little middle tubes and so good.

Ben: 51:52

Yeah. I I've got the box of fi and rares from a few years back. I've got a lot, lots of different cigars, but legal provider. I like strong whenever we're talking alcohol cigars, tobacco. Food. I like strong flavors. That's just in my personality. So I grew up eating Cajun food, you know, for example, so spice and strong flavors, lots of garlic. That's just me. So when it comes to tobacco, I like, you know, a dark reboost or Lin sero the very dark wrapper. So part of the reason why I like Len Ceros is because you get a, some people who don't know cigar sizes and shapes affect flavor. And the way they affect flavor is because the film tobacco is typically different than the rapper tobacco. So like a land sero is a very long skinny cigar. And what you get the most of their from a flavor profile is the is the rapper tobacco? So if you. Depending on the, the rapper tobacco, you Elaine Sarah, or maybe my preferred one because of that ratio. Anyway, it's just,

Gene: 53:06

Essentially. Yeah. Cause I, I totally liked the opposite. I've always smoked, Churchill's or even bigger re-engage and. I've either double Claros or Candela's.

Ben: 53:17

yeah. I will go, my preferred is lens taro or Boosto I'll do a Churchill depending. But Yeah, I just, it's always just what I've preferred

Gene: 53:27

Yeah, well, that's all it is. It's there. There's not a right of ran around here. It's just a preference. Same with the same thing with scotch. Like, I can appreciate some of the heavily peated ones, The, my favorite scotch with jive talked about on numerous times is from a company that makes, that is famous for their very heavily peated scotches. But this. Happens to be in. A very, very light. Unpeated one. So.

Ben: 53:55

go ahead.

Gene: 53:57

No. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Ben: 53:57

was just going to say next next time I see you, I'll bring you some cigars for us to try and you know, one of the things I'll, I'll bring you is you remember kinky Friedman

Gene: 54:09

Yes. I have a

Ben: 54:10

he was re the big Richard.

Gene: 54:13

I, well, I don't know. I bought my, I bought them from him.

Ben: 54:16

Okay. Well, I have a box of his cigars as well, signed by him,

Gene: 54:20

Yes. Do you

Ben: 54:21

was running for

Gene: 54:22

with him? No. same

Ben: 54:25

I do me and me and one of my buddies anyway. Yeah. Him, him. And

Gene: 54:29

I always

Ben: 54:30

boy. Oh yeah. He's he's hilarious. Yes, ma'am

Gene: 54:33

And I like his books. I was, I actually read his books before I heard his music.

Ben: 54:37

really?

Gene: 54:39

Well, you know, I was living in Florida.

Ben: 54:41

Yeah. So it's Texas politics. So it's an interesting that you were involved at the point in time.

Gene: 54:49

Yeah. Yeah, as back, would have been in the, for sure in the nineties.

Ben: 54:55

Yeah. Well, he ran for governor in 2003, 2004. Yeah,

Gene: 55:03

but I'm talking about is fiction.

Ben: 55:06

no, Yeah, I'm, I'm talking to, I haven't read his fiction. I'm talking about this political stuff.

Gene: 55:10

the like uh, detective stories.

Ben: 55:13

Yeah.

Gene: 55:14

Yeah.

Ben: 55:15

Not my genre. So.

Gene: 55:17

Still pretty good. Well, okay, hold on. Hold on. Not your genre now, did you like. Riker's guide to the galaxy.

Ben: 55:24

Oh, yeah, of course.

Gene: 55:26

then did you not read the,

Ben: 55:29

Yeah, I did.

Gene: 55:30

Okay, so you read the holistic detective agency and

Ben: 55:34

Yeah, but that's again, there's there's there's Saifai and then there's, you know, 1920s detective, you know, that sort of stuff that just, eh, mystery novel. I mean, I read the Hardy boys as a kid. I read Nancy drew never been an Agatha Christie fan. No

Gene: 55:57

like that. to Chris. I love the characters. I love that sort of. Western Jeeves kind of, You know, British with money kind of stuff.

Ben: 56:08

Well, I mean, so, I see us Louis, I guess, fills that niche for me. So, and, you know,

Gene: 56:15

not Saifai.

Ben: 56:16

He has Saifai.

Gene: 56:17

he does. I've never

Ben: 56:18

Yeah. Yeah, he, he ha he asked him, no, no, no. He's got some Saifai in there. That hideous strength is is a conclusion to a trilogy. The space trilogy that he wrote and ransom is a, it's a, it's an allegory again, but it's, it's very good.

Gene: 56:33

the podcast right there.

Ben: 56:35

Well, I mean, if you want my favorite CS Lewis book, and it's a short and sweet one, it's the Screwtape letters.

Gene: 56:42

Okay.

Ben: 56:43

The Screwtape letters by CS Lewis is fantastic. And it's not a very long book and it's one side of a conversation and it's literally uncle Screwtape, who is a. Excuse me under secretary and hell writing to his nephew who just graduated from college, trying to attempt as first human and giving him advice. So it's a very, it's, you know, you could classify it as fantasy, but it's a very interesting take on morality and it, it, it's an interesting way of putting it and, you know, CS Lewis was in all of his writing one of the great Christian apologists, but his writing doesn't smack you over the head with it. Just like tokens. Doesn't.

Gene: 57:26

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and he is known for that for his Christian writing as well. So I just looked up kinky Friedman on Amazon thinking. Okay. What was that? A couple of books that I like to his, he has 15 books out, dude. 15 fiction books.

Ben: 57:40

Wow.

Gene: 57:41

Yeah. Right. I mean, that's beyond like tried writing. I have to, I won three technically, but really two that I wrote. So. But yeah, there were a, the ones that I read back in the I'm pretty sure it was in the nineties where they were mysteries or detective books. Yeah. Came out in 93. There we go. A grin Grenwich killing time, a case of Lonestar. And when the cat's away. So back in the early nineties, he was writing books.

Ben: 58:10

I will, I will have to read a kinky Friedman book just so I can have that shared experience with

Gene: 58:16

Yeah, it's And I, unlike you, I don't reread books. So I literally read them the last time, 25 years ago, but I definitely enjoyed them and it got me interested enough in him to check out his music and then eventually his politics

Ben: 58:30

Yeah, I, I was never really a big fan of his music even, but some of his politics Definitely in line with my way of thinking, especially in college.

Gene: 58:39

he's very politically incorrect. So I definitely liked

Ben: 58:43

Yeah. I mean his assistant little short guy, little Jew boy.

Gene: 58:48

kinky is all of about five foot seven themselves. So

Ben: 58:51

Yeah, exactly.

Gene: 58:52

Yeah.

Ben: 58:53

is what you would describe as an appropriately height

Gene: 58:56

He is an appropriately high individual. He's just trunk a little bit. And this is a old age. That's all.

Ben: 59:02

Yeah.

Gene: 59:03

But yeah, he's a. he's was a fun guy. I w Yeah, I watched him live, I think twice. And then once in a very little tiny, like 10. Person they're kind of club.

Ben: 59:16

Yeah. So music wise, what do you like

Gene: 59:20

I grew up listening to classical. And the.

Ben: 59:24

you say classical?

Gene: 59:25

Public radio. Classical

Ben: 59:27

But

Gene: 59:28

I mean, Schakowsky Mozart Beethoven who do I like from like within classical music? Let me think if I had to, it's hard to pick one. I probably.

Ben: 59:41

So for instance, I, I play the violin

Gene: 59:43

yeah.

Ben: 59:44

R did as you know, I haven't played in years, but

Gene: 59:47

Huh.

Ben: 59:47

I loved Beethoven in Chicago ski,

Gene: 59:49

Yeah. Chicago skis, I think pretty good, but also overrated. I like Mendelson. I like a lot of the. Sort of Baroque style is.

Ben: 1:00:00

Hmm.

Gene: 1:00:00

It's It's happy. it's happy. in the way that other music isn't My dad's a huge Beethoven fan. So that was on all the time. He played a keyboard and so.

Ben: 1:00:13

Yeah, Beethoven feels that happy niche for me, you know, but,

Gene: 1:00:17

no happiness in beta and it's all misery, man. What are you talking about?

Ben: 1:00:20

joy, are you kidding me?

Gene: 1:00:22

the joy is about death.

Ben: 1:00:27

It's still happy. So okay.

Gene: 1:00:31

Music has a preference. It's not

Ben: 1:00:33

Yeah, it is. It is. We actually just got a piano here just for the kids and everything. And it's an older piano but it held tune and it's kind of neat. It's from the, it's a. Will it serve from the 1930s that then was redone in the forties to mirror piano because during the forties and everything, you know, war production act and so on, they couldn't produce new ones. So they were refurbishing and changing these these pianos up and anyway actually in good shape,

Gene: 1:00:59

Hm.

Ben: 1:01:00

The keyboard first, you know, something it's this old a to hold a tune. It was pretty awesome, but whoever had it before us, it was an estate sale. They were, they were maintaining it. They were handling it correctly and actually had a lot of love in this piano. The strings have been changed obviously multiple times and things like that. So it's one of those things, you know, an old piano, if it sits and rots something like this could be just nothing, you know, not

Gene: 1:01:26

yeah, yeah.

Ben: 1:01:27

but something that has been maintained over time. It's. Different story and kind of cool, you know, and it's mahogany

Gene: 1:01:34

Hmm.

Ben: 1:01:34

has a sound because it's a full, upright piano. It has a sound that the shorter, you know, half sized pianos that are common today just don't have

Gene: 1:01:44

Yeah, I'm, I'm kind of the same way with. pianos as I am with cameras, I went digital as soon as I could.

Ben: 1:01:51

the sound is nowhere that You don't. have that deep residents.

Gene: 1:01:56

don't. It's just, I, I got over it. I grew up with a piano.

Ben: 1:02:00

because you go with a an analog mic and you want that deep sound in your mic, but

Gene: 1:02:05

make an actual digital mic, I'll be happy to switch. There's. No such thing. there are mikes

Ben: 1:02:10

be.

Gene: 1:02:10

have cheap, shitty circuits in them that convert to digital. And no, I don't like those. The USB mics generally. Suck. There are some more expensive USB mics that I have not played with. That may be very good right now. I don't know. But yeah, if, if somebody comes out with a solid state, mic OD Album right there,

Ben: 1:02:30

I'm on a USB mic right now. I'm on the mic I use for zoom. Hence why I sound nasal as hell. So

Gene: 1:02:36

a little nasally, and you listened to the last episode of unrelenting, In that show. We were talking about Mike's and Darren turned off the processing. He normally uses. And it is amazing. How much of a difference just raw, straight mic sound versus process makes. You, if you, if you listened to the episode, I think you will be amazed. At how much better he sounds after processing then with processing turned off.

Ben: 1:03:06

Well, like I told you in text yesterday, were I for going to keep doing this? I'm gonna have to get a better mic and set up some processes.

Gene: 1:03:12

I I've tried. I haven't tried an exhaustive amount. I've tried maybe four Mike's And the one that I really enjoyed, the one I'm on right now is lecture, Royce. Which is. The Ari 20. Was the standard Mike for talk radio for since the eighties? I think like for long, long, long time, the three 20 is a Kind of a younger brother of the 20. And it has a slightly different sound. And I like the sound of the three 20 for my voice better than 20. And so I'm, I've been really happy with this. Mike I've bought probably five of them over time. The first one I got I really liked that I was telling Adam about it and I ha I bought a second one for actually bought two more for the studio. I used to have, a a podcasting studio. And when Adam came over and, and played with, it and he said, oh, let me borrow this. I'll try to my house. took it back. I never got that mic back. He just kept it and then just sent me a check and I was like, yeah, this So he is that Mike for probably three or four years. And then. Literally just like a month ago or whenever he was on like dude in Dallas, what's his name? He was on that show. Yeah. Glenn Beck show. Then he, he wanted to try the mic that Beck used and now he likes that one. So I think that's the one that he's using right now is the, the mic that Glenn Beck used.

Ben: 1:04:35

Hmm. But little white dangly, Mike.

Gene: 1:04:38

Yeah. Except I think normally they come in the black and Becks were custom colored. But Darren already has. Like has that one as well, and he's played around with it. So I dunno, I'm not as much of a Mike hog. I guess. I just want to find something I like, and then I can stick with it. And rebuy the same exact thing if it ever dies versus other people that like, just. There's one guy.

Ben: 1:05:03

E

Gene: 1:05:04

That we have a knowledge and a social that has an his YouTube channel is all about testing audio gear. It's what the hell is his name is Ben throw or something? No, it's not. Bemrose it's uh, It's You know, if he would have donated money, I would have remembered his name. That's I'm going to phrase that now he's a good guy.

Ben: 1:05:23

So here you are calling out your other podcasts. We don't even take donations.

Gene: 1:05:27

we don't take donations,

Ben: 1:05:29

you're so you're, you're really pushing people to Derrick.

Gene: 1:05:31

announced that I would prefer that people not donate either because it just takes time away from the podcast. So I'm, kind of like a, you know, but like you want to send me money. There are ways to figure out how to send me money. But I don't take donations.

Ben: 1:05:44

Well, regardless, I think that, you know, everybody has their pet projects where they experiment with things audio equipment, isn't one for me, but I can see where Darren and Adam it is, you know, for me, it's, it's guns and ammo,

Gene: 1:06:00

Dan's. name my exact right.

Ben: 1:06:01

you know, playing around with that as what I do. So, but at the same time, when I, when I develop a load or find an ammunition that works, that I tend to stick with it, I don't really go out.

Gene: 1:06:14

I might as well ask you on the show. I've been watching. this YouTube channel that tests a whole bunch of different shotgun loads.

Ben: 1:06:21

Which one,

Gene: 1:06:22

Deflator, ma it's not deflated mouse. It's, it's like playing on the word deflator mouse, but it's something else. Mouse.

Ben: 1:06:30

not, not familiar with that particular channel, but go on.

Gene: 1:06:32

Anyway, they test a whole bunch of different, interesting loads, a lot of hand loads. A lot of basically. Unusual shaped. projected. And there's some really neat ones in there. And I'm coming to the realization that the ones that do the best meaning. Go through. a 24 inches of gelatin and then pass through. A Bulletproof vest after that. Those tend to be made of metals other than lead.

Ben: 1:07:02

Yep. Full Schatz,

Gene: 1:07:03

And no, not even. Not even flu shots. they're they're basically like copper slugs or aluminum slugs or something. That's just going at a crazy high speed. That isn't made of led.

Ben: 1:07:16

So it depends on a distance. And so this is coming from a hunter. I can't effing stand steel shot. I hate steel shot. And the reason why is as someone who has done some duck hunting in my life and everything else, if you're taking a shot at range, you have to have the weight. If you're talking about up-close and personal, then, then velocity, then, then velocity is fine, right? So you can have a lighter ammo. That's going faster. The problem is at range at any sort of distance. It, unless it has the mass behind it to maintain its inertia. It's not going to be, it's not going to maintain that power. So anytime you're talking about. ammunition, a lighter load, higher velocity. And then inertial. So, so kinetic energy, right? One half MV squared. So as you increase mass, you're doubling the kinetic energy, but as you increase velocity, it's it, you know, it, it is a square of that. So kinetic energy increases rapidly. The problem is connected. Energy also decreases as rapidly as something slows down the mass doesn't change there. So when you're talking about something that's lighter, it will have a, a higher initial velocity, but it will also slow down sooner. And that kinetic energy will fall off sooner because of just, just the way that works, right. One half MV squared. So

Gene: 1:08:47

Okay. So you're, now that you've bought everybody to death.

Ben: 1:08:50

That was a.

Gene: 1:08:50

the link to that video, or one of the videos from that channel it's called tow flight or mouth or tau flight or mouse. Instead of deflate or mouse. but They do. A lot of interesting handmade loads, not just hand

Ben: 1:09:04

Okay,

Gene: 1:09:05

but hand manufactured slugs. So some of these slugs are probably, you know, 50 bucks worth of manual labor.

Ben: 1:09:11

That that's scalable.

Gene: 1:09:12

It's totally not scalable, but it's it's about doing cool tests or interesting tests with unusual loads. And the number of them that were handmade have actually gone into

Ben: 1:09:23

Interesting.

Gene: 1:09:24

there is basically guys with CNC machines are cranking out interesting shapes. Sending them to these guys to test. And then these guys have a channel. that's Got one and a half million subscribers. I'm shocked. You're not one of them. And so they're, they're testing these loads. The best ones usually come from Russia, but there's a few that are also are made in this country.

Ben: 1:09:45

I, I'm not a big shotguns for me or hunting rifle. You know, that's not something I do a lot. I, I don't even own a shotgun press, so I don't do any reloading on my

Gene: 1:09:56

Well, so that was my question is like, is it any easier. Cause it seems like it would be to load shotgun because of the size difference.

Ben: 1:10:04

Well, there's the, it is. So I grew up around shotgun reloading and, you

Gene: 1:10:09

I figured you'd know.

Ben: 1:10:10

yeah. Paper shells back in the day were very different than the plastic shells we have today. It's I wouldn't say it's easier. You don't. So given the way a shotgun you know, your, your upper casing is going to be your main where item, the brass ring at the bottom is gonna last longer. So it depends on how far you take it. I don't know at this point, given the lake jargon, ammo has gone, you know, shotgun ammo hasn't gone the way other ammo has. So I don't know very

Gene: 1:10:42

of hasn't.

Ben: 1:10:44

What do you

Gene: 1:10:44

It's a super expensive.

Ben: 1:10:46

Not the way rifle ammo has not the way pistol ammo has. I mean, it's doubled, but it's not quadrupled.

Gene: 1:10:55

a lot more than that, dude. Let me look up. Well, We'll keep talking. I'll look up the current costs of shotgun emo.

Ben: 1:11:00

I mean, you may be looking at self-defense loads versus I'm looking at number six, bird shot. So

Gene: 1:11:05

You know, I'm talking about slugs, not, not Not birdshot or buckshot.

Ben: 1:11:11

yeah, so what I shoot is 90% of what I shoot out of my shotgun is number six, bird shot. You know,

Gene: 1:11:20

So you were saying the problem with steel is doesn't fly far enough. have you tried bismuth or any of the other ones? Other metals?

Ben: 1:11:27

No, I'm just one of those guys who I hunt in areas where I'm not very likely to run into a game warden and I shoot lit.

Gene: 1:11:35

Well, it's leather illegal now in Texas. I didn't

Ben: 1:11:36

Yeah. Well, for, for duck, for migratory, birds has been for a long time and that's everybody has to go, and this is why the popularity of the, you know, three and a half Magnum 12 gauge has really gone up

Gene: 1:11:49

Hmm.

Ben: 1:11:50

you really need more power behind the, it for the steel trot. Yeah. Before that, you know, hell my main shotgun for duck hunting was Remington eight 70 Wingmaster that, you know. three inch led shot. It was great. You know, I had that from the time I was a kid beat the hell out of it. And know, it was just a work horse gun for me, but. You know you can't you can't do that. when it comes to steel shot, you gotta have the, you got to go three and a half, really. If you're not counting, you know,

Gene: 1:12:23

Does the length of the barrel will make a difference. It should do as well. Right.

Ben: 1:12:26

to an extent. Sure. I mean, but most, most hunting shotguns are going to be 20 inch plus, you know, so at that point you're not getting any the velocity, isn't the thing, it's the swing, it's the you know, pattern that you're throwing out. You know, the thing on a shotgun is the shorter, the barrel, the wider, the pattern is going to be at range. So the length of the shotgun barrel for, especially for hunting, isn't about getting more velocity out of the shell because you've already expended that pretty quickly. It's about keeping that tighter pattern or the longer.

Gene: 1:12:58

Hm. Yeah. Yeah, it's I dunno. I just want to experiment with these, some of these interesting kind of loads.

Ben: 1:13:07

Well, go for it. Get ya. I mean, shotgun presses, aren't that horrible and single stage shotgun press and player

Gene: 1:13:16

Yeah, I I'm. Thinking about it.

Ben: 1:13:21

to, who hasn't played around with loading your own ammunition and think it might sound interesting to you to like gene one play with these different bullets are like me out of range and developing a load for my rifle to be as accurate as I can be and do what I want to do with it. Get the single stage press. There's nothing wrong with starting with a single stage breaths and learning. Th the good thing about a single stage is that will teach you, you will be focused. You'll be looking at that round that you're manufacturing and you're far less likely unless you're just not paying attention to the, to end up with a squib load or something dangerous. You're you're going to be hyper-focused on it. So I, I met proponent of saying, go get a cheap lead press out there, go spend 120 bucks and get a reloading setup and play around with it. If you're a shooter at all. Because I think what'll happen is you'll, you'll spend that 120 bucks. You'll develop a load. You'll see a difference in your rifle performance or you'll, you you'll see a benefit of some kind or you'll just nerd out on it and think it's cool. And then you'll go get your progressive or, you know, turret press or whatever.

Gene: 1:14:34

Yeah. Or you'll realize. Yeah, it's not for me.

Ben: 1:14:37

Yeah. And then at that point, you, you know, you spend 120 bucks versus you go get the best. Dylan seven 50 XL or something like that. And you're a thousand dollars in, you know,

Gene: 1:14:50

Yup. Yup. And I, I never was into it enough when my dad was doing it. So he ended up selling all his reloading gear instead of passing on to me.

Ben: 1:14:59

That's a shame I'm actually I'm actually, Yeah. I'm working on my office here in the next month and I'm gonna set up I got to build out a bench, but I'm it. My I've got a corner desk sits in one corner of my office and my office is 16 by 16. It's nice big space up here. And anyway, I'm gonna set up, we just moved into this house last year. I'm gonna set up my reloading press and I'm actually going to change out a few things. I'm probably going to get Dylan for my replacement. Progressive. I'm still gonna have my single stage of it. I'm going to have a couple of presses set up. I'm gonna have my gunsmithing bench, all that set up up here too. So let me nice.

Gene: 1:15:37

moved out of my. parents' house, my dad converted my old bedroom into his gun room.

Ben: 1:15:44

Yeah, yeah,

Gene: 1:15:45

crapper. there it's like, thanks dad.

Ben: 1:15:48

yeah. So,

Gene: 1:15:49

their kids rooms, you know, pristine, but Nope, Not my parents'

Ben: 1:15:53

Not mine either. I mean, my parents did for a few years and then they moved back to Texas and I mean, I haven't had a room that's mine and my parents' house since, you know, I was a teenager. So

Gene: 1:16:06

By the way you're totally full of shit. I'm looking at pricing here on the not we're talking about buckshot, not even fricking.

Ben: 1:16:12

talking buckshot, I'm talking.

Gene: 1:16:14

am talking buckshot. It's almost a buck around.

Ben: 1:16:18

Okay.

Gene: 1:16:19

that is insane. I, I bought back when I used to do a lot of shooting in the two thousands, which is where. I mean, I was spending. Thousands on ammo in the two in the early two thousands, because I was shooting a lot of ammo. Back then I was also a firearms instructor back then. But the. The prices were easily. A quarter of what they are currently not And the, for some things less than the court, like the one thing I remember is 50 rounds of nine millimeter Winchester, white box. were under 10 bucks. They were about nine 60. In Walmart. Because we were buying them by the truckload, like we were buying a shit ton of those Winchester. Nine millimeter white boxes. And that that same ammo now is, is like, 75 cents around or something crazy.

Ben: 1:17:16

I mean, I buy by the case and I, that I've, I haven't seen that big of a move, but buying 12 gauge by the case, Winchester white box birdshot.

Gene: 1:17:28

Yeah. Fe Federal, two and three quarter double odd buck shot. 250 rounds,$265. That's over a buck around.

Ben: 1:17:37

Well, then there's been some moves since last year because that,

Gene: 1:17:41

Oh, there has absolutely.

Ben: 1:17:43

yeah,

Gene: 1:17:44

No prices are crazy. And this is. It's not even, I mean, this is not like exotic self-defense ammo. This is like regular stuff.

Ben: 1:17:53

Yeah.

Gene: 1:17:54

here's some yeah, 12 gauge. Low recoil.

Ben: 1:17:57

yeah. The, you don't want any of that.

Gene: 1:18:00

250 rounds,$365. That's a buck. 30 around. I I just. I am flabbergasted at the inflation in this particular segment of the market. I haven't had to buy ammo in about 20 years,

Ben: 1:18:19

so, so here's a, here's a 250 round case, 12 gauge Nobel sport, two and three quarter inch For 1 29.

Gene: 1:18:30

for what brand, is this a real brand or some bullshit

Ben: 1:18:33

Yep. So here's a 250 round two E here's Winchester, white box two hundred and fifty two hundred fifty round case a tune, a three-quarter ranch a hundred.

Gene: 1:18:47

119 for two 50.

Ben: 1:18:49

Yep.

Gene: 1:18:50

Okay. So it's about 50 cents around.

Ben: 1:18:52

Yep. So,

Gene: 1:18:54

what? For a seven Number seven

Ben: 1:18:56

number eight shot?

Gene: 1:18:57

shot? Yep.

Ben: 1:18:58

Yep. So here is Winchester AA target number eight, shot 254. So this is a higher end Winchester, not just white box for 159. So 64 cents around. So again, I don't think shotgun ammo has gone up that much. And this, by the way, is that sgmo.com, which is my favorite source for bulk ammo.

Gene: 1:19:21

sponsored by them, but.

Ben: 1:19:22

Nope. But I spent plenty of money with them, so.

Gene: 1:19:26

know, I, you gave me them as well. I ordered a few thousand rounds from them. See, Right after I say, oh, thank God I haven't bought anymore. Okay. I have bought ammo. Just not for guns that I own. I picked, I picked up some some Russian well, AKA ammo. so.

Ben: 1:19:42

7 6 2 about 39.

Gene: 1:19:43

by 39. Yeah. I don't own one of those guns right now, but I figured, you know, that ammo is probably going to either become hard to get or expensive. So I might as well stock up on it now. And I'll figure out about buying a gun later. So I bought some ammo and then I looked on the ammo man, which is where I've historically bought ammo online. And. Ammo man had the exact same box. Except instead of 500 bucks, it was 400 bucks.

Ben: 1:20:08

Hmm.

Gene: 1:20:09

So this is quite a bit cheaper.

Ben: 1:20:12

Well, I'll have to look at aim on man.

Gene: 1:20:14

the board, but definitely before you. Click the buy button. Compare the SGMO to ammo man pricing, because

Ben: 1:20:20

Yeah.

Gene: 1:20:21

one of them is cheaper.

Ben: 1:20:23

SGMO is here in Texas and I just, historically they've. They've been good to me.

Gene: 1:20:29

to pay sales tax on it.

Ben: 1:20:32

Yes.

Gene: 1:20:32

Yeah, and ammo, mans, Oklahoma.

Ben: 1:20:35

Gotcha. So ammo man right now, 12 gauge 250 rounds of federal target load seven and a half shot is 1 48.

Gene: 1:20:44

Yeah.

Ben: 1:20:45

So again, I don't think shotgun ammo has gone up as much as rifle, But you know,

Gene: 1:20:52

But that box or, okay, So this is a two 50 so it's 25. So it's 10, 10 boxes in that case. Right. Okay. So it's 14 bucks for a case of 20. So that

Ben: 1:21:07

that box yeah.

Gene: 1:21:08

Yeah. that, that box it's$14, right? Or, well, almost$15.

Ben: 1:21:12

Was five in the early 2000.

Gene: 1:21:14

It was five in the early two thousands and it was 3 99. I was shooting it. Yeah, it's gone up a lot. So,

Ben: 1:21:25

Okay. So, my, my point of reference in this, my Remington seven. Yeah. So my rooming-in 700 ultra mag. So it's a Remington 300 ultra Magnum. And when I built that gun out in the early to that, well, late 2010 ish. What I was spinning on ammo was 25$30 a box for that ammo today, that ammo is 80 plus. So you know, that that's a, to me a much larger differential, but you know, shotgun ammo is still cheaper than rifle ammo. It is. And it always has been. So I guess the, if you think of the percentages, it's, it has gone up, but I don't think it's gone up as near as much

Gene: 1:22:12

Well, okay. So. here's, here's a ref.

Ben: 1:22:15

millimeter, nine millimeter was

Gene: 1:22:16

Oh, nine millimeters. Crazy. Absolutely. So here's the reference for 308. So three weights, federal gold medal, 1 75 The ammo I've been shooting both for hunting and for target forever. That I remember buying. And this would have been. This would have been 97, 19 97. So 25 years ago. I was flabbergasted to use the word again at the fact that these were 99 cents per round. Like that, that was the most expensive ammo I'd used for anything at almost a buck around. And right now selling for$42 for 20 rounds. on ammo, man. So that's just over$2 around.

Ben: 1:23:01

Yep. And right now,

Gene: 1:23:03

actually. Okay. I'm going to think about this. 25 years. for doubling the price is probably not that

Ben: 1:23:10

So, I mean it inflation. Yeah.

Gene: 1:23:14

Yeah. but compared to nine millimeter, I mean like nine millimeter is way more than twice.

Ben: 1:23:19

Yeah. So I mean, mad ball, I guess, is the best characterization because Yeah. it's surplus generally And, it may be ball went from, you know, pennies around two now it's damn near a buck around, so

Gene: 1:23:37

yeah. And I'd much rather pay two bucks for a 308 than A buck for a nine millimeter round.

Ben: 1:23:45

Yeah.

Gene: 1:23:46

You get more, more utility out of the 308. Yeah, so here we go. This is the American Eagle. So this is a cheap version of federal, which is generally what I would shoot for plinking. And these are 43 cents around.

Ben: 1:23:58

for now,

Gene: 1:23:59

Yeah right now. That's way less than the buck around. That's actually not that bad either. Then if you think about it, So, I mean, it's still, it did used to be probably 15 cents is what it used to be.

Ben: 1:24:13

yeah, it just makes firm, you know, range days are just more expensive. That's a lot. It comes down to,

Gene: 1:24:19

Yeah, Cause in, in the nineties, when I was hitting the range quite a bit, to me, the, the cost of a gun range, wasn't horribly different than the cost of a golfing range. Like you'd kind of come out of both spending the same amount of money.

Ben: 1:24:34

Okay. I spent way more at the gun range.

Gene: 1:24:38

Well back then, I don't know. Maybe that's that. Yeah, it probably is true, but I also haven't like I stopped playing golf in The late 1990s. It never got good enough to make it enjoyable. And so I just fuck it. I'm going to do other hobbies.

Ben: 1:24:53

Yeah, yeah. Going drinking beer and playing golf and putzing around. I just never let it be something I was too worried about. And then I enjoyed it, you know,

Gene: 1:25:05

I have a type of personality where I either have to get good at something or I'm going to stop doing it.

Ben: 1:25:12

well, I can be mediocre and enjoy myself. So,

Gene: 1:25:16

Although some would argue. I'm mediocre at podcasting, but I'm still enjoying that.

Ben: 1:25:21

well, there you go. But that's more of having a, just a good conversation. You know, the podcasting, isn't really the aspect. It's just having a conversation, but yeah, the. The problem I have is going out to the range, even if I'm, you know, like the other day I went out and I took that my, my neighbor Bacara out and, you know, played around with it, but you know what. I shoot a five shot group and then I gotta let the barrel cool down and everything else. And while it's cooling down, then I've got my SOCOM 16 out there hitting steel and playing around with it, just shooting more ammo. And you know,

Gene: 1:25:58

what manufacturer

Ben: 1:26:00

Springfield, armory, SOCOM, 16 MNA SOCOM 16. It's one of my favorite guns. It's just in when I in 308. So I'm just, you know,

Gene: 1:26:09

But the last one. of those, I think I'd picked up was just too damn heavy. I didn't like the wait.

Ben: 1:26:15

Well, so this is the 16 inch barrel version, and it's, it's still heavy compared to like an AR 10 or something like that. But at the same time, the re the way the it's piston driven and the way the recall impulse is the piston is actually on the bottom side of the gun. It's just a neat gun to me. And it's one of those that you know, I, I, I, it's a, it's a sub 300 yard gun for me, but sub 300 yards either with the open sites or I've got a Australians, you know, a one X magnified scope, one to six X scope on it. And it 300 yards. I mean, it, it's just, it's like my 10 22, I can pick up that my 10 22 and under a hundred yards. I can, I can hit a quarter range target under a hundred yards of my 10 22. You can just cause I've shot it so damn

Gene: 1:27:04

No, I used to have one of those, but I got rid of it a long time ago.

Ben: 1:27:08

Well, so my, my, the 10 22 I have is a stainless steel one that my grandfather gave me in the nineties that you know, I just, I don't even know how many thousands of rounds

Gene: 1:27:20

Yeah. Yeah. And there again, Tommy, talk about price, increase in ammo. For 22 atmo. What the fuck?

Ben: 1:27:28

Oh, well, yeah, I mean, even for me, I mean, a box of 500 when I was a kid was 10 bucks, you know?

Gene: 1:27:35

Yeah. Yeah. it was 10 bucks or less. Absolutely. And again Walmart like available anywhere. And you didn't really even think about the cost of that ammo. That was basically free.

Ben: 1:27:48

yeah.

Gene: 1:27:48

And now they're, If you can get them.

Ben: 1:27:52

Well, you know, what happened to 22 is when Sandy hook happened and you had the big primer crunch, all the primary manufacturers stopped loading any room, fire rounds. So ammo man 2000 rounds of the just here's a Remington bucket of 22 long rifle, 36 drain nothing fancy 1400 rounds for two 15. So Yeah. Versus 500 rounds for 10 bucks.

Gene: 1:28:20

Yeah. So that's how many, 1400 rounds a bucket.

Ben: 1:28:24

here's blazer blazer 500 round brick, which blazer isn't exactly

Gene: 1:28:30

bikes. That's. That's horrible. That's a bad brand with horrible powder in it.

Ben: 1:28:36

Yup.

Gene: 1:28:36

At four times the price of what you used to be able to get federal AMA or Winchester ammo for.

Ben: 1:28:42

Oh, fuck that Eight times. man.

Gene: 1:28:45

eight times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you're right. I can't do math.

Ben: 1:28:48

Eight times

Gene: 1:28:49

eight times. That's insane. I didn't know, a Wolf made 22 long rifle. Jesus, all that shit's going away. All the Wolf stuff is Russian. So that's going to be. Once it's sold out, it is gone forever.

Ben: 1:29:03

you think?

Gene: 1:29:03

Oh, yeah. Well, you don't think it's Russian.

Ben: 1:29:07

No, I think it's Russian, but I, I don't, I think it'll still get imported

Gene: 1:29:11

How many years have we had an embargo with Cuba?

Ben: 1:29:14

a long

Gene: 1:29:14

You think the Russian ones are going to change?

Ben: 1:29:17

yeah. Yeah, I do because I don't, I, I think as soon as the Ukraine conflict is resolved, a lot of that's going to go away.

Gene: 1:29:25

Not a phone has their way.

Ben: 1:29:28

Well, if Poland has their way then if Poland and Bulgaria get their way, then It's not going to be pretty.

Gene: 1:29:35

No cause Paula is so gung ho. On getting Europe into a hot war. That there right now, talking about moving heavy artillery from Poland, it's all American shit, by the way, but moving it from Poland to occupy. Western Ukraine around Leviev which incidentally I've been saying for ages. This is historically Polish territory. This lava is a Polish city. This is not. You know, Ukrainian or Russian, this is, this was part of Poland. pre-World war That ended up getting. Re distributed. To the victors of world war II. Which incidentally Poland. Was a loser. Only in that. The, the Nazis Very quickly and took over the whole country. So it's kind of not fair to pull on the fact that they lost territory there. Although Poland did get a little bit of territory on their west side from Germany, I guess that was the balance out. But. Anyway, my long story is historically. That part of Western Ukraine has been polished territory.

Ben: 1:30:47

Well, so Poland's the reason why Poland was occupied by Germany during world war two at the very beginning was as a artifact of what happened during war. Right.

Gene: 1:31:02

Yeah, history doesn't happen in a vacuum. That's

Ben: 1:31:04

no. So, so you know, the Hitler and you can say that it was an excuse and whatever. I tend to, I tend to think that world war two, I don't know what the truth is. I think that you know, I've read you know, crazy historians and you know, things like that. And I I'll

Gene: 1:31:23

a gun shows.

Ben: 1:31:24

I'll all I know is that I don't know the truth. You know, what was his name? He wrote a pretty, a pretty big book about Dresden in the fire

Gene: 1:31:35

Hmm.

Ben: 1:31:35

Dresden David Irving. so I've listened to a lot of David Irving's talks. I've read some of David Irving's writings You know, He someone would call him a Holocaust denier. I don't know that he's right. And any stretch of the imagination. I, but he raises some questions that make me question the normal narrative. And what I would say is, you know, I've read mine comp, I've read multiple translations of mine columns, not because I particularly like Hitler, but because this is the biggest boogeyman of the 20th century, I should probably try and understand what caused him to rise to power so that I can be on the lookout and make sure that shit doesn't happen again. That's my mentality. I I've, I seek to understand I've read marks to regardless my point

Gene: 1:32:22

read Mao's little book.

Ben: 1:32:25

no, I but I, I don't tend to like Asian authors. And maybe it's just something about it. Like I, I'm not a big fan of the art of war.

Gene: 1:32:36

Mm.

Ben: 1:32:37

The art of war to me is just, I don't find it very enlightening. Never have in fact, that's one of those books I have always, every time I've tried to read it, I struggled to finish. Cause I just, it annoys the shit out of me.

Gene: 1:32:49

it's It's only like 60, 60 pages, tiny.

Ben: 1:32:54

I understand this. I still just can't stand it. I have a copy

Gene: 1:32:57

most of the books that are if you go on Amazon buy our war, most of those Are there almost yeah. They're, they're like 80% commentary, 20% actual translated texts because everyone wants to explain what this actually means that you don't need the damn explanation. It's self-explanatory. that's my opinion. anyway.

Ben: 1:33:19

Right. But anyway. I just don't find it. I would rather read Plato than, you know, sunk. So anyway, just the way my mind works. But my point in this was Poland, the whole, what got Poland so pissed off and why they have the worldview they have today is because after world war one they were given some territory that they probably shouldn't have been. And as a result there was. A genocide that was going on. And if you asked Hitler in the 1930s and leading up to world war II, why he was pissed off at Poland, it was because there were ethnic Germans in this territory that was seated during, after world war one and the polls. And I'm Sure. CSB will be pissed off at me, but the polls were committing in genocide and you know, it is very reminiscent of what's going on in the Ukraine today and the Donbass. So.

Gene: 1:34:13

Yeah. And it, it it's, it's interesting, you know, there's Pre this year. The, a lot of the Polish. Speaking people have the no agenda, social ilk. were very gung-ho on the Slavic brother, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, all sides. People are our family. And. Right now, the, literally the only people that I've actually had to ban have all been Polish. Because they are so. Out there and, and you know, they flipped like literally it's not their country. It's fucking Ukraine and they just want to go and murder Russians. It's like, what the hell happened here, guys?

Ben: 1:34:58

Poland you know, Poland had the issue is Poland from world war II up until the fall of the Soviet union was absolutely just screwed. Right? So Poland got invaded by Germany and then taken over by Russia. I mean, Poland and up until the fall of the Soviet union, Poland was absolutely dominated and screwed the Germans. If, you know, if, if the

Gene: 1:35:25

Well, it was before the fall of the Soviet union. as well, like Valencia and the strikes and the. The the shipyards really kind of. Pivoted poem towards their course in veering, away from the Soviet

Ben: 1:35:38

My point was that Poland was not a willing vessel state of the Soviet union.

Gene: 1:35:45

No. but I don't know if any of them were, I mean, if we're honest,

Ben: 1:35:49

Bellaruse and Russia have maintained ties pretty well. I mean,

Gene: 1:35:52

Okay, fair enough. That Belarus. certainly has more historically in common with Russia. and Poland, Dez,

Ben: 1:36:00

right. But my point, my point was that the poles were pissed off from world war two and still are today.

Gene: 1:36:06

Yeah, I mean, I guess uh, there is. There is a sort of a. deep rooted no Desire for karmic justice. I think that exists That's probably true, but again, you know, Poland is not the country or historically, if you look at Poland, it's not the country that we know from world war II onwards. The. Polish. lot In. Empire had controlled a very large chunk of Europe. For hundreds of years and from territory. All the way to Kiev and into what is modern Germany. So, and, and then all the way up to the current area of obviously pulling them. And all the way up to the Gulf of Finland. So it like the heyday for Poland was, oh, what was it? Probably 400 years ago. Ish. thereabouts. so there is a history, there's a strong history. Of success and, you know, great nationhood there. And all the modern history. Is not nearly as You know, full of capitalists, like the biggest accomplishments being the. The Push back off of the Soviet union, probably. And cause it. I dunno, I, I just, I kinda think like Polish people have a triple nurse order, I guess that's what I'm trying to get to.

Ben: 1:37:31

Well, I mean, all the Polack jokes don't help here in the U S

Gene: 1:37:35

Yeah. And I never understood that too. I mean, I think it probably had more to do with the fact that these people had poor English skills and that they were actually dumb. I think that's probably where the jokes came from. But it never made any sense because some of the best mathematicians were Polish. Some of the best chess players were Polish. So it's like, they're not

Ben: 1:37:55

though, we still make Aggie jokes.

Gene: 1:37:58

But those are true.

Ben: 1:37:59

Yeah. Okay. No, I think it has to do with just, you know, the nature of the university being that of a agricultural mechanical university, you know, starting out. So farmers, right? Th th that's the origin there. It has nothing to do with, you know, the reality. But yeah.

Gene: 1:38:18

Yup. So, I don't know. I mean, So if Poland goes into Ukraine, which that sounds like they want to do. That somewhat defeats. The Russian purpose for being in Ukraine. Which is to have the buffer say that's not part of NATO. So if Poland takes over Western Ukraine, Then it's just pushing NATO further, closer to the

Ben: 1:38:44

but here's the thing. If Poland takes an offensive action does that remove the article five NATO convention,

Gene: 1:38:52

but they'll never call it as an offensive action.

Ben: 1:38:55

but it fundamentally is.

Gene: 1:38:57

Well, we can certainly agree on that, But they're not going to call it that they're going to be calling it. You know, poli shade to the preservation of the true Ukraine or

Ben: 1:39:07

yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fine. But I, I, I guess my point is from a foreign policy standpoint Poland goes into Western Ukraine.

Gene: 1:39:14

yeah.

Ben: 1:39:15

Inevitably. There is a firefight with the Russians. I don't think that triggers articles.

Gene: 1:39:21

Well, I don't know if it matters if it does or doesn't because. Poland will then be acting the same way that Ukraine is, which is, Hey, this big bully called Russia is beating us up. Now you all our other friends need to help So they're going to try and spin this into and look, Russia is now attacking to your being countries. When does Europe start going to start wising up and actually go and kill Putin.

Ben: 1:39:48

And

Gene: 1:39:50

They're trying to escalate it to a point where there's no turning back.

Ben: 1:39:54

Yeah. but I, I think that we're done with the escalate story period. I think what's going to happen is the Donbass and Eastern Ukraine is now Russian territory and it's gonna, I think it's going to settle out and then it's going to be the same way Crimea. I don't think any. And even if Polan does go into Eastern Ukraine, then I think what happens is the, the fundamentally, the country that is quote-unquote Ukraine now shrinks

Gene: 1:40:23

Oh, yeah. yeah,

Ben: 1:40:24

basically key

Gene: 1:40:25

Just yeah. Yeah,

Ben: 1:40:27

Eastern will be Poland. Western will be Russian, you know, you're, you're, you're just not going to have much that.

Gene: 1:40:34

yeah. but there. So my initial prediction on this. Literally the first day that Russia went into Ukraine. I posted a very crudely drawn. Map. Where I drew a line from a DESA To basically just east of key of just the straight line on the map. I said, okay, everything is this line will be Russian. everything west. Is going to be split between Poland and Ukraine. I didn't draw the Poland line, but I just basically said Levine will become polished again. I expected the Russia to not oppose that action. As long as it was done in a Diplomatic way. I don't think Russia would oppose Poland taken back Lviv and Rio, the fighting with the Polish. That had been became only part of the USSR. So. If we can stop pulling from escalating, then I will have literally been exactly right then my prediction. Way more right than all the so-called experts. But there is still a very much a danger that Poland's. Rationale for doing this move is to suck the rest of Europe. Into the war. because that's, what happens in Europe treaties. Get in the way and Europe goes into work.

Ben: 1:41:48

Yeah. I mean, that's, this is why America should have remained isolationist. But you know, that said, what do you think their motive other than just

Gene: 1:42:01

It's a dislike. I think it's a dislike of Russia more than a love of

Ben: 1:42:06

Well, absolutely. But what do you think they stand to gain other than just settling scores from post-World war?

Gene: 1:42:15

I don't know that anybody in Poland is thinking long-term, I don't think a lot of countries are thinking long-term right now, the fact that you have. Well, Poland gets, I believe. I want to say that the last figures I remember is that the 41% of Polish gas is Russian gas.

Ben: 1:42:37

Not anymore.

Gene: 1:42:37

But it still is. It's just being sold by Germany and a profit. I mean that's the irony is they've. They've no longer getting Russian gas. But Germany is selling them Russian gas. So

Ben: 1:42:52

ensues.

Gene: 1:42:52

Yeah. I mean, that's like, okay. So does it make a difference to Russia? Whether Germany buys it on behalf of Poland? It's somewhat ironic, but no, it doesn't really make a difference. Poland can pretend that they're. No longer on Russian gas, but in reality, that's exactly what's coming down the pipelines.

Ben: 1:43:11

Yeah, how long until Germany is cut off.

Gene: 1:43:14

Well, the bigger issue is Bulgaria, which gets 92% of their gas from Russia. And they've the refuse to pay in rubles. They're fucked. I just don't know what they're thinking. Like, how is that country supposed to operate?

Ben: 1:43:30

So I actually have a little bit of insight on Bulgaria and so I, I worked With this young lady Luba, Luba Popoff and a Bulgarian grew up you know, she she's roughly my age. So her early childhood years were in the USSR. And then her and her family post fall of the Soviet union moved to Oklahoma. And so interesting. And I can tell you that very much like your dad, the resentment towards Russia and conflating Russia, and the USSR is, I mean, absolute and you know, oh, I, I, I don't know. I'm not over there. So maybe there's some truth to the fact that Russia was the heart and soul of the USSR and everything that was there. But to me is the way communism spread and what happened there. I think other countries are equally share the blame.

Gene: 1:44:32

Yeah. Well, and I also covered this in one of the episodes where if you actually look at the leadership of the USSR, almost every one of the, the premiers was actually either born. Out of Russia. Completely or very near the border, like, You know, I, I what's his name? Cruz chef was born like 50 miles from the Ukraine in Russia, but right next to Ukraine, So there's a. I dunno. And Russia proper is a very large sized country. So you can say somebody is Russian and then they're from you know, Siberia on the border of China. Or they're Russian and they're from St. Petersburg on the border of Finland.

Ben: 1:45:14

Well it, yeah, it it's how many times zones does Russia

Gene: 1:45:18

don't. I honestly, I don't remember, but I think it's eight or nine.

Ben: 1:45:22

Yeah. it's an, it's an insane amount of territory spread out across a vast, vast distance. But the point I was making is that these former Soviet states tend to have this hatred towards Russia that, you know, they at least share should, should share equal blame in the USSR. But you know, they don't just like eventually when NATO breaks up and, you know, well, NATO is drastically different than the way USSR was, but I think as the as America descends and is no longer the powerhouse that it once was, you will have former allies having similar treatment towards the.

Gene: 1:46:09

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. There, there have been plenty of times where the us. Has. You know, forced. its friends to act certain ways. And as long as the U S is the. The union polar, You know, top of the food chain in the world. They can get away with that, but you're absolutely right. As soon as the U S. Dominance starts to go down because financially the U S is going to go to. And, you know, I don't mean like into. Third world status, but certainly not into being the, the top of the heap here. China is very drastically climbing that mountain. So I think. You're right. I think we're going to see a lot of past friends. Show a lot resentment and how they were effectively treated as an unwilling participant rather than the partner.

Ben: 1:47:00

Yeah. Hopefully the U S can at least take the path that the UT the UK took, you know, hopefully, but we'll see.

Gene: 1:47:10

My biggest disappointment, frankly, like I sort of expect this from Paul and I think it's stupid, but I sort of expect this. I don't really expect this from Bulgaria. That was a bit of a surprise to me because Bulgarians tend to be generally very friendly with Russians, but whatever. The big. Sort of disappointment to me was Switzerland.

Ben: 1:47:30

Yeah. Not maintaining

Gene: 1:47:32

Yeah, like a country that has prided itself on being neutral for 500 years, that managed to be neutral. Throughout other conflicts. that were much bigger. Has literally in the first few days, throwing its chips clearly on the other side of this conflict with Russia. it was like, what the hell happened there? to clearly the Swiss are not the Swiss anymore.

Ben: 1:47:54

Well, they have changed dramatically. I mean, the, the immigrant, we talked about it you know, last time that the, the demographics and the shift that has happened in Switzerland is pretty, pretty dramatic. You know, I hate to say it, but I think the Swiss literally have Stockholm syndrome.

Gene: 1:48:14

Yeah. Well, whatever it is, it's a sad

Ben: 1:48:18

now

Gene: 1:48:19

I, I think that it's good to have borders that people can easily go through. I don't mean like a sieve here in Texas, but I mean like legitimately. Have easy ways for people to legally cross borders.

Ben: 1:48:35

a hundred percent of.

Gene: 1:48:36

But I also think there's an awful lot of benefit to having countries that have national Unique factors about them. Like, I like to think. Certainly when I was young. You know, when you say the Swiss or you say the Danes, or you say the Swedes, or you say any of these countries, you know, Instantly in your mind, you can picture who these people are, what their mentality is, what their religion is like. They're easy to sort of generalize about. And even America at that point in time, While it was made up People that looked very different from each other. It was the melting pot. And you could say first and foremost, America stood for freedom and Liberty and. For individualism, like these were characteristics that the rest of the world cause ascribed to the U S much more so than any of their other neighbors.

Ben: 1:49:34

And I think that the, that is the two pathways. I think the only way you have a cohesive society society is either America's path of the melting pot. And you have you rally around those common ideals. And while we do not necessarily share the same physical or religious traits, we have a unifying set of ideals that is above all the rest. And you have that melting pot and you have integration, or you have the European model of unitary. What I think does not work is, and we hinted on this on the last episode was the salad bowl, right? The salad bowl. Work, if you do not have those overarching cohesive elements. And we even talked about, you know, Minnesota and Michigan and some of the Sharia law stuff, that's itching its way in that, that, that doesn't work. But you know, you, you, you can have your religious belief. That's fine. But when we start talking about enforceable law that has to be a unified system. It cannot be one group has a set of laws for them. And another group has a set of laws for them that does not work. And even culturally, if you have a group that refuses to integrate into society and bring their voice into the overall society, then that's problematic.

Gene: 1:50:57

Yeah, but you know, you also have the other extreme. Happening here in Minnesota to some degree, at least. That Sharia law is becoming the law of the state. That, not for the whole state right now, but I'm saying There are more and more areas where the. The. The Muslim immigrants are getting heavily involved in politics. And the historically liberal nature of the, the population in Minnesota is. You know, they're all racist. So they want to vote on for people based on their race status rather than their qualifications. And so you have to have with people that effectively get elected to office, Because they look different or their religion is different. Who then whose goal is to actually enforce laws. That are very limiting for everybody. So, it's a. It's going to be come a more serious problem, or you're going to end up effectively. Seeding territory to groups of people that have been in the country for much shorter periods of time. than the people that currently live there. I mean at one point, the Swedes and the Norwegians were the newcomers to Minnesota. Right. When the word. Minnesota is a, is a SU word. That means Land of sky blue water. I believe. So. It like everything changes over time. I get it. I can't expect things to be frozen than say the same. That's why I'm not conservative. But. I don't think it's changing in a preferable direction here is.

Ben: 1:52:45

Well, and this is where I go back to you know, one of the possible outcomes of the fall of the United States is that we break up and if we do, then that might be okay. And, you know, the, the center north of the country may very well become a Muslim nation. And that, that could be okay. I have zero problem with that. But

Gene: 1:53:07

Well, as long as there's a border stayed between us the less Ironically the same reason that Russia is using right now As to why Ukraine can't join NATO. This is why I think Minnesota and Michigan can't join the Arab league.

Ben: 1:53:23

Yeah. And what we'll see where it ends up. Did you see the prank that this Canadian group played on their prime ministers of diagonal, whatever it is. And it's literally, oh my God, it's hilarious, man. I'll send you this. But this group of pranksters during all the trucker stuff started putting out the they were going to create a whites only nation from Alaska down to Texas, Louisiana diagonal across the north American continent. And they called it diag something. And you know, their, their banner was a black banner with this white diagonal Stripe down at and all this. And it was totally a joke. It was absolutely four Chan trolling asked joke and in Canadian parliament, They got them to talk about this. Hey,

Gene: 1:54:15

oh my God.

Ben: 1:54:16

it's hilarious. I'll send you the videos, the fact that they actually got them to talking about it and raised to this level, and it's hilarious. And some of the people involved, they, they put out a video recently where they're just laughing their asses off at the dumb ass Canadian parliament. It was hilarious.

Gene: 1:54:36

Yeah, no, that sounds, I, I. love a good troll. That's always a. fun thing to see. But yeah, it's a.

Ben: 1:54:45

Well, it's how you, it's how you beat inside. Right? You, you, you, you mock it to the point where they don't even realize that they've just lost.

Gene: 1:54:56

Well, and this is something I think Tim Poole does quite well with

Ben: 1:55:01

Diag Alon, diag Alon was the name of the state.

Gene: 1:55:04

Oh, okay. Yeah. With his You got music playing in the background

Ben: 1:55:09

Sorry.

Gene: 1:55:10

Yeah, It'd be playing music while you're recording, dude.

Ben: 1:55:12

I was looking up the YouTube video for you. I autoplayed my bad, my bad.

Gene: 1:55:18

Anyway. Yeah, so he, he said years ago, probably two, three years ago that Twitter became useless for anything serious. So he, he only uses Twitter. to patrol And being somebody with, I think he's got over a million followers or somebody on Twitter. So it's like his trolls get a lot of steam going. And he hasn't been banned from Twitter. I, I was banned from there, like two years ago. Or maybe even, yeah. Over two years ago,

Ben: 1:55:51

Tim Poole is milk toast enough and middle of the road enough that I think he skirts it. I don't, but I mean, at the same time he could totally be the controlled opposition.

Gene: 1:56:01

Yeah. I don't, know. I, there is a, in my mind, a weird unnatural dislike of Tim Poole amongst the knowledge and the crowd. I don't, which I don't understand at all. I really liked him. I think. Tim makes total sense to me. I don't think there's anything fake or phony there. I don't think he looked at the money and decided to become more conservative. I think he literally is that guy in that Elon Musk cartoon that was slightly to the rest of center that, you know, didn't like big corporate governance. That Was pointing out at a lot of the same problems that the libertarians were, but he's like a lefty libertarian. But as the left has shifted further and further into insanity. He has crossed over by not moving. Crossed over that middle line and has become. Accused of being a, you know, conservative. Fascist the. You know, and everything else.

Ben: 1:56:56

So you don't think he's Emmanuel Goldstein?

Gene: 1:56:58

No. No. I think he. I, if I, I don't know if I can even pick any kind of characters in the book. I think in a lot of ways, Tim probably has gotten a little more conservative. Realistically speaking. He likes to say he hasn't moved to the right. Yeah, he got into guns. He was never willing to get. And so he grew up in a, in a lower middle-class family in south side of Chicago.

Ben: 1:57:24

Yup.

Gene: 1:57:24

So, so it'd be really hard for him to have been a conservative of any stretch or even a libertarian when he was young. Because the circumstances. Create a default path. Of. Of liberal. Thinking if you live in the area like that,

Ben: 1:57:43

But, you know what he w so Tim originally came on my radar during occupy wall street and his take on occupy and everything, and a lot of the early on stuff with occupy before it got co-opted. I mean, same thing with the tea party. I, I can agree with a lot of the early on stuff on occupy, and I can agree with a lot of the early on stuff with the tea party, but post the occupation by the, the the normal, the, the controlled opposition. You know, that that's when that shift occurs. So I think Tim has an innate view. First of all, I think that there are times when they say such stupid shit on that show. But I'm sure we do too.

Gene: 1:58:24

Well less so from Tim than other people on the show though.

Ben: 1:58:27

absolutely.

Gene: 1:58:28

One thing that I've noticed, and I I've gotten pretty good at. Being able to tell this. Kim is a high IQ

Ben: 1:58:37

Absolutely.

Gene: 1:58:38

You know, he's at least one 50 and he is not been in environments that could. Really demonstrate that I think in the past, Which is why people, all they see is the beanie. And they're like, oh yeah, you know, he's just this. Skateboarding idiot. Well, he's actually a lot smarter than that.

Ben: 1:58:58

you know, and I, where I was going is I think that despite some of the misstatements and things like that, there's an innate understanding of Liberty. And he is working things out. One of the things I enjoy about the show and what I've enjoyed watching is over the last few years, he's gone from, okay, guns. Well, why can't I own nuclear weapons and following through the logical train and saying, you know, okay, I get that there. You know why there are practical reasons, but if I'm taking this to its logical end, then why, why isn't there. And, and he's following that logical train and that I really appreciate, I like a lot of his one-off commentary. Ian, I could do without

Gene: 1:59:40

yeah, Ian is literally there to make everybody else, not just him, but literally all the guests look smarter. That's all his job is That's that's his only job cause everybody thinks he's a complete idiot. He is. But he also is a just chocked full of random, useless little factoids. Topics that. You wouldn't think he would even know anything about. And he does. he, he does why he loves graphing. He does pew wrong data about 45% of the time. So he's barreled. correct in you know, if at all, but. but. I think Tim enjoys having a chaotic, disruptive person in the show. And not letting it get too serious.

Ben: 2:00:25

yeah. And I wonder how much of that is just friendship and how much of it is maniacal and that's,

Gene: 2:00:32

A little bit of both. Probably. Yeah. they are definitely buddies, but they're not like best friends or anything.

Ben: 2:00:38

Yeah, And, you know, I guess my thought there is that every time he says free the code for you, the code for the code boy, Jesus.

Gene: 2:00:48

Yeah. it's, there, there's a lot of just really stupidity there. And and he always has this super serious lookout. When he says that, he'll say, The stupidest thing. And look totally serious

Ben: 2:01:01

Yeah. I, I think Michael malice needs to be on let's show more.

Gene: 2:01:06

I dunno, man. I can take only so much of malice at a time. He is annoying

Ben: 2:01:13

your fellow

Gene: 2:01:14

he's he? He, not only that he's also Russian, but he's annoying. Like his personality is of the kid that I used to beat up in the playground.

Ben: 2:01:24

Hmm.

Gene: 2:01:25

You know, like those, those guys that. That will constantly say shit until you actually. Press physical harm to, And then they're all apologizing to. you. It's like,

Ben: 2:01:38

Does it mean that's been Shapiro to,

Gene: 2:01:40

I don't think so. I don't think so. I think Ben is probably gotten into a few fist fights.

Ben: 2:01:46

yeah, because he lit his mouth.

Gene: 2:01:49

Malice a lot more. So malice is the kind of guy that'll completely back away. As soon as you threatened him. Ben, I don't think with back away.

Ben: 2:01:57

Yeah. Who was the other guy that freedom tunes is kind of replaced? Jesus, I always liked him when he was on even info wars political t-shirts.

Gene: 2:02:08

Oh, Yeah. I'm a Luke. The Polish guy. Yeah. Yeah. Luke is great. I love Luke. He is fun. I actually I'm a subscriber to him, so I pay him money every month.

Ben: 2:02:18

CCSB. It's not just the poles. It's

Gene: 2:02:21

no, because he is a recent immigrant from Poland. He has a more, I guess, normal perspective on things. He's no fan He said, here's the thing. This is what I always say is there are two things that. I absolutely hate based on historical understanding. And that is Nazis. and communism. I will not put up with either one of those two. I will engage in violence against both.

Ben: 2:02:48

Absolutely. Well, I would say any totalitarianism. I don't, I I don't,

Gene: 2:02:52

there are some time there in isms. I'm okay with.

Ben: 2:02:56

example,

Gene: 2:02:57

Example would be like, the. I dunno. I mean, I. Push comes to shove it's it's hard to just buy, but I think that there are.

Ben: 2:03:08

so I mean, we can even take it to fiction. So if, if you know, the Handmaid's tale came

Gene: 2:03:16

Yeah. like there's an example of a good solitary. It wasn't right

Ben: 2:03:18

I, I completely disagree. I would be absolutely railing against it.

Gene: 2:03:24

I don't know. I think it kind of makes sense

Ben: 2:03:27

yeah, I

Gene: 2:03:28

trying to ensure the survival of the species by making sure that the proper species survive.

Ben: 2:03:33

Okay. But forcing a unitary religious view across a large geographic and diverse people, I am not okay with, I take my freedom of religion

Gene: 2:03:42

Well, first of all, a lot of people have already died off, right? And it's, it's a religious born out of necessity, which most religions are actually, if you look at Judaism and certainly Christianity and everything else. The religion is there to explain. Why things are the way they are.

Ben: 2:03:59

Certainly there is some interesting things. Yeah. And if you look at it from a non-believer standpoint, I can certainly see that. I can see that there's definitely an evolution of storytelling. I mean, you read the epic of Gilgamesh and that'll be reminiscent to some Christians. So,

Gene: 2:04:18

Well, there there's a I think all religion is. And, you know, my background with this, but all religion is, is a story that is so good that you want to ensure that future generations. Don't see a lot of difference between that story and reality because the message, the story is conveying. Is so important and positive that. The future survival of generations. Is going to be positively affected by the message. And it's going to be negatively affected. If that story isn't. Listened to and the lessons aren't learned. You know, the, the reason that you don't eat pork was a good reason is because if you eat under cooked you will get sick and you will die in not propagate any further.

Ben: 2:05:10

well, and, and the I would say that the dietary laws, you know, Changed over time and cha and I don't adhere to any dietary laws. What I would say is that I really liked Peterson's take on especially Christianity, but any of the religious myths and so on going back of, you know, his his take on Christ and Christ being the king of Kings, you know, and that being a refinement of, you know, Kings being a pretty good person, and then we take the best and we make the best attributes. And that becomes this. I think that that evolutionary style of storytelling is absolutely beneficial. And if nothing else, why you should have an ethic that is based in religion of some kind in, I know that you're more on the humanist side of things, but it's outsourcing to our ancestors, you know, a lot of work at the very least.

Gene: 2:06:10

It is. I can, I can certainly, I can agree with that, but. I also prefer that you can derive your ethics rather than believe your ethics.

Ben: 2:06:22

So you can derive your ethics, but how, you know, I guess for me, I think that at the very least you could take a religious text and say that that is derived ethics. over time. And if you haven't read maps with meaning, which is Peterson's first book, it's dense.

Gene: 2:06:42

Yeah, I listened to it. Yeah.

Ben: 2:06:45

the I mean, I, I, I listened to it. I read it and I, it took me really about three good readings to really suss out pretty much everything. I wanted to own that book and looking at a lot of cross references in his bibliography on that book is extensive. And, you know, there's a lot to break apart there.

Gene: 2:07:05

Yeah.

Ben: 2:07:07

But I, I think it really kind of hits the nail on the head as to saying why there's value in these old stories in these old myths. If you want to put it that way or however you want to

Gene: 2:07:20

I don't at all, deny the value. I don't deny in the value. My problem. With religion across the board. Is the necessity for a belief. Versus. A derivation.

Ben: 2:07:34

Yeah. And I guess Peterson's point really is that society ignores these things at our own peril. And when we start changing things too rapidly, as we are today,

Gene: 2:07:47

Hm.

Ben: 2:07:48

things can tend to fall apart. I am very much encouraged of the events of the last couple of weeks though, with the meltdown that's going around Twitter, which we'll see if Musk makes a big change or not.

Gene: 2:08:02

so. you think it's more than just funny? I mean, I'm enjoying, laughing at it, but do you think that there's more to it than that.

Ben: 2:08:07

I I'm going to wait and see, I can be hopeful, but right now it's just fucking hilarious. So I'm going to enjoy that. And then CNN plus collapsing is hilarious.

Gene: 2:08:18

Yeah.

Ben: 2:08:19

The thing that I am taking the most Gleanin is that Mike Wallace is out of a job that just, I, I can't stand

Gene: 2:08:28

I thought he was dead. I didn't realize he was still alive.

Ben: 2:08:31

shit.

Gene: 2:08:32

but

Ben: 2:08:33

What do you mean?

Gene: 2:08:34

why? I like, I haven't seen him in 20 years.

Ben: 2:08:39

Fox news Sunday.

Gene: 2:08:40

I don't watch

Ben: 2:08:43

Okay. Well he was on,

Gene: 2:08:44

a TV. and that's I like, I, I remember the name Mike Well, I just, I just assumed he was dead already.

Ben: 2:08:52

Yeah. Well, he was just he, he was someone that I was just very much a globalist elite prick and I put Romney. He is in the same. He is in the same vein as Romney and McCain and you know,

Gene: 2:09:07

Yeah. I mean, that's the people like if you want to point a finger at all into why we are in the collapse of the United States, that's what I'm going to point a finger is that mentality, those

Ben: 2:09:18

Rodan, Rodney

Gene: 2:09:20

Yeah, they were, they were, so self-righteous about. The. The natural state of the United States being able to do no wrong and every decision resulting with in no karma backwards. That they have allowed this country. By doing shit, liberals could utilize to get to the point where it is right now in a downward spiral, which I. I can't envision stopping anytime soon. Maybe somebody else can, I'm not saying I'm absolutely right on this, but I can't see the us. Like stopping at the next election and reversing course. I think we're gonna keep. Drinking our economy. I think we're gonna keep devaluing our dollar. I think inflation is going to keep rising and eventually unemployment will start rising back up that kind of stopped after post COVID. But it's now I think at the very real risk of rising once again. And I don't think, even if we do have a Republican landslide, which I predict is not going to happen, but even if it did happen, I don't think that's going to be enough to slow the country's class.

Ben: 2:10:32

Well, we are at a turning point. And if you go to the four turnings it really

Gene: 2:10:37

talks about all the time. He loves that book.

Ben: 2:10:39

I've. I mean, I read that book a long time ago. It's, it's a good book. And it's a good, it is good for Anglo-Saxon people. Because that's really what you have to understand is it's based off of the generational patterns around that. And the question

Gene: 2:10:57

say Anglo-Saxon you just mean whites?

Ben: 2:11:00

No,

Gene: 2:11:01

what do you,

Ben: 2:11:01

I mean. British tradition,

Gene: 2:11:03

Oh, just strictly. Okay. Just British. Got it.

Ben: 2:11:05

Yeah. Yeah. It. the, the, the timing, and if you read the author in their notes, it's really based off of a, you know, really the English tradition peoples and Anglo-Saxon may not be the perfect word for it. but Yeah, it is based off of the timings from hundreds of years of that, how that goes. And it's really based off the idea that strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times and bad times make strong men

Gene: 2:11:37

which again, literally Tim repeats every other episode.

Ben: 2:11:40

okay, well, I you've watched him pull way the hell more than I do apparently,

Gene: 2:11:43

Y I pay for his thing.

Ben: 2:11:46

ah, gotcha. Well, I donate to him I think I'm five, 10 bucks a month, whatever it is

Gene: 2:11:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Part of that whole thing, but I, if I give somebody money, I kind of feel obligated to watch them.

Ben: 2:11:56

I mean, I, for instance, I listened to Alex Jones less than once a month.

Gene: 2:12:03

Same

Ben: 2:12:04

but I throw him money and buy some of his products because you know what, he has been right on a lot of stuff for a very long

Gene: 2:12:14

are definitely gay.

Ben: 2:12:16

Okay. So th th that's a perfect example of him saying something that turns out to be true, that he said in an inflammatory way, that makes no one listened to him.

Gene: 2:12:27

Yes. Yeah, that's his that's his style is too, so blow something up that it makes it unbelievable.

Ben: 2:12:36

yeah, but you know, if he said that there are chemicals that are causing amphibians to spontaneously change gender spot on, you

Gene: 2:12:45

Well, they don't change gender Do They changed? sex.

Ben: 2:12:48

true enough, true enough gene.

Gene: 2:12:50

Words have meanings.

Ben: 2:12:51

They did you're you're absolutely correct. So yes, they spontaneously changed their set. That, that, that's pretty amazing. And so when, when Alex Jones said that the frog they're turning the fricking frogs gay, that's what he meant.

Gene: 2:13:06

Yeah. Yeah.

Ben: 2:13:08

in fact, I actually just bought a, a silver coin from him, one of his the tree of Liberty coin that he had paid way too much for it. But again, just supporting him because I value his contribution to the

Gene: 2:13:22

I don't know what he's

Ben: 2:13:23

not an avid listener.

Gene: 2:13:25

know a couple of years back pre COVID. He was doing about 85 million a year.

Ben: 2:13:30

Now he's filing for chapter 11,

Gene: 2:13:32

Well, but that, that has nothing to do with how much money is coming in. That just has to do with how you've arranged your finances to be able to. Dump something. If somebody's suing you.

Ben: 2:13:44

which the Sandy hook parents.

Gene: 2:13:46

Yeah, which by the way, I think is bullshit. I can't believe that

Ben: 2:13:49

I completely agree.

Gene: 2:13:51

It's literally a freedom of speech issue.

Ben: 2:13:53

I mean, you, you do have Torah, you do have defamation, and that is a

Gene: 2:13:58

should not exist. That is so bullshit saying something about somebody allowing them to then take tangible property from you is bullshit.

Ben: 2:14:07

knowingly lying in disparaging someone's

Gene: 2:14:10

It's not a contract. Did he have a contract with these people that he broke? No. Lying about somebody should not be just to the public, to the general public Like What do you politicians do? Literally every day. Why are they exempt from

Ben: 2:14:26

about someone and

Gene: 2:14:27

Yeah. And, and, and they are bylaw exempt when they are speaking on the record

Ben: 2:14:33

as they should.

Gene: 2:14:34

From, as every person in this country should be. You shouldn't have to be a politician. Serving in the house in order to be able to lie.

Ben: 2:14:46

No, but having the diplomatic immunity of the Congress has, is, so what Jean's referring to is that Congress w and this extends outside of the floor of the house of the Senate, if you are going to, or from the house chambers, Congress is diplomatically mean, which means if they are on the way to the chamber floor and they kill someone, they cannot be prosecuted.

Gene: 2:15:13

Yeah, I wasn't talking about the drastic. Extent, but literally the exemption from anything that's on the record from. From prosecution for exactly what Alex Jones is getting a hit with.

Ben: 2:15:27

But

Gene: 2:15:28

like to me, that seems like a basic. Error in law in jail.

Ben: 2:15:32

I can agree with you that the freedom of speech should be there. But I guess the larger point I'm making is the reason why us Congress, it has the diplomatic immunity that they have is to prevent any any abuse of law enforcement to sway their, their vote, right. To accuse them of something while they're on their way to, or from the halls of Congress

Gene: 2:15:54

I agree. And it's, it's something that everybody should have. Nobody should be able to use. Speech. As a rationale. I mean last time we talked about you, you were talking about how drunk driving should not be legal. Well, I don't think lying should be legal either.

Ben: 2:16:16

I, I, I can agree with that to an extent, I think that.

Gene: 2:16:21

don't have a contract with somebody like me saying that yeah. Biden has a dark black hair. Is a lie. Right. But I should be able to say that I shouldn't then have somebody say, well, you're disparaging Biden. You're you're making fun of his hair.

Ben: 2:16:37

Yeah. I mean, but Biden's also a public figure. So if someone said to,

Gene: 2:16:44

So if somebody is doing interviews on TV, talking about their kids dying there. There were not public figures. What.

Ben: 2:16:52

okay, fair enough. Now here's the real question. Do you think he was lying about the Sandy hook parents

Gene: 2:16:58

No.

Ben: 2:16:59

nor do I, I think that the I think Sandy hook has a lot of problems, so there you go, parents.

Gene: 2:17:07

Yeah, they just might. The, the But regardless of whether or not. There are some problems when Sandy hook, even though let's say that. The, the presentation of the parents are saying. Is the correct one. I think that idea of suing. Somebody who is a commentator. He's not even a journalist, he's a commentator. So he's a guy whose job is to present an opinion. About things that other people enjoy listening to that opinion enough To go after him.

Ben: 2:17:43

is a journalist or has been a journalist.

Gene: 2:17:46

He's never called himself a journalist.

Ben: 2:17:48

He has done journalistic. I, I mean, Bohemian Grove.

Gene: 2:17:53

Yeah.

Ben: 2:17:53

know, what he does, what he did at some of the, you know, world economic forum meetings what he's done around a lot of that, he's done some pretty good investigative stuff in the past. I would say that

Gene: 2:18:05

but he's never called himself a journalist. And I think the reason that he's gone to these places is to provide. A circumstance. Being able to then. Provide his opinion about, I mean, it's. His goal was not adrenaline. And the reason that I'm trying to make it adamant that he's not a journalist because journalism does have specific requirements in terms of ethics. And if you call yourself a journalist, you're Rightfully. So put on there a greater magnifying glorious. It is a problem. When a journalist presents. Something that is false as true. It is not a problem. When a commentator, a person who writes the opinion pieces in the newspaper. Does the exact same

Ben: 2:18:54

Oh, well, as long as the public is educated enough to distinguish the difference you

Gene: 2:19:00

But that's the thing is if one calls themselves a journalist, one has to be more careful about what the output is like. I'm not a journalist. All I have is opinions.

Ben: 2:19:10

Well, and, you

Gene: 2:19:11

why I say. W at the conclusion of every show, there's a disclaimer that says no legal or medical or any other kind of advice offered.

Ben: 2:19:18

Yeah. Well, I think the difference is though, in, in it's interesting, because pre-World war II, you had the Democrat, you had the Republican, you had newspapers that had clear political bands and they were not ashamed of it. post-World war II, 1950s, 1960s. You have the independent unbiased media and that illusion.

Gene: 2:19:42

dead. Right.

Ben: 2:19:43

Yes.

Gene: 2:19:44

Okay,

Ben: 2:19:44

And you know, now you've moved in and you had the Paul Harvey's of the world and everything else, and then you move

Gene: 2:19:49

All right.

Ben: 2:19:50

the rest of the story, man. I

Gene: 2:19:53

have the rest of the story. Yeah. I listened to that guy so long.

Ben: 2:19:56

oh yeah.

Gene: 2:19:58

That was a staple of my listening.

Ben: 2:20:00

Staple on my childhood, man. And now I think we're swinging back towards the you know, yellow dog journalism of the. And I guess my point is people read the paper in the 1920s, 1930s that was aligned with their politics, but they knew it. They knew that they were somewhat getting in an echo chamber. Today people are still doing the same thing, but they have the illusion that it's free and independent media. And it's

Gene: 2:20:25

Well, not only that you now have. Big corporate and government sensors. That is purely politically based. That is literally calling. Things that are lies like that masks work the truth. And they're calling things that are actually true. As this information. So. It's I think it's worse than simply not knowing what is the truth. I think the. The reality is that between the government and the large corporate liberal owned media. Which incidentally is hilarious, how there's a huge uprising of, and they're trying to prevent weighs any means possible from having months complete the purchase of Twitter. Meanwhile, nobody blinked twice when Bezos bought the Washington post.

Ben: 2:21:16

I mean, do you really think that they're trying to stop Musk

Gene: 2:21:20

Oh, yeah. There's articles about it. Yeah, no, I think I even talked about it in the last unrelenting There there there. There've been letters sent by like, 60 members of Congress to the FTC and a bunch of other agencies trying to come up.

Ben: 2:21:36

not gonna.

Gene: 2:21:37

trying to come up. with rationale for preventing the sale from having.

Ben: 2:21:41

So, I mean, I haven't really commented on this. Cause again, I'm just enjoying the show, but my thought is there two things, one, I think if Musk wants to buy Twitter, there's not going to be very much, if anything, anyone's going to do to stop him, there's no legal rationale for stopping him. He, it's not, there's no monopolistic issues there. There's just, there's very little, they could do to stop him from buying Twitter. And you know, even if they say, oh, well it's the town square and so on a, okay you could put it into a carrier sort of status. I E what Verizon at and T and so on are, and you know, that could be fine. And that would be an improvement.

Gene: 2:22:24

That would be an improvement. Yeah.

Ben: 2:22:26

Yeah. I think that Musk has backed them into a corner, such that at the very least he's going to spend a billion dollars to absolutely destroy and troll Twitter and put out some pretty funny fucking information about what they've been doing. And it's the same sort of thing. Like the Snowden leaks and been, oh shit. What was the, what was the first NSA whistleblower?

Gene: 2:22:51

Oh, the, I can't remember his name.

Ben: 2:22:53

Yeah. Anyway, you know, when we first found out about the taps fiber optic taps and at and T building and so on, everyone knew what was going on. Everyone in the InfoSec community community knew what was going on. And then the world wakes up and goes, holy shit, we have actual confirmation of this. Yep. So everyone knows that Twitter is playing games with the algorithm that Twitter is playing games with the users. Everyone knows it, it is common knowledge, but it is going to be absolutely mind blowing to. You know, the average person next door, who is on Twitter or social media and has no clue

Gene: 2:23:30

I'm not sure it's going to come out because right now they're erasing all evidence of the algorithms. People are seeing huge numbers of people. All of a sudden magically appearing as followers. Other people are losing tons of followers. A bunch of people, not me yet, but a bunch of people have gotten emails saying their permanent Twitter bans have been removed and they should log into their accounts. Like all this stuff is happening right now. And I think because they know that if they don't do this and he's fleeing control, then what they've been doing will be made fully public. Not just the sort of assumptions about what they've been

Ben: 2:24:13

So the problem I have with that is they're in due diligence right now. And. So if they're in due diligence and I've been involved with some pretty big mergers in the past and so full disclosure, the last company I worked for bought another energy company and was a fortune 300 you know, publicly traded entity. So when I say I've been involved with some mergers and acquisitions, I've been involved with some mergers and acquisitions. My side was mostly on the technical due diligence portion of it, but there are some pretty heavy legal agreements that go into place when you go to acquire a company like this. And when you're in that due diligence phase, if there's any of that shenanigans, number one, it's going to cost Twitter a billion dollars. Number two, especially if they're. Rapidly changing things, which it appears that they are. I think that's some engineers. I don't think it's necessarily leadership. And I don't think it's necessarily systemic. I think that's some engineers going, I don't want to go to jail. So I, I don't know that all the records and all the evidence will just go away. I, I, I, I don't, I don't, I think it's too big.

Gene: 2:25:23

yeah. And, and, And I've also been involved in in this sort of stuff. So I I've been involved in the The. Separation of Amex. And the hell are they called? The Ameriprise financial. So as part of that and then also the separation of Marshall fields and target. Those were the two, two large accounts that I was involved in that And. and I mean, I I'm literally right now just concluding a sale of a company where we just finished due to. Jones last month. So I, I. do know a little bit about this topic as well. And I think that. While the, the. general legal threat is always there. On the boots on the ground side. If somebody needs to change, delete or hide something. Whether it's the it guy or, you know, the, the product developer, whoever. There is ample opportunity to do that. It's even done when the company's being sued by somebody, the shredders are going in full speed. Of course, these days, they're all digital, not real shredder. But certainly when it's not a government agency on the other side, when it's simply another private entity that you're merging or is buying your doing whatever. There's the, yes, we will comply and do this storyline. And then there's the reality and the reality quite often. Isn't presenting the same view. If something has to get wiped, something will be wiped and nobody won't be the wiser for it.

Ben: 2:26:57

Yeah.

Gene: 2:26:58

unless there's a whistleblower somewhere.

Ben: 2:27:00

And I guess my point of view is that when an organization reaches a certain size, that the ability to do that is reduced drastically. So one of the arguments I would say is I, I would say the reason why I think Aramco hasn't gone IPO is because there's too much cleanup work that they'd have to do to even consider it.

Gene: 2:27:21

And that's a very good reason for not doing the IPO. I I. The, in this case, the other element you have to keep in mind. Is that Twitter for many, many years. Has been hiring exclusively based on political. Disposition. If you want to work at Twitter, you're not going to get a job they're coming in as a conservative,

Ben: 2:27:44

I think as a conservative, you're likely to not want a job there. So

Gene: 2:27:48

That matches. Well, but the point I'm making is that. I'm not talking about some senior management saying quick guys, call the engineering department and have them start doing this. That's not happening. I agree with you on that. What is happening is individuals, but a whole lot of them throughout the company. Are doing things to save their necks. Like you like yourself just said, And those combined actions are going to erase massive amounts of data. That would point to the company. Doing what they've been accused of, but no one's ever proven.

Ben: 2:28:26

Yeah, but I, I guess what I'm saying is that there will still be memo. I, I, so I think it is systemic in Twitter. I don't think it, and here here's the thing. If it is just that because of their hiring practices and the culture at Twitter, that they have a shadow band and they've done this, if it's that, then I think you're right. It can be hidden, but I think it is more you know, I think it's more systemic than endemic and I think it is directed saying, Hey, we're going to make a conscious decision on how we're going to do it. If it's unconscious. And it's just the.

Gene: 2:29:04

politically with the guy saying, let's make this decision, there's no difference. I mean, if it was. a left the

Ben: 2:29:12

but in what's recorded.

Gene: 2:29:14

But if you're, if you're a lefty. Yeah. Well, fair enough. But if you're a lefty at the top and you're telling guys that aren't lefties. To put in certain algorithms, they may begrudgingly do it, but they're going to sure as hell talk about it or keep some records just justify saying I did this under duress. But if everybody in that department, Is even the further left than the senior leadership. Then they're, they're happy to do this. Great. We're now allowed to just completely fuck with anybody who doesn't tow the party line. Awesome. That's what we're going to do and push as hard as we can. All these people that are paid to effectively sit. And read tweets and disapprove the ones that they don't think follow the party line. What do you think these people have an unbiased opinion? No, they get hired because they have a biased opinion to do the job that requires a bias.

Ben: 2:30:06

I think the majority of the censorship censorship work at Twitter is actually not political. I think it, I think there's far more other things that are kept off of Twitter than probably just the

Gene: 2:30:22

Like what.

Ben: 2:30:23

You know, porn. you know, a lot of the certain types of porn. I think there's a lot of nasty shit that a lot of people post the, having had some friends that have worked on content moderation as a shitty job, they see a lot of stuff that you wouldn't want to see.

Gene: 2:30:42

Yeah, sure. Fair enough. But. Also politics.

Ben: 2:30:48

Absolutely. Yeah. And, and I think there are two classes of moderators too. I think that there are a subset of the moderators that work at Twitter that are focused on the political stuff. But I think the vast majority, when you look at the thousands and thousands of moderators that Twitter has, the majority of those are not politically

Gene: 2:31:03

Yeah. Like

Ben: 2:31:05

And I think a lot of it's algorithmic

Gene: 2:31:07

I there's, there's plenty for that for sure. But what benefit is it to accompany a private company like Twitter. Who. Can sell more ads when there's more engagement online. but our Facebook, et cetera. What benefit is it to them to limit conversation about topics that are controversial?

Ben: 2:31:28

I don't think it is. I think I, but I think it's go woke, go broke. I think that's why Twitter stock prices what it is. I think that's why Twitter is losing money at this point. Whereas had they just, I think 2016 was such a political. Detonation for the left, 2016 is really where they just lost their collective minds. Cause they were, you know, just after Barack Obama, they had just been walking down this road and oh, nothing's going to stop our progress. We're going to make this slow, steady progress. And it's just going to move over. And the, the, the conservative elements in the country, they're, they're not doing anything to oppose us. And then there was some opposition and they lost their collective minds and kept running as far and as fast as they could to left. And, you know, to today where we have you know, the conversations that we're having and the backlash is starting again. So I think it's, it is a case of go woke, go broke. I think that had Twitter not done the moderation that they did. I think it had. Not done the moderation that they've done, they would be far more profitable. I mean, just looking at what has been taken off of YouTube and Twitter

Gene: 2:32:39

Yeah.

Ben: 2:32:40

since

Gene: 2:32:41

Well, that that's kinda my point is that it makes no sense for companies to limit controversial topics. Like whether masks work not during the So consequently. The fact that they did this. It certainly seems that that somebody placed a higher value. On limiting speech for political reasons than they did on their profitability.

Ben: 2:33:06

Yeah.

Gene: 2:33:06

that would indicate companies like Twitter were not doing what they needed to do to ensure maximum value for investors for many years.

Ben: 2:33:16

But, the maximum value for the investor, isn't about Twitter's profitability. It's about the control. So if you look at the majority investors

Gene: 2:33:24

but by definition, not, not maybe what the investors want, but by the responsibilities of the board, it is only about financial benefits. They have had nobody else report an issue with the transcription stopping. At the

Ben: 2:33:43

Well, is there a trial license or something or something I can do on my end and see if

Gene: 2:33:48

you're not a poor dude. So here's what you want to do. Sign up for one month.

Ben: 2:33:53

Okay.

Gene: 2:33:54

Try it. See if you have the same issue net.

Ben: 2:33:57

would send me a link real

Gene: 2:33:58

send you a link. Yeah. It's descript as a software, but I will send you a link. And, and there's another thing that I can do, which I just haven't done because of my issues with the PC last week, which is I have a Mac mini sitting here that just needs to get set up. And it runs a, both on Mac and PC, so I can certainly try their Mac version. And see if that same issue happens or not. My guess is it probably won't happen. It'll probably work pretty seamlessly on the Mac. But for whatever reason and it looks, it may not be the software. It may be something as crazy as once every 90 minutes. There's something. That's causing the USB bus to reset. Which is making the audio. The audio, what the hell is this thing called? The. Not a processor. It's yeah, the multi basically making it briefly disconnect and then reconnect back on, which may be making the software. Think that you've now. Pulled out the mic and it stop recording automatically. I don't know, I have not. The problem is it doesn't happen in the first few minutes. It happens after. An hour and a half. And that's, that's the issue and the software doesn't quit. The software simply acts as though you had just hit the stop button.

Ben: 2:35:18

So. Have you done a test where you'll be recording and you've literally unplugged the motu. Does it stop?

Gene: 2:35:24

No, I only done that test.

Ben: 2:35:27

Well, that would be a good test. And then it might

Gene: 2:35:29

Should I do that right now. Let's wrap up the show and I'll do that right at the end. Instead of hitting the stop button, I'll actually unplug the mode two. And then everyone will have to wait until next episode to find out what happened.

Ben: 2:35:44

Sounds good to me.

Gene: 2:35:45

All right. So, we got anything else to cover or we good.

Ben: 2:35:48

I think

Gene: 2:35:49

This is a long episode, man, this is, this is probably more like a two and a half hour one.

Ben: 2:35:54

Well that's okay. It was one of those weeks where it's definitely justified. So.

Gene: 2:35:58

Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. All right, guys. Thanks for listening. All that good stuff. And I'm about to unplug the mail too. And we'll see if this stops automatically.