Sir Gene Speaks

0063 Sir Gene Speaks - with Dude Named Ben

March 12, 2022 Gene Naftulyev Season 2022 Episode 63
Sir Gene Speaks
0063 Sir Gene Speaks - with Dude Named Ben
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Gene:

This is sir. gene with dude named Ben. Who is going to be my guest and possibly cohost in the coming months here. Starting up a new topic for the show. And typically when I've done the interviews, it has been for really getting to know the person, but. Since I've already interviewed Ben in the past and he was also interviewed and unrelenting. We kind of know quite a bit about Ben. So Ben, we're not going to talk about you. We're going to talk about some current affairs topics. How's that sound?

Ben:

Sounds great to me. And how do y'all

Gene:

That's right now, you are a native Texan. are you

Ben:

ma'am I was born on the Gulf coast.

Gene:

Yeah. And that's something that is actually pretty rare here in Austin. Maybe not quite as rare than the rest of Texas. But having somebody that was actually born in Texas, living in Texas. Certainly seems like a unicorn here.

Ben:

Yeah, my, my family, um, actually it goes back a long way. Um, my family first moved to Texas right after the civil war before that, um, my family actually started in what was at the time, the Spanish Feliciana is a modern day, Louisiana. So yeah,

Gene:

okay. Interesting.

Ben:

long history here in the United States.

Gene:

So have you done a lot of family, a history? Investigating stuff.

Ben:

I personally haven't, but my grandmother did a ton. Um, and you know, family is and has been established enough that tracing that back. Wasn't too big of a problem for

Gene:

Oh, that's good. Yeah, I think the furthest I can go back right now is Adam. But you know, maybe one day we'll figure out something further back than that for my family. We're all related

Ben:

grandfather always used to joke. She's going to go back and next step back is going to be Christ. Was his

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. How'd you like to trace back, your family tree, and then the Abel.

Ben:

Exactly right. Whoops. Let's just sweep this under the road real quick, by the way, we didn't go with that for back, everyone. Exactly. That's that's me, man. I've always been the black sheep of my

Gene:

Yeah. but I think you enjoy that.

Ben:

to an extent. Yeah. I mean, when, when I look at my family and how they are, I, I enjoy being different that's for sure.

Gene:

Hey different is good. I think that's somebody a brand logo or but he call it.

Ben:

Well, when you look at how, when you look at what normal is today, I thank God. I'm weird.

Gene:

No, that's a good point. Alright, Well, there's a lot of stuff happening right now and some of it we've been talking too much about in some, but not enough. I feel. But, um, let's just jump right in. Um, I just saw somebody posting and they have to verify this on my own, but apparently Amazon is now selling. Ukrainian nationalist shirts that Nazis used.

Ben:

Yeah. This is all that too,

Gene:

I'm like, oh my God, come on.

Ben:

you know, in our cancelled culture today, it is so weird. What is allowed and what isn't. And this is something I fought in my own family. This goes back to me being the black sheep. I remember years ago, my aunt posting something on Facebook about homophobia and stop homophobia. And I challenged that, right? Because to me, language matters. And I said, I'm not afraid. I just have, I have issues. And this ended up in a whole big family fight. And you know, it was like, I have lobbied Congress in a literally lobbied Congress about marriage, right. That the government has no business in marriage, things like

Gene:

Totally agree.

Ben:

But to be canceled because of my particular issue with language was a problematic. But today you fast forward and it's the same people doing the same sort of things. If it's their cause or what they think is okay, they will do, they will go through mental gymnastics to justify it. And they're just not intellectually honest about it. Right? The same people who were screaming about COVID six months ago, six months ago are now screaming about Ukraine.

Gene:

Well, yeah, and the same people that were accusing everybody around them. If we didn't agree with them of being Nazis. Are literally supporting Nazis that call themselves Nazis.

Ben:

And the, the hilarity is not missed out on me at least. I, you

Gene:

Yeah, I wish it didn't cost us as much money and didn't hurt as many lives.

Ben:

well, I mean, th this is the danger of not having a society that is intellectually honest.

Gene:

Yeah, or just intellectually intelligent.

Ben:

Well, I mean, one goes with the other, right. Um, eh, I mean, you have a point there that there's not enough education and it's just reactionary, screaming emotions, right.

Gene:

Well, and I, you could say it's actually too much education that is indoctrination and not enough education of just unbiased facts.

Ben:

I mean, that's our education system, you know, um, we look at what's taught in schools, right? So you have a textbook that was written by someone who has an agenda and an opinion. And then it's interpreted by a teacher that has an agenda and an opinion, and never is the student asked to go back to original source material, read it and come up with their own opinion.

Gene:

Absolutely. Yeah. No. I remember as a youngster way back when, because you know, I'm 120, but way back when. Going through. And. Reading books that were printed thirty, forty, fifty years before I was born. And it was always really neat because the perspectives were different. And it's something that doesn't happen. And almost can't happen. I suppose you could go to the Wayback machine, archive.org. And do some research. If you're a kid in school, on a topic. Based on what the website said back in. the 1990s or early two thousands, but that's as far back as you can go but it's vastly different from actually. Looking at a book that was published. Half a century ago.

Ben:

well, And go ahead

Gene:

Nah, I was just going to wrap it up by saying, and, and right now I think that there's zero encouragement for doing that. And so whatever is used as fact. When children are taught. Is literally what was on the evening news the night

Ben:

and you know, the, I think that's people don't keep enough journals anymore. You know, one of the things that I started when my, my son was born, as I started a journal for him and wanting him to see history through my eyes for this very point. Right. Regardless of what some historian writes down or anything else here, son, when you get older is my perspective in the time and what I was thinking. Um, and we don't go back and look at that enough, right? We, we don't go back and read what people's private thoughts were at the time, even though there's a lot of it out there. Right. Um, for instance you can constitution, we had argued about the constitution all the time in our society today. Well, why don't you go read the ratifying debates

Gene:

Right. all the arguments they were having. Yeah.

Ben:

Exactly. And, you know, the Virginia ratification debates were hugely heated, right? And there's a lot of information there that you can unpack. Patrick Henry was against the adoption of the constitution. Most people don't know that, right? Maybe you should look at why.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, no, it was a, it was a hugely compromising document. There was not this ideal thing that everybody agreed on when it was written, the way that it's portrayed.

Ben:

And I mean, quite frankly, it was somewhat treasonous, right? The fact that they threw away the articles of Confederation and wrote something entirely new without that being their stated purpose and they'll be getting, um, is pretty problematic in a lot of ways, actually.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that that happens when there's an opportunity to make changes. With little opposition. or even with some opposition, but opposition that, you know, you can get around. It, it certainly also happened. And I've talked about this a couple of times in the Russian revolution it wasn't at all the communists that revolted. against the SAR and then ended up. Overthrowing the desire and starting a civil government. The communists, utilize that to infiltrates take over and announce effectively that it was in fact the communist revolution, but the communist revolution happened after the real revolution happened. So, it, you know, you have a brand new government that's very weak that isn't really developed into very much yet. And is open to a lot of ideas from a lot of different people, it it's primed for a intellectual takeover.

Ben:

Yeah. And you know that that's part of what worries me about a lot of these conservatives to today are calling for a constitutional convention. Um, You know, the amendment process, the way it's been done every other time, going through ratification amongst the states and so on is pretty safe because it requires a lot of time. And a lot of effort if we were to actually call a constitutional convention, which has never been used in the other way of amending the constitution, my God I'm terrified as well of what would come out the other end. Right?

Gene:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, there'll be probably 3000 amendments. I mean, there, there, there would be so many sections in the constitution that the Supreme court would become irrelevant.

Ben:

Well, it would, it would, it w what happened last time would happen again, we would come out with an entirely new governing document and we might not get as lucky as we did last.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's true. That's true. and that's another observation that I've made that I think is easier for me to make because I've lived in both countries, today the United States is a lot more socialist than Russia is today. And that was completely the other way around. During the Soviet times. But right now, it's, it's amazing how much socialism has really grasped the United States.

Ben:

it is, and, you know, gene, um, that is not lost on me. Um, growing up believing in this country, thinking lots of this country, right. Um, I am reminded every day, how much freedom and how much personal responsibility has been eroded. And I think back to my grandfather and my great-grandfather, and I think would they want to live in this society today and the answer. The hands-down no. And I completely recognize and think that Russia and the United States have crossed paths as far as the directions they're going and have completely flip-flopped. And that's not to say, I think Putin is a good guy or anything like that,

Gene:

Hey, he's got his issues for sure.

Ben:

it 100%. And I don't think the Russian government is where I would want it to be. But if you look at the directions that we're going, that, that just is terrifying to me. Um, Yeah.

Gene:

Yeah. And one thing that I think. Americans have a hard time understanding. because we've tended to invade countries that have governments that don't change. Since we are used to having a new president every eight years or so. But. If you look at Russia and a really Putin post, the fall of communism. Um, He has done. an insanely good job. A tremendous job. Of taking what was really a very dysfunctional backwards country with an economy that was fully state controlled. And. Utilizing capitalism. And to some people, really the unfettered capitalism, where there were so few laws that people could leverage things, their advantage, and that's how you ended up with the. The oligarchs, but. That's that's really a term that can be. I think, well, it has become misapplied because people just think of any rich person in Russia or of Russian descent is an old guard. That's not what

Ben:

have oligarchy Well, but we have oligarchy in the

Gene:

Absolutely. Absolutely. We just don't call it that, but we've had all the Garca here for many years.

Ben:

I mean, you look at our, we were talking about education earlier. You look at our education system. If you don't see that that was founded by an oligarchy to their purpose, I can't help you. Um, Yeah. it's, it's it. I think that he has done a lot and will Russia, regardless of who the leadership is, Russia has done a lot to overcome the past of the USSR and, um, you know, they, they are walking down a line now, the narrative in the west, man, I, you know, when I look at the narrative of what happened in world war II, and I look at the narrative that's being spun. Now, the media is setting Putin up to be the next.

Gene:

Oh, they're calling him that literally.

Ben:

Well, I mean, you, you have a ethnic population in a disputed region that is being genocided, and we're going to ignore that. And then you have someone going into by their own words, protect that population. And I'm by no means saying that Putin is doing this and that's his motive. I am not interpreting his motive. I'm just saying what he has said publicly.

Gene:

Right.

Ben:

This is Hitler in Poland. It really is RIT over again in many ways.

Gene:

Yeah. If you, if you, if your history knowledge stops at world war II, I would say yes. The, the idea of. A larger country coming to the defense of a smaller one with a minority population. That is similar to the country that is larger. Goes back to the Roman days.

Ben:

Oh, absolutely.

Gene:

you, if, but most people's knowledge, doesn't just stop at World war two. They don't have any knowledge and all they're looking for memes and the closest memes are world war II.

Ben:

Yeah. but my fear is that, you know, well, I don't know about you, but I am a firm believer that it had Churchill not been in power. A world war II probably wouldn't have happened. So, you know, I, I don't know. I just I'm very fearful of the rhetoric that is being used because I think it's a bombastic and escalate Tory at the very least. And you know, my opinion on Ukraine is why do I care? Um,

Gene:

And that's, I think. A perfectly valid opinion that you would be shamed for.

Ben:

absolutely. Um, you know, if I said that at work, people would look at me and like, because it's horrible, it's the humanity. We have done lots of things. There is tragedy all across the war, a world. I don't want war anywhere, but words happen. You know, people, this is the same people who say there's no, there's never a violence is never the answer. well, that's just not true. You push someone far enough. You push someone into a corner, you hurt someone deep enough and violence may be the only recourse and that's in every human relationship.

Gene:

War is the the execution of political. Means when every other method failed.

Ben:

Absolutely.

Gene:

So it, it is a, although again, I I have a hard time calling what's happening in green a war. I think an occupation is certainly a good way to describe it. But a war where the infrastructure has not been touched. Other than sabotage by the people that actually live there on occasion. The electricity is still running the water still running. The sewers are still flushing. The stores are still open. And when there are decreases in availability of product, The occupiers, bring in trucks to onload emergency supplies like wheat, rice, and you know, condiments and things just so people can survive. How is that a war? That's not the way the U S conducted.

Ben:

that they bombed?

Gene:

Yeah, the hospital. that they bombed? So there were actually, I don't know if I saw a hospital, there were a couple of schools that were bombed. And we also have videos from those literal schools. Showing the Nazis. station there. And effectively using that building as a, a staging ground. Now. The bombings happen after the video surface. So. I kind of get it. I mean, if you have a building that says the word school on it and inside is held up a bunch of terrorists thugs. Are you going to not have a SWAT team to send them them Delaine?

Ben:

Well,

Gene:

What's a school we're not allowed to have guns in the school zones.

Ben:

w we don't even have to be, we don't even have to go hyperbolic here, but you know, it doesn't matter if you want to call them terrorists, freedom fighters or whatever. You have an opposing force that is using a building as barracks, and as a staging area, really what the label on the building is, is irrelevant.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

And it, it, anyone who thinks that that is not a legitimate military target, I mean, the media is going on and on about war crimes, war crimes, war crimes.

Gene:

Which is a stupid thing to begin with. I've I've always said that I don't care. Even going back to the Nazi days. It w. War crime to me seems like an oxymoron. If you're participating in war, whether you're the winner or the loser, the conduct that happens by direct order and war Is not something that should be punishable after the Maybe if you want to keep prisoners indefinitely in prison camps. Fine, whatever the winner gets to declare the terms of the surrender. But having this. The same thing. Well, you were engaged in more and that could have been okay, but because you did this one thing, that's actually a war crime. The Geneva convention is bullshit. I don't understand that either, because in fact, I think it's counterproductive. Because the lesson learned from world war one. shouldn't have been, oh my God. Let's not use chlorine gas. Cause it's really bad for people. The lesson should have been. Don't have any more wars because each war will have more devastating weaponry involved. So by, by limiting, by limiting, the types of weapons are for Christ sakes, the types of ammunition you can use. In the battlefield. Only to ball ammo, you can't use

Ben:

all the

Gene:

Yeah. How point Hydroshot city, any other kind of emo that's actually more effective at what we would use for hunting. you know, out to use. What that does is it makes war more tolerable? And that's not what war should be. War should be. Intolerable.

Ben:

absolutely. And you know, it's funny because that actually goes back. That, that trend of, oh my God, what did we do? And trying to limit ourselves afterwards actually goes back to the American civil war, right? When you had canister And double shot in canons and the effects it had on infantry, you know, looking back, um, it was horrific and it was so ingrained in the American psyche that I think that's when those attitudes towards, well, we can have war, but let's do it in a more civilized way. War is not civilized. There's nothing civilized

Gene:

yeah. I mean, what's the, planning, the tactics, you could certainly have civilized, but in terms of the brutality of happens, it shouldn't be, and

Ben:

if you're willing to go to war with something. You need to psychologically understand what that means. It needs to be a, I have exhausted all options. There is no other way to get what I think is my will in true needs accomplished, and I'm going to be, willing to do anything and. gamble, everything to do.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. And, and the Warhawks that we have right now, are trying to get America directly involved. In Ukraine. Their concept of war is. A guy sitting in Las Vegas, piloting and drone that is dropping bombs and civilians. That's essentially what they're used to as American

Ben:

Yeah. Have you ever read the book Starship troopers?

Gene:

Of course, I actually rewatched the movie just two days ago.

Ben:

Well, the book is better than

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's different, you know what? It's, the movie. has a bad rap, I think And having just rewatched it. I think it's better than I remembered it to be.

Ben:

I agree. And there's a line in the movie that isn't in the book that we're one of the guys is in basic training and he asks, why do I need to learn knife fighting in a nuclear war when it's just pushing a button and the drill Sergeant throws the knife and pins his hand to the wall. And he just says, if you disable your enemy's hand, he cannot push the button,

Gene:

that's a, it gets a good look.

Ben:

you know? And it, it, it, that is the difference in the mindsets, right? You have one group that thinks it's a push button war, and the people who have actually been involved in military, which I am not by any stretch of the imagination, but grew up around a lot of people who were, you know, war is not clean. It never has been never.

Gene:

Yeah. And, and it's. It's hard to try and make a push to control a piece of land without anybody getting hurt. I mean, I guess you could do it if you can think of it being a legal battle in court or something, but there you're really leaving it up to a third party. To adjudicate on who gets the land. And if there's no third party that you can trust, you're going to have to do it.

Ben:

Well, and, you know, I find it funny that the globalists and the American left are talking about sending the Ukrainians civilians guns while wanting to limit our own, um,

Gene:

Oh, absolutely. They're They're talking about how great it was. The Zelensky distributed a hundred thousand. Fully automatic. rifles. To a population of civilians. This is they're praising that with their little Ukrainian flag logos. And are completely against anybody having a semi-automatic gun with more than 10 rounds in it.

Ben:

Yeah. And, and there's no chance that organized crime got ahold of any of that, right. Because the Ukraine is perfect and has no organized crime.

Gene:

Yeah, exactly. It's a it's country literally known for organized crime And for doing backroom deals. It's the place that all the U S politicians have gone to watch them.

Ben:

Yeah,

Gene:

Yeah, it's it's really. It makes me more depressed about the, the level of intelligence of Americans. I mean, I was always depressed about that, but even more so now.

Ben:

Well, you know, it's interesting because America is, if you, if you go back to generational theories and you look at things, you know, America is founded by people who self-selected and left and, you know, we're, we're explorers and pioneers, right? And so they're, they're those families that have been here generationally for a long period of time, have a certain, um, have a certain ingrained attitude in them. Um, you know, I know that when I look at my family heritage and everything else, I very much am in line with my ancestors in lots of ways. Um, and I think there's a lot to that, right? The people who stayed in England and came over later when it was easier and so on. Have different qualities and the people who came first. And I think that America's population has shifted so drastically in the last 50 years that I don't know. I don't know if it's something that we can recover from really.

Gene:

Yeah. and I There are a few books on the topic that kind of portrayed as a pendulum or an oscillating type movement. That could very well be the case. But it, it, it does.

Ben:

is.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Um, but it does seem that. There is a. And even now a continuation of a push more towards socialism and socialist ideologies as not, not even necessarily as written by marks, but more as. Interpreted by Soviet union back in the day.

Ben:

Oh, Yeah. well Marxism and what we call communism and socialism today is very much far off from the original manifesto. Right. And you know, the ideal of from each according to his ability to each, according to his needs is a lofty, noble goal. The problem is humans suck in lots of ways and you're never going to have that perfect utopia.

Gene:

Yeah. Well, I mean, that, that idea is literally eaten. It's it's getting what you need without worrying about what you are doing for the benefit of anybody

Ben:

Absolutely. And you know, it it's the best system we have and here here's one thing I wish people would realize you cannot allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. And while those communists ideas are, you know, a lofty, noble idea in lots of ways. The fact of the matter is the best way we have to achieve that sort of equality is not only capitalism, but it's pure capitalism and living in a society that prefaces.

Gene:

Yeah, absolutely. And what we have is drifting further and further away. And anybody that points out, what, what are you talking about? Looking at all these huge corporations that are able to do social good. Because they're big and they're controlled by people who cares, like. Yeah, that's not capital. That's cronyism and that's oligarchies. Literally it's having people that are unelected having enough money and power through the businesses that they control, not even own. And Tim cook doesn't own apple. A bunch of funds, own apple. A bunch of people have their retirement money in apple, but Tim cook gets to control apple. He gets to decide who he wants to kick off the, any of their platforms. He gets to see where every person that's walking around with an iPhone. Where they are and where they've been. Like that's, that's somebody that was completely unelected. Somebody that was a you know, I guess at some point, I'm sure he did a good job. To the degree that he got promoted to COO by Steve jobs. But. That guy has more power arguably than any state governor. Or potentially even some presidents. Like the current one.

Ben:

well, you know what? The big problem here is. Right. So, um, when I think of the decisions that pretty much doomed America amending the constitution, is there, there are a couple of key decisions that happened at the turn of the last century that I think really doomed America.

Gene:

Now you're talking about giving women the right to vote like in here.

Ben:

Well, I don't believe in universal franchisement. I think that there should be some standards. I don't care about sex as being one of

Gene:

Service guarantees. So there's some ship.

Ben:

Yeah. I think there should be something to that. Um, I like the landowners were the only ones who could vote previously. Um, now my wife and I own some property, we both should be able to vote. I don't think that that should preface me over her, but anyway, regardless,

Gene:

she couldn't live on the property

Ben:

well, you know, there, there's lots of things there that we will save for another

Gene:

Yes, The show is getting spicy here.

Ben:

But to the point I was making, um, changing the way the Senate was elected. So originally the Senate was supposed to be the representative of the states, right? We are the United States of America, capital S where we are supposed to be free and sovereign nations coming together in a Federation. And the Senate was to represent the state governments. Um, the other decision that was made in the early 20th century that really screw things up was we allowed Congress to cap their number. Um, the fact of the matter is the UK EU UK member of parliament represents fewer people by population than the United States Congressman does. And there are more members of parliament in the UK. It's really kind of terrifying how many people, one Congressman represents, right? And it's no man, no person, no woman can represent that many interests. The problem we have is of scale the United States in historically Jefferson and so on. Never thought that the United States should expand past the Mississippi, that we should spin off another country that hopefully we'd have friendly relations with, but you know, no

Gene:

we still can.

Ben:

the continent

Gene:

Texas may rise again.

Ben:

from your mouth to God's ears. I am definitely a process session, this person, um, and that is not necessarily that much of a popular opinion, but I, I tell you this, I think had Hillary won in 2016,

Gene:

we might be

Ben:

you might've seen something very different.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's true. And I. I don't think, I mean, this is, to me, one of the great mistakes of A Republican president was. Not dealing better with the succession of the south. And instead. Waging an illegal war on the south.

Ben:

Do we really want to go into the civil war? I've used lot of it and on the first podcast.

Gene:

man. Might as well, let people know. I've been calling it the war of Northern. aggression for many, many years.

Ben:

Yeah, and then it definitely was. I, I, I am a southerner. I I grew up with a very Southern tradition, but more than that, you know, my parents did put original source material in front of me and told me to make up my mind. And I remember when I was in grade school, my parents put South Carolina expositions in protests in front of me by John C. Kelly. Who was vice-president of the United States at one point in time. And he outlines the South's reasons for secession. Um, you know, most people don't realize it, but Mississippi before the civil war was the richest state in the union today, it's one of the poorest. Um, there are lots of things that have occurred and, you know, it cannot simply be said that it was slavery. That was the cause. You know, you have the abominable tariffs, you had lots of things and I'll say this. Um, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong, but had the war happened just a decade earlier, the south would have won. Um, and the reason why I say that is because great Britain would have come in on the side of the south almost instantly, but in that intervening decade, um, great Britain had cotton plantations in India and no longer needed the south as economically as much. And that was really part of the downfall there. Um, and to be clear, Do not believe in slavery, at least by race. I think if you are a free person and you own your body, you should be able to sell your body

Gene:

Amen to that. I, again, been saying that forever is there is no freedom without the right to sell your.

Ben:

Exactly. And now generational stuff and enslaving someone based off of race is just immoral.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

if

Gene:

take the kids away immediately because they're free.

Ben:

exactly. Yeah. Anyway, I'm glad we see eye

Gene:

That would be a topic for show to the pros and cons and mostly pros of slavery.

Ben:

well, you know, it's funny because people are so terrified of what freedom actually means and you know, and this is what it comes down to is most people do not want to be free. They want to be safe

Gene:

Yes. Absolutely. it's

Ben:

that.

Gene:

the state of children. It's the state, that little puppies are when they're born until they get past those puppy teenage years where they want to run off and do their own things. The majority of people never get beyond that

Ben:

Well, and people are just terrified to take responsibility for the decisions that they have

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

Um, and we see it writ large in our society. We see it in the divorce numbers. We see it in you know, in lots of ways.

Gene:

and it's moving in. Further in that direction. And one of my observations relating to that exact topic. Is the increase in number of people that are doing gig work. Meaning part-time contract for somebody else versus people who are starting up small businesses, which used to be a lot more popular 30, 50, 80 years ago.

Ben:

Um, I'll give you another example, the infantilization of a young adults, right? When you have, um, teenagers still living at home, um, into their twenties. Yeah. You know, I left the house at 16. I went, I started college at 16 and I have never looked back, but, um, you know, peop people today Stay, and I'm going to stay at home while I go to college and save money and do this and they're there. Okay. That could be okay. But go ahead and do something with your life. Go out and have friends. Um, parents don't micromanage your kids, you know, um, I have teenagers here and I want them to go out. I want them to go get in trouble. And when they're not, I'm like, what's wrong with you? W what are you doing? Why aren't you challenging authority? You know, um, because any man who isn't challenging authority In their teenage years or their twenties, that that's scary to me, right? If you don't have that ingrained in you, you know, by your thirties, learn some restraint, learn, you know, there, there, there is a reason for some authority, but, and in your teens and twenties. it should be rage against the machine and L and all firing on all cylinders to me.

Gene:

Absolutely. You have to push the boundaries of society in order to establish your own boundaries

Ben:

Well, and to learn where those boundaries really are and you know, something Peterson says a lot and I, you know, if most people think you're wrong, you probably are. Well, that, that can be true. That is 100% true for the majority of society. But it's important that you try and rail against that and question it because what if you're one of the 1% that are right, right. What, what happens when society is wrong and you see it as wrong and you don't stand up. Right. I am reminded of the quote, all that is required for evil to triumph in this world is for the few good men in it to do stand by and do nothing. And, you know, going back to the Russia topic, I think you and I are in agreement that. Regardless of what the narrative is on either side. What we see is that we're being fed propaganda by both sides, and that we're not going to go along with the narrative because we see certain things that we can call bullshit on both sides. And the majority of people are just going with whichever side and narrative that supports their theme and their mindset. And the majority of people are just walking that line. And that's not a good place to be, at least for me.

Gene:

No, no. And I, I have said ever since. The Ukraine thing started that this is going to be a master class and propaganda for everybody that actually wants to pay attention and deconstruct what's going on. Because the propaganda coming out of Ukraine. Which I think is produced mostly in the west, not Is amazingly good. I mean, it is probably some of the best propaganda that's ever been created. And you, you can't help, but to. Just to see how beautifully done it is even though. The reality is quite different. The reality is we were talking about Ukraine and it is kind of a. A a mafia run country. But the propaganda is absolutely top notch.

Ben:

Gerbils would be proud.

Gene:

Absolutely. And given that there also. have gotten the United States to Effectively be promoting. Nazis then yes, gerbils would be very proud. They, the current government, there are more and more. More and more facts coming out about the origins of the Zelenskyi government and the how closely tied it is. To the ultra nationalist Nazi movement Exists in Ukraine. that's most visible through their brigades that they have. But it's not just that. I mean, there. are a lot of people in Ukraine. Who consider the best years of Ukraine were during the Nazi occupation because they got to speak their minds and act freely.

Ben:

And, you know, we should probably go back because there may be some people listening who don't know that the current Ukrainian government It was a revolutionary one, right? They, they overthrew the original government and Ukraine is not that old of a country. And, you know, we had U S politicians being recorded saying, fuck the EU in relation to the Ukraine revolution just a few years back. And

Gene:

Absolutely. Yeah, that's a good point. Is that and that, you know, we can dig into this in future episodes and there's. Lots of available data for people that want to Google, but. Ukraine is literally 30 years the region. That was called Ukraine. Has certainly had the name Ukraine for a long time. And that name in Russian lit literally means borderlands. It is the edge of Russia. That's where the name Ukraine actually comes from. a part of what is right now, Ukraine. The Western side has historically been Polish territory like we're Vivas that that's Poland. That was a Polish city. Eastern Ukraine is 90% Russian speaking, Russian ethnic population. That found themselves all of a sudden living in this newly created country called Ukraine. In 1991. And You know, I mean, they didn't care. They were going to keep doing what they were doing. It seemed like everything was fine. Ukraine was certainly on friendly terms with Russia. So there was no need to flee Ukraine when it was And what happened. And that happened in literally just eight years ago. Is this. A revolution in Ukraine that was paid for. And the fire had flamed by the United States. Which effectively overthrew the government that Ukraine had for the previous 22 years. And created a revolutionary government and through. Huge funding and immediately right there. And then really good propaganda. They were able to not just, I mean, it was, it was probably about 20% of the movement. For this revolution where they the pro Nazi. Ukrainians and the military forces they were there, but. But they were able to stir up enough sentiment in the local population due to things like, you know, the country had only been at that point 20 years away from the Soviet union, they were still very much recovering in terms of. Being able to rebuild the country. There were people that were not living in a particularly good conditions so they could the condition for a revolution That was absolutely there. That's undeniable. But.

Ben:

let's not underestimate the effects of living under the Soviet union and what that had on the population,

Gene:

Oh, yeah.

Ben:

I mean, when you have the massacres that happened and, you know, the, the way the communists handled successful farmers in the Ukraine and so on, you know, there is 100%, a lot of good reason for legitimate anger there. So it was rife for revolution by all, all

Gene:

well, it was misdirected anger because one of the other things that I've pointed out Previously as well. And I'll bring up again here is that people think of Russia as being synonymous with the Soviet union, simply because the capitalists there. But the reality is if you look at the list of Russian leaders or sorry, of Soviet leaders. The. The people that actually controlled the Soviet union with the headquarters in Russia, in Moscow. Um, Just about all of them with minor exceptions. were coming from Southern Russia or the Euro mountains. So these were not. Really. City Russian people that were, that were running the Soviet union. Stalin was from Georgia. You know, deepen Georgia. He was the one that, well, actually, um, let's start with London. Lennon was from near the Euro. And spent a lot of time in Poland and he also lived in Ukraine for a while, but he, um, or in that region during, during the Pre revolutionary years. But he Created the. Original territory that would eventually now become the borders of Ukraine. As a way to retain the far out. Regions of what was the Russian empire? And doing what his plan was is. That people that are that far away from Moscow may rebel once more and want their independence. Because you know, they were at first afraid of the the tar. and If they wanted independence, but now. With the, the new revolutionary government in the Soviet union. They might have a more opportunity to do so. And so his plan was well. Okay. We're going to create essentially. a territories are kind of like states that the America has or a Canadian territories that they have where we're going to have communist representation from each of those regions. Each of those states. Coming to Moscow to represent the people in those states. And therefore be more inclusive. And then all of all of those, including Russia we'll get through, like to the leader of the Supreme. Soviet is. Um, So it there he did that. Stalin was the one that I think is most associated with. Punishing Ukraine. Um, but that's also. A bit of a misnomer because when you had the, the whole, the more in Ukraine. Which just means starving death. In, a. In Russian. Yeah.

Ben:

that it was a horrible thing or

Gene:

Well, of course it's a horrible thing, but I'm just saying that Americans just think of these as like, you know, names like a last name or something. These are actual words with meetings. It's just.

Ben:

Yeah. Well Holocaust, same thing, right.

Gene:

Actually is it. what is the root of Holocaust?

Ben:

You're going to make me

Gene:

Well, you brought it up,

Ben:

we will continue

Gene:

Okay. All right. Anyway. Yeah, go on and Google it while we're talking. And then Cruz Shaw, who was born on technically on the Russian side of the border, but literally right next to you. What is now Ukraine. He was the guy that gave Crimea to Ukraine or. Or moved. The territory that creamy is on into the territory of Ukraine. What does he care? He doesn't care. It's all part of the Soviet He's running the Soviet union, not some districts within the Soviet union. So probably to do some political favor gesture to get something else he wanted. He shifted the border of Crimea. Into Ukraine. And. You know, like my family's had people in Crimea for literally over 500 years. And that is not a That that was never been. Ukraine until it was handed over to Ukraine. So anybody thinking, well, though, they need to give Crimea back. They did give Crimea back to Russia.

Ben:

Well, I mean this, the same thing in Iraq and other states that were just drawn by politicians online, you have right. you have, and by the way, I was bright, um, Holocaust the etymology goes back to Latin and Greek roots and it's a holy Bert thing, meaning a sacrificial offerings, things like that. So plus one for my Latin background and remembering that.

Gene:

Minus one for your memory though.

Ben:

Yeah. it happens. Um, but you know, th th that goes back to lines drawn on a map by politicians, whether it was Soviet or British, or, you know, any, any of this, you know, one of the things people have to understand, and I think Americans don't have a good understanding of this is what race really means in the rest of the world and throughout history, because in America, you know, w races are white, Hispanic, black, Asian, right. That, that, that that's about it. Um, well, realistically, for the majority of history into the rest of the world, your nationality is your race, right. People in the U S I hear joking going, oh, Hitler wasn't even German. He was Austrian. No, he was ethnically German. Right. And there, there were things there that if you don't understand that you miss so much of the actual cause and meaning of the history of the 20th. And right now in Ukraine when you see what's going on on the Eastern border, it is ethnic genocide in many ways.

Gene:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think it, it certainly qualifies as much as anything else. It's probably a less successful genocide simply because Russia has been arming. The the original and Ukrainian side against the revolutionaries that took over eight years ago. And so there have been the the Russian estimates are about 14,000. Russian skilled. Ethnic Russians in Donbass. I think the Ukrainian estimates are actually 8,000. That that have been killed, but somewhere in there is reality. And the reality is the, the revolutionaries and specifically the Nazi regiments, which are right now completely surrounded. Just outside of Donbass. By the, the Russian. Peacekeeper forces They're The, um, They've been shelling. And. Doing everything that they can to. Get rid of those people from inside this border that was drawn on the map. Of what you create is for eight years. And, and part of that, part of that Ukrainian ultra nationalism, which was absolutely involved in, in organizing the revolution eight years ago with, us help Is this notion that. That only Ukrainian, pure blooded people. Need to be in Ukraine. And they are, they're. If you look at the history and of that, um, I forget the guy's name, but the guy that was like on all their slogans and t-shirts. Was a Nazi. sympathizer, not just a sympathizer, but a guy who was on the side of the Nazis during world war two. And I think he's actually from leave. But it was, he started this movement of reading Ukraine. Of Russians and poles and Jews and gypsies and every other kind of undesirable people out there. So that Ukraine along with Germany for the Germans Ukraine could be for the Ukrainians

Ben:

Yeah. and I th I think that we can all agree that any time any group of people decide to be ethnic purists or idealist purist, anytime you become a purist, whether it's ideologically or ethnically or insert mean here, that is when you get into really super dangerous, you're going to kill a lot of people territory, whether it's the Nazis and their ethnic purity. Apparently the Ukrainians and that drive Or the communists in their idealic purity. Um, you end up

Gene:

Or critical race theory.

Ben:

year, the very, oh man, do not give me. So, you know, it goes back to what I was saying earlier. I'm going to go off on a tangent here and move us away a little bit, because I think we've hit Ukraine enough. But I think this is a good segue. It's those going back to my aunt and those people who were posting about homophobia, anytime someone thinks differently than you and you attack them forward. Instead of having a conversation and debate on the topic, you're an idea log and you're morally in the wrong. And I'll just state that if someone thinks differently than you, you should be able to say, okay, why and seek to understand their points of view, have a conversation with them when you are so offended by something, whether you are or not, you shouldn't be offended. That's okay. It should not cause a visceral reaction where you're attacking someone. And I think that that's the constant state we're in today of everyone is so hyperpolarized and they are not intellectually honest enough to understand that they're causing and that their ideological purity, whether they think they're right wrong, indifferent is going to cause immense pain and suffering. Download.

Gene:

Well, I think it, yeah, it. To me, what it comes down to is. People using the same. The same sort of. Mental. I don't even know how to describe it well, but effectively turning things into religion. Like they go from. Explain to me how this works to Just tell me what I need to believe. And that is happening with the whole global warming thing that has happened. with black lives matter. That is happening with a lot of. A lot of. Movements, I guess, for lack of a better word. To where they may have originated based on some logical desire to demonstrate that they're correct. But very quickly turned into really religions. They they turned into something that requires no proof. You simply thinking that this movement is incorrect. Is proof of the fact that the movement is correct. You can't do that. That's not a. It's not legitimate. And it just, once again, underlines the gullibility and stupidity of people.

Ben:

yeah, in here, here's the thing, no matter how the given movement started and whether or not it is, um, of a noble purpose or not, right. Um, anytime that you allow religion to come into it and I I'm I, you and I disagree on this, but we've talked about it in the past. I'm a Christian. And you

Gene:

Well, I don't disagree that you're a Christian. I agree that you are a Christian. Indeed. We have nothing here.

Ben:

what comes in though, is I am a firm believer in that there should be no such thing as heresy, anytime that you think something is horrific. You're in the wrong because you are not exploring and looking at ideas, the idea may be wrong in the end, but your reaction shouldn't be that of heresy. And you should put your own beliefs on the chopping block and anyone who blindly believes whatever it is without making every logical argument, they can against it. To me, you're nothing but an idea log who's blindly believing something. And that, that is problematic in and of itself. Um, but the.

Gene:

Yeah, well, and that's a minority opinion, unfortunately. Amongst people quite often that believe in things and it doesn't have to be religion, but it's effectively religion. It's it's people that go beyond needing to understand why something has. And no longer require proof of it. They're just going to follow somebody that they admire or think. Knows all the answers and they don't have to check for themselves. I think a lot of people were treating Fowchee that way for quite a while. Thankfully. Most of them have stopped now. And, oh, we did it five years ago. I haven't heard a peep out of him, the guy for a while.

Ben:

You know? Yeah.

Gene:

And remember he is science.

Ben:

Yes. And sadly I was dismayed to see that the TSA renewed the, a mask mandate. I was hoping to be able to fly soon, but I guess that's not in the cards. Um, you know, one things that. Push people on just from an ideological standpoint and philosophy. Um, and this is gonna sound weird coming from me for, to you probably, and to anyone who knows my overall politics and ideals, but self-love is extremely important. And when I say self-love, I don't mean, I don't mean the millennial. I got a trophy I'm self-important sort of self-love. I mean, the

Gene:

masturbation clearly. is what you're talking about, right.

Ben:

yes, Jean. Yes, yes. Be sure and use that flashlight. Um, no, um,

Gene:

flashlights on a regular basis.

Ben:

yes, you don't want the, the mold. Um, now what I mean is you have to forgive yourself, right? CS Lewis had a great line of, he never understood, and I'm going to paraphrase here because I don't want to quote, but he never understood love the sinner, hate the sin. And until he realized he had been doing that all his life with himself, it's important to have self value because there's no one in the world like you, right. There's no one in history, you will never be recreated. And that goes into the fundamental values of

Gene:

with you, but okay.

Ben:

Well, it doesn't matter. The clone doesn't have the shared experience. So the fundamental idea of the west is that the individual has value and the sovereignty of the individual. And you know, when we talk about black lives matter or any of the current regimes, they're all of distractions, right? So you have the idea of intersectionality creating this more and more complex matrix of You know, reasons that you are oppressed well, the right level of analysis is not any group. The right level of analysis is always the individual,

Gene:

Yeah, no, I, I totally, I don't see any conflict with anything else you said with that. And that makes total sense to me. And it's something that you can, I think, arrive at. Either through religion. Or through philosophy and it's it doesn't

Ben:

or you can validate with.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But it's something that. I think a lot of people have a very. In the west, let's say I'm not going to generalize for the whole world, but in the west, a lot of people have a very diluted sense of self because of the current culture. Of. advertising and messaging that exists. I don't know. a good. Word. To really clump it all together, but you're, you're constantly being bombarded with so much useless information. That you start to not just believe it, but you start to see yourself as merely the, sum of the information you consume. and that as an individual.

Ben:

Well, and that's the thing is you have people. So having value in yourself is different than having value to society and others. And that, that I think is a distinction and people have this illusionary state where. They overvalue themselves to themselves and think everyone else should have that same opinion of them, even though they have produced nothing or done anything. And I think that's a big disconnect psychologically in our society today. And people, you know, this is something I struggle with because I, I am very introspective about my opinions and I don't usually state something as an opinion that I can't back up and firmly believe where others are very emotionally driven. And you know, I'm the kind of guy that I sit down and write in, you know, in, in a word document, what I think, and then I go back and analyze it because I, you know, do I want to make this argument publicly or not? Um,

Gene:

God, not? me. I just say whatever the hell I said.

Ben:

well, generally I do too, but I, I give some introspection beforehand. Um, Yeah. And I think that I don't know how to move the needle and I guess that's the, you know, we can bitch about people not understanding and so on, but how do we, how do we change that? How do we drive people to be better? Right.

Gene:

Well, I think there have been a number of things that we've done as a society that seemed to make it easier for society that actually are counter. Effective. I think one of those. Is having a department of education.

Ben:

absolutely,

Gene:

between babysitters. Daycare. Schools. Children grow up. In a village rather than in their families. That's where we are today. What we need is more people actually Homeschooling and spending time with their kids.

Ben:

So I had a coworker of mine. He came in and we were sitting around a conference room and he said, man, we're not paying teachers enough. They're raising our kids. and we're not paying them enough. And I just looked at him and said, man, if that's your attitude,

Gene:

Um,

Ben:

I feel sorry for you and your kids. Right. But unfortunately that is the majority opinion.

Gene:

Yeah, it is. It is. But. But this is something that is one of the reasons that we're having a downfall of America right now, is that. People. Have gotten used to. Doing things which are actually bad for them bad for the next generation. And it continues on down the line.

Ben:

Well, the public education and you know, this, this is the problem I have with it. Public education was not designed to educate people or to generate deep thinkers or philosophers. Public education was founded by oligarchs with the. Purpose of creating a better factory worker and that's it. Um, you know, it, our education system is very messed up and, um, I, I, I am very thankful for my parents because I, I did attend public school for a very brief time, but the rest of it, I was homeschooled

Gene:

Yeah. and. therefore you went to college at 16.

Ben:

that's part of it. Yes. Um, you know, now I, I guarantee you given who I am and my own self love and self evaluation, I probably would have done great in public school too. It, it, it's not it's not one of those things that is some kids are going to do well, no matter what environment they are in, some kids will do better in one environment or another. There are people who probably shouldn't homeschool, but the fact of the matter is public schools. I am just going to go back to morality here. In my view, public school is a moral and the reason why is I have to pay for it. I'm not going to send my kids to public school. I don't want to, why should I pay for your child's education? Why should I pay for your babysitter? Um, that to me is a problem. Now, if a community wants to come together and locally do something, that's a different, that's a different whole, entirely different thing. But the department of education has, if you look at any measurement of the department of education, you look why it was founded. It has wholly failed in its stated goals and mission,

Gene:

Well that's because it goes and mission had nothing to do with the real reason, as you mentioned, which was simply training in the replacement workforce to be better and cheaper.

Ben:

right? But public education predate. I mean the education department was founded in what the seventies, um, you know, from a federal standpoint, we had public education before that.

Gene:

but on a state level though, right?

Ben:

Yes. And I think that's a drastic difference, but I, I go back to the old one room, school houses, right. And a

Gene:

in the Prairie. Yup.

Ben:

Yeah. A community coming together and say, we want to hire a teacher to educate our children is a very different thing because you have direct parental involvement. You have them choosing what is being taught, everything else. Um, and I think parents should choose what is taught. And when now should parents that now with that comes responsibility, um, should you shelter and guide your kids to only believe what you believe? Well, if you do that, then you're doing your children a disservice, Right. Um, I, on my shelf, I, like I said already, I'm a Christian, but I have a copy of the Koran on my shelf. I have other philosophies and books and I read, um, and I challenge them. You know, I

Gene:

Yeah. And I'm rereading DAS Kapital right now.

Ben:

Exactly. Even though I think you're an anticommunist. Right.

Gene:

God. I absolutely.

Ben:

So if you cannot challenge, and I guess parents don't be so afraid to teach your children something that is in contradiction to what you believe, because if what you believe is right, it will stand up.

Gene:

Yeah, absolutely. And how did you know. your children will be. Able to deduce that what you believe in is right. Unless you're exposing them to things that you may not believe yourself. Because if you wait and don't do that and they go off to college or they just go move on with their lives and spending time with people, you have no control over. They may do a much better job of showing them that what you believe then was actually wrong. And then that'll be the first time that your kids are exposed to it and think, oh my God, I've been repressed. I've been kept away from this true knowledge by my parents. I hate

Ben:

Yeah. And, you know, I, I, like I said to my parents, I was homeschooled and I, we were part of a homeschooling co-op for a long time. And there were two groups of people in that they were the people who were taking a very traditionally liberal education, you know, a classical education approach. And there were people taking a very dogmatic. Um, yeah, I want to say, I don't want to say Christian education, but, um, they, they were the people who were, they didn't want their kids in public schools because of their religious beliefs and were terrified of what that represented. And then there were people who were going through a classical education of. Philosophy and you know, know, learn Greek Latin, so on. And they were just two different schools. And when we got to college, there were rapid divergence, Right, There were people who went absolutely wild and went down one rabbit hole, which, Hey, I definitely went wild when I went to college. There's no doubt there, but you know, my philosophy didn't change because it was rooted in, you know, a lot of good foundation with, you know, communism was not something new to me. Um, you know, socialism was not something new to me. Atheism was not something new to me. Right. And the people who, who went to college and it was totally new, you know, what is this? And exposed to those ideas. That for the first time, when they're experimenting with lots of other things in their life, it's just a dangerous.

Gene:

Yeah. And I think that's maybe part of the reason why. You know, the, the last couple of generations here have been living in home until they're 30 years old. Is that The parents kind of like it because it keeps the kids close by and doesn't like get involved in anything that's too radical and the kids like it because they don't have to grow up.

Ben:

And, you know, that's the danger of the of some parents is they want to protect their kids from everything. And for me, I, I know I cannot protect my kids from the world. So what I want to do is make them as strong as I can so that they can go out and face the

Gene:

Exactly. You want to empower them? Not protect them?

Ben:

You can't, you, you, you eventually will pass. So at some point in time, barring your children dying before you, they are going to be without you. So, you know, you, what you have to do is make them as strong as you possibly can in whatever they're going to believe. Cause they're going to believe whatever they're going to believe. You know, um, you have to make them. as strong as you can so that they can stand up to the world and say, no. Right? I think that that should be the goal of every parent is get your child to be as well, socialized as possible and agreeable as possible in many ways. But when the world is wrong, to be strong enough to say.

Gene:

Yeah, no, that's, that's a very good way of looking at it. It'd be great if More parents did that. But I think a lot of them are just like they. They don't even really have time for their kids. They, they don't want their kids. to have to deal with anything adverse in a lot of ways? Not because they're even so much afraid for the kids because they don't want to have to deal with the consequences of their kid, dealing with something

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

I mean, there's plenty of self love going on in the boomer generation. Let me tell you that.

Ben:

Okay. G we didn't need to hear about your daily habits.

Gene:

Huh? Huh.

Ben:

Um,

Gene:

Daily. I mean hourly.

Ben:

don't go blind.

Gene:

Hey, If I haven't gotten blind yet, man, ain't happening.

Ben:

I hear that, um, you know, the, you know, it goes back to the online bullying. It goes back to, you know, you, you hurt me. Um,

Gene:

Oh, my God, the volleying thing. So retirement. I mean, it's just like, I just don't understand, like that term shouldn't exist first of all. But if it does, it shows how it shouldn't exist based on online things. And bullying is getting punched in the balls when you're a little kid. Cause there's a bigger dude on the bus and he thinks it's funny. That's bullshit.

Ben:

Yeah. I mean, you know, physical violence. Absolutely.

Gene:

like disproportional physical violence,

Ben:

oh yeah. I, I mean, I, yeah, I, I'm an older millennial and I think that there's a big generational gap because. I think the gen X-ers definitely, most of them got in fist fights and, you know, had that experience. I th I have been, but when I look at the younger millennials, they've never engaged in a physical altercation, and I think that's a drastic difference. And I think it's part of how you view violence, right? Um, yeah. I don't know. I don't know how coddle the generation can get before society just doesn't function anymore, but I guess we're going to find out,

Gene:

Well, we kind of know by watching the difference between Russian ads to join the military and American ads to during The middle.

Ben:

Yes, the inclusiveness.

Gene:

I mean, that was like that couldn't have been a better hit piece against the U S. Armed services. If they tried and they didn't realize that that's what they were doing when they created those ads. And I'm assuming everybody knows what I'm talking about. It's basically a video. That somebody put together and by put together, I mean, literally just took two different ads and then spliced them. There's no real editing done, but one of them is this little cartoon thing of a little girl. With two mommies growing up. And I can't remember why she wanted to go in the military, but I guess it was to make her two mommy's proud because oh that's right. She grew up fighting for the things that she believed in, which were lesbian rights. Apparently. And and so now she wanted to fight for her It's a weird premise to sell right off the get go. then you have the the Russian army ad, which is all about. You know, fighting being a bad-ass and wearing cool clothes and shooting big guns. I was like, Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Ben:

Yeah. Part of what I think we should also explain is I guess we're going to circle back to the Ukraine, but, um, a lot of people are talking about the Russia is using conscripts to fight in Ukraine while technically true. Um it's and you can probably explain this better, but I equate it to countries like Turkey, Israel, and others where, you know, military service is just part of it. Um, you don't get out of it. Everybody has a turn, that sort of thing, which I don't believe in because I think that any time I, I, I think that a conscription is a moral, um, on any basis, especially the way America does it to go fight a war. Right. Um, if you're involved in a war and you can't get volunteers, you probably shouldn't be involved in that war as my opinion, but Yeah.

Gene:

Yeah, well, this, the reason that that kind of became a, um, A little kerfuffle for Putin, right? It's that. He kind of said that there were no conscripts and then apparently there are conscripts. Um, the only reason that's a thing is because Russia ended. Compulsory military service two years ago. So they used to have for many, many years where everybody At 18, went into the armed services. Just like most countries. Do I think what certainly like countries, you mentioned. But they just get rid of it and it just got reactivated recently. So I think that's, that's the issue, but I can also explain why there are conscripts in there and it's not just conscripts. It's also the oldest military equipment that Russia had. Because Russia, unlike certain other countries, Does. Think ahead in military strategy. So after evaluating what would be required. To remove the revolutionary government from UK, And provide peacekeeping efforts. They determined that it wasn't much. Like it wouldn't take much. But the consequence of doing that may be. Retaliatory strikes from other nations. And so what Russia did, and this is, you know, I mean, that's kind of publicly available. It's no big secret. Is they, they took their oldest equipment tanks from the eighties, nineties. Personnel carriers. And they took their. 18 19 20 year old conscripts, not just them, obviously. I mean, the, the officers are older. And there's some, some um, units in there that obviously are a lot more. You know, they're professional military. But they certainly also took a lot of these. Youngsters that are just going through military service. And then send them. To occupy Ukraine. So the vast majority of the Russian. Several hundred thousand. Some people say a million. I don't think it's that much, but. of their hundreds of thousands of professional military. Are in Russia. On defensive posture. Against attacks from NATO. So the first thing you need to worry about is protecting the motherland. The second thing is the occupation.

Ben:

yeah. And the thing I would say there is people who think that Russia is getting its ass kicked or the Ukrainians are bravely holding on. That's just not reality. Um, you know, by arming them by doing what we're doing, if anything, you know, it's causing more issues. But, um, you know, th they are not. I don't know how to say this without just totally getting smoked and destroyed, but I will you know, th they are losing, um, people who think, oh, the Russian convoy was stopped. And so on to me, it looks like Russia is playing with kid gloves, trying to go about this in the softest possible way, which is allowing propaganda to go the other way. And maybe I'm wrong.

Gene:

No, I think you're absolutely right. And like I said, this is not a war. From any traditional war. Perspective. This is an occupation force that was brought in. To get rid of the, the revolutionaries that occupied the Capitol and have been. You know, Trying to kill off. The. The people that didn't go along with the revolution. Um, so it is. It is by no means.

Ben:

revolution?

Gene:

Well, w you mean like normally what happens after a revolution or what.

Ben:

Yeah. I mean, I E look at the French revolution, look at the communist revolution and that's what most people in America don't really realize is the American revolution is very unique in history. It is not.

Gene:

No well, but we did also have what, like 5,000 miles of ocean between us and England. That kind of helps.

Ben:

Well, and it, it wasn't a revolution inside a preexisting country, right? It was a, it was revolution away from the center of government. Right.

Gene:

It Yeah, exactly. It's it's really. Yeah.

Ben:

And just to tie something in real quick, for people who say that the south couldn't legally succeed. Fuck you. This country is founded in succession. I E. The declaration of independence. Thanks. That's all.

Gene:

Yeah. Th. This idea of the legality of military action is just crazy to me. It's like, what do you mean. it's Illegal to succeed. That's crazy. Even or like people saying, well, Texas could never actually use the seed from the union. It's like, yeah, you want to, you want to watch it happen? We have more guns in Texas than all the surrounding states combined.

Ben:

Well, and not only that, but the surrounding states minus New Mexico would likely go with us.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah,

Ben:

You know, I, I can totally see Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana saying, you know what, not a bad idea,

Gene:

Maybe a little Colorado sliver of. Colorado all the way up to Wyoming would be good.

Ben:

reclaimed the tire or toy man, you know, it, you know, part of Louisiana people don't realize this, but south of like 10 and Louisiana is not part of the United States, right. It is a different set of people. And I'm very much more in line with a majority of Texas. The problem is we have so many people moving in and the population centers are growing so much. Um, and you know, have you ever read empire by Orson Scott?

Gene:

No, but I think I own it. It's on my. TBD list.

Ben:

So, Orson Scott card wrote Ender's game. Right? Great author. He also wrote an empire and it's a two-volume series. And he postulated in that book, which is a great book for anyone who wants a good read, but he postulated that America would have another civil war when it entered it empire phase. And that the division would not be north and south, but it would be rural versus urban.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

I

Gene:

Tim, Paul's been talking about that for like two years though.

Ben:

Yeah, well, Orson Scott card wrote this book in the nineties slash early two

Gene:

Yeah, yeah, no, what I mean is that like, I'm sure Tim hasn't read that book and it's been a topic, so it's definitely happening.

Ben:

oh, absolutely. And you know, so for instance, my mindset. I, I I've lived in cities and so on, but I'm, I'm a country, boy, man. I grew up out in the middle of nowhere. And I think the mindsets of people who versus who grew up in a city or a suburb versus out in the stakes are just drastically different. And even where we have some commonality and we can't, again, the Right. level of analysis is the individual, but you, you have this, the diff the divide is the mindset. And the divide is the people who want a nanny state, and the people who want to be left the hell up.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I totally agree with you. I know for my part, I. I did both. Like I lived in the city. But I spent every summer in the country. With With no running water. And no plumbing. So that, that, that was my childhood is that they were two completely different worlds. But man, you know, getting to spend all day. Running around playing with, goats and other farm animals. And. Going off into the woods where the, actually there were some dangers in the woods, there wasn't animals, it was German minds. But but I'm a little older than some of you guys.

Ben:

well for me, you know, growing up, um, you know, we, we lived out and just going for hikes and going out in the woods, um, There was always dangers right from in Texas. And you know, the people may not know this,

Gene:

the coyotes.

Ben:

snakes growing up around the coast. Man. I could walk up and down the slew and empty a box of 22 and shooting another number of snakes all day, you know, copperheads water

Gene:

to, cover my snakes yours. while you say that.

Ben:

Yes.

Gene:

That's a joke his snakes don't have

Ben:

Yeah, I know I got ya. But anyway they were dangerous and you know, um, again, growing up with parents that let a kid go do that. Versus, you know, you can't walk to the park alone because someone might grab you. Right. And those fears in the city, it's just an entirely different mindset. When you grew up in the country and your parents allow you to go do things, you learn to be free, right. You're free from them. You're walking out into the ether, you're gone. And that's something that kids today don't get. You know, I didn't have a cell phone growing up, so I wasn't tied. And I left the house. I went to go do something. My parents had No. fricking clue where I was for hours and hours. On end. Now you have parents installing applications on their kid's cell phone, literally where they can track them. Um, my step kids.

Gene:

and listen.

Ben:

Yes, my, well, my step-kids so they have they're older they're teenagers and they have, they, they share location, their location with each other. I can't imagine doing

Gene:

Nope.

Ben:

Why would I want my sister to know where the hell I am that.

Gene:

No, that's, that's absolutely true. I would agree with you and not having something to talk, to connect back with like a phone, not having a GPS. So if you get lost, you're lost. You have to stop at a gas station, ask for directions or something. The other thing I was thinking of when you mentioned out in the country. Cause that was definitely the case in my for me. is you learn how to use tools. And you learn how to adapt and how to. Create tools out of something that wasn't a tool like rocks and pieces of wood.

Ben:

Yeah. And you can't just run to the store to go get something.

Gene:

Yeah. Cause a. It either doesn't exist or the store is 15 miles away.

Ben:

Yep.

Gene:

So all of those experiences help to mature You in. Human being. Something that. Used to be the case for everyone, but we've moved quite a ways away from in the modern society. Where skills that our ancestors had for a very, very long time. are no longer skills that a lot of the current generations have.

Ben:

Well in the current generation doesn't have chores. Right? So when I was growing up, I had to go take care of something animals. Right. And,

Gene:

Your milk, the goats.

Ben:

we had chickens and I had to go take care of the chickens. I hated those chickens. Well, I get married and we buy a place out in the country. And, um, what I do, I immediately get a chicken coop, right. Because it, as an adult looking back, I have a totally different opinion on it. But when I was a kid, I couldn't stand it. It was good for me in a lots and lots of ways. And I think that we coddle our children. And especially as, you know, you go up the socioeconomic ladder, um, you know, rich kids are just spoiled and that mean has been there for a long time. The problem is when you look at America compared to the rest of the world, even our poorest are extremely wealthy

Gene:

Yeah, driving cars, talking on cell phones.

Ben:

and we are very coddled and spoiled.

Gene:

Yeah, no, I completely agree. I think that there is a big downside from that being the case. And I'll tell you as a kid, one of my. Sort of learning experiences. That was absolutely horrible at the time. Was. um, when my, my favorite goose was served for dinner I, you know, I, it never occurred to me that it's not a pet that it's like, we're actually growing food because as a kid, you know, time moves so damn slow. That it seems like the goose has been with you forever. It's like, no, it's only, it's less than a year old, but you know, it's being, it's being fed in order to feed the people.

Ben:

Yeah. I mean, we, we had cows and stuff and you know, I remember calves and, you know, go a cow when, you know, it's a calf is a very cute

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

and grows up into something very ugly, but very tasty. And, you know, it's just, it's part of life.

Gene:

Yeah, well, I mean, they do taste really well in the, and so, but I don't think they're that ugly. I. I actually seen some cute cows. There's this they called Scottish something or other. I don't know if you've seen them, but they're like furry cows. They're actually really cute.

Ben:

I guess, man, I.

Gene:

I'll send you a picture.

Ben:

Again, I'm terrified when ever you send me a picture of that. You know, Jean, you and I are going to have to start a disagreeing more. Um, my grandfather used to have a saying when two people agree all the time when I was not needed. So.

Gene:

that's

Ben:

going to have to

Gene:

fair point. I'm sure we can find

Ben:

this is, sir, Jean speaks, I better start disagreeing with you a

Gene:

right. That's right.

Ben:

Otherwise I won't be needed.

Gene:

going to have to start like, you know, playing bad cop here or something.

Ben:

As long as I don't turn into John, we'll be all right.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, I I'm usually the one being accused of, of having the, um, The chase lounger too far away from Mike here.

Ben:

Well, I mean, but you've got the tracksuit, so.

Gene:

I do have the tracksuit. I have multiple tracksuits because they're comfortable. I don't understand what the big deal is like they're comfortable to wear. What would, what are you wearing? Like what are you wearing right now? Probably nothing.

Ben:

I'm sitting here, you know, in the office, you know, and my underwear. It's all good.

Gene:

Yeah, exactly. So underwear tracksuit, I, I think tracksuits actually the better of the two here right now.

Ben:

Well, what. One of the things we're going to have to do is we're going to have to get you out to the range and we're going to have to start looking at some firearms issues together.

Gene:

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, by the way I did pick up the, um, the Tor seven.

Ben:

Oh, yeah. Have you shot it yet?

Gene:

No, have not shot it yet, but I, I, it, it was apparent to me that you were moving too slowly to get one. So I just got one.

Ben:

Well, I'm sorry.

Gene:

See you there. We're disagreeing. All right. Well, not really.

Ben:

But here's the difference? The eye. Go slowly. And I do things in such a way to, you know, reduce paperwork as much as

Gene:

Yeah. no, I get it. You probably had to write it in your journal and then think about it and then think about it again. And then you're going to do it. Me, I just. Blurted it right out there. It's like, yeah, I kinda like this. The more seven I go get one.

Ben:

Jean also does not have a wife or anyone else to negotiate a budget with. So there are things there.

Gene:

Exactly. Um, but it is. I have not shot it yet, but I do like it, it is. It is a very nice form factor something and it's balanced. Well, that's the other thing that I, I realized after playing with it a little bit. Is that they got the balance done pretty well.

Ben:

If you haven't already SGMO has a lot of 3 0 8 and for fairly inexpensive.

Gene:

G emo.

Ben:

Yeah, they're a great little bulk retailer. Um,

Gene:

is sponsored by SGMO. I will hit them up and tell him, tell him we already are doing ads for them.

Ben:

You know now no sponsorship, cause I don't want to get canceled, but I will say that they, they.

Gene:

Okay. I've usually bought a dirt cheap. Cheap. They're cheaper than dirt, dirt,

Ben:

Yeah, no, the. SGM has cheaper.

Gene:

Yeah, really. Okay.

Ben:

And they've got a lot of bulk and surplus stuff. That's good.

Gene:

Well, I'm kind of particular on the MOA, like to use though.

Ben:

Well, so am I, I mean,

Gene:

federal goldmatch is the only one I

Ben:

Ah, Now see I, if I want mass grade ammo, I'm loading it myself. So.

Gene:

Yeah, eight too lazy for that. My dad used to do that, and so I always handled unlimited supply of free ammo. Can I get spoiled by that? But, um, but I've found the best results in groupings with the federal goldmatch.

Ben:

I mean, it all depends on what your goal is. Um, I like to shoot my guns so I will pick up military Sharples, ammo and stuff like that and run through it. But when I'm hunting, when I want to

Gene:

Winchester white boxes. If I just want to plank.

Ben:

Yeah. Um, Again, I go through enough arounds that. I don't want to spend that much. So I'm either reloading. Um, and you. You know, there, there are two types of reloading, right? There's I'm going to mass produce an ammo so I can go shoot cheap at the range. And then there's the, I'm going to be extremely careful in what I'm doing and produce the most consistent ammunition I can so that I'm as consistent down range as possible. So.

Gene:

Now do you have a. You have dies for a whole bunch of different calibers or just do a few of them.

Ben:

I have dyes for every caliber I own.

Gene:

And what caliber is young.

Ben:

Well, that's a, that's a, none of your damn business.

Gene:

Well, I learned to answer the question accurately then. So you got obviously 3 0 8 6 5 5 7. Once they get.

Ben:

Yeah. so I like the, the way the old man on the ranch answered it. I've learned that when I answer that question, people get nervous. Right? That sort of thing. How many guns and how much ammo do you have?

Gene:

Yeah, well, no, I'm actually just trolling to have you make some ammo for me, but I really don't care. How many guns you have? Well, I do care. I am curious though. Um, but more

Ben:

the shopping list

Gene:

from a. playing with them standpoint.

Ben:

Yeah. Well on the shopping list is definitely a new press. That's something I've got to

Gene:

Wait, which one do you have now? Do you have a li or a. What.

Ben:

I do, actually, I will say this, I own a lease single stage and I think for a single stage press, there's no shame in owning a li.

Gene:

That was this first one again. Yeah.

Ben:

Yeah, Lee Lee is fine for a single stage and it's cheap. You can go RCBS you can go anything else. And. And they're fine, but if you're only doing a single stage press. Don't spend your money on the press, spend your money on the powder, spend your money on the dyes, those sorts of things. That's what matters. Um, now when you get into Progressive's or, you know, some of the turntables or anything like that, then. You know that that's a little different. You want to spend some money there. But. You know, It all depends on what you're doing. Like when I'm loading match ammo for. I will say this. I have a 300 Remington ultra mag. That's my, my long range gun. when I'm doing my hand loads for. Sitting down and shooting a thousand yards. Um, Are killing a deer at 750 yards down the pipeline. Um, That is done on a single stage. I do not mass produce those rounds, right. Because I want consistency.

Gene:

Yep.

Ben:

So something to consider.

Gene:

No, that's a definitely good point. Um, so do you have a, a range near you that has a thousand yard? Target.

Ben:

the. Yeah. They're actually right here outside of where I live. Is a members only range with that. And then I've got some property in east Texas that has a pipeline on it. And the straightaway from where my deer stand sits. To right before it makes us. You know, 45 degree turn. Is right at 750 yards. So.

Gene:

Yeah. no, that's nice. I I've generally, when I went to the deer hunting, I. I've generally refrained from taking shots over about three 50.

Ben:

Well, and in Texas, most of your shots are sub a hundred, right? You're sitting at a feeder doing that, but, um, I lived in north central Idaho for a few years and you know, up there it's totally different hunting. You're you're stalking. You're not sitting in the stand. And you may be shooting across the canyon. Right. And so that's, that's why I choose the calibers. I've chosen.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I've only Shant. Dear on relatively flat areas. And most of it's been, it was in Minnesota, so there's a little bit of Hills, but not much. But I've never had the experience of like, you know, shooting over canyons to the hill on the opposite side of the valley or something like I've seen that stuff on hunting shows and that looks really fun, but. Never actually practiced or had that experience where you have to take into account, not just the distance. Not just the windage, but also the angle of the shot.

Ben:

Well, and then when the deer and or elk rolls to the bottom of the canyon,

Gene:

that might be funny.

Ben:

And then you have to go in quarter it and backpack it out. And by the time you get there to get the last bid, a bear has claimed it, then that. There there's some I'll tell you some stories sometime there, gene.

Gene:

All right. Well, we'll have plenty to talk about for future episodes. That's for sure.

Ben:

Indeed.

Gene:

Well, I hopefully you've enjoyed this first one and hopefully you as the co-host, I've enjoyed this first one as well.

Ben:

Yeah. I have. It's a, we, you and I always talk and have a, some interesting conversation. So I think sharing some of those conversations will be good. You know, I hopefully we've caused some people to think and question a few things and. Um, You know, it hasn't been too boring.

Gene:

Yeah, well, I think people will enjoy this. And I think I've had like six or seven podcasts over the years, but every single one of them starts exactly the same way, which is me saying to a person that I'm speaking on the phone with for an hour. You know, this could really be a podcast. Like, we're just talking to each other, but it might be fun to record this and see what people think. And generally people seem to like that type of conversation. So I'm not big on the prepping for podcasts. Like a lot of other shows on. Laying out a bunch of stories to talk about or topics cover. I just think that organically, we're going to have something funny anyway. So why did the work.

Ben:

Well, and I think that you and I are the type of people that and I think this should kind of be a rule. You know, if we come and just talk about what's on our mind, whatever it is. A, it will be therapeutic for us. And then B I think I think it'll be pretty interesting generally.

Gene:

Exactly. And it might get some other people having conversations. And that's ultimately the goal that I'd like to think we're helping people have as well as talk about the topics that we're talking about. I'm sure. Some of them have very different opinions about these topics. But don't, don't just sit there in your house. Like it's still COVID time COVID has done. Now we're in war season, go off and have some fun and talk to people before we all watched the big nukes drop. And with that we can wrap up.

Ben:

Absolutely.

Gene:

All right. Thanks for listening guys.