Sir Gene Speaks

0064 Sir Gene Speaks - with Dude Named Ben

March 29, 2022 Gene Naftulyev Season 2022 Episode 64
Sir Gene Speaks
0064 Sir Gene Speaks - with Dude Named Ben
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Gene:

Welcome to another episode of sir gene speaks with sir. A dude named Ben named Ben. How are you today? Ben?

Ben:

I'm doing well. Jean sitting here drinking coffee, talking to you.

Gene:

Well, that things could be worse, I suppose.

Ben:

Oh yeah. Especially if you're in the military today. Did you see the, uh, article I sent you on a Supreme court ruling?

Gene:

Yeah. I just read the title though. W What does what did it actually say?

Ben:

Yeah. So the, the Supreme court has ruled that, uh, they will not stay the Biden. Administration's forced vaccination of our armed forces. So, uh, there were only three dissenters and that's Alito, uh, Gorsuch. And then, um, uh, one other Supreme court justice it's slipping my mind, uh, Cavenaugh.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

Yeah. So

Gene:

Thomas ruled for

Ben:

Uh, it have to look at the article one more time and it may have been Thomas. Um, but regardless the point is that, um, it was funny because the Vox article I sent you, the, the headline was the Supreme court confirms that a Biden is commander in

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

which is obviously just clickbait nonsense and has nothing to do with the topic.

Gene:

Right.

Ben:

But, uh, yeah, religious exemptions will not be upheld currently. So it's just a stay. It's not the full-on trial hadn't gone through yet, but, uh,

Gene:

Well, You know,

Ben:

don't think it's a great timing given geopolitical events to potentially be changing the disposition of our armed forces.

Gene:

Yeah, well, it's, it's interesting Cause I can make arguments for both sides of that. I don't think that's a clear cut case. Um, Because joining the military I've argued in the past. Um, is not some mythical magical thing. It is a job. It's a job that you make by choice. We don't have a draft in this country. It is something that you do because you want to spend the next X amount of time. Doing this type of activity and getting paid for it. And having. No bills to really worry about while you're doing it. So it's not the best paying job by any stretch of the imagination out there. Um, it's not the worst paying job. But it is a job. And. We haven't needed a draft for a long time because there have been enough volunteers.

Ben:

Yeah. I mean, it's a social program in many ways, too. Right. Um, a lot of people who couldn't otherwise. Get that level of pay. do you know, there, there are two types of people who go into the military, those who want to, and those who from an economic stance almost half too. Um, so I I'd, I'd argue that a little bit and you know, the, the

Gene:

don't disagree with that. I think that goes hand in hand with what I said. It's.

Ben:

yeah. Uh, the, the point I'm making though, is that you do sign your life away to a large extent when you joined the military, right? You have military code of justice, things like that. You are under different laws than a normal citizen

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

that said, uh, you know, I think the forced vaccination and we can get into the efficacy of the vaccination or anything else, but, you know, my problem is the forced vaccination of any group of people I find problematic. Right?

Gene:

Well, I Yes. But let's say you want to work at a. Oh, I dunno, just to pull something randomly out of the air, a Ukrainian bioweapons facility. And, uh, Do that part of the condition of doing that job? Is that you have to get vaccinated for a whole bunch of stuff. Now you can not take the job and then get vaccinated. Or you can take the job. And then get the vaccinations that you need. Which. Theoretically are there to help you prevent from dying. If you do catch the disease.

Ben:

Uh, I, I will just tell you this. I recently changed jobs and ended up in a better position actually, but I left a fortune 300 company as a manager and the hive, very high level of cybersecurity program there. And it was over it. I decided to leave that company when the CEO told me that he, uh, didn't want to have to force vaccinations, but he thought he had the right. And now you don't. Um, you know, the, the problem I have with saying vaccinations are a condition of employment. I'm a capitalist, but what could you possibly give me from a contractual standpoint for me to alter my body for the rest of my life.

Gene:

Well, you as an individual, we know the price of that, which is nothing but you as a general term of people that. are applying for a job. The vast majority would be perfectly fine with that. If it means a better paying job and something that they're Willing to do because they, they don't think it's a big deal to do explanations. I mean, The way that you and I look at vaccinations, which is from a scientific standpoint. Is a tiny little percentage of the population. The vast majority of people really consider vaccination as a, not a big deal thing that, I mean, Christ kids get how many of them these days. Uh, just to be in school, not even that. Like a dozen or more. All right. So, but again, I'm talking about. The average population, not specifically you in this scenario. So I think, um, Uh, I think forced vaccinations are problematic. But vaccinations of the condition to something else. I can definitely make an argument for.

Ben:

Right. And that's where this military case bugs me so much. Right. Because you sign up for. your term and, uh, you are essentially at the wheel of your commanding officers. You know, you, you, you can't just quit. Right. I have the Liberty to be able to say to that CEO and to the company, um, that a mask and vaccination will not be a condition of my employment and go elsewhere. A soldier serving in the military cannot just resign their commission willy-nilly depending on where they're at in their term and so on. So it's, it's a harder question.

Gene:

Well, yeah, again. Let me make the counter argument here, which is they should have known when they signed up. This is by this vaccination is by no means the only vaccination that. The U S military. Uh, Yeah. I mean, it's, if you're going to be serving in Africa and some, you know, activity, whether it's the U S military or most other countries, You're getting malaria vaccinations, whether you want it or not. And some people are allergic to those and have horrible

Ben:

Well, it's one of those things that I'm reading that article this morning. I was very, uh, saddened that only three Supreme court justices. Descended at all to the, uh, lack of religious exemptions. Not that I think a religious exemption is a end all be all. I could have tried to go down that route with my company and I decided, no, it's just regardless of my personal beliefs, I do not want to go the exemption route at all because

Gene:

Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think. Carving out a religious exemption is sort of a big fuck you to anybody that doesn't have a religion, that forbids something. That's I mean they're, and this is, I, I think I sent you, um, like a month ago. Uh, a picture that I saw that was, um, from The The us Satan is church of Satanism or whatever. And, and the, where that picture came from was an article talking about. a large increase in the number. Of members. Due to the fact that that provides a religious exemption against COVID vaccine.

Ben:

Which is hilarious,

Gene:

is hilarious. Exactly. I think it's really funny, but, but I don't think religion seriously felt for me. It's definitely funny, but. Um, nonetheless. The idea that somebody would have to find some church in order to be able to get permission. It's like getting a permission slip that says my parents said that I, I don't have, like, for example, I remember when I was a kid that, uh, my parents signed a letter that says I was exempt. From uh, fluoride. So, uh, in back in the day, Uh, kids in elementary school. Uh, had to swish Florida, As, as like part of a, you know, school activity, I'm sure somebody thought it was a great idea. Oh, it was, it was the great state of Minnesota. The state that wants to be California.

Ben:

interesting?

Gene:

but it was, I'm sure somebody came up with this idea that not enough, poor kids are getting fluoride. Their teeth are horrible. Let's just make all kids. you know, swish around fluoride in the morning, every day at school to ensure that even if their parents aren't making sure they brush their teeth and stuff that we're providing some help. So all of these things, all these social. Socialistic things start off when somebody has a great idea. And in the great idea is meant to address some tiny fraction of a minority. By forcing the majority to do something.

Ben:

Well, and this comes back to the hilarity of this is I see it in gun owners. I see in lots of different people, they don't want to do something. So they'll find a way not to do it versus just saying no. Right. And I think that's the big difference is all these people who are trying for a religious exemption, why the hell do you think you need a religious exemption? Just saying, no, you have autonomy over your body or you don't. And you know, it it's, it's like gun owners who say, oh, well I lost them in a boating accident or I'll bury them or whatever. Well, if there's a national gun confiscation, maybe that's the time to, you know, use your guns or lose your guns. So.

Gene:

we go. We're going to get

Ben:

Yeah. If you thought conversations with me had any shot at monetization, your

Gene:

Yes. Yes. Uh, yeah, it. is I think a fairly common. human reaction to find a loophole rather than stand your ground. Most people don't. Want to actually be that person that stands his ground. Uh, they, they would like to just find some other alternative. And

Ben:

definitely social animals and standing up against the crowd is difficult. Right.

Gene:

Yeah, we're not wired that way, or most people aren't anyway.

Ben:

you got to at some point though,

Gene:

And then the, the loss of, um, support by society at large is a very heavy threat. Upon human behavior. Um, Now we we've seen the examples of the threat of, of loss of support go away in cities like Chicago and San Francisco that have defunded their police. And, and now are huge havens for criminal activity with no consequences. Um,

Ben:

Where do you stand on the defund? The police movement.

Gene:

Well as a sort of a libertarian within, a kiss leanings, I think it's hilariously great. But from a flip side, I do feel like part of what government is supposed to be. Is an agreement by the people that are part of that. Government or the people that are electing to have a government put in place to provide safety and the courts. When the courts aren't doing their job by following laws and just ignoring laws, that's a bad thing. And when a police that is being paid for by the populous. that put the government. up In the first place. Isn't doing their job. That's also a bad thing. So. I guess. Purely theoretically, there's nothing wrong with a group of people saying. Hey, man, we're a bunch of hippies and we don't want any police here and we'll just deal with the consequences ourselves. The problem is it's the 51% of the people that say that then the 49% are going, are you guys insane? This is going to wreck all of our lives. Um,

Ben:

the history of why police uniforms are traditionally.

Gene:

No, I don't think I do.

Ben:

So in London and, uh, I'll get into my opinion on the, uh, the found the police movement here shortly. So in London, when the first professional police force was being established, everyone was screaming about it being a occupying army. Right. Um, and you know, the British, uh, having good common law and not being too totalitarian, especially back in the day. Um, you know, traditionally policing was done actually by the church, the church, uh, precincts. Uh, had groups that would watch over the area and bring people up for trial, things like that. So you started to establish this professional police force and to distinguish themselves from the British red coat army, they chose blue uniforms to draw a strict line saying we are not soldiers. This is different. Um, now I, I posted years ago a meme, uh, then I had made, uh, which was just two black and white photos. One was of a typical soldier kitted out in Iraq and a typical police officer kitted out in the streets of America. And, you know, the question was spot the difference. And, you know, with the rise of the militarization of our police force, I think that policing has gone very far away from its original founding intent. Um, and quite frankly, as an occupying army in many, many ways, at least here in the United States, um, Yeah, I live in an area that has, that's a fairly small area yet. It has three SWAT teams. The county has a SWAT team. The university has a SWAT team and the town has a SWAT team. Um, I think that's a little excessive. So as far as defunding the police man, you know, other than the Sheriff's department and, uh, I think we ought to get rid of prosecutors too, and go to go back to all grand juries. If a grand jury does not seek to indict someone, you know, get, get away from this plea bargaining bullshit, and either take someone to trial or leave them the hell alone. But that's me.

Gene:

Sure. Well, and then you, you brought up sheriff, which I think is Uh, uh, by by many, many years, predates what you just described because the Sheriff's have been around in the UK for over a thousand years.

Ben:

Yes, the sheriff, but that's an elected position, right? It's not a professional police force. And I think that's the big distinction is because the people choose the sheriff and have the ability to ostensibly get rid of them. Whereas the police chief,

Gene:

Well, the people should be choosing the police chief through the mayor. Then. Right. I mean, the mayor gets through the biggest, so hire or fire the police chief usually. right?

Ben:

to an extent, but it's a bureaucracy, right? It's the distinction between a direct elected official and a bureaucrat. You know, uh, the bureaucrat has a lot of insulation from the people that they.

Gene:

Oh, absolutely. And yeah, bureaucracy, I think is the built-in force that prevents any single group of people, any nation from dominating culture and uh, uh, Well dominating its neighbors for sure. Over the course of many years. it, The bureaucracy. Uh, is what leads to most. nations downfall throughout history. So it is sort of the the antidotes to. Uh, unlimited growth and power. of a. Uh, uh, Of a nation state.

Ben:

Well, I guess that depends because of bureaucracy can also fuel the empire phase of a nation,

Gene:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, but that's a phase. Right. So they empire phase, begets the rebel Alliance.

Ben:

Yeah. Uh, uh, I heard a pretty good joke. The other day I tried a Wookie meet the other day.

Gene:

Really? Oh, wow.

Ben:

Yeah, it was chewy. Sorry.

Gene:

Uh, I should've seen that coming. God damn it. Yeah. I just walk right into that one. Yeah. Yeah. That it's

Ben:

yeah, the, the entire phase does a foment rebellion of some form or fashion, but you know, the, the, the question then becomes, how successful is that and what does it take? How does it take place? Right. I mean, Canada, what candidate didn't get their freedom to amend their own constitution without having to go back to the crown until the seventies or the eighties,

Gene:

Yeah. it was fairly recent.

Ben:

you know? So I mean, how insane is that? We

Gene:

But there's only like 12 people that live in camp.

Ben:

Yeah. but I mean, it's barely yet as a true independent nation, it's barely older than Ukraine.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. So really, I mean, Is it really Canada or just Northern United States?

Ben:

Well, you know, uh, the north American, uh, union has been on the table since the nineties. Right. And the marrow. So who knows with all the talk about the, uh, changing currency? Why not do it all at once?

Gene:

Yup. Yup. That's true.

Ben:

So,

Gene:

so sorry, just, can I ask you to. Add one more inch between you and the microphone. You're starting to peak out.

Ben:

how about that?

Gene:

Well, I mean, it sounds fine, but I was just nosing. you were getting right into the red here.

Ben:

Okay. Um, so Jean, I got a personal question for you

Gene:

Oh,

Ben:

where your parents Birchers

Gene:

Birchers I don't even know what that is.

Ben:

John Burgess.

Gene:

Oh, no.

Ben:

Yeah, it's just interesting because given my assumption around your age and the fluoride comment you made there, you know, they were some of the first to call out anything about

Gene:

Oh, yeah, no, they were, they were just, uh, They were both highly educated people. Um, yeah, no, both. Both of my parents said the master's in engineering. And, uh, you know, I I probably learned the scientific method before I learned to read.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

So if things that are done purely out of a. Group think didn't go over too. Well.

Ben:

Good. Good for them.

Gene:

Yeah. with. Which is also why I'm very saddened by the fact that my dad is. Uh, who is still alive is on the wrong side of the Russia Ukraine

Ben:

Interesting, uh, interesting. That y'all would have such a divide there, I guess, but your parents left the former USSR,

Gene:

Yep.

Ben:

So I can see that he would have a built in yeah.

Gene:

That's exactly what it is. It's. You know, Just about every other issue. It is a. a rational sort of intelligent, uh, perspective. And on this particular issue, it's like, well, Putin's, uh, you know, he's former KGB. heat just represents the thing. That my parents left. And so because of that, I don't think um, I don't think that in any conflict where Russia is involved. That my dad could see Russia being on the right side.

Ben:

You know, and this, this is interesting because it's something that I think, uh, we really are two countries passing each other in the night, as far as where we're going, because you know, Russia out of its empire phase, AK USSR, right. Um, which it's ironic that the communists and the Stalinist were more empire builders than, than the Zahra. And we really ever was right. The Russian empire, as far as history would dictate it. And you know, the czars, those RS empires really was pretty stable and confined right there, there was Austria Hungarian wars, things like that. Got it. But you know, it was not, it was not the expansionist nature that we saw out of

Gene:

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I mean, the Russian empire expanded every decade. If you look at the map, Uh, they conquered more territory as a result of wars. They, At people that were interested in willing and joining the empire for protection and other purposes. So it definitely grew. In the late phases of the Russian empire. Um, certainly when Nicholas came to power, Uh, Nicholas second, the. That had mostly run out of land. And so it was landlocked empire. Um, So the growth within communism. Was a, a spreading of political ideas. Uh, not so much that changing of the borders because. Communists. Uh, and I think probably Chinese communists as well as the Russians. really viewed the world as. Not really having real borders once communism can spread to the entire world. It will sort of naturally become a one world So the the borders that existed previously were not horribly important to the communist.

Ben:

yeah, I guess my comparison was the sheer amount of territory, ostensibly, under the control of Moscow pre communism, and then towards the end of the USSR, right. That's a dramatic

Gene:

not a dramatic though. I, I, I disagree with you that.

Ben:

Really come on, Warsaw pact, all of

Gene:

Yeah, I think that.

Ben:

ostensible control that they had. I mean, I would even put

Gene:

If

Ben:

Cuba as a vassal

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. But it Cuba's tiny. If you look at the land

Ben:

Cuba, China,

Gene:

well, China and Russia split very early on. They've had a very much a frenemy relationship. But if you, if you look at the landmass of the Russian empire right before communism, and the only thing that really got added uh, was the Eastern block. Uh, states that were really. Countries. Um, During the time of pre-World war one during the Russian empire phase. And then they sort of became clients, state countries. So they effectively acted not as independent countries, but as just states within the greater. uh, USSR. But that, uh, that if you include them, so Eastern Europe effectively. That probably only added about 25%. I mean, yeah. It, it.

Ben:

The largest nation in

Gene:

To the largest nation in the world. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I'm not saying it was a small. Raw amount of land, but as a percentage of the Russian empire to begin with, because the Russia empire covered, you know, even during the czarist times, I think it was 11 times zones. So it was always a large empire.

Ben:

back to the original point though, coming out of their empire phase, whether that was from the Zara. So the communist or whatever, what we see is a nation from my read. That is, I think a lot of people, especially the Russians still in Russia would have a visceral reaction to communism today. Right.

Gene:

Oh, the most Russians hate communism. There's a small group. That's always keeps trying to bring back the good old days back when we were all communists, But. most people aren't having it.

Ben:

exactly. So I think that there is for more of a. Visceral reaction to no, that's a really bad idea. And we know where that goes, then what we have here in the us. Um, I think the us has never really seen true communism and socialism at work in our own nation. And most people don't understand what that means. And, uh, as a result, you know, when I had someone young, uh, tell me the other day that, you know, in, in, in, in 2020, uh, in the 2020s, there's no reason for poverty. There's no reason why, um, you should, uh, you should have to be good at what you do to be successful. Literally, it was said to me, and, you know, they have no idea that there were a spousing communism.

Gene:

Have you recommended the read some marks as a result of that conversation.

Ben:

Yeah. Uh, my, my actual comment was, uh, you know, From each, according to his abilities to each, according to his needs is a noble and lofty thing. But, know, utopic ideas don't work in reality.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

So,

Gene:

Yeah. And that's it And that's exactly right, because they, the council. In fantasy is a wonderful concept. Well, you only use what you need And there's never a point at which there's not enough. Who doesn't want that. That's a great deal. But the problem is that you're dealing with the real world, not a fantasy world. And then the real world, all resources are not freely available in unlimited quantities.

Ben:

and humans are lazy.

Gene:

Yeah. Um, well, humans are both lazy and competitive and it it's it's that dichotomy that kind of determines the path of whole nations as well. Um, you know, there's a. There's a reason that during certain periods of time, Nations grow tremendously and start leading the way. And then after some years pass, Some other nation can it picks up the Baton of, of that. Leading the world and growth and in energy and everything Uh, so I think it is somewhat cyclical, but. If people were just purely lazy and not competitive. I think we would have all starved to death. Eons ago.

Ben:

True.

Gene:

Uh,

Ben:

you, have you ever read Adam Smith wealth of

Gene:

Sure of course.

Ben:

I think that the that's a good book for the times we're living in and especially with the inflation and the monetary systems that we have working for us. Right.

Gene:

Uh, you know, that's, this is, this is a good idea. Since I know you read a lot more than I do because lately the only thing I'm reading is. I'm listening to science fiction stuff. Just purely for enjoyment. And you're actually reading serious books. although I am still reading,

Ben:

I do both, but yeah.

Gene:

yeah. Yeah. I still am reading desk capital, but. We should add a segment to the show where you recommend

Ben:

Okay. Um, I've got a wreck. I don't know if I've recommended it to you yet, but definitely something. Uh, I got my parents to read recently. Have you ever read tomorrow? War? My jail born.

Gene:

No.

Ben:

So it's a fiction book and, uh, it is a bout an economic collapse, global economic collapse and the result in chaos. And

Gene:

Are you sure that's

Ben:

well. It may be prophecy. We will see, but, uh, given the current economic times and everything that's going on, I think, uh, I think a lot of people would enjoy it. It's fairly well written. It's a two book series. Uh, it's the, uh, Chronicles of max redacted and, uh, it's, uh, it's got some good political intrigue and, uh, some realistic stuff. There's one scene that struck me as just prophetic and it's, uh, FEMA has set up a few distribution and, you know, trying to get emergency supplies out, but because of recent crime in the area and so on, um, if you are on firearms purchase lists, so if you've ever bought a gun, you have to bring those guns in. Otherwise you don't get food.

Gene:

Oh, so like new Orleans.

Ben:

Yes, exactly. So, um, you know, it's one of those things that I can totally see that happening. Um, you know, It goes to why I am hesitant to do certain paperwork and get on certain lists, but

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Um, and then I think that there's actually. I'd say about a third of the people that I know that. Have guns. Don't buy their guns. Uh, in stores.

Ben:

right. Um, there, there there's, uh, there's plenty of people who have avoided FFL paperwork, but the problem there though, is have they ever bought AML online? Have they ever used a credit card to buy ammo? You know,

Gene:

No most of these people are loading stuff. So they're, they're going to their local gun shop buying powder and brass and

Ben:

Okay. Did they, did they use a credit card for that? You know, is then the question and how, how far down the rabbit hole do you go to have a quote unquote clean gun it's uh, you know, did you ever go to the range and, you know, pay with a credit card at a range or whatever, you know, there's lots of leaky information

Gene:

Yeah. I mean, anytime you're paying with a credit card. You need to have the assumption that those records are going to last for.

Ben:

Yeah. And, and potentially be used against you and, you know, people oftentimes when you, when I bring up the amount of government spying and what is going on, um, And when the Snowden controversies hit, I was shocked that there wasn't a revolution in this country. And in most people took the attitude, oh, I I'm not doing anything wrong. I have nothing to hide. And I find that to be a very naive view. You have nothing to hide from people you trust and that don't have malicious intent toward you because I don't care who you are. The fact that you think that nothing you do on a daily basis or semi-daily basis could be construed in a bad light. Given certain manipulations. I just find as naive.

Gene:

Yeah. it's the It's a, it's a very naive statement because the definition. Of what is legal and illegal. First of all. You don't know, nobody knows because we have how many thousands of pages of laws. that that are being passed without even the people passing the laws, knowing what's being passed. Uh, and it can change literally on a daily basis. So this idea that, well, I'm not doing anything wrong. So I have the absolute assumption as which is, I am absolutely doing stuff that is illegal and wrong. Um, But. I I choose to take that risk for convenience sake. So my eyes are they also, if I go and, and, uh, do something that's perfectly legal, like buying a firearm, but I fill out all the paperwork for it. I really don't worry about it because I've been doing that for 40 years. Uh, and there's been a trail of that paperwork for that long. So whether I, I stopped doing it now or continue. Buying a gun and filling out paperwork really doesn't make any sense. Uh, cause there's already a huge paper trail out there with my name on it.

Ben:

You know what w what was the communist leader? I I'm blanking, but he said, show me the man, and I'll show you the.

Gene:

Yeah, that sounds familiar. I can't remember who it is either.

Ben:

Uh, well, you know, one of the

Gene:

Uh, but it's a true statement.

Ben:

Well, it is, and you know, here's the thing is it doesn't even have to be necessarily a crime, like look at Trudeau Trudeau. He's a laughable character in many ways, but you know, appearing in black face when he did that in college, I'm sure No one thought a thing about it. Right. And it wasn't something and you can take whatever position you want on whether or not it's wrong or not. But at the time it was generally socially acceptable, but now it, depending on your politics could be used to absolutely cancel you. And it's one of those things that we judge things based off our current reference, not the reference of the time, all to.

Gene:

Yeah, Uh, that is a good point. And, uh, I can't. I mean, Looking at what happened with Trudeau And there being no consequences whatsoever for him as a result of that. As a result of imposing martial law.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

Really diminishes my faith in the Canadian people.

Ben:

Yeah. Um, I mean, I had hopes for the truckers. I had hopes that that would do something, but ultimately, um, it didn't, and you know, I, I think that it's asymmetric warfare in many ways because government government has the ability to use violence without the repercussion.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

And anyone who thinks that, uh, you know, government is my definition force. It is violence. Um, in any time that you are held, um, anytime you are held to the standard of, if you do not comply with our will, you will either be shot arrested, uh, or fined to oblivion. You know, that's a pretty heavy hand and that that's the nature of government. Um, but it that's the problem I think we're facing right now is if the truckers engaged in violence, you know, the people would turn against them and it would be bad. However, the Canadian police arresting people, seizing property, taking away livelihoods, threatening the children of, uh, you know, of these protestors. There is really such a disparity in the ability to. Seek that redress of grievances today because our society has moved to a point where we see violence is not the answer. And, you know,

Gene:

Yeah. When are we going to fix that?

Ben:

how do we fix that?

Gene:

Y Elance is the answer? It's always been the answer. It's the way that things are built to be changed. And so the only thing that you're promoting. or promulgating. When you say violence is not the answer over and over to multiple generations, it's compliance.

Ben:

yes. And you know, I, I think that, you know, people often quote Kennedy, those who make peaceful revolution, impossible, make violent revolution inevitable. I don't know. I'm not convinced of that. I don't know that the generations that we have today will, would ever stand up and say this far, no farther. And if you try it. Uh, I I'm, I'm not going to comply. This is worth my life. And, you know, I think that we've gotten to a point where our society is fat and happy in many, many ways. And

Gene:

that's about the chain.

Ben:

no doubt, I just worry

Gene:

When Biden says that. Uh, food shortages are coming. What that really means is starvation is coming

Ben:

Yeah. And so I, yes, potentially, um, it will be interesting. I think Africa is definitely going to get the worst end of this deal. Um, I think Russia and, uh, you know, Russia produces enough to feed itself, uh, and Europe, uh, for the most part, I think Europe will get a very raw deal. The U S produces S the U S produces a lot of our own food. We will not

Gene:

problem with the U S The problem with the U S is that we've taken. Uh, what is land that can and has produced food? And moved it to producing ethanol. And ethanol that is. A a worse energy delivery. Uh, chemical than gasoline. And in the name of environmentalism, we've decided that we're going to. Uh, take land that should be producing food and then produce. Bad fuel.

Ben:

Well, it is producing food, right? It is the most ethanol comes from corn and corn subsidies. Um, so it is food that is now in competition

Gene:

Well, I would argue with you about corn being food, because most people can't actually, they just, it

Ben:

Yeah. Well, we can get into whether or not wheat and corn and rice and someone, um, Viable foods for optimum human health or not, but it is a calorie delivery system. And when we're talking about potential starvation and things like that, I

Gene:

Oh, yeah, people will eat corn if they're starving.

Ben:

right, I think that corn wheat and rice production in the U S is enough to ensure that the majority of the U S population will, we will have a huge calorie reduction, but

Gene:

Yeah, so we'll get healthier.

Ben:

yes, to an extent. But what people have to realize is the U S the average person lives on such a high end of the calorie spectrum compared to the rest of the world. Um, you know, most the African nations, you know, 1600 calories is a lot. And, um, you know, uh, a drop in 500 to a thousand calories puts you at starvation level.

Gene:

Yeah, Yeah, no, that's true. And obviously I am being a little hyperbolic here in talking about. Actual starvation, but I think. The idea that. That. Steak that maybe you you're used to having, uh, you know, once a week or something that right now costs $18. Uh, a lot fewer people are going to be eating that steak once a week. When the price of that steak is $85.

Ben:

Yeah. Well, I mean, when you go back to before the great depression and, you know, Roosevelt, uh, you know, a chicken in every pond before a lot of the revolutions that came out of the great depression and poultry science, you know, most people didn't eat meat at every meal in the United

Gene:

Right.

Ben:

Um, That was a pretty recent change. And I, I think you're going to see a forced, uh, return to that of, you know, um, not necessarily a vegetarian diet, but a diet that is, uh, far less in protein.

Gene:

Yeah. Uh, or animal protein anyway. Yeah. It's. In fact, I can't remember who it was. I think it was somebody in Europe. Um, Came out, I think, uh, Yeah, I think it was coming out of the U and I can't remember who said it. Some woman. But talked about like seven things that people are going to have to start changing. One of which was the. Uh, the idea that, uh, Meat is something that is consumed on a regular basis because that while meat is very good. for you. And I say to somebody that is essentially on that caveman diet, where I eat a steak every day. So I'm a little biased I'm willing to admit. Uh, but. The, the amount of land that it's required to raise a thousand pounds of cow. Uh, is certainly. Much more than would be required to have the equivalent amount of calories. Coming directly from

Ben:

Yeah. I mean, there's a loss in the system there, right? Because you

Gene:

it's a concentration and loss. So it's like a reverse osmosis filter. You you get pure water on one end, but on the other end, you're dumping half or more water. Out. than the actual amount that is filtered through.

Ben:

Right. Um, go ahead.

Gene:

No. I was just going to say so that's, that's why, you know, if I just think of a cow as a filter. and a.

Ben:

and it's certainly interesting to see the effects of protein. You know, I mean, animal protein is required for brain development And, growth. Right. That's one of the things we see in human beings is in, you know, if you think of an evolutionary biology, you know, when, when our ancestors theoretically started eating meat is when we had this explosion and mental capacity. And we can, you can be on either side of that argument, but the fact is. You definitely need complete complex proteins for your brain development, especially when you're young. So, um, I don't know. I guess it's a, more of a war on our children yet again, right. Between masks and everything else. Um,

Gene:

Or just the war on population.

Ben:

yeah. Well, if the Georgia Guidestones are to be believed, right, we're, we're 90% population reduction.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Which I w do you have any thoughts about the origins of.

Ben:

uh, you know, um, I have plenty of speculation, but I don't think there's much concrete evidence that would point to, you know, fully anything. But, um, I definitely think, uh, some of the news media, um, was involved, I think, um,

Gene:

So you think it was Ted Turner's, which you're saying.

Ben:

I think Ted Turner was highly involved. Yes. Especially given where

Gene:

I I pulled that right out of there.

Ben:

I think there's a lot of evidence that he is involved. Yes.

Gene:

Yeah. And that's, I think the only thing that we can know with certainty is that this, this project did come out of. People that had a lot of extra money laying around. Uh, because it is cheap to be able to put something like that together. And so whatever is written. Yeah, exactly. And It's doubly not as cheap and secret. And so whatever is written on there, whether it was just a, a smart ass joke that they thought would be hilarious that people would be talking about for, uh, ages afterwards, which people are. Or whether it was some serious. You know, um, Bit of. a desire that was, they want to pass down. regardless of what the actual intent was. This could not be accomplished by people that were even just, you know, Seven figure millionaires. These were. Nine figure millionaires that were involved. Or, you know, building.

Ben:

Well, you know, it's a interesting question on whether or not it's just a practical joke or is it a group of people that have the hubris to. Publicly declare something like that. And you know, most people, if you have some average person on the street, what's the Georgia Guidestones, they have no clue. So there's that too.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ben:

So

Gene:

I love those men on the street interviews. that A few of the comedians do Political comedians.

Ben:

yeah,

Gene:

Like mark what's his face.

Ben:

it's easy to do. And cherry pick things to the point where, you know, everybody looks stupid,

Gene:

But. But there was a, he had a segment that somebody is in hearing him. man, And say, okay, come on. You. You totally cherry pick these interviews, he says, you know what? It has gotten so damn easy lately that we don't really need to anymore. We just go out in the street, we'll do seven interviews. We'll use five.

Ben:

yeah,

Gene:

almost all of them are exactly what people are

Ben:

you know, the, the, the sad thing is what that says about our education system, but, you know, um, you've got Darren doing this whole lemon thing and you, I asked you what it was. And

Gene:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Lemon.

Ben:

So since we were talking about your caveman diet,

Gene:

Yeah. Yes. And so it is, I mean, I don't think I'm using any specific diet. What I've. What I'm doing is essentially an incidentally I'm on a cheat week, that's just wrapped up. So today is my first day back on the diets. After seven days off to that. But, um, for the preceding couple of months, uh, what I was doing and what I'm starting back up on today. Is a, a pure meat diet. That includes any red meat. And my particular preference lately has been bison. I really have a million enjoying eating bison. Both in form of steak and a bison Um, they're very tasty. The. What I found about two years ago, two or three years ago. I tried. and the carnivore diets, caveman carnivore. essentially an all meat diet. Um, just to see what it, like, I decided I'm going to do it for a month. I'm going to eat no vegetables, no fruits. No. Pastas, no, literally nothing else. Other than red meat. And what I discovered is it was really fricking good. Um, I had. A very. Consistent. Constant energy level throughout the day. I had no upper down as I've experienced in the past with, uh, just a normal, you know, typical diet. where you, you might eat a lot of. uh, A lot of combination of carbs fats and protein. But eating purely proteins and fats. I found the energy levels were very consistent. Um, I, started losing weight not like at a huge rate, but maybe. Maybe a pound the every week or so, maybe a little less than a pound a week, but consistently. And I had plenty of energy. And the other thing that I do, and I've done this for a long time. Is I only eat once a day. So it's a, um, Uh, I guess people would describe it these days. As intermittent fasting. I've been doing this since, before it was called intermittent fasting. Although I have been doing it intermittently meaning. I'll do it for like a year and a half, two years. And then I'll have some events happening. Like I'm traveling a lot for work. I have to meet with clients and take them out to eat and stuff. And for like two, three months, I'll just eat multiple times a day. And then I'll go back really what is more of my standard, which is just eating once a day. Uh, so. Combined eating once a day with eating only red meat. And there's clearly only one thing missing from that. And that is lemons. And so I seen a video where a doctor talked about the, uh, Uh, the, the fact that most people are not getting the real nutrients out of lemons because the majority of the, uh, the. Minerals vitamins. The. The stuff that your body will actually utilize. That's in lemons. Is in the rind. And so. It's the part that you throw away. It's the skin and the rind. And so you're only getting the asset in the lemon. In the form of the juice. A little bit of sugar in there, a little bit of flavoring, but it really. For the most part you're throwing away. The majority of what's in the And so his recommendation was, if you have a high high-speed blender, like a Vitamix or a Blendtec. Um, You can just check a full lemon in there. You don't even have to cut it up. Put a, just a little bit of some kind of liquid uh, water is the simplest. Uh, but it could be something else I don't. Darren does. Um, He likes uh, almond milk. He puts a little bit of that in there. And this. Blend it up for a minute or so, and amazingly what you get. Uh, and I just use water. I do the very most basic recipe. I put water in there. Just a little tiny bit of salt. And then, uh, a whole lemon. Uh, washed lemon because it is covered in wax.

Ben:

So the salt to cut the, and even further.

Gene:

No, that's all just cause I don't get enough salt, my daily diet. So I just try and salt everything. Cause I, I, when you only once a day. And when you eat a high caloric food, like steak. Um, it's almost a struggle to get enough salt to get the, for your normal bodily functions. Uh, cause you know, most people eating regular American food have way too much salt intake because almost everything contains salt. Eating this way, you're getting very little salt. And so I try and solve everything that I eat or drink. Um, except for tea. I don't salt. The tea because tea would taste funny with salt water. But, um, Anyway. So I just put a dash of salt in there. if I wanted to add some flavor and I don't do this, but I would probably just put a leaf of mint in there as well. And then blend it all up together. And then none of it would be a little minty tasting as well, but we ended up with it really just tastes like a frothy, lemonade and frothy with just water without any kind of milk type substance in there. because that, that white sort of rainy stuff. Uh, that normally is part of the skin. When it's all blended up, it does sort of create a frothiness about it.

Ben:

So, I guess what benefits of that are you and Darren seeing since you've got him doing it too?

Gene:

Well, I was shocked when he started doing it. Cause I was telling it to him just as an, you know, here's yet another weird thing that gene does. Next thing I know

Ben:

There's a little bit of lists there. Yeah.

Gene:

Ah, There is A little bit. Uh, next thing I know he's telling me that. Yeah, I'm really liking this. Then he's like, yeah, my wife's doing it now too. I'm like, Jesus. I didn't intend to try and convert people to do, it, but try it, the other benefit. So the part of the benefit is you're, you're getting. Some natural source of vitamins. And I suppose if all that I'm eating, other than that, No, no vegetables of any kind, nothing is just meat. Now I do take a boatload of supplements. I mean, like. At this point, I think I take about 18 or 20 pills No. And so I may be slightly overdoing it, but again, what I'm doing is I'm ensuring that I, my body has the adequate supply of anything that I would normally beginning. If I was eating a more balanced diet, um, I'm just doing it all. You know, in very small quantities in the Palm of my hand, in the morning. And then I'm just eating the steak. Uh, in the afternoon. And I'm about to. Go have a, uh, a one pound filet mini on right after we're done recording. So.

Ben:

Very expensive diet.

Gene:

Well, it is. And, and that's, uh, just to jump back in time. So two years ago, whenever I was doing it, there was only really. One main reason. And one secondary reason that I stopped. So after doing it for a month, I thought it was great. I kept on doing it and I got it for another month. And on about the 70 day mark or so I had two things. That kind of made me decide to go and broaden my food intake again, one of which was. I had at that point cooked. Uh, my steaks every possible way. I can imagine. And I was just getting bored. Like there was not enough variety involved. Um, and I, I sort of have fixed it this time around by. Altering the type of red meat that I'm eating. And then when I was doing it,

Ben:

in by sun and everything

Gene:

Yeah. bison and, um, uh, elk and all kinds of stuff. Venison. Yep. And in the past I was just doing cow. So I just sort of maxed out the, the variety of ways of cooking steak. And then the other thing was. Uh, it was. It was definitely a factor. It was not the main reason, but it was definitely a factor. Is that on this diet? Uh, my, my average cost of the one meal that I was eating a day. was in the $50 So I'm spending 50 bucks to eat once a day. And then cooking myself. And, uh, like if anything, that price has probably gone up between two years ago and today. But, um, Uh, but yeah, I was just basically just buying tenderloins, uh, over and over and just making filets every single day. Right now I'm alternating more to have variety of both types of red meat. As well as sometimes I do hamburgers. Sometimes I do a steak. Uh, sometimes while I'd say most of the time, if it is a steak, I'm doing a Tenderloin. So either filet or some other preparation of that, and occasionally doing. Other cuts of meats as well. Um, but I am very partial to the tender line. I mean that's. If I had to pick one thing to eat. Which this diet kind of is picking one thing to you. Um, this, that would be it. And it's, it's the only meeting that I opinion that I can eat raw. And, uh, and do it over and over and over again. Like it's. there, There's no other kind of meat that. I can. Either successfully eat raw or eat the same cut over and over and over. Whereas the, uh, the filet. I'm perfectly happy doing that. All day long. Um, But the, what the lemon does. Cause that was the original question is I think it adds just enough. Of a. Uh, you know, An aromatic element. Yeah, cause that's really what, what fruits have, or even the vegetables to a large extent. And why we use them in cooking is, is the aromantic element. Like it brings in flavors that literally do not exist in meat. Uh, and, and so having a lemon drink. Really kind of. Makes that work well for me.

Ben:

So when you're preparing your meat, you're not using the, you know, like garlic and

Gene:

Only salt, only

Ben:

salt. man. I couldn't cook like that. I just couldn't. I am a, I am a seasoned my steak kind of guy.

Gene:

I, I hear ya. Yeah. And there

Ben:

like I, I make a rub that I use for pretty much everything. That's a half Lowery, seasoned, salt, half a pepper by volume. Uh, mix that up. And then I add probably by volume to that, make sure a third garlic powder and a little bit of herbs and that just gets thrown on pretty much everything.

Gene:

Yeah, that, that definitely sounds tasty. And again, it's not like I'm not as pure as this time around as I was couple of years ago when I first tried doing it. Because I want to just continue doing this diet indefinitely with occasional Um, and, and what happens when I have the break is like that's the week that I'll eat some pasta, that's the week that I'll actually eat some bagels stuff that I always used to enjoy, but I don't do on this diet. Uh, so. I I guess right before this last week, which was the break. I think I went for about three months. Uh, on just meat. And. So now I'm back to just me. And like on Monday, I've got a business lunch I got to go to, but we're going to go to chow. So I'm going to get to just. Eat, just meat. And my lunch meeting. Uh,

Ben:

go. Brazilian steakhouse for the wind.

Gene:

yeah. exactly. So there there's plenty of ways the biggest. You know, The biggest problem with going to Fogo. Is having the willpower to avoid eating the little cheesy bread things. Because there's something that got there.

Ben:

Yeah. Well, and they've always got a good salad bar

Gene:

yeah. And that's the irony. I've always thought it was hilarious. Is that one of the best salad bars in any city? Is at a meat place?

Ben:

exactly. The majority of people just are like salad bar. What? Yeah. Um, so, you know, it's interesting because I I've explored a lot of diet Teri changes. And one of the biggest things for me a few years ago was, uh, I stopped using canned vegetables. So, um, I, I was working, I was doing, um, outages at power plants and securing control systems doing lots of fun and interesting things that I'm sure we'll talk about more as this goes on. But, um, I was working one particular outage. It was a reef pit of a power plant and the control system. And. You know, putting in some actual cybersecurity around it. And, um, it was a long, long slog. This project was, we were, we had 30 days and to do, you know, millions and millions and millions of dollars of work. And, um, so we're talking 12 hour days, seven days a week for extended periods of time. And I got to where I was drinking two pots of coffee plus energy drinks daily. Right. And I was just brain fog and just worn out and. I'm probably the heaviest I've ever been. And, uh, I made some dietary changes. I did some supplementation changes and I dropped down to under a pot of coffee a day and I'm still there and I lost 30 pounds and it was just a massive difference. And the big thing there was doing some iodine, supplementation, some hormone things, and getting off the canvas doubles and come to find out, um, you know, most canned goods have a BPH liner that is an estrogen mimicker, right? So it was totally dietary induced hormonal issues for me and few changes and boom, there you go. Um, and it was a rapid enough, uh, rapid enough change by just making these few changes that within. A few weeks. It was just dramatic changes in energy levels and everything else. I mean, I literally, from within two weeks, I cut back on the coffee and the energy drinks to the point where I had a case of monsters that I ended up giving to some of the power plant guys, you know, like here y'all drink these. I don't need them anymore. So it's amazing to me how powerful diet changes can be. And it's one of those things that people don't realize how big of a change it can have on your mental state, not just your body, not

Gene:

Oh, yeah.

Ben:

weight loss or things like that, but your mental clarity and ability to think.

Gene:

It is a huge thing. And I can't remember if you had the codes or not. Uh, I had. Uh, codes About two, three months ago, something like that, whatever it was. and

Ben:

my wife, my parents, And. I had it last October.

Gene:

Okay. Yeah. And there was a couple of things. One was definitely the brain fog. Which I think everybody knows is, but, um, the other thing that I wasn't really. uh, Like. I didn't realize it was going to be the case. Was I. Completely had no appetite during COVID. And so I had, uh, I think it lasted for about 10, 11 days, right around there for me. So it wasn't quick. Um, and by the symptoms, it looked like I had Delta in that armor crown. And. Going, uh, through the period of time with no appetite. Where for literally the first time in my life. I had to remind myself to eat something. Like, oh, I haven't eaten yet today and sorry, 8:00 PM. I should probably eat something. And the only thing I would want to eat. But I would open up like a six ounce yogurt. Uh, and then eat half of that and put it back in the fridge. And then go back to sleep. Cause I was sleeping like a good 20 hours a day during

Ben:

Yeah. So it hits you pretty

Gene:

Oh, yeah, Yeah. it was definitely hard. Um, So.

Ben:

that you would choose for a respiratory illness to eat something that would aid in mucus production.

Gene:

Um, well that's because, well, that's, that's a good point, but. I was trying to eat anything that I could think of that. I didn't have a negative reaction to mentally like.

Ben:

Right.

Gene:

Like I also, um, I bought, I think raspberries for the first time in about nine months at that point as well. And because I just had, like, if I'm mentally look thinking of different foods, most of that reaction during COVID was like, eh, don't really want that. Don't want that. And then.

Ben:

I think the biggest impact there is the impact on your sense of smell. Right? So.

Gene:

You know, people say that I never really had a reduction in smell, or if I did, it was very gradual and gradually came back. So it never really, I never had a noticeable reduction in

Ben:

Yeah, I, I, my mom was the same way. I didn't really notice a difference in smell. Just really the, where I noticed it was taste. Um, but my, my wife was pregnant at the time and had a huge shift in her sense of smell. Right. Having it going from pregnancy knows and you know, very sensitive, uh, nose to nothing. Right. So she noticed that right away.

Gene:

Interesting. Yeah. Um, So, yeah, so for me, the like during COVID I lost like 25 pounds. And, uh, and my stomach got used to not having much food in there. And so once. COVID went away. Uh, I no, I wish I did. No. Hell no. I, I, kinda tried to for a while, but then I was like, oh, you know, I actually, like I have an appetite, I'm going to order some and then I would order a pizza. And normally I'd order like two pizzas need one. you know, That day, and then I'll have the other one in the fridge for the next day. And after COVID I would eat like a slice and I'd feel full. And I was like, God, it, So I, I have to put the rest of the pizza away and then. The next day, I'd eat a slice. And then I was like, well, I don't want pizza anymore. So I'd throw away a whole pizza. That normally would have been gone within. 24 hours. Uh, that. So.

Ben:

whole pizza to oneself. Now, are we talking like a, you know, uh, a a mod pizza, like a little, you know, 10 inch personalized pizza or

Gene:

12 inch pizza. What do you not eat a pizza?

Ben:

no, I won't eat a

Gene:

As you feel, you figured out how many people you have, and then you ordered that number of pizzas. That's usually how the rules go.

Ben:

That seems excessive.

Gene:

It's it probably is about 4,000 calories. That's okay. But, uh, but to be fair, uh, I I'm ordering. the, the thin. Style pizza, the, uh, you know, cracker style pizza in that. that The thicker stuff. So there's less dough involved, but yes. Point taken. But again, like my brain had remembered though. Oh yeah. I used to love pizza. Let me order. A couple of pizzas and like, you know, A couple of different flavors and I'll have some for tomorrow. And, and the body was like, uh, yeah, no, we got room for a slice in here and that's about it.

Ben:

It's definitely interesting how fast your stomach will change. Right.

Gene:

It's. Yeah, totally.

Ben:

Americans are used to.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

that's one thing that maybe will change if Biden's predictions hold true. But, uh, unfortunately I don't think it's just Biden's predictions. Um, so back to the geopolitics of

Gene:

Oh, okay. I thought we were still talking about lemons.

Ben:

what do you think the, uh, so, you know, I, I see this as an interesting dichotomy because we have BlackRock coming out and saying that this Ukraine thing is the end of globalization and I've always been anti globalist. So I'm like,

Gene:

a good thing.

Ben:

Yeah. But, well, except when someone like BlackRock is saying it, that makes me go, okay, what the hell did I just miss? Right. Um, so I think we have some interesting warring groups that are, you know, new money, old money is a divide that Mo has used. And I don't know if That's the right level of analysis. There's definitely, uh, some things going on that won't be good for us. And the best thing I can figure out thus far is we've gone down this path of globalization and now they're needing the great reset because well, the banks have printed all the money in the house of cards is starting to fall in on itself. So now we're going to go back to instead of a globalist, oh, you know, out theory of war sort of thing. right. Um, to the next cold war, right.

Gene:

Uh,

Ben:

At the very

Gene:

To some extent, I don't know that it's really going to be the next cold war because the us will not be the dominant superpower anymore. And so when it's not the dominant superpowers that are at war, It just doesn't matter nearly as much. Um, I think. Uh, that the. The outcome of what's happening right now. That if people want to draw a line in time, you can say when, uh, when Russia came into Ukraine deliberated, Um, See what I did there. So. Uh, if you want to draw the line at that, I think the big thing that, that has become very, very evident. Is the downfall of the United States from a financial economic standpoint. And the rise of China as the primary superpower in the world.

Ben:

I don't know that that's written in stone at this point yet.

Gene:

Well, we can wish for it, but I'm pretty sure Biden will ensure it is going to be written. So. because so far

Ben:

lot of powerful interests that don't necessarily want the downfall of America. Right.

Gene:

A lot fewer than you think. If you, if you look at what's going on outside of the United The majority of people are actually raw riding The fall down of the United States, because there is. Uh, outside the United States and and outside of, um, people that play with the United States. And what I mean by that are the political class, the, the rich effectively. Um, outside of that. Most people really see the United States and have seen the United States. As a bully. It's, It's a country that talks about their exceptionalism, their, their uniqueness in the world, to be able to do things on a utilitarian or unilateral basis. Without consideration for what those actions represent to other parties. So in some sense, while talking globalism United States is very much been acting. In its own interest. And it's been able to do that because it has been the economic force that it has been for so long. In a large Fort because of the petrodollar, because it is the currency of the world, or has been up to this point. And that just simply the currency of the United States. Uh, the problem is that the United States has outsourced. All of its production. And has been buying raw materials. And the only thing that the United States does, and I think it's. Kind of summarized on every apple product that you buy and I buy all of them. Unfortunately but I'm just, I just like the apple aesthetic a lot more. Is the designed in California. Little imprint on every box. Because what it's telling you is we don't actually make anything. We just come up with ideas for what things should be, and we're damn good at And they're products that sell well and people like to use. But we couldn't build it. If our lives depended on it here.

Ben:

Right. But what I'm getting at is, so we have these powerful interests that are potentially saying, okay, in the globalization let's regionalize again and Russia, you're going to be with China, India, and so on. And then the rest of the world is, you know, we're going to have an east west divide,

Gene:

I don't think we are I think we're going to have a north America versus the rest of the world. Do I.

Ben:

that will be a very interesting position for us to be in. But given that

Gene:

that. we were in prior to world war one,

Ben:

well, but prior to world war II, the U S was pretty isolationist.

Gene:

And we're going to end up being there and I, the United

Ben:

I don't think that's a necessarily a bad

Gene:

No, I don't, I don't think it's a bad thing. It's a painful thing, but it may not be a

Ben:

Yeah. Yeah, it definitely will be painful for us. And what I would say is that if we can rebuild the economy, We definitely have the natural resources for it. Well, you gotta,

Gene:

we, we have unused natural resources and no factories. So we have to rebuild a lot to get there, but it's probably for future generations, it's probably going to be a good thing.

Ben:

well, and you know, here, here's the thing that we, we have the ability to produce quite frankly, cheaper energy than anyone else in the world. If we would let our companies do it, um, we have enough coal to provide for all of the energy and steel production needs for several hundred years in the U S coal alone, not to mention natural

Gene:

Yeah. And when you have natural gas for eons.

Ben:

Yes. And, you know, um, Which we can get into the false fuel argument, but coal can be done cleanly. Um, there are several clean plants. Uh, literally one of the, one of the power plants that, uh, my former company owned, uh, they had to, they had to go to a Sims company, which is continuous emissions monitoring systems and invent a new mercury analyzer because the mercury removal rates were so low, right. Um, that you can do clean coal. You have the Kemper county project in Mississippi where they're trying to do a syn gas, uh, and be able to burn, uh, a coal syn gas in a combined cycle unit.

Gene:

Yeah, I read about that. Yeah.

Ben:

So there's lots of cool things. Um, it's just, do we have enough of runway to try and bring in, you know, it would, the, by the administration is doing with the chip production here in the us, right. Bring in enough resources and build up enough of an economy here before the utter collapse.

Gene:

Yeah. And that's the

Ben:

is. it going to be the build back better from the ashes?

Gene:

don't know how fast of a collapse it will be. It may be a gradual downward spiral. It may be an abrupt thing. I don't know. I can't predict that. The one thing I will say is that. With countries like India, China and Saudi Arabia talking about not using petrodollars and using other currencies, whether it's the ruble or the, uh, Uh, the rupee or, you know, the Remi or whatever. Doing deals in that money means we have a. We're going to. why don't we Don't just have, but we're going to see the consequences. Of a massive volume of dollar supply that is no longer needed.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

It's it's, uh, I mean, I don't see a way how that doesn't lead to mass inflation.

Ben:

Well, it, it, it will, but here here's the thing. Those other countries have those dollars there. Um, you know, uh, they, they have those dollar reserves. Um, they can choose to stop using them, but that doesn't mean, I mean, then it's. just a stagnant resource that,

Gene:

Well,

Ben:

you know, it doesn't necessarily

Gene:

it, These resources are going to be sold on, Forex. And then the price will keep dropping, which is inflation. So if right now, uh, so. look,

Ben:

if, Americans choose to buy those dollars back yes. In some

Gene:

anybody chooses to buy in the end, for as well, we're not at a point yet where you can't buy gold with dollars. Maybe we'll get there where it's literally. Impossible to be. actual commodities with dollars. But at that point, we're in the YMI Republic where we're hauling. You know, truckloads of money to go buy a piece of bread. Um, but right now, As the global demand for dollars drops. Uh, You know, it's, it's going to leave an excess of dollars on those exchanges. Which will drop the value of the dollar compared to every other currency. Which domestically may not have a huge, immediate effect, but it will absolutely have an effect when it comes to trade. And the, and the United States. has been importing. Uh, S for so long, we've been importing way more than we export. Like there's straight deficits with pretty much every country. Uh, because we're really good at designing products in California. And then not doing anything after that the initial inside the country. We want to do all of that. In places where we don't have to worry about cheap slave labor in places that don't have people that want a better. Uh, climate. And so they can spew pollutants into rivers. I E. China. You know, we, we just don't do things domestically and the price we're going to pay for that. Is going to be very evident very soon as the collapse happens.

Ben:

do you think so previous administrations, anytime someone. Openly said anything about training oil in anything, but the petrodollar, you know, I, he could Offy and the gold back DNR,

Gene:

Yeah, we just took them

Ben:

know? Exactly. So what I would say there is it's interesting to me, uh, I saw a, uh, I think I sent it to you. I saw a video yesterday that, uh, was circulating and it was an attack on a Saudi oil storage facility and they were blaming it on Hootie rebels. And you know, it, it was a missile attack. And back of my mind, I'm going, was it the Hutus or was it us, or was it proxy? And, you know, are we going to

Gene:

What wait didn't she know, that the United States was always friends with

Ben:

Oh Yeah. Uh, but my question is, are we going to quote unquote, allow China, India, and Russia to move away from the petrodollar? Or are we going to say, if you do that, there will be consequences. I, uh, I could offer you.

Gene:

We're running out of consequences is the problem because if the United States wants to get in the hot war, the problem is. Where. The countries that we're talking about other than Saudi Arabia all have nuclear weapons. India has, them. China has them. Russia has them. Saudi Arabia. Doesn't. But Saudi Arabia has plenty of money to be able to proxy nuclear weapons. So. The the thing that, uh, you never see on mainstream media news that has been pointed out by numerous people, myself included. Um, the alternative news sites is that if you look at all the conflicts in the United States has been in since world war two. First of all the percentage of what can be generally classified as a victory. Is very small because even when the United States manages to occupy something, it doesn't actually win. It just prolongs this. This semi stable. But ultimately. Short term, uh, you know, I don't even know what to call it. It's like, how long did it take for the Taliban to. Take over Afghanistan. Once the us was out of there three days.

Ben:

Yeah. well, but you know, here's the thing I would say that the us has not had a war since world war two where its

Gene:

not a declared

Ben:

Well, and that's the problem, right? So, you know, the, the Vietnamese, the conflict in Vietnam, first of all, the French screwed that up to

Gene:

Oh, totally. Yeah. And left us holding a pile of shit.

Ben:

Yes. And, you know, quite frankly, we should have just evacuated the country and moved on with our lives. Um, the Korean conflict with my grandfather was in was, you know, uh, it's interesting, cause MacArthur wanted to use news and it w. It comes down to, we decided that we were ever since world war II and being the only country to actually ever use nukes in a conflict, you know, we decided that we were going to limit ourselves. and it's, it's an interesting dichotomy because as a result to your point, we've had very little victories and, um, I would, I

Gene:

And all the all of the.

Ben:

actually, if you look at it,

Gene:

Yeah, I know that's the problem is like, you can say, well, we weren't technically defeated, but we sure as hell didn't win. But the other issue is all of these conflicts that we've been in since world war II have been with third world countries.

Ben:

approximately.

Gene:

And yeah. And so they've, they've generally. Had much lower consequences than being at war with another nuclear power.

Ben:

But, but, so that's kind of where, uh, we've gone to though is all proxy wars, right?

Gene:

Well, and we were doing that to a large extent because, uh, because we had this. This dichotomy in the world. We had a balance between the communist block and the freedom block. Right. So when we lost that when the Soviet union was finally defeated and the United States was left as the only super. Uh, we had an. Incredible opportunity to redraw the world. In the way that we wanted it to be. And I think what happened instead is a land grab by the political and, uh, Ultra. Ultra rich classes. To go towards globalism. And focus, not on uh, Ensuring that the ideals that created America were spread far and wide. But rather on how do I get mine and keep it? The idea that Russia has all Garrix in the United States doesn't is completely absurd. We had all Garrix before Russia ever did. And we still have them. And You mentioned Ted Turner earlier, how is Ted Turner and not an oligarch?

Ben:

well, Carol Quigley. Let's go. I mean, have you ever read tragedy and hope

Gene:

No.

Ben:

so Carol Quigley, uh, which by the way, someone who got Clinton to be a road scholar, so that should tell you a lot about him. He wrote tragedy and hope, which was an, is the basis of the idea of mad and these proxy wars, right. When we did it to the Russians too. And ironically enough in it, it's Ghana's Stan, right? Anyone who's seen Charlie Wilson's war that, you know, that's,

Gene:

That was a great book. That is a book I actually read, a And. really enjoy that

Ben:

Well, I mean, people don't realize, but we spent billions in Afghanistan for the Taliban to overthrow and kick out the Russians only to leave the, uh, average age of the nation at the end of it. Uh, I think the average age was like 14 or 15 when then we spent nothing on education in that nation that. We had a very bloody hand in, and I think one of the biggest mistakes that the U S has made was the formation of the intelligence agencies and this idea of proxy wars and Carol Quigley's book tragedy and hope was very influential, uh, on politicians and driving us down that path. Um, you know, I, I think we, we talked about it before. I think that, uh, part of the reason why I think drafts are immoral is because I think if you can't get people to willingly fight in a war, then you should probably, re-examine why you're fighting that war and the proxy wars that we've been engaged in both, you know, all, all, all nations, but the U S particularly. We're really amoral wars that had, you said, we're going to declare war on Korea and you know, we're going to fight the communists there. The, the U S population would not have gone for it. Congress would never be able to pass a declaration of war, same thing for Vietnam, same thing for, uh, Iraq, everything

Gene:

Yeah. I totally agree. Because the basis is not there. Like what, what is the justification? For invading another country. To provide support for. A country that's going through a revolution. Like what justifies that we get to pick which side. A civil war or revolution. is going to garner support of the United States. Well, there's only one honest answer, which is. The side that we have the best chance of making money

Ben:

Yeah, the relationships

Gene:

That's what all the color revolutions were that were sponsored by the United States, amongst the what? Six, seven countries in the middle east and Africa. And, and Ukraine. Yeah, well, Africa, Ukraine, it's getting to be closer together at this point. Uh, and Egypt was the, uh, the only one that actually. Managed to push things back after what was a year, 18 months, something like that. Uh, where they're like, yeah, we're not having any of this shit. And so the army took over and they restored. The country back to a non U S instilled government.

Ben:

Yeah, I think it's interesting that we have allowed our politicians to take us down those roads and,

Gene:

That's cause we're have fat and happy. I mean, that's the thing is when the civil, when the populace is. You know, uh, given free, uh, free And goes to the Coliseum to enjoy themselves. They tend to be. a lot more willing to let the politicians do what they want.

Ben:

but what is the difference between the populous that are willing to be fat and happy and ignore reality, uh, and quite frankly, people like you and I that see this and take a principled idea and say, you know, this, this is, this is wrong. Why are we doing this?

Gene:

Yeah. Well, There is an argument to be made that while we may see. That this is wrong. Unlike most of the people and we can Impact our personal actions to minimize things that we see as being immoral. But ultimately. The. That isn't a full commitment level in the, in the same way that guys like Kaczynski who also saw the morality of these actions and took it to the ultimate end, which is taking personal responsibility for the immorality of the country.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

To make changes and I'm by no means. Am I implying or calling for any kind of, uh, you know, Actions against politicians, but ultimately. Uh, and this was a question I was going to ask you is. At which point do you think. Things get so bad that the military joins. With the cause of rebuilding. The government of the country, because in most countries, that is the pivotal point at which the revolution succeeds. It's not, when there's a rabble with signs, that's making noise and making people pissed off that somebody is, uh, annoying them. It's the point at which. The leadership of the military supports the new governor. At which point there is no choice for the old government, but to leave.

Ben:

Yeah. So I think that, unfortunately we're at a bad place because I think large portions of the military under the Biden administration. And I'll go back to that Supreme court ruling and our conversation on, you know, defending the police. I think that the people who are staying in those roles, um, are not the people we would ostensibly want in those roles. Right. I think a lot of the good soldiers and the good officers who will question things, um, and say, yeah, no, I'm not shutting down this mom and pop store for your, uh, COVID regulations. Those people are moving on and doing other jobs. And you have the, I'll just say the quite frankly, jackbooted thugs that will follow orders and, uh, do something. They should know is wrong, but you know, they want to keep their job and are willing to impose a tyrannical order on other people. Um, so that, that worries me. Um, that said there are a lot of the, the, the advantage that the us has is that the, there are a lot of people who think like you and I, and we have a lot of guns in this country. And I think that that is the single strongest defense we have as far as preventing a color revolution or a communist revolution truly happening in this, uh, in this country overnight

Gene:

Well, but I think we've been experiencing a gradual, I will certainly say from my standpoint, I gradual communist revolution in this country for the last 20 years or so. Really ever since Reagan. Left and the Bush Centrust, Uh, read my lips. I'm lying to you. Uh, family came in. It.

Ben:

Bush crime family. Yeah.

Gene:

it's it really like Bush could have literally run on either side of the political party. And it just so happened that he ran as a Republican because back then it was kind of considered the Democrats were more of the, you know, the hippie types and the Republicans were more of the monies. But honestly, from an idea standpoint, there was so little difference between. Uh, the policies of Bush and the policies of Clinton that they could have easily swapped and it wouldn't have really mattered.

Ben:

Yeah. Well, you know, the interesting thing and where I was going to go with this is we are not going to see an overnight revolution here in this country. But when I think back to my grandfather and my great-grandfather, my grandma, my great grandfather actually quit, uh, Magnolia or. Uh, he was, uh, he worked for Magnolia oil, uh, when they said, uh, bill, you can't bring your gun into the office anymore. And he was a few years. Short of retirement had been working there since his service in world war one was up. Uh, he was an engineer, he was army Corps of engineers. And then anyway, and, uh, you know, when they said you can't wear your gun to work anymore, he quit because he dammit, he was going to wear his gun wherever the hell he wanted. And I think to today and what his reaction, you know, we're talking, we're talking just two generations removed, right? What he would think about this nation that exists today. And he would be shocked. He would not recognize it as the same nation. And point agree that, you know, Ferreting out people and blacklisting people and dragging them in front of the Senate for their ideology is bad. But at the same time, They had a point and, you know, The communist subversives. And if you think about the. Um, Fabian socialists and things like that. Uh, they were fighting a culture war with us. But back to the sixties, seventies, and eighties, and as a result, You know, we have in academia and now in SCOTUS or to be in SCOTUS, you know, some very, very, um, Communistic idealized, uh, individuals, and then that culture war and failing that culture war early on in the fifties and sixties. Is what's led us here today. And, you know,

Gene:

And having seen firsthand, both. Uh, Soviet. And American communists. And I don't mean the people that are going to the rallies and, you know, with. I mean the actual calculus. It's like you said. The one that's probably gonna end up in Skoda's. Uh, and the ones that are running black lives matter. I will say that Russians did a horrible job of adhering to communism. Like Russians had too many. Uh, obviously generalizing here because there were a variety of Russians, but in general, Russians. We're mediocre at doing communism. Uh, because they had too many. Other, um, value system. That, uh, they relied on. Uh, like, uh, a big example of that, for example, is. While communism calls for. All workers, all men to be treated. Um, equally. Uh, that in Russia. Was. Completely ignored. And it was a. Not just, was it. Trying to adhere to cameos in principle, but there was a very, very strong sort of a. Um, Almost a mafia, like kind of like friends and friends of friends. Are the only ones that are allowed to. Uh, make headway kind of approach.

Ben:

But we see that in every communist nation, right? The party members are

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And Chinese are crappy communists too. I'm just saying, I think.

Ben:

think there's ever such thing as a good communist.

Gene:

Well, that could be taken multiple ways, but, uh, but I think in the United States, there's a lot more. Um, a lot more. Of trying to get to that utopian kind of state. Of communism by calling it other names. But. You know, I'm not trying to exalt the virtues of communism's here. I'm saying in terms of adherence to what the cause. Proclaims or deviating from what the cause for claims. I think in the United States that that desire is. A lot more. Uh, it's closer to what the cause is saying. So what, however, communism. Uh, you can say work there didn't work in, in the Soviet union. Uh, what it really did is just simply establish a slightly different political system for Terry aneurysm. And whether it was totalitarianism around communism or around capitalism or around fascism or whatever. It, it would have still predominantly been a totalitarian society in Russia. Um, it just so happened that it was around communism. And I feel like in, in the United States, because communism has been gradually over the last 60 years, been pushing its way. Through academia and into the mainstream now and into a lot of sectors. Like that, that communism. Is not simply just a way for totalitarians to take over, but there are true believers out there. There are people that actually buy into this shit, not simply utilizing it for their own benefit. And that's kind of the, I guess the point I was getting at is in Russia. It was mostly just. You know, a means to an end.

Ben:

Well, I mean, you say that, but you had the gradual purges and, you know, purity tests of communistic thought. And that's why communism has been the most murderous ideology that has ever existed. Now. You know, that, that said, I think that, uh, to kind of summarize the way we resist this and fix it is. Um, Culturally right. How we, how we combat all of this as culturally. And it's, it's about understanding freedom. It's about understanding the sovereignty of the individual and it's about. You know, people who have those sorts of ideals, having kids and not leaving the education of your children up to the state that is communistic. But, um, you know, You know, teach, teach the children, right. And, uh, There will be eventually a counterrevolution.

Gene:

Well, maybe, um, I think one of the. One of the big mistakes that the. the. I don't even want to call them Republicans because Republicans are all right. And I was now, that's all there is. But the mistakes that the conservative side has made. Is it not coming up with ways to leverage or utilize. The reality of the migration that is happening from the south into the United States. Across the border illegally. And the, the, the liberal and communist factions have absolutely leveraged that. Like where, where is the. Humanitarians slash training camps through. Talk to these illegals. And. Explain the virtues of capitalism to them.

Ben:

Well, there's a lot of cultural issues there, but you know, one of the things that I would, I would challenge you on

Gene:

can understand capitalism. Like here's stuff. You have here's stuff I have.

Ben:

Right. But the cultural issue there is, you know, south America, central America is. A very corrupt society generally. And that's the portion that is problematic. And I'm not saying the U. It is not corrupt. We have plenty of corruption here. Um, But I think the problem is the framing of this because people like me, I'm not a conservative. I mean, if you, if you look at. My value system and what I believe in, I am a classical liberal. In, in every sort of stretch of the world. And I think the true conservatives. Are equally problematic to the true communists, right? Um,

Gene:

the terms have really gotten muddled a lot. I totally agree. And I've always been a libertarian. Um, certainly ever since high school, when I first read Atlas shrugged. But it's something that. I've had more differentiation from conservatives. Back then. Then I think I do now. Because things like. Um, Uh, not at all. Gay marriage, I guess is one, like, I always thought this is a stupid thing to waste any time on, because first of all, government shouldn't, shouldn't be in the business of marriage. That's that's something that's really more of a religious thing than anything else. Uh, and why the hell is the government giving tax breaks to people? Uh, that happened to be lucky enough to have kids, but not people that aren't lucky enough to have kids like it, it seemed very, very best stupid to me, but the conservatives were all. You know, pro. Uh, anti-gay marriage pro-family values, blah, blah, blah. So I've always seen myself as kind of an outsider on both sides. And obviously, I mean, experienced. I mean, it was in firsthand. I have no. Uh, interest in that side of the equation either.

Ben:

You know, it's interesting is just to go back to the idea and to reinforce the idea that We really have a unitary party system and the U S you know, there were Democrats, uh, including our current president who were. You know, not terribly mad about the defense of marriage bill in the early two thousands. Um, so, you know,

Gene:

Oh, Hillary is all for it.

Ben:

Oh, exactly. But. And Biden. You know, I can't, I can't remember where his vote ended up, but, um, you know, he certainly wouldn't. Uh, wouldn't take the same position today. So.

Gene:

Mine was never a rock. The boat politician. He always went along with the party.

Ben:

Yeah, he he's. Yeah. Uh, unfortunately, he's one of those. Uh, careerists in politics that become corrupt and problematic.

Gene:

we should never get to a point like this again, where somebody has never had a real job in their entire life. And there's basically. Made millions. If not hundreds of millions. Off of special access. That's what he's always been good at.

Ben:

So, you know, over an agenda, Adam and John have been talking about this being a reenactment of the seventies. Um, I think it's, uh, a, a funny concept, but, you know, uh, I sure hope it's not true because the whole idea of ending up with. Nancy Pelosi is the potential president is a terrifying prospect. I think that would be worse than Biden.

Gene:

Uh, yeah, maybe, maybe I think. There's definitely a pendulum and at work here. And I've talked about this before. My, uh, my friend, uh, Roy Williams has written a book called pendulum that talks about the cycles. The 40 year cycle. Between individualism. And. Uh, what's the opposite of that. I keep wanting to say communism, but it's not that it's, um, Collectivism collectivism versus individualism. And. And like 83 was the peak of individualism. So 40 years from that. Would be 2023 is the peak of collectivism. And he traces a cycle going back like a thousand years.

Ben:

And it's similar to the cycle. That's depicted in the four turnings as

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah,

Ben:

And that goes to Biden's comments about a change in the world order or the last change in the world order was in the world war two. And, you know, we're right here at the end of the fourth, turning ready for a crisis and the change in the world order.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it, there are a lot of patterns that people have been picking up on. I think a lot of religious texts. Allude to repetitive patterns as well. I one of my favorite TV shows a Battlestar Galactica. At the famous phrase of, uh, we've all been here before and we'll be here again. Um, so.

Ben:

History doesn't repeat itself, but it sure oftentimes rhymes, right?

Gene:

Yeah, but maybe it does repeat itself. We don't know how do we know. So I think that the common element here is the way that human brains work and that we will only experience. A few hundred years of evolution since, uh, Uh, since all the technologies come about. But our brains haven't really. Changed much. Since the. Founding fathers first fought a war. Uh, against the British. So there's.

Ben:

immediately screwed themselves by going with a Federalist system versus a yeah.

Gene:

Uh, well, and again, that's the thing is that nothing's ever going to be perfect. There's no, um, There's no group of people that will always agree with each other. Long-term even if they, if a group of people forms that agrees on a particular issue, once the issue is resolved, either negatively or positively division will come about, that's just. Normal psychology. Uh, oh, So. With all that in mind. Uh, this is why I said just, if you look at historically when changes happen, In governments. Uh, when revolutions. Become successful. That pivotal point more often than not. Is the point where the head of military. Joins with the rebellion. And from your analysis that we're moving further from that happening in this country. Which is a sad. I think it's probably a true analysis, but it's a sad statement because it probably means that the United States has to experience a lot more socialism and communism before things move in the other direction.

Ben:

Well, my level of analysis was that I think that we are radicalizing our military and, and, and police forces in many

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

But what I would say is that, um, you know, you have an army of armed citizenry that far outweighs any.

Gene:

mean a militia?

Ben:

Yes. And you have the ability to field for more people with guns. Uh, in the us then. Our entire military and law enforcement combined. So what I would say is. I think that the odds of a breakup in the U S and. You know, people saying this far, no farther. I think that that could get there, but I don't think it will be the military or the police to join with the rebel cause to do it. I think it will be. Citizens that maybe they're former military and former police that say, no, we're not, we're not going to play that game anymore.

Gene:

and the. Uh, here's where I see the problem with that is the, the reason that the, these revolutions become successful when the military joins. Has less to do. With the weapons of the military, which the people have in this country. And more to do with a formal structure that's already in place. A hierarchy that exists in the military that allows relatively few people. To make decisions. That have consequences. And control. Uh, a very large number of people, the problem with a whole bunch of us running that own weapons and are trained to use them and everything else. Is that any attempt made by people to. Form. A more organized militia is very quickly thwarted by the government because they see that as a very dangerous thing to allow to continue, because that is exactly what can challenge their power.

Ben:

Yeah, but, uh, what I would say there is your. I think what you would see is why would you try and organize a formal resistance there instead of just breaking up into smaller groups?

Gene:

Um, because from a practical aspect, while you're breaking into smaller groups, the government is putting everybody into gulags. I mean, this happened in Russia and it wasn't and look it. People have weapons in Russia. Uh, people had plenty of guns, uh, the, the communist government, in fact, That was one of the, sort of the, the. Communist freedoms is that. Uh, the serves who were not allowed. To have weapons were now no longer serves. They were free citizens. Uh, under the communist. Rule. And so they, all of a sudden could buy guns and guns were available. Uh, in Russia. Now that didn't last more than about 20 years. Because then the government started realizing that hold on. If we did a revolution, these guys could do a revolution. We don't want that. We want to be in power forever. Uh, so that they, they change that rhetoric, but. I think that. Like I said, the big factor here is organization. And what, what the opposition, let's just say to the globalist government of the United States. The opposition lacks. That type of organization.

Ben:

Well, it will

Gene:

of people that are.

Ben:

To see.

Gene:

Sorry. Uh, to interrupt you there. But like, I know a lot of people that have guns that go hunting that are very proficient with the weapons and even a lot of us like talk on telegram and have little groups and no agenda meetups and all these things where you start to meet other people. Shit hits the fan. Who's in charge. Who's going to look at the maps and figure out where to go and what to do.

Ben:

Well, and there are a lot of people who will have lost their guns. Boating accidents or just give up and yeah. Um, but I mean, there's such a numbers disparity there between governmental forces and you have to, you have to think in the U S that there are some good cops, there are some good soldiers that are going to say, yeah, I'm not enforcing that order. And I'm going to go join with this other group. Hypothetically. So, you know, when you have those numbers, even if you say, okay, Two thirds of gun owners in the us are just going to capitulate and go along. You still have a two to one advantage.

Gene:

Yeah, I

Ben:

Over government

Gene:

at the number of guns and I'm looking at the, the structure, the organizational structure. And the guns in individual hands help. But they don't win. What wins is an organized militia, not a bunch of individuals with guns.

Ben:

Yeah, but the problem with the organized militia and I've seen this personally in my life. Um, You know that everybody likes to play the game spot. The spook, well, agent provocateurs are a real thing. Right. And what I would remind everyone of is like what happened at Ruby Ridge? Right. So, and.

Gene:

Well, I would say Waco, like what happened in Waco? Really. Made me realize, or it was the first time where I made some extended Ruby Ridge too, but certainly in Waco to realize just how apathetic the American public was that they were willing to put up. With this absolute abuse of power by the government. On people that. Absolutely did not deserve it. I mean, whatever you can say about the, the laws that were broken by the branch Davidians. Uh, the response was absolutely. Non-proportional.

Ben:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, the response.

Gene:

no one gave a shit.

Ben:

Well, I mean, it started with Ruby Ridge and the reason why I say that is because, you know, there, there was a. Embedded ATF agent that got Randy Weaver to screw up and make a sawed-off shotgun and then tried to use him do as a mole to spy on. Certain movements in north central Idaho, which.

Gene:

Which he wasn't even a member of.

Ben:

No. And didn't like, they, I, I, I.

Gene:

the other part nobody really kinda knows is that he wasn't part of these groups. He was just a dude trying to live his life away from people that fucked him over.

Ben:

Yeah. And, and, you know, the, the weavers. Decided to not comply with what was entrapment and. Crap. And he ended up losing his wife, his son and friends. You know, Uh, Waco, the branch Davidians. What happened there? The. You know, they were. David Koresh could have been picked up in town at any point in time. There was not a need for that. And when you look at the. Snipers that were involved in both incidents. You're starting to see a pattern there. Um, The abuses of the government in the nineties is definitely not lost on me. It's interesting that we haven't really seen that sort of abuse since. Um, You know, It's. It's an

Gene:

Well, we've managed to keep more Clinton's out of office thinking.

Ben:

So far.

Gene:

Yeah. So far, if she might still run. Exactly. Yeah, but that's the thing it's like to me watching that my blood was boiling and seeing that stuff happening on TV. I was like, I. Can't believe we're letting this happen. And I would happily join anybody that opposes.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

And it was crickets chirping.

Ben:

Well, same thing when Snowden revelations happened, right. I thought, I thought surely.

Gene:

a revolution?

Ben:

Well, I was surprised because you know, in, in it, and then cybersecurity with a joke was always, I heard the government can and you know, they surely they are. And then here we have evidence of them spying on us in such a grotesque way. Um, how that you. And I, there are several people I know. And. Somewhat respect, who thought of Snowden as a trader for saying those things and how dare he go to Russia?

Gene:

think that he's a trader after everything that's happened. I'm like, A trader to whom a trader to his employee may be, or employer. Maybe. But a trader to the American people to the constitution. Absolutely not.

Ben:

To the principles of Liberty and you know, everything else. Well, and it's the same thing with, uh, you know, How Julian Assange just being treated and everything

Gene:

Oh, yeah. They're basically have killed us orange without a killing. How is what's been done to a Sange? Different from what Russia is constantly blamed for doing, uh, to opposition. Uh, people, you know, w oh, such and such with poison it. Guess what? None of the people that were allegedly poisoned by Russia have died.

Ben:

Well, regardless, you know, Having a political prisoner. In that way because, oh my God embarrassed. The U S military because the us military was doing

Gene:

Yeah. Literally a publisher of news.

Ben:

Yes. Leaking well, and the whole, you know, Bradley Manning thing. Uh, You know, Leaking of gun camera footage, and, you know, People need to remind themselves of where that actually

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

happened there.

Gene:

Yeah. And, and Manning, I think just didn't belong in the military. That was pretty obvious that, that you should have been. Back when he was still a, he.

Ben:

Right now it's Chelsea.

Gene:

yeah, not, not Chelsea should have been, uh, removed from active service, but still it's like, does the act of. Uh, taking classified information and spreading it. Is that always a bad thing? If the information. Is actually that the government is breaking laws.

Ben:

Uh, no, I would say that it's the moral duty of any. Uh, anyone who is in con in possession of information where a government. Uh, deeds. Are. That abhorrence. Uh, you know, that that definitely should be published. And allow the people to respond right.

Gene:

So it's like, we keep secrets for a reason and then you see it. And certainly don't want our spine agencies to be full of people that are publishing details about what what's going on. But only to the degree that it doesn't break laws.

Ben:

I question if we want to have spy agencies at all.

Gene:

Yeah, you're, you're a little more.

Ben:

of that power is not, uh, too problematic and. In of itself, right.

Gene:

I'm more willing to, uh, see the benefits thereof. So you're definitely a little more extreme on that side of it. But.

Ben:

J Edgar Hoover, man. J Edgar Hoover.

Gene:

Yeah. Well, and it's. Uh, Aye. I really liked the story that Adam told of going to the fam. This is years ago. Going to the family home in New York. And, uh, you know, talking to his relatives and nieces and cousins and everybody else. And. And then having a conversation with a teenage. Uh, nice of his. Who at one point said. Oh, yeah, no, I, I can't, I can't really tell you what I did in the summer, because you don't have the clearance for it. And, you know, clearly traveling with her parents somewhere. But it, the ID. The idea that Adam's like the one guy in their whole family. That managed to not have clearance, I think is fricking hilarious.

Ben:

Well, it's definitely something that. I just think a secretive organization. Uh, begets abuse of power and that's where I am. Hesitant to say yes, that the CIA. The CIA and the NSA and. You know, uh, arguably the DIA is probably the one I would say has, is the most legitimate, but definitely the CIA and NSA. You know, they were never meant to spy on us citizens yet. We go through five eyes and everything else and, you know, immediately circumvent those laws. Um, and this goes back to whether or not you have something to hide. Um, well, if you ever want a revolution to take place, you. Communications and being secure in your property and your effects is a

Gene:

Yeah, but they don't want the revolution to take place. You see?

Ben:

I understand, but this is, this was one of the driving forces in 1776. You know, was. You know, Uh, warrantless injury. Right.

Gene:

Well, a warrant is entry and one can argue that surveillance is akin to quartering troops as well.

Ben:

Well, no, I mean, You go back to the word gossip. Right. Do you know, do you know the origins of where gossip.

Gene:

Nope.

Ben:

So the anecdote is that. George ordered. His spies to go sit in the taverns. And go sip. On a beer and listen to what was being said to spy. And, um, you know, that, that, that definitely the colonists did not react well to that. And. I just, I guess I'm, I'm in awe in shock that the American people just willingly accept spying. And we go back to the last time we talked, you know, um, My step-kids sharing their location information with each other. That's anathema to me as well, because I can't imagine. Sharing with my sister, my location

Gene:

Hm. Interesting. Um, Yeah. Yeah. It's um, I think that there, there is definitely. A trend towards less privacy. That's been instilled through educational institutions. Um, Certainly. It makes things easier when no one really. Cares about privacy. But I also think that there is a. Uh, there is a. Fine line between legitimate paranoia and illegitimate parents. Because there's also a lot of products that would be, uh, manufacturers that would be very happy to sell you all kinds of shit. Driven by that paranoia of wanting more privacy. That. Ultimately just makes money for them. And doesn't necessarily provide you with a whole lot of privacy.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

I. I understand both sides of that argument. And I know. And Adams made fun of me, uh, quite a few times for. Things like having security cameras in the house, recording everything that goes on. So I'm smiling on myself. Um, For a, like, You know, you can log in and check what the level of carbon dioxide is inside of my house. Well, I mean, If I give you the logins, obviously, but at one point. Adam was doing that on. A somewhat regular basis in the early days of no agenda where. Um, I gave him that access. He was like, oh, let's see. So it looks like the noise level inside of genes houses. Uh, 64 decibels and the carbon dioxide is at 480 parts per million. And, you know, just kind of. Little little fun details like that, that. Uh, I'm curious about, but I really also. Don't give a shit of other people. At least other people of my choosing. Uh, no, that stuff. And the same thing with the cameras. It's not like I have a publicly accessible camera, broadcasting live feed from the house. It's all going to the NAS. But I also knowing that. About. Capabilities to say that. If I'm recording video on, on my NAS. There is certainly a potential that somebody else can get through it as well.

Ben:

Yeah. And. Yeah. I would say that I had a camera system at a house. This was outdoor, not inside, but, um, that was definitely sitting on its own network. And, uh, I had to reach in to connect to it. Not, uh, it broadcasting out, but you know, I mean, I recognize that people put, you know, Siri, uh, or Alexa or Google, you. The assistant. As part of their life and.

Gene:

If you have a phone. Your phone is always listening.

Ben:

Absolutely. We, you know, we, we, 100% paid for our own telescreen and, um, There's a benefit in that as well, because. Because the majority of people are so noisy with what is collected. Used against. It generates enough noise that.

Gene:

Through obscurity.

Ben:

Yes to an extent, but we all know what that's worth. Right.

Gene:

It just means NSAs. I ask for a bigger budget.

Ben:

Well, and, you know, Sifting through that amount of data is difficult. Right?

Gene:

why we have AI systems.

Ben:

Dude. Eh, don't get me started on AI and machine learning. We've already gone two

Gene:

Yeah. We can, we can. Save that for the next. The next episode, we'll talk about AI next time. Uh, well, yeah, you're right. So this has been a little longer than episode that we typically are shooting for 90 minutes or so. Uh, for these, but yeah, the topics just were interesting enough to keep talking.

Ben:

Jean is good to talk to you. We'll talk to you next weekend.

Gene:

Yeah, that sounds good. Uh, we'll see a week from now and hopefully everybody's enjoying listening to this. New version of Serjean speaks, um, with, uh, through a dude named Ben named Ben. And if you are enjoying it. Uh, let us know why don't we another, uh, the contact info is in the description of the. Uh, podcasts episodes, if you want to make a donation, go for it. But honestly, I'm not even going to take the time to talk about deletions on this one.

Ben:

Well, we'll, we'll work it out. If we get there.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. It's going to take more energy and effort to figure out what the donations coming in than the actual amounts that they're doing. Professional podcasters like Adam Curry or, or even, uh, Uh, they're an O'Neil that do like five, six shows a week. That's a whole different thing. Like they're actually doing it as a job. I'm just talking to you as though this is a phone call and the record button just happened to be pressed.

Ben:

Yeah, and you and I both have day jobs. So the idea of this becoming anything more than a Lark and us talking is probably low on

Gene:

we're just generating content for the NSA. That's all we're doing.

Ben:

Indeed. Indeed, probably the only ones listening.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. God dammit. I wish they had to say would send some money. Pay me for my content bitches. All right. And with that, uh, we'll sign off until next week.

Ben:

Talk to you later, gene.